OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

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Dudly said:
New article at WHIO TV in Dayton, Ohio....

https://www.whio.com/news/crime--la...amp.html?ecmp=whiotv_social_facebook_2014_sfp
Click to expand...

Thank you Dudly! I like the way the shorter article is laid out.

1. So, Dewine is not running for AG. I guess I missed this somewhere because I was under the impression he was running for AG. JMO, but the case has become politicized. If you have the democratic candidate and the republican candidate both commenting on a case, that is what I would call politicized.

2. No mention of the MJ grows. ?????

3. If that was the only article I had read about the case, I would swear they are only focused on the custody of S. Thanks to Betty P again for the awesome timeline and the links to the many, many articles. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...N-Pike-Co-OH-8-Family-Members-Murdered/page11

Like everyone else, I have run through my free reads. :sigh:
 
Thinking of the Rhoden family today. Hard to believe it’s been 2 years.


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molly1255 said:
Yes, it is a different scenario, and the killer in this case appears to have been out-of-control with his emotions and unable to handle the stress of the prolonged custody battle and he snapped. But ultimately, it was over a child custody issue and the biological mother and her family were killed.

People can be very different in how they handle extremely stressful situations. Some people snap and react emotionally while others can be quite cool,clear-headed and deliberate in how they go about getting what they want or need.

A week or so ago, I was starting to think the Rhoden murders may have turned into a cold case, but with the recent press and Junk's interview, I don't think it is cold at all. LE continues to focus on the W's and they aren't shy about saying so. They performed the raids on the properties last year and they put the word out to the public that they want people who know them to come forward and tell them what they know.

I think there must be a lack of physical evidence to be able to ensure a successful prosecution. My thoughts are they need a witness. But I think that is highly problematic as I don't think the killers/conspirators are ever going to point the finger at one another.

You may be right and I may be completely wrong. It may have been business with some sort of personal twist. I agree the murders were planned but I don't think it went as smoothly as we've been led to believe. Initially, LE advised the victims were shot in their beds, as they slept. Now we know that CR Sr and GR fought with their killer (s). They were not sleeping in their beds when they were murdered. I also believe CR Jr. was awake when it was happening in his house as where his body was found suggests he may have been attempting to either hide or escape. As for DR, her brother, JM, indicated he opened the door and saw DR's leg and made a quick exit. If her front door led into the living area of the house and I believe it did, then she probably wasn't asleep in her bed and may not have been asleep at all when she was murdered.

I might be a "pollyanna" lol - but I'm going to put my trust in LE on this one. They have nothing to gain by railroading anyone because once an arrest is made, and more details come out, this case will be scrutinized by numerous major media outlets. JMO.
Click to expand...

Just some thoughts, jumping off your post;

I believe that there were at least two of assailants. DR was awake, when they came to the house. I've got a screenshot of her last FB post and I feel like she was killed shortly after that post. (Btw, is it just me, or has the BH Memorial site been shut down?) I believe that she opened the door, b/c she knew the person at the door. HMR was asleep, may have awakened briefly, but there was two of them, so it didn't matter. CR2 was either awake, or awoke after the shots, and tried to hide.

I think that KR was awake ,(or awakened), and he too allowed them inside.

From all indications, both of the homes, at those scenes, were left unlocked.

We do know that they, at either one, or both, FR's home, or CR1's, had easy access.

Investigators have been tight-lipped about details of the crime, but a police report documenting one of the scenes — where two people were found dead — says no forced entry was made, indicating the gunman may have known the family. (1)
Click to expand...

Why lock back only CR1's, and FR's, trailers? We have been told that they were locked, and it's also been said, by BJM, in an interview, that she pulled back a cover, that was on CR1. I think that they knew she'd be coming by early that morning, and by locking the scenes, it might buy them a little time, or, they knew BJM, and had some sort of empathy, over her finding her in-laws and nephews. I'm leaning toward the former.

LM said that the trailer where GR & CR1 were found, was only a shell. I wonder if GR and CR stayed with FR & HHG? Is that why little B didn't have a room fixed up yet? Did someone get them to split up? Get CR1 and GR, to meet their assailants at CR1's trailer, to split up that group of full grown males? Three adult males, who didn't mind a fight, might have outnumbered the assailants.

I do think that the Ws know something. These folks have been friends with the Rs since before S came along. HMR had been seeing JW since she was around 14. She went on vacation with them, was at their home quite a lot, and didn't yet have S. I think JW was the first boy she'd dated seriously, and she'd decided that she wanted to play the field a bit after awhile. Then she found out she was expecting her second. The two families knew each other, were friendly, and it has been said, by AW, that CR1 and GW, were business partners. LM said, It seems more like a hate crime. Well, familiarity can sometimes breed contempt. The two sets of Ws are the only folks that the Rs had the most familiarity with. The most in common.

To me, there were too many ways to go about obtaining custody, or visitation, set in stone, without killing eight people. They even left the most vocal family member alive. It doesn't make sense to me, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen; We do see a new hair style/dye job on JW around that time, and there's his "missed it by hours" statement, that throws me big time. I'm not saying it isn't the Ws. I just have them hovering around 4-5 on my Top Five list of theories.


(1) https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news...illing-Slaying-Facebook-Threat-377011761.html
 
Just thought it was strange that KR and CRSR, both had divorces in 2007. ( KR in April 2007 and CRSR in Dec. 2007).

Wonder what was happening in 2007?


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Thinking about the lack of Justice for this poor family today. 2 years and nothing. It's been made clear who most likely did it, they just didn't leave any evidence so even though it's clear there's not enough for an arrest or conviction. Guess they got away with it! RIP Rhodens. It will never be solved and those murderers will go to their graves in hell knowing what they did.

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Bootsctr said:
Thank you Dudly! I like the way the shorter article is laid out.

1. So, Dewine is not running for AG. I guess I missed this somewhere because I was under the impression he was running for AG. JMO, but the case has become politicized. If you have the democratic candidate and the republican candidate both commenting on a case, that is what I would call politicized.

2. No mention of the MJ grows. ?????

3. If that was the only article I had read about the case, I would swear they are only focused on the custody of S. Thanks to Betty P again for the awesome timeline and the links to the many, many articles. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...N-Pike-Co-OH-8-Family-Members-Murdered/page11

Like everyone else, I have run through my free reads. :sigh:
Click to expand...

Hi Bootsctr,

DeWine is running for Ohio governor this year. Term limits prevent him from running again for AG, so the seat is open.
 
Rhoda said:
Just thought it was strange that KR and CRSR, both had divorces in 2007. ( KR in April 2007 and CRSR in Dec. 2007).

Wonder what was happening in 2007?



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Click to expand...

There's that month of April popping up again, too. I've wondered if even the month has held significance.
 
rsd1200 said:
Just some thoughts, jumping off your post;

I believe that there were at least two of assailants. DR was awake, when they came to the house. I've got a screenshot of her last FB post and I feel like she was killed shortly after that post. (Btw, is it just me, or has the BH Memorial site been shut down?) I believe that she opened the door, b/c she knew the person at the door. HMR was asleep, may have awakened briefly, but there was two of them, so it didn't matter. CR2 was either awake, or awoke after the shots, and tried to hide.

I think that KR was awake ,(or awakened), and he too allowed them inside.

From all indications, both of the homes, at those scenes, were left unlocked.

We do know that they, at either one, or both, FR's home, or CR1's, had easy access.



Why lock back only CR1's, and FR's, trailers? We have been told that they were locked, and it's also been said, by BJM, in an interview, that she pulled back a cover, that was on CR1. I think that they knew she'd be coming by early that morning, and by locking the scenes, it might buy them a little time, or, they knew BJM, and had some sort of empathy, over her finding her in-laws and nephews. I'm leaning toward the former.

LM said that the trailer where GR & CR1 were found, was only a shell. I wonder if GR and CR stayed with FR & HHG? Is that why little B didn't have a room fixed up yet? Did someone get them to split up? Get CR1 and GR, to meet their assailants at CR1's trailer, to split up that group of full grown males? Three adult males, who didn't mind a fight, might have outnumbered the assailants.

I do think that the Ws know something. These folks have been friends with the Rs since before S came along. HMR had been seeing JW since she was around 14. She went on vacation with them, was at their home quite a lot, and didn't yet have S. I think JW was the first boy she'd dated seriously, and she'd decided that she wanted to play the field a bit after awhile. Then she found out she was expecting her second. The two families knew each other, were friendly, and it has been said, by AW, that CR1 and GW, were business partners. LM said, It seems more like a hate crime. Well, familiarity can sometimes breed contempt. The two sets of Ws are the only folks that the Rs had the most familiarity with. The most in common.

To me, there were too many ways to go about obtaining custody, or visitation, set in stone, without killing eight people. They even left the most vocal family member alive. It doesn't make sense to me, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen; We do see a new hair style/dye job on JW around that time, and there's his "missed it by hours" statement, that throws me big time. I'm not saying it isn't the Ws. I just have them hovering around 4-5 on my Top Five list of theories.


(1) https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news...illing-Slaying-Facebook-Threat-377011761.html
Click to expand...

I agree with your thoughts on this. I also saw the pic of JW with the changed hair color. The hair color didn't appear to me to be some kind of fashion statement that a young man might make. I don't what it was!

I initially thought the murders were somehow tied to the grow op, the car business or the combination of several businesses. Last year when LE conducted their searches of the W properties, I was shocked and couldn't imagine how or why they could be involved.

I'm in agreement there was more than one killer - probably two or more. This means that two or more people conspired to kill the Rhodens, they then executed their plan, and it appears no one has talked to a third party about it. I think this is very strange.

A man I greatly admired who I believe was the "Godfather" of understanding conspiracy theories was Vincent Bugliosi. He prosecuted the Tate-LaBianca murders. LE had no clue for months that the two murder scenes were connected but Susan Adkins, one of the conspirator/killers was in jail on an unrelated charge and she told her cellmates about the murders and they called the police.

Bugliosi also wrote a book on the murder of JFK and there is a youtube video of him discussing his research on this. He did not believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. His primary reason for his lone gunman theory was that none of the "conspirators" ever talked. His theory is that if you have two people who conspire to murder someone, it is one person too many.

I believe LE is hoping and waiting for one of the conspirators/killers to talk to a third party, perhaps to just get it off their chest, and that third party comes to LE with what they heard.

JMO.
 
rsd1200 said:
They may have fought for her, but it's very difficult for family to win out against a parent. Especially one who doesn't have any run-ins with LE on their record, is over age 18, has a job, and wants the child. In this instance, it would have been a slim to none chance, that the Rs could have even won grandparent's visitation. HMR wasn't stopping visitation. From all indications they had an agreeable visitation schedule. He could have merely wanted to go to court to have his rights set in stone. In Ohio, the father has few/no rights, if not married to the mother. Maybe with the new guy in her life, and all, he wanted to ensure that his visits remained constant. JW likely had to submit DNA to prove that he was her father before the court would even consider giving her to him. Then he'd had to have gone to court to obtain his visitation rights. Her death did not negate that.




https://www.splaws.com/blog/2014/10/fathers-parental-rights-in-ohio.shtml
Click to expand...
My train of thought was more for waves being made about them taking S out of state or the W's wanting free and clear access to do so. I can see it doesn't hold much water because the W's would have been the first to be looked at by LE.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
 
molly1255 said:
I agree with your thoughts on this. I also saw the pic of JW with the changed hair color. The hair color didn't appear to me to be some kind of fashion statement that a young man might make. I don't what it was!

I initially thought the murders were somehow tied to the grow op, the car business or the combination of several businesses. Last year when LE conducted their searches of the W properties, I was shocked and couldn't imagine how or why they could be involved.

I'm in agreement there was more than one killer - probably two or more. This means that two or more people conspired to kill the Rhodens, they then executed their plan, and it appears no one has talked to a third party about it. I think this is very strange.

A man I greatly admired who I believe was the "Godfather" of understanding conspiracy theories was Vincent Bugliosi. He prosecuted the Tate-LaBianca murders. LE had no clue for months that the two murder scenes were connected but Susan Adkins, one of the conspirator/killers was in jail on an unrelated charge and she told her cellmates about the murders and they called the police.

Bugliosi also wrote a book on the murder of JFK and there is a youtube video of him discussing his research on this. He did not believe there was a conspiracy to kill JFK and that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. His primary reason for his lone gunman theory was that none of the "conspirators" ever talked. His theory is that if you have two people who conspire to murder someone, it is one person too many.

I believe LE is hoping and waiting for one of the conspirators/killers to talk to a third party, perhaps to just get it off their chest, and that third party comes to LE with what they heard.

JMO.
Click to expand...

Agree. I've thought about the co-conspirator thing too. Also, getting hired hit men to come into town, would be extremely risky. How many cases have we seen, where LE is tipped off, and they play the hired killer, or they foil the plot before it's executed? Typically, in the news, the hired killer attempts, usually backfire. I have wondered if a co-conspirator is among the deceased? or if the co-conspirator thought that it was only going to be a beat down, of CR1 and GR, but found out, too late, that he/she had set the Rs up to be murdered. As you said, one person can hold onto a secret much better than two. I hope that someone knows something, and may eventually have to clear their conscience, but fear is likely holding them back. There just isn't anyone to protect them..

Someone, I believe it may have been jk204, brought up, earlier in the thread, a case where one part of a family, killed an entire other part of the family. Took a dozer, and buried the bodies on their farm. No one was ever the wiser, until years later, when one of them involved in the burial, said something, to someone, while drinking, in a bar (iirc). They converged on the home, and dug up the entire family. The case was decades old. I believe someone will slip up eventually. I may be an old woman before it happens... :thinking:
 
StrangeOne said:
My train of thought was more for waves being made about them taking S out of state or the W's wanting free and clear access to do so. I can see it doesn't hold much water because the W's would have been the first to be looked at by LE.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I understand. I can see folks' point with this too. If they can just get rid of those pesky Rs, they can go on with their move, and keep their son's pride and joy, within their family.

If they did this, so they could take her with them to AK, then they are some seriously warped, and dangerous, individuals, and LE needs to get that laser focus back on them. People make decisions to stay, or move, every day, without killing folks. If my family moved my grandkids to another state, I'd be heartbroken, but I'd not plot revenge. I'd make arrangements to visit, or have my children/grandchildren, to come visit me.

I do find it odd that several of the R family members are friends, with JW, and comment/like little S's pics. I don't think that I've seen any thing connecting the Ms to his SM. Not sure what to make of that (if anything).
 
rsd1200 said:
Agree. I've thought about the co-conspirator thing too. Also, getting hired hit men to come into town, would be extremely risky. How many cases have we seen, where LE is tipped off, and they play the hired killer, or they foil the plot before it's executed? Typically, in the news, the hired killer attempts, usually backfire. I have wondered if a co-conspirator is among the deceased? or if the co-conspirator thought that it was only going to be a beat down, of CR1 and GR, but found out, too late, that he/she had set the Rs up to be murdered. As you said, one person can hold onto a secret much better than two. I hope that someone knows something, and may eventually have to clear their conscience, but fear is likely holding them back. There just isn't anyone to protect them..

Someone, I believe it may have been jk204, brought up, earlier in the thread, a case where one part of a family, killed an entire other part of the family. Took a dozer, and buried the bodies on their farm. No one was ever the wiser, until years later, when one of them involved in the burial, said something, to someone, while drinking, in a bar (iirc). They converged on the home, and dug up the entire family. The case was decades old. I believe someone will slip up eventually. I may be an old woman before it happens... :thinking:
Click to expand...

I also really hope someone slips up and says something to another who then takes it to LE. I have a sinking feeling that ultimately, this may be the only way LE will ever be able to bring those responsible to justice.
 
rsd1200 said:
I understand. I can see folks' point with this too. If they can just get rid of those pesky Rs, they can go on with their move, and keep their son's pride and joy, within their family.

If they did this, so they could take her with them to AK, then they are some seriously warped, and dangerous, individuals, and LE needs to get that laser focus back on them. People make decisions to stay, or move, every day, without killing folks. If my family moved my grandkids to another state, I'd be heartbroken, but I'd not plot revenge. I'd make arrangements to visit, or have my children/grandchildren, to come visit me.

I do find it odd that several of the R family members are friends, with JW, and comment/like little S's pics. I don't think that I've seen any thing connecting the Ms to his SM. Not sure what to make of that (if anything).
Click to expand...

It's all odd, considering LE were at first so obsessive about protecting and hiding the surviving Rhoden & Gilley children. Yet they allowed the W family to pack up and move S to AK. No questions asked, no objections, etc. They could have made a case based on the suspicious nature of the family relationship and concern over the safety of the child. Heck, LE suspects someone in that family is a cold blooded mass murderer. :notgood: Had she been a mixed race child being taken away by a black or hispanic family in the same situation, someone would have stepped in, JMO.

JMO, it's apparent the Wagner family has received preferential treatment for being considered possible suspects or accomplices in these murders. I keep getting the vibe in this investigation that the W's are receiving preferential treatment for some reason. "Laser focus" but hands off, like they're "untouchable". What are the friendships, business relationships or family connections that have kept LE from approaching them as aggressively as they've approached others?

Have some higher ups already decided the family members won't be prosecuted, regardless of evidence? How else do you explain the failure to promote the reward fund early in the investigation? I don't know. There's still so much about this case that doesn't make sense. Reinforcing the laser focus on W's on this anniversary is helpful, but the continued shrugging of shoulders and claims of not enough evidence just don't sit well.

When the only thing LE has to offer is to ask the killers to come to police headquarters and turn themselves in, its not good. If they know who the killers are and the evidence they've gathered has been so ineffective in getting arrest warrants, then open up the case files to the news media and public. Maybe they can figure out a way to use all that forensic evidence to get some arrests.


All MOO
 
rsd1200 said:
Agree. I've thought about the co-conspirator thing too. Also, getting hired hit men to come into town, would be extremely risky. How many cases have we seen, where LE is tipped off, and they play the hired killer, or they foil the plot before it's executed? Typically, in the news, the hired killer attempts, usually backfire. I have wondered if a co-conspirator is among the deceased? or if the co-conspirator thought that it was only going to be a beat down, of CR1 and GR, but found out, too late, that he/she had set the Rs up to be murdered. As you said, one person can hold onto a secret much better than two. I hope that someone knows something, and may eventually have to clear their conscience, but fear is likely holding them back. There just isn't anyone to protect them..

Someone, I believe it may have been jk204, brought up, earlier in the thread, a case where one part of a family, killed an entire other part of the family. Took a dozer, and buried the bodies on their farm. No one was ever the wiser, until years later, when one of them involved in the burial, said something, to someone, while drinking, in a bar (iirc). They converged on the home, and dug up the entire family. The case was decades old. I believe someone will slip up eventually. I may be an old woman before it happens... :thinking:
Click to expand...

If the co-conspirator is dead, then only one needs to keep quiet. It could be an unsolved murder in another county or state and would not have ties to Pike County. There is definitely unnatural silence about this case on all sides. I have even wondered if it was a murder-suicide by KR and DS tampered with the evidence to hide that fact. I know that is highly unlikely but with available ingormation, anything is possible...
 
Dudly said:
If the co-conspirator is dead, then only one needs to keep quiet. It could be an unsolved murder in another county or state and would not have ties to Pike County. There is definitely unnatural silence about this case on all sides. I have even wondered if it was a murder-suicide by KR and DS tampered with the evidence to hide that fact. I know that is highly unlikely but with available ingormation, anything is possible...
Click to expand...

Yes, there are quite a few unsolved murders in the region, all committed in similar fashion. All still unsolved. Citizens should be able to expect more from LE and the criminal justice system than to simply wait around for the killer to confess or leak information to someone.

Eight murders, 4 crime scenes all in a killing spree of a couple hours duration. Maybe LE needs "fresh eyes" to look at the evidence.

ETA: "Fresh eyes" means expert outsiders allowed to come in and proactively look at any and all the evidence they want to review with no one looking over their shoulder. It doesn't mean cherry picking evidence reports and sending them to a "buddy" investigator. Allow them to retest any evidence they wish and interview people again. Again, the Rebecca Zahau case showed how much a case can change when third party experts are allowed to re-examine the files and evidence.

Case review should be multi-institutional and multi-disciplinary. Oversight from an independent citizen's review panel would also help. Experts and those in charge should be from outside Ohio.
 
Dudly said:
If the co-conspirator is dead, then only one needs to keep quiet. It could be an unsolved murder in another county or state and would not have ties to Pike County. There is definitely unnatural silence about this case on all sides. I have even wondered if it was a murder-suicide by KR and DS tampered with the evidence to hide that fact. I know that is highly unlikely but with available ingormation, anything is possible...
Click to expand...

Exactly, and, from what some of the R family members seem to be saying, they have zero clue why this happened. They've openly stated, online, that they have no idea. LM has been the only vocal one, on the M side, and he's tossed out at least four scenarios. Apparently whoever did this, didn't think LM's knowledge of things, was a threat at all. They went out of their way to kill KR, but LM was just up the road, knew about the goings on with drama and such, plus he is a talker, and he did talk, after the murders. It wasn't until JM got in trouble over that GPS tracker, that he shut it down.
 
StrangeOne said:
My train of thought was more for waves being made about them taking S out of state or the W's wanting free and clear access to do so. I can see it doesn't hold much water because the W's would have been the first to be looked at by LE.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

BBM

I would hope that the W's would have been the first to be looked at. In my opinion extremely foolish if they hadn't.
 
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