OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[MizStery]

When people think of planned out, they think of a professional hit man. Every day people plan ways to kill their spouse. They could be a fine upstanding citizen who never killed a person in their life but still intelligent enough and ruthless enough to live with a person day and night and be meticulously planning to murder them all along. Some of them get away with it. Others get away with it for years before they are finally caught. You just have to know the people well enough to know where they will be and what they will be doing at any given time.

There has been many, many people killed because they brought the wrong person into their lives and when that relationship breaks up, if there are children involved, that relationship turns deadly. Sometimes whole families get wrapped up in the bitterness and the hatred consumes their lives. Especially if something like child abuse is suspected or imagined.

JW knew the R's. He was with HR for two or three years. He knew their habits. Their homes. He even knew the new house that DR lived in because he put together a crib there a couple of days before. He also knew of Clarence R's prior criminal history. He probably even knew who the victim was and what the circumstances were surrounding it. Could he or AW have imagined something like that was happening to SW? Yes.

I believe that AW is a very intelligent person. So far she has done most of the talking for the family. She was in the military for some time. We don't know specifically what her job was in the military but we do know that a military life is very disciplined and detail oriented. They are combat trained and taught to react even under the most severe pressure.

Do I think this was a crime of hatred? Yes. Do I think it was organized and well planned? Yes. Do I think it was done by a professional hit man? No. I think it was carried out by someone with enough hatred and someone who was ruthless, well organized, and detail oriented who was very capable of sitting around their house and planning this out for a year.

JMO

I enjoy reading Websleuths because of the unique voice each poster brings to the thread. I have left threads because every post was a cookie cutter of the one before i.e. group think.

Also there are so many thoughtful answers to each theory & there is no one who uses their critical thinking skills better than Betty P.

So many posters have stayed with this tragedy since day 1. I think it is awesome you never waver in your quest to find justice for the Rhoden Family,

In conclusion I agree with several of you that indeed there has been a GJ impaneled. Some of the key individuals have moved and retained a lawyer. If they have received subpoenas we would never know. We can only hope GJ will recommend an indictment of the perps. It appears to me at least Prosecutor Junk and Sherriff Reader are at least for the present playing a cat and mouse game. Time will tell.

Oh,I took a devient behavior class many years ago. I do not remember everything but the one thing the professor drilled down on is most murders are not by done by a stranger rather most victims know their killer.

:cow:

 

[?mysterian?]

Betty P. wasn't the Adams Co Health Solutions LLC made in 2009? And there is no info if it was actually in use as a medical company. Wasn't that around the time that a lot of pill mill were being discovered in Ohio? And closed down, people sent to prison and some a Dr Lake? even killed himself?

Dr. Lake was investigated for running a pill mill and tax evasion and pled guilty https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio...ical-center-drug-premises-and-evading-more--0

Dr. Lake's death was being investigated as a homicide http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2017/06/former-ou-trustee-kevin-lake-shooting

 

[Betty P]

When people think of planned out, they think of a professional hit man. Every day people plan ways to kill their spouse. They could be a fine upstanding citizen who never killed a person in their life but still intelligent enough and ruthless enough to live with a person day and night and be meticulously planning to murder them all along. Some of them get away with it. Others get away with it for years before they are finally caught. You just have to know the people well enough to know where they will be and what they will be doing at any given time.

There has been many, many people killed because they brought the wrong person into their lives and when that relationship breaks up, if there are children involved, that relationship turns deadly. Sometimes whole families get wrapped up in the bitterness and the hatred consumes their lives. Especially if something like child abuse is suspected or imagined.

JW knew the R's. He was with HR for two or three years. He knew their habits. Their homes. He even knew the new house that DR lived in because he put together a crib there a couple of days before. He also knew of Clarence R's prior criminal history. He probably even knew who the victim was and what the circumstances were surrounding it. Could he or AW have imagined something like that was happening to SW? Yes.

I believe that AW is a very intelligent person. So far she has done most of the talking for the family. She was in the military for some time. We don't know specifically what her job was in the military but we do know that a military life is very disciplined and detail oriented. They are combat trained and taught to react even under the most severe pressure.

Do I think this was a crime of hatred? Yes. Do I think it was organized and well planned? Yes. Do I think it was done by a professional hit man? No. I think it was carried out by someone with enough hatred and someone who was ruthless, well organized, and detail oriented who was very capable of sitting around their house and planning this out for a year.

JMO

Yes, all possible, but more than one person did the killing. That's been established by LE and discussed in the news media and elsewhere. Multiple weapons, multiple victims in each home, most killed in their sleep, multiple crime scenes & clean up, relatively short time frame = multiple killers. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Dr. Lake was investigated for running a pill mill and tax evasion and pled guilty https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio...ical-center-drug-premises-and-evading-more--0

Dr. Lake's death was being investigated as a homicide http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2017/06/former-ou-trustee-kevin-lake-shooting

We should put this into the Rhoden Massacre Timeline. Time to update it anyway. I'll post it here, you all add the details of what you think should be added, corrections, links, etc.

I'm rushing out the door today, so don't have time for all the formatting, bold, etc. Please type in what you want changed, add links, etc. and I'll post the finished product over in the Media & Timelines Thread.

Thanks!

Betty P



Rhoden Murders Timeline:

2012 – AG DeWine issued press release announcing LE had discovered “a major marijuana grow site” in Pike County with suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During the discovery, 1200 plants were destroyed by investigators and two abandoned campsites were located, which they believe had belonged to Mexican nationals.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306329-Media-amp-Timeline-NO-DISCUSSION-Pike-Co-OH-8-Family-Members-Murdered>


Feb 2016: Box of marijuana discovered at Piketon Post Office, investigation leads to discovery of "shatter" operation

10 days prior to murders: A Facebook threat is made by a teen saying he will "Go up to Union Hill and take them all out"

15 Apr 2016: Hanna R drops off daughter S to stay with her father Jake Wagner

17 Apr 2016: Hanna R gives birth

2 days prior to murders: Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5&p=12509140&posted=1#post12509140>

Thursday, 4/21/2016


8am: Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home

11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNN

Approx 11:20 pm - Dana arrives home



Friday, 4/22/2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, exchanges text messages with Dana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo
2 am: James Manley texted Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden and father of her oldest daughter

Between 1 am and 7 am - the following were murdered

Bodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.
Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)
Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley
Body found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page55>


7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed.
7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not known
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

7:49 am: Bobby Jo calls 911

ibid.


7:53 am: PCSO Dep. Music and Dep. Chandler are dispatched to 4077 Union Hill Road in response to the 7:49 am 911 call from BJM.
Approx 7:55 am: Billy Jo Manley runs next door to trailer of Frankie Rhoden & Hannah Gilley. Door is locked, she hears toddler inside, asks him to open the door. She then discovers the bodies of Frankie & Hannah. She takes the children outside to her car.
Ibid.
7:15 &#8211; 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn&#8217;t go further into Dana&#8217;s home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.
Ibid

8:07 am: Dep. Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Dep. Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."

8:12 am: Dep. Music, Dep. Ball, and Maj. Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page57>

8:07 am &#8211; 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.


8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI (Source CNN -- I will have to fetch a link)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>

12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>


1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report Kenneth's body

1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

1:49 pm &#8211; Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhoden
http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/

Saturday, 4/23/2016

3:41am - LE arrives at Bobby Jo Manley's residence to question her; 5 others also questioned

??: Kenny Rhoden (cousin) calls 911 in Greenup Co, KY stating he is being chased by a green Chrysler.

Sunday, April 24, 2016
Autopsies performed by Hamilton County Medical Examiner in Cincinnati, OH
https://mgtvwcmh.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pike-county-final-autopsies-redacted.pdf
http://nbc4i.com/2016/09/23/attorney-general-releases-autopsies-for-rhoden-family-members/

April 28, 2016 - Funeral for Gary Rhoden, South Shore, KY
April 30, 2016 - Funeral for Hannah Gilley in Ottway, OH
May 3, 2016 - Funeral for Rhoden family - Chris Sr, Dana, Frankie, Hanna, Chris Jr. and Kenneth
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...always-scar-this-town/yRPTKlTHsLqHb2kAg3M2lN/
Thursday, May 12, 2016
Trailers of family members Chris Rhoden Sr, Frankie Rhoden & Kenneth Rhoden were sealed and moved to storage at Hasdell Chemical Co. in Waverly, OH. Dana Rhoden&#8217;s trailer was moved later.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...nty-mobile-homes-moved-crime-scenes/84288652/

May 27, 2016
Death certificates released to news media
http://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/
Times of death:
8:07 am &#8211; Chris Rhoden, Sr, Gary Rhoden
8:11 am &#8211; Frankie Rhoden, Hannah Gilley
8:17 am &#8211; Dana Rhoden, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden, Jr.
1:49 pm &#8211; Kenneth Rhoden

August 2016
Jacob Wagner, father of Hanna Rhoden&#8217;s older daughter, lists his family farm for sale. Location is 260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH

Sometime after murders and before May 2017 raid on Wagner properties, it is determined through testing that JW is not the father of Hanna Rhoden&#8217;s second child.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...-away-scene-rhoden-family-massacre/101600436/

Saturday, April 22, 2017
Pike County LE place a GPS tracking device on truck owned by James Manley, brother of Dana Manley Rhoden. LE claims it was placed there because the truck was related to an aggravated murder case
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/

Friday, April 28, 2017
11:35 am - James Manley finds and removes tracking device and destroys it
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/


About May 5, 2017
Jacob Wagner asks ___ Brown if he can store some trailers on his property. He tells him his farm is sold and he and his brother have found good paying jobs &#8220;up north&#8221; and are moving there. He needs to move out of farm for new owners. JW drops off 3 trailers at the Brown property &#8220;a week before the search&#8221;.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/

May 5 &#8211; May 12, 2017
Sometime after dropping off 3 trailers loaded with furniture and personal possessions, Jacob Wagner and family leave the area. Later posts on FB show photos of them in a location resembling areas in Alaska or Canada.

Friday, May 12, 2017
Abt 11 am - PCSO, BCI, Adams County SO, Ohio Dept of Corrections STAR and other Ohio LE agencies conduct a search at properties related to Jacob Wagner & family.
260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH &#8211; farm formerly owned by Wagner&#8217;s parents, where JW resided with his mother, father, brother, daughter Sophia Rhoden Wagner and daughter of his brother George.
Unlimited Motors, St Hwy 41, Peebles, OH &#8211; Auto repair business and farm of ___ Brown, friend of J Wagner.
Ibid
Saturday, May 13, 2017
LE team raids Flying W Farms. Franklin County Sheriff&#8217;s office assists. Their rep claims their SWAT team accompanied the raid, saying they had an arrest warrant. FCSO later retracts the statement. A neighbor of Flying W Farms who witnessed the vehicle caravan entering and leaving the property is interviewed, claiming there was a SWAT vehicle and an ambulance present.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...elative-charged-evidence-tampering/101747576/

http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2017/05/16/rhoden-investigation-intensifies/101759968/

 

[?mysterian?]

For these reason's and all the other's we have examined, is the reason I feel family involvement in these crimes. Some friends might know some of what was going on in the Rhoden's lives. But to me, only family would know all the many different troubles the Rhoden's were in, personal and outside of the family. Also, my understanding about CRsr and how he came about being in the mj/drug/pill business, is he used to hang with a V***e W***s who was sent to prison on drug charges. He may have learned the business from this person and carried on with it in his own way after his friend was incarcerated. It does seem strange that TR working at BBL was not the one who could be in business with RW. But then again, maybe he didn't have as much background in this type of operation and a business man would want someone who knows what their doing handling these delicate operations. I don't know that much about TR or BR1 to be able to include them in this.I think for some reason that this crime was plotted/planned at BBL where a lot of people live/stay seasonally. It is a gathering place in the community and would be a good place for gossip, and gathering of info for someone who needed information. People always coming and going as it is a resort and that is expected. The "timing" of the crime was kinda perfect because of all the troubles in the Rhoden's live at the time. Look how many theories we have come up with. JMO

The mention of VW reminded me of the "Chilly Loco" investigation, which lasted from 1997 - 2009 IIRC. https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/cincinnati/press-releases/2010/ci021710.htm

 

[?mysterian?]

We should put this into the Rhoden Massacre Timeline. Time to update it anyway. I'll post it here, you all add the details of what you think should be added, corrections, links, etc.I'm rushing out the door today, so don't have time for all the formatting, bold, etc. Please type in what you want changed, add links, etc. and I'll post the finished product over in the Media & Timelines Thread.Thanks!Betty P. Ok, I'll try to post additions in red. Please correct/edit/change as needed. Thanks!Rhoden Murders Timeline:2006 - 2013 Dr. Kevin Lake, owner/manager of Columbus Sothern Medical Center, operates a pill mill per plea agreement https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ohio...ical-center-drug-premises-and-evading-more--02012 – AG DeWine issued press release announcing LE had discovered “a major marijuana grow site” in Pike County with suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During the discovery, 1200 plants were destroyed by investigators and two abandoned campsites were located, which they believe had belonged to Mexican nationals.From Feb 2016: Box of marijuana discovered at Piketon Post Office, investigation leads to discovery of "shatter" operation10 days prior to murders: A Facebook threat is made by a teen saying he will "Go up to Union Hill and take them all out"15 Apr 2016: Hanna R drops off daughter S to stay with her father Jake Wagner17 Apr 2016: Hanna R gives birth2 days prior to murders: Woman sentenced in road rage incident court case involving Chris Jr.From Thursday, 4/21/20168am: Dana arrives at work - Hillcrest Nursing Home11pm: Dana leaves work - Hillcrest Nursing Home - 14 miles away per CNNApprox 11:20 pm - Dana arrives homeFriday, 4/22/20161 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, exchanges text messages with Danahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo2 am: James Manley texted Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden and father of her oldest daughterBetween 1 am and 7 am - the following were murderedBodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel GilleyBody found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)From 7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed. 7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not knownhttp://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/7:49 am: Bobby Jo calls 911ibid.7:53 am: PCSO Dep. Music and Dep. Chandler are dispatched to 4077 Union Hill Road in response to the 7:49 am 911 call from BJM.Approx 7:55 am: Billy Jo Manley runs next door to trailer of Frankie Rhoden & Hannah Gilley. Door is locked, she hears toddler inside, asks him to open the door. She then discovers the bodies of Frankie & Hannah. She takes the children outside to her car.Ibid.7:15 – 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn’t go further into Dana’s home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.Ibid8:07 am: Dep. Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Dep. Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."8:12 am: Dep. Music, Dep. Ball, and Maj. Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.From 8:07 am – 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI (Source CNN -- I will have to fetch a link)http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/From 12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/From 1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report Kenneth's body1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/1:49 pm – Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhodenhttp://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/Saturday, 4/23/20163:41am - LE arrives at Bobby Jo Manley's residence to question her; 5 others also questioned??: Kenny Rhoden (cousin) calls 911 in Greenup Co, KY stating he is being chased by a green Chrysler.Sunday, April 24, 2016Autopsies performed by Hamilton County Medical Examiner in Cincinnati, OHhttps://mgtvwcmh.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pike-county-final-autopsies-redacted.pdfhttp://nbc4i.com/2016/09/23/attorney-general-releases-autopsies-for-rhoden-family-members/April 28, 2016 - Funeral for Gary Rhoden, South Shore, KYApril 30, 2016 - Funeral for Hannah Gilley in Ottway, OHMay 3, 2016 - Funeral for Rhoden family - Chris Sr, Dana, Frankie, Hanna, Chris Jr. and Kennethhttp://www.daytondailynews.com/news...always-scar-this-town/yRPTKlTHsLqHb2kAg3M2lN/Thursday, May 12, 2016Trailers of family members Chris Rhoden Sr, Frankie Rhoden & Kenneth Rhoden were sealed and moved to storage at Hasdell Chemical Co. in Waverly, OH. Dana Rhoden’s trailer was moved later.http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...nty-mobile-homes-moved-crime-scenes/84288652/May 27, 2016Death certificates released to news mediahttp://www.chillicothegazette.com/s...-family-death-certificates-released/85051602/Times of death:8:07 am – Chris Rhoden, Sr, Gary Rhoden8:11 am – Frankie Rhoden, Hannah Gilley8:17 am – Dana Rhoden, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden, Jr.1:49 pm – Kenneth RhodenAugust 2016Jacob Wagner, father of Hanna Rhoden’s older daughter, lists his family farm for sale. Location is 260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OHSometime after murders and before May 2017 raid on Wagner properties, it is determined through testing that JW is not the father of Hanna Rhoden’s second child.http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...-away-scene-rhoden-family-massacre/101600436/Saturday, April 22, 2017Pike County LE place a GPS tracking device on truck owned by James Manley, brother of Dana Manley Rhoden. LE claims it was placed there because the truck was related to an aggravated murder casehttp://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/Friday, April 28, 201711:35 am - James Manley finds and removes tracking device and destroys ithttp://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ng-pike-county-massacre-case-court/101773632/About May 5, 2017Jacob Wagner asks ___ Brown if he can store some trailers on his property. He tells him his farm is sold and he and his brother have found good paying jobs “up north” and are moving there. He needs to move out of farm for new owners. JW drops off 3 trailers at the Brown property “a week before the search”.http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/May 5 – May 12, 2017 Sometime after dropping off 3 trailers loaded with furniture and personal possessions, Jacob Wagner and family leave the area. Later posts on FB show photos of them in a location resembling areas in Alaska or Canada.Friday, May 12, 2017Abt 11 am - PCSO, BCI, Adams County SO, Ohio Dept of Corrections STAR and other Ohio LE agencies conduct a search at properties related to Jacob Wagner & family. 260 Peterson Rd, Peebles, OH – farm formerly owned by Wagner’s parents, where JW resided with his mother, father, brother, daughter Sophia Rhoden Wagner and daughter of his brother George.Unlimited Motors, St Hwy 41, Peebles, OH – Auto repair business and farm of ___ Brown, friend of J Wagner. IbidSaturday, May 13, 2017LE team raids Flying W Farms. Franklin County Sheriff’s office assists. Their rep claims their SWAT team accompanied the raid, saying they had an arrest warrant. FCSO later retracts the statement. A neighbor of Flying W Farms who witnessed the vehicle caravan entering and leaving the property is interviewed, claiming there was a SWAT vehicle and an ambulance present.http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...elative-charged-evidence-tampering/101747576/http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2017/05/16/rhoden-investigation-intensifies/101759968/6/23/17 - Dr. Kevin Lake dies after being shot in his home the day before. He was awaiting sentencing as part of his plea agreement after the investigation into his pill mill operation.http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2017/06/former-ou-trustee-kevin-lake-shooting.

I tried to put additions in red. Please change/edit/correct as needed. Thanks!ETA: Theory/speculation only: It's possible that one/some of the victims may have been under investigation at the time of the murders, or maybe one/some of the victims was going to give evidence in an investigation.It's also possible one/some of the victims knew or knew about pill mill investigations and/or Dr. Lake. I'm amazed at how little information about this case has been released almost 2 years afterward. I continue to hope and pray for justice for the Rhodens and HHG.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, all possible, but more than one person did the killing. That's been established by LE and discussed in the news media and elsewhere. Multiple weapons, multiple victims in each home, most killed in their sleep, multiple crime scenes & clean up, relatively short time frame = multiple killers. JMO

I agree, multiple killers. But I think AW planned it all and AW, JW, BW and maybe the brother of JW carried it out. I think they had the help of AM and maybe JM to track DR's movements.

Everyone was fairly easy to predict except DR. It was a Thursday night during the school year. Fairly certain CR2 would be home in bed, he had to go to school the next morning. It was fairly certain HR would be home in bed, she just had a baby. FR and HHG were a good bet to be home in bed because FR had to work the next day and HHG had a small child to care for. KR too had to work the next day so was probably home in bed. There may have been some doubt about CR1 and GR but still if they knew their habits they could also depend on them being home in bed, especially if they knew they both had to work the next day.

I think that is why the murders were carried out on a week day as opposed to a Friday or Saturday night when CR2 could have been out partying or FR and HHG could have been visiting friends or at the derby races.

The only uncertainty was DR who might work a double shift. That is where AM came in. She admitted texting and talking to DR on FB that night. Then there was that late night text to JW from JM's phone. I believe that text was to let JW know DR was home and would soon be going to bed.

I think that CR1 and GR were killed first before DR even got home. That's why they were dragged into the back bedroom and the front door locked. So if she stopped by and casually looked in a window when they didn't answer the door she wouldn't see anything in the front rooms. The same with FR and HHG. I think by the time they made it to DR's her car was not there so JW contacted AM or JM for info. KR may have been first or right before DR but I think DR's house was last.

I think the W's were more than capable of carrying this crime out. Planning and paying attention to detail doesn't have to mean a professional. Just someone willing to put the time and thought into it. And someone who had enough hatred in their heart for the R's to do it.

JMO

 

[Satchie]

I think that CR1 and GR were killed first before DR even got home. That's why they were dragged into the back bedroom and the front door locked. So if she stopped by and casually looked in a window when they didn't answer the door she wouldn't see anything in the front rooms. The same with FR and HHG. I think by the time they made it to DR's her car was not there so JW contacted AM or JM for info. KR may have been first or right before DR but I think DR's house was last.

RSBM

That a good idea why those doors were locked: so no one, not just DR, could drop by and discover the crimes 'prematurely', while the others weren't yet complete. And yet, so fortunate that BJM would come so early and therefore the children wouldn't be left for too many hours undiscovered.

I think it's possible the young couple could have been murdered first, simply because they apparently weren't woken and yet those in the other trailer were. Whether that might illuminate the motive, I'm not sure.

 

[Betty P]

I agree, multiple killers. But I think AW planned it all and AW, JW, BW and maybe the brother of JW carried it out. I think they had the help of AM and maybe JM to track DR's movements.

Everyone was fairly easy to predict except DR. It was a Thursday night during the school year. Fairly certain CR2 would be home in bed, he had to go to school the next morning. It was fairly certain HR would be home in bed, she just had a baby. FR and HHG were a good bet to be home in bed because FR had to work the next day and HHG had a small child to care for. KR too had to work the next day so was probably home in bed. There may have been some doubt about CR1 and GR but still if they knew their habits they could also depend on them being home in bed, especially if they knew they both had to work the next day.

I think that is why the murders were carried out on a week day as opposed to a Friday or Saturday night when CR2 could have been out partying or FR and HHG could have been visiting friends or at the derby races.

The only uncertainty was DR who might work a double shift. That is where AM came in. She admitted texting and talking to DR on FB that night. Then there was that late night text to JW from JM's phone. I believe that text was to let JW know DR was home and would soon be going to bed.

I think that CR1 and GR were killed first before DR even got home. That's why they were dragged into the back bedroom and the front door locked. So if she stopped by and casually looked in a window when they didn't answer the door she wouldn't see anything in the front rooms. The same with FR and HHG. I think by the time they made it to DR's her car was not there so JW contacted AM or JM for info. KR may have been first or right before DR but I think DR's house was last.

I think the W's were more than capable of carrying this crime out. Planning and paying attention to detail doesn't have to mean a professional. Just someone willing to put the time and thought into it. And someone who had enough hatred in their heart for the R's to do it.

JMO

It's a plausible theory. I've considered it on numerous occasions. But, JMO, if they got information from JM and AM, it must have been under false pretenses. They gave some other excuse for asking those questions. Manleys have always made an issue about the dogs not barking, something that's self-incriminating. LM & DS repeated it publicly despite the risk of looking guilty because they think its important.

The timing is plausible, but if true, the W's had a lot of luck on their side. I've always thought CR1 & GR were killed first and dragged in the back room so no one would see them while the killers finished their work elsewhere.

Here are the reasons I can't completely accept this scenario, yet:

#1 Why hasn't PCSO and BCI arrested them? They may have been able to pull off the killings, but they would have left evidence. PCSO knew there was ill will between the families (custody battle and fight in UHR the week before) and JW was allegedly supposed to be at HR's that night. Yet the W's were never treated as suspects. LE should have sent someone over to the W farm with a search warrant that day to get prints, search for weapons, bloody clothes, test for gun shot residue, etc. There was sufficient cause to get a SW. LE and BCI didn't search or question the W's seriously for weeks if not months.

#2 Why was JW not arrested, not called before the GJ? Why was the family allowed to move to AK?

#3 If the W family alone were the killers, why is the community still living in fear? Why are so many locals afraid to talk to LE or send in tips. W's are in Alaska, they're not a threat to anyone. Most of the local drug crowd has been arrested in the years since, few of them have anything to fear from LE. Who is everyone in the area afraid of and why are they afraid?


#4 Why did BCI insist on gathering and processing all the evidence themselves? Why was there no "professional peer review" on this case and the mountains of evidence it produced? As novice mass murderers, W's would have left a lot of evidence and overlooked a lot of things. Why is all that evidence locked up now? (I think I know the answer to this one, but won't say).

Great theory & scenario, Raisin! :takeabow: :tyou: :cupcake:

 

[Betty P]

Raisin, I also wonder if the plan was hatched and launched from the elder W farm/vicinity, as it was also searched last summer. Anyone wondered about the closeness of the Flying W Farms to KR's camper? Was KR a "second thought", and someone sent over from the Flying W neighborhood to kill him, too?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It's a plausible theory. I've considered it on numerous occasions. But, JMO, if they got information from JM and AM, it must have been under false pretenses. They gave some other excuse for asking those questions. Manleys have always made an issue about the dogs not barking, something that's self-incriminating. LM & DS repeated it publicly despite the risk of looking guilty because they think its important.

The timing is plausible, but if true, the W's had a lot of luck on their side. I've always thought CR1 & GR were killed first and dragged in the back room so no one would see them while the killers finished their work elsewhere.

Here are the reasons I can't completely accept this scenario, yet:

#1 Why hasn't PCSO and BCI arrested them? They may have been able to pull off the killings, but they would have left evidence. PCSO knew there was ill will between the families (custody battle and fight in UHR the week before) and JW was allegedly supposed to be at HR's that night. Yet the W's were never treated as suspects. LE should have sent someone over to the W farm with a search warrant that day to get prints, search for weapons, bloody clothes, test for gun shot residue, etc. There was sufficient cause to get a SW. LE and BCI didn't search or question the W's seriously for weeks if not months.

#2 Why was JW not arrested, not called before the GJ? Why was the family allowed to move to AK?

#3 If the W family alone were the killers, why is the community still living in fear? Why are so many locals afraid to talk to LE or send in tips. Most of the local drug crowd has been arrested in the years since, few of them have anything to fear from LE. Who is everyone in the area afraid of and why are they afraid?


#4 Why did BCI insist on gathering and processing all the evidence themselves? Why was there no "professional peer review" on this case and the mountains of evidence it produced? As novice mass murderers, W's would have left a lot of evidence and overlooked a lot of things. Why is all that evidence locked up now? (I think I know the answer to this one, but won't say).

Great theory & scenario, Raisin! :takeabow: :tyou: :cupcake:

BBM

if they got information from JM and AM, it must have been under false pretenses.

That might hold true for LM but we have yet to hear anything from JM denying it. Then you have the fact that AM and AW are related.

They may have been able to pull off the killings, but they would have left evidence.

If they have been inside the homes. as JW was numerous times, and AW with "best friend" BW probably was also, their DNA would be expected to be there.

The timing is plausible, but if true, the W's had a lot of luck on their side.

Yes a lot of luck, but careful planning can go a long way.

Why hasn't PCSO and BCI arrested them?

They don't have the smoking gun yet. That is why the "laser focus" and the appeal to the public trying to connect the W's with guns and ammo.

Why was the family allowed to move to AK?

Unless they are charged with a crime, they are free to move anywhere they please just like you or I.

W's are in Alaska, they're not a threat to anyone.

Not all the W's are in AK. Just one branch. Plus if there is a connection with BBL, which at this point is unknown, all those characters are still in OH.

If the W family alone were the killers, why is the community still living in fear? Why are so many locals afraid to talk to LE or send in tips.

Because the rest of the community is just like us, they don't have any real proof the W's did it, and with the rumor going around it was the "Mexican cartel" most people just don't want to risk talking. Then again if it was the W's alone, no one else may have any information to tell. I can't imagine they would be going around telling people they did it.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Raisin, I also wonder if the plan was hatched and launched from the elder W farm/vicinity, as it was also searched last summer. Anyone wondered about the closeness of the Flying W Farms to KR's camper? Was KR a "second thought", and someone sent over from the Flying W neighborhood to kill him, too?

I know it is not popular, but I think the elder W's may have been complaisant. At the very least they knew about it afterward. I think that is where BW and AW got the money to move to AK. Mama gave it to him to get him out of town and away from LE's questions. Remember LM saying they yanked a blanket off from an old man's bed? I have long wondered if that might have been the Elder W's bed since he was known to be very ill.

JMO

 

[enelram]

And they were all shot in the head. How many times she was, I don't think we know for sure, I lost a couple of friends to gunshots in the head, and you don't want to remember a loved one like that. It's up to the family. As was said, we said our goodbyes in private.

HHG was shot 5 times in face/head. CRjr was suspended from school at time of murders.

 

[mommommcclure64]

cant do worse than Taft.

 

[amauet1]

I agree, multiple killers. But I think AW planned it all and AW, JW, BW and maybe the brother of JW carried it out. I think they had the help of AM and maybe JM to track DR's movements.

Everyone was fairly easy to predict except DR. It was a Thursday night during the school year. Fairly certain CR2 would be home in bed, he had to go to school the next morning. It was fairly certain HR would be home in bed, she just had a baby. FR and HHG were a good bet to be home in bed because FR had to work the next day and HHG had a small child to care for. KR too had to work the next day so was probably home in bed. There may have been some doubt about CR1 and GR but still if they knew their habits they could also depend on them being home in bed, especially if they knew they both had to work the next day.

I think that is why the murders were carried out on a week day as opposed to a Friday or Saturday night when CR2 could have been out partying or FR and HHG could have been visiting friends or at the derby races.

The only uncertainty was DR who might work a double shift. That is where AM came in. She admitted texting and talking to DR on FB that night. Then there was that late night text to JW from JM's phone. I believe that text was to let JW know DR was home and would soon be going to bed.

I think that CR1 and GR were killed first before DR even got home. That's why they were dragged into the back bedroom and the front door locked. So if she stopped by and casually looked in a window when they didn't answer the door she wouldn't see anything in the front rooms. The same with FR and HHG. I think by the time they made it to DR's her car was not there so JW contacted AM or JM for info. KR may have been first or right before DR but I think DR's house was last.

I think the W's were more than capable of carrying this crime out. Planning and paying attention to detail doesn't have to mean a professional. Just someone willing to put the time and thought into it. And someone who had enough hatred in their heart for the R's to do it.

JMO

Rasin, I too want to blame the Wagner's because" all the way around" it would make sense to me. Problem is, LE couldn't arrest them and let them leave the country. I believe the day of the raid on their home that LE was there to gather/look for evidence and to arrest someone. By using logic, this tells me that they were involved in some way, weather as informants to the killers, maybe "paid" to have it done, or provided vehicles, guns, ammo and anything to contribute to the killings as this is what was stated in the media by LE as the reason for their "lasor focus". But, they are still free. Maybe they(LE) need that info to be able to arrest them and are not getting it. For some reason, call it "a gut feeling" I feel that there may have been 2/3 killers, but so many many more that knew what was going to happen (robbery/murderers) and did nothing to stop it. Maybe even "egging" the killers/planners on about caring these plans out and providing a "lookout" while the murders were happening. To me, all involved in any way are guilty for ending the lives of these people and I hope all are caught and held responsible for any part they had in this.
You mentioned HHG being home and needing to get up early for her child. Remember that she had 2 children to care for that night, because Chel Rob dropped off litte B that night and left around 10:30pm

 

[amauet1]

No fingerprints?

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

If, fingerprints were in their homes, there's been no mention of them. But here's the problem with some fingerprints, if family was involved (I believe they were) than those fingerprints would prove null and void. Family, mostly younger were running in and out of those trailers all the time. Cousins, Aunts, Uncles, brothers, sisters, and years of people coming and going. And in FR's and CRsr's trailers different amounts of families, friends and costumers fingerprints would be in them as they were older and in the family longer. KR's could produce even more, because it was used when he bought it., in fact all of the homes could have multiple finger prints because I think all were bought used. You can't get rid of all that was in those trailers with even a good cleaning. JMO. Even Dana's place, although new to the family, would have the families prints in it, because of Hannah"s baby shower held there prior to the murders. Same with some DNA, families would be there. So I'm guessing that is some of the puzzle pieces LE is having trouble with.
"Rumors" have flown around since around the beginning of the case that there was "trouble" brewing between CRsr/Dana and the Manleys and maybe some had not been allowed around the Rhoden properties for a while. But the Manleys being the family that found the crimes scenes that morning, would eliminate their fingerprints/DNA being there. All this is JMO

 

[Betty P]

Hi Raisin:

Re yr responses, I'm just going to cut and paste if that's ok.

I didn't phrase my #2 question in the right context, but made reference to it earlier:

Why didn't LE send someone to search the W family farm the day of the murders?

LM already alluded to the custody fight. Local LE had responded to the fights the week before, there was probable cause.

LE cannot arrest the W's because they don't have "enough" evidence. Perhaps they don't have enough evidence because they didn't look for it right after the murders. W's had time to get rid of the evidence and get stories straight because LE gave them time to do that.

LE didn't search the W farm or question them closely for weeks, if not months. Is this the reason why LE has refused to reveal anything publicly about the investigation?

Evidence W's may have left behind


JW was the only family member who visited any of the Rhoden family homes. If his entire family participated in the Rhoden murders, one would not expect to find all of their DNA or prints in the home from previous social visits.

There are also other types and locations for evidence the W's could have left behind not related to social visits.

Fingerprints or DNA on shell casings

Blood - someone likely got bloodied up when they fought with CR1

Gunshot residue on hands and clothing

Pretty convenient that most of that kind of evidence was likely destroyed before LE got around to looking for it.

Because LE didn't look for evidence at the W's for so long, they didn't have to arrest the W family. It also gave them an excuse to allow the W's to move to AK.

Why did non-Ohio LE stop and question the W's several times as they traveled to AK?

Other LE were more suspicious of the W family because they stopped and questioned them numerous times on their trip to AK. FBI, DEA, etc. apparently weren't allowed to question the W's in Ohio. They had to wait until they left the state, then stopped them along the way.

Why would the Feds do this? Is it because they were never allowed to question the W's when they were living in Ohio? DeWine himself said all they used the FBI for was some analysis of evidence.

Why is there still fear in the community?

It's a small town. If W's did it, there would be a lot of people who know that. It would be in the grapevine and, once the W's were gone, people would relax. They also might talk, since, if it's just the W family involved, there's no fear of retribution. Why would other locals and friends of Rhodens want to protect the W's? They should be talking by now.

If the W's did it, why aren't PCSO & BCI still trying to build a case?


They have warehouses full of evidence from 4 separate crime scenes. Probably 10-15 different rooms were contaminated by the killers, all with doors, walls, video cameras, floors for foot prints, etc. Clothing from the victims worn at the time of death would contain hair, fibers, possibly blood from the killers.

Why haven't they called in the FBI for help? To the best of our knowledge, FBI has never even set foot inside those trailers. None of their agents were caught on video of photos of the crime scenes.

Link

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...massacre-investigation-move-alaska/411441001/

 

[Betty P]

HHG was shot 5 times in face/head. CRjr was suspended from school at time of murders.

Not that I don't believe it, but is there a link or something to verify that CR2 was suspended from school?

 

[Flatbush]

Not that I don't believe it, but is there a link or something to verify that CR2 was suspended from school?

I have never heard this. I'd like a link as well.

Sent from my KFDOWI using Tapatalk

 

[amauet1]

Hi Raisin:

Re yr responses, I'm just going to cut and paste if that's ok.

I didn't phrase my #2 question in the right context, but made reference to it earlier:

Why didn't LE send someone to search the W family farm the day of the murders?

LM already alluded to the custody fight. Local LE had responded to the fights the week before, there was probable cause.

LE cannot arrest the W's because they don't have "enough" evidence. Perhaps they don't have enough evidence because they didn't look for it right after the murders. W's had time to get rid of the evidence and get stories straight because LE gave them time to do that.

LE didn't search the W farm or question them closely for weeks, if not months. Is this the reason why LE has refused to reveal anything publicly about the investigation?

Evidence W's may have left behind


JW was the only family member who visited any of the Rhoden family homes. If his entire family participated in the Rhoden murders, one would not expect to find all of their DNA or prints in the home from previous social visits.

There are also other types and locations for evidence the W's could have left behind not related to social visits.

Fingerprints or DNA on shell casings

Blood - someone likely got bloodied up when they fought with CR1

Gunshot residue on hands and clothing

Pretty convenient that most of that kind of evidence was likely destroyed before LE got around to looking for it.

Because LE didn't look for evidence at the W's for so long, they didn't have to arrest the W family. It also gave them an excuse to allow the W's to move to AK.

Why did non-Ohio LE stop and question the W's several times as they traveled to AK?

Other LE were more suspicious of the W family because they stopped and questioned them numerous times on their trip to AK. FBI, DEA, etc. apparently weren't allowed to question the W's in Ohio. They had to wait until they left the state, then stopped them along the way.

Why would the Feds do this? Is it because they were never allowed to question the W's when they were living in Ohio? DeWine himself said all they used the FBI for was some analysis of evidence.

Why is there still fear in the community?

It's a small town. If W's did it, there would be a lot of people who know that. It would be in the grapevine and, once the W's were gone, people would relax. They also might talk, since, if it's just the W family involved, there's no fear of retribution. Why would other locals and friends of Rhodens want to protect the W's? They should be talking by now.

If the W's did it, why aren't PCSO & BCI still trying to build a case?


They have warehouses full of evidence from 4 separate crime scenes. Probably 10-15 different rooms were contaminated by the killers, all with doors, walls, video cameras, floors for foot prints, etc. Clothing from the victims worn at the time of death would contain hair, fibers, possibly blood from the killers.

Why haven't they called in the FBI for help? To the best of our knowledge, FBI has never even set foot inside those trailers. None of their agents were caught on video of photos of the crime scenes.

I seem to remember mention of a red 4 wheeler or two, being on a trailer the day of the raids. Speculation was either LE was using it/them in the search efforts, or were they being taken as evidence? As for fear still in the community, I have "heard" that the elder Wagner's are pretty powerful people in the community and have been for years. Knowing other powerful people in and out of the community and that would put fear in me.JMO