OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Betty P]

LE have been wrong in the past and LE in these forums are not from that area. They don't have inside knowledge anymore than we do because no one in Ohio is going to hand anyone in WS inside information. There is no evidence or indication the Rhoden family were into drugs on that level. They all worked and held jobs. Growing weed is far from organized crime. Its just a thought but LE was so quick to try and point out the weed don't you think if there was more evidence in that direction it would be the first thing pointed out?

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

I'm sorry you misunderstood what I posted. I didn't say or imply that the Rhodens were trafficking in drugs. I've never believed they did as there's no evidence to indicate that. The only had MJ grow ops. As we've discussed many times here before, in the business of selling their MJ they came into contact with other people from groups that not only bought their MJ, but also dealt in other drugs and criminal activity.

I'm sorry if you confused me with some folks who have expressed negative opinions of the victims. Personally, I've never felt that way. Websleuths is a victim-friendly forum and we like to keep it that way when discussing this case.

Please feel free to let me know if you have further questions or need more clarification on this issue.

 

[Betty P]

The Dayton Daily News newspaper is supposed to have an extended article about this case in the Sunday Edition. Here is a recent article:

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...olved-two-years-later/oTzoUShDERQqaqQrSkGEvM/

Excellent article by the Dayton Daily News, thanks for posting the link

“Of the publicly available information, the only thing I can say I would have done differently is that I would have released the coroner’s report without litigation,” Yost said, referencing lawsuits that were filed by the news media to obtain the unredacted reports.

Yost’s Democratic opponent, Steve Dettelbach, held his cards even closer.

“I’ve spent two decades as a prosecutor,” Dettelbach, the former U.S. attorney for the northern district of Ohio, said by text message. “I don’t and won’t politicize an important murder investigation.”

If elected, Dettelbach would bring much more experience and skill to solving the murders and getting a conviction. He's a former US Attorney, which probably puts him a notch above DeWine in professional skills and federal experience. It would be interesting to know what he thinks of the case, but he's not going to discuss it.

Mary Taylor was pretty critical of DeWine and brings up an important point about problems at BCI. He sounds pretty defensive about having to explain the 2yr delay in resolving the Rhoden murders, but there's still no progress.



https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...reate-another-backlog/hwwKySJ5qjdDq2skBKWb6K/

 

[StrangeOne]

I'm sorry you misunderstood what I posted. I didn't say or imply that the Rhodens were trafficking in drugs. I've never believed they did as there's no evidence to indicate that. The only had MJ grow ops. As we've discussed many times here before, in the business of selling their MJ they came into contact with other people from groups that not only bought their MJ, but also dealt in other drugs and criminal activity.

I'm sorry if you confused me with some folks who have expressed negative opinions of the victims. Personally, I've never felt that way. Websleuths is a victim-friendly forum and we like to keep it that way when discussing this case.

Please feel free to let me know if you have further questions or need more clarification on this issue.

I wasn't speaking to you directly or anything. Its mentioned throughout the threads they are involved in drugs from the start. Even the amount in the grow operation was exaggerated in the press and in these threads. I can go back through the threads again if you would like me to get quotes? I don't want you to think I am signaling you out or anything.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Betty P]

I doubt that LE patrols that. It's private property. They'd have to have a warrant. Folks live there. They did issue search warrants for BBL. We had a place kinda like that, on the lake, at one time, when the kids were young. It was units though. LE did not patrol. It was secluded. There were folks who stayed there year 'round. The place had a person at the front who checked you in at the gate, and you had to keep a sticker on your vehicle. A rent-a-cop, checked you in, but it was not frequented by LE. It was private property.

Can someone verify? TIA. Either way, I'm not sure of the significance of a campground in killing the Rhoden family. People meeting to plot the murders could have done so in their own homes, at a park, in the woods, anywhere for that matter. If LE suspected anyone of the murders who was staying at the campground, they would easily get a search warrant, as the would for a private residence, business, etc.

 

[Betty P]

I wasn't speaking to you directly or anything. Its mentioned throughout the threads they are involved in drugs from the start. Even the amount in the grow operation was exaggerated in the press and in these threads. I can go back through the threads again if you would like me to get quotes? I don't want you to think I am signaling you out or anything.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

Thanks for the explanation. There have been people who speculated as to whether CR1 had decided to get involved in selling harder drugs, but not to any great extent. Mostly people feel his interactions involving MJ brought him into contact with dangerous people who were involved in selling hard drugs and/or were involved in other, more serious kinds of criminal activity. This could still possibly apply to the Wagner family, considering AG DeWine and the Pike County Prosecutor continue to mention them as a primary focus of the investigation.

Opinions about the size of the grow ops are based on information LE gave to the news media. Many here also feel that amount may have been exaggerated. It stands to reason that killers taking out a family of 8 people in well planned execution-style murders indicates a serious problem with some extremely dangerous people who have no qualms about such a horrible crime. The fact they've been able to get away with it for 2 yrs is also compelling and indicates it's not your typical criminal.


We all try to make sure this remains a victim friendly forum, but if you ever see something unsubstantiated that seems insulting or defamatory to the victims, just click on the red triangle with the exclamation mark below left and report it to the mods.

 

[rsd1200]

Can someone verify? TIA. Either way, I'm not sure of the significance of a campground in killing the Rhoden family. People meeting to plot the murders could have done so in their own homes, at a park, in the woods, anywhere for that matter. If LE suspected anyone of the murders who was staying at the campground, they would easily get a search warrant, as the would for a private residence, business, etc.

It's not the meeting there, it's the staying there. If there is some sort of nefarious dealings, involved in the reason behind these murders, what better place for bringing things in and out, and to layover? There's lots of possibilities with that place. As one of the investigators said, they look at what all the victims had in common. They all have RW, in common, right down to the kids, and it's not limited to BBL. Even with the rumored fight between CR1 and GW, that's not enough time for them to lay out the murder plan that was put together, if we are to believe what we've been told about the crime scene. Again, it may be the Ws, but JWs misquote, is all that I've got, that's pointing me there. They've not done anything wrong in the eyes of the law, and,
you can go to their FB pages to see that this is true;

“Despite what has been said and alleged, the Wagners were on friendly terms with the Rhodens,” Clark said by email.

And then, what happened to "laser focused"? Did they swallow a bad tip? It's like the weed, and, *advertiser censored* fighting. It seems to have changed over time. What's the difference in saying their "laser focused" on the Ws last year, and saying it again this year? I just don't feel confident that the Ws are involved. I don't feel 100% confident that they aren't though...

In other media interviews Clark implied that DeWine was targeting the Wagner’s in order to make it appear progress was being made in the case. Asked this month if DeWine is still “laser focused” on the family, his spokesman said “the AG’s comments from last year stand.”


But DeWine himself, in an interview, declined to say.


“I’m really not going to talk about who we’re focused on,” DeWine said. “I can just saw we’re moving on the case and we’ve made progress, but I don’t think it would be beneficial to resolving the case to say who we’re focused on and who we’re not focused on.”

 

[rsd1200]

The inconsistencies in his statements are troubling. They also thought the baby was a W at first didn't they? If it had only been HR killed the Rhoden family would have still fought for rights to S.

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

They may have fought for her, but it's very difficult for family to win out against a parent. Especially one who doesn't have any run-ins with LE on their record, is over age 18, has a job, and wants the child. In this instance, it would have been a slim to none chance, that the Rs could have even won grandparent's visitation. HMR wasn't stopping visitation. From all indications they had an agreeable visitation schedule. He could have merely wanted to go to court to have his rights set in stone. In Ohio, the father has few/no rights, if not married to the mother. Maybe with the new guy in her life, and all, he wanted to ensure that his visits remained constant. JW likely had to submit DNA to prove that he was her father before the court would even consider giving her to him. Then he'd had to have gone to court to obtain his visitation rights. Her death did not negate that.

In Ohio, if a child is born to an unmarried woman, she is considered by law to be the sole custodial parent. A father has no rights until he establishes paternity and obtains a Court Order granting him custody, shared parenting, or parenting time. There are a number of ways to establish paternity, including signing an Acknowledgment of Paternity Affidavit, and/or DNA Testing.


Just because paternity is established, it does not automatically mean that the father has custody or visitation rights with the minor child. The same goes for father's who have been ordered by the Child Support Enforcement Agency to pay child support. Once paternity is established, it is necessary for the father to petition the Court for custody, shared parenting, or parenting time.

https://www.splaws.com/blog/2014/10/fathers-parental-rights-in-ohio.shtml

 

[rsd1200]

self delete

 

[rsd1200]

I know of a case where the mother moved over 400 miles away and then filed for divorce. The court ordered visitation of one week per year plus any other time agreed upon by both parties.

A guy that my daughter knew, had a child with a chic, they didn't marry, and they both lived in Ohio. I think, last I heard, he had gotten his dna completed, and gone through the court process to get established visits, then, eventually won custody in court. Prior to establishing paternity, he was at her mercy. He had no set visitation, she'd call and tell him he could have her for the weekend, and he'd show, but she wouldn't, he had to walk the chalk to get to see the child. She'd move and not tell him, etc... I think it took him almost five years to get everything completed through the courts, along with going on to win custody. It was a train wreck.

 

[molly1255]

JMO, but people have and will continue to do some very crazy things to get full possession of their child/children. There are many examples of kidnappings and I imagine there have been cases of murder as well. As for murders of multiple members of the biological mother's family? I haven't researched that yet, but perhaps that has happened, too.

I know the murders "could" have been connected to the drug trade in some way but there's no proof the Rhodens were even dealing. It could have been due to a lot of different things, but in order to make any of these theories fit, it becomes quite complicated, IMO.

Perhaps this is really simple? I'm of the "Occum's Razor" philosophy that the simplest explanation is usually the best explanation. LE remains focused on the W's. There is a very good reason for this, IMO. We don't know everything that LE knows. Perhaps they lack the evidence they need to make arrests? At least for now. We also have an inconsistent statement by JW and I believe the only ones who are saying the custody arrangement was worked out in an amicable fashion are the W's. Those who could say otherwise are dead. But we do have LM making an early statement about a "child custody thing". He knew there were problems but he may not have been aware of the extent of the problems or about a recent event that may have occurred.

There may have been a big blow-up as early as earlier in the evening on the night of the murders. Perhaps the only witnesses to that blow-up were murdered so they couldn't talk about it? Perhaps KR witnessed it and that would explain why he was killed. Didn't Dana leave work that night very upset? No one seems to know what she was upset about.

Would CR Sr. open the door to one of the W's? Would the other family members who were murdered open their doors to one of the W's? Perhaps they would if the "someone" who was knocking on the door was apologizing and asking to talk about it. Did someone in the W family know the lay of the land? Probably more than one were familiar with the properties and homes.

And then there was the communication between JW and JM the night the family was murdered. Was it to find out if Dana was home from work? Maybe. So this could have been the work of drug lords seeking retribution, or some other thing, but as far as I can see, there is only one person who has benefited from the murders and that is JW. He's now in Alaska with his family, far, far away from Pike Co., and he has full custody of his child.

I am not a local, but Ive been following the case. This is the only thing that makes sense to me. JMO.

 

[molly1255]

https://www.abc15.com/news/crime/ol...ily-of-five-after-child-custody-fight-in-2002

This article is about the murders of five family members in Mesa, AZ in 2002. The issue was child custody.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

A guy that my daughter knew, had a child with a chic, they didn't marry, and they both lived in Ohio. I think, last I heard, he had gotten his dna completed, and gone through the court process to get established visits, then, eventually won custody in court. Prior to establishing paternity, he was at her mercy. He had no set visitation, she'd call and tell him he could have her for the weekend, and he'd show, but she wouldn't, he had to walk the chalk to get to see the child. She'd move and not tell him, etc... I think it took him almost five years to get everything completed through the courts, along with going on to win custody. It was a train wreck.

Adding to this, my ex has a child with someone in Cinci area. Paternity was questionable and established pretty early on. However, that’s all that Hamilton Co. established, in order to set up child support. In other words, paternity and child support is about the only thing the Ohio family courts are steadfast about. Any visitation has to be filed for and litigated with the proper filing of paperwork and court hearings. A child born out of wedlock in the state of Ohio is automatically assumed in the custody of the mother per the documents signed at the hospital. I can’t remember the name of the form that is signed but it’s written on the back of the document. It may be called the paternity affidavit. In other words, if you’re not married and give birth in Ohio, custody is automatically granted to the mother before she leaves the hospital.

 

[amauet1]

Can someone verify? TIA. Either way, I'm not sure of the significance of a campground in killing the Rhoden family. People meeting to plot the murders could have done so in their own homes, at a park, in the woods, anywhere for that matter. If LE suspected anyone of the murders who was staying at the campground, they would easily get a search warrant, as the would for a private residence, business, etc.

I can only explain my feelings about BBL being a meeting place in Pike Co. The property where BBL is now, used to be "Frasures Chateau Club" where all the "elite meet" back in the day. But as a lot of businesses from the past have done, it quit being the hot spot of Southern Ohio over the years and was losing business. The 70's and 80's were known as the "cocaine era", and it was an expensive drug, usually more affordable to the rich. How does that connect to BBL, IMO the place may the have changed, but what went on in the past hasn't. Rich attracts Rich. Business leaders of the area, their families and friends all use the Resort as a local social club. Some people who like to party in a big way drink and drug and if your clientele do that, usually the boss provides that for you. Good for business. Drug dealers are the supplier's of drugs.
IMO, Pike Co, Adams Co, Highland Co, Ross Co, Scioto Co and Columbus Ohio are around the area of BBL and their prominent people use this as a central gathering place. All walks of life use the campgrounds, both rich and poor. What better place to hide criminal activities, but among a family friendly innocent resort?
RW is a prominent business owner who is friends with other prominent business owners in the area and out of state. Owns car lots, is friends with other's who own car lots. What better way to launder money.

 

[rsd1200]

https://www.abc15.com/news/crime/ol...ily-of-five-after-child-custody-fight-in-2002

This article is about the murders of five family members in Mesa, AZ in 2002. The issue was child custody.

That's kind of a different scenario. He had dv, child abuse, orders of protection against him. His story tha this bil did it, did not check out at all. Kinda like the dude who had a guy kill his family, here, then he killed the hit man, and tried to look like a hero. He was arrested within five days and is serving LWOP. Although the R/HHG murderers annihilated a family, I don't see it as the same type. If CR1 had gone off his rocker and done this, and tried to blame it on KR, then I could see that. These folks were murdered in the night, while sleeping, and it was well planned from what we know. There had to be at least two. I just feel it is business, but also very personal. I've wondered, too, if it was also used as a loud and clear message to someone else in the area.

Man Kills Family Blames Hit Man
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ryan-c...ed-his-familys-killings-avoids-death-penalty/

 

[rsd1200]

Adding to this, my ex has a child with someone in Cinci area. Paternity was questionable and established pretty early on. However, that’s all that Hamilton Co. established, in order to set up child support. In other words, paternity and child support is about the only thing the Ohio family courts are steadfast about. Any visitation has to be filed for and litigated with the proper filing of paperwork and court hearings. A child born out of wedlock in the state of Ohio is automatically assumed in the custody of the mother per the documents signed at the hospital. I can’t remember the name of the form that is signed but it’s written on the back of the document. It may be called the paternity affidavit. In other words, if you’re not married and give birth in Ohio, custody is automatically granted to the mother before she leaves the hospital.

I think, it is called “Acknowledgment of Paternity Affidavit". My daughter's friend, either didn't get one, or, being young, the couple did get one, and never filled it out. I'm guessing the latter.

 

[molly1255]

That's kind of a different scenario. He had dv, child abuse, orders of protection against him. His story tha this bil did it, did not check out at all. Kinda like the dude who had a guy kill his family, here, then he killed the hit man, and tried to look like a hero. He was arrested within five days and is serving LWOP. Although the R/HHG murderers annihilated a family, I don't see it as the same type. If CR1 had gone off his rocker and done this, and tried to blame it on KR, then I could see that. These folks were murdered in the night, while sleeping, and it was well planned from what we know. There had to be at least two. I just feel it is business, but also very personal. I've wondered, too, if it was also used as a loud and clear message to someone else in the area.

Man Kills Family Blames Hit Man
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ryan-c...ed-his-familys-killings-avoids-death-penalty/

Yes, it is a different scenario, and the killer in this case appears to have been out-of-control with his emotions and unable to handle the stress of the prolonged custody battle and he snapped. But ultimately, it was over a child custody issue and the biological mother and her family were killed.

People can be very different in how they handle extremely stressful situations. Some people snap and react emotionally while others can be quite cool,clear-headed and deliberate in how they go about getting what they want or need.

A week or so ago, I was starting to think the Rhoden murders may have turned into a cold case, but with the recent press and Junk's interview, I don't think it is cold at all. LE continues to focus on the W's and they aren't shy about saying so. They performed the raids on the properties last year and they put the word out to the public that they want people who know them to come forward and tell them what they know.

I think there must be a lack of physical evidence to be able to ensure a successful prosecution. My thoughts are they need a witness. But I think that is highly problematic as I don't think the killers/conspirators are ever going to point the finger at one another.

You may be right and I may be completely wrong. It may have been business with some sort of personal twist. I agree the murders were planned but I don't think it went as smoothly as we've been led to believe. Initially, LE advised the victims were shot in their beds, as they slept. Now we know that CR Sr and GR fought with their killer (s). They were not sleeping in their beds when they were murdered. I also believe CR Jr. was awake when it was happening in his house as where his body was found suggests he may have been attempting to either hide or escape. As for DR, her brother, JM, indicated he opened the door and saw DR's leg and made a quick exit. If her front door led into the living area of the house and I believe it did, then she probably wasn't asleep in her bed and may not have been asleep at all when she was murdered.

I might be a "pollyanna" lol - but I'm going to put my trust in LE on this one. They have nothing to gain by railroading anyone because once an arrest is made, and more details come out, this case will be scrutinized by numerous major media outlets. JMO.

 

[amauet1]

You know that quote from Junk "there are some things that could clear this up for you in about 2 seconds" bothers me. It implies to me, that something in this case was pretty simple to find or find out. So why has it taken 2 years to get to a point of making that statement?

 

[Dudly]

Adding to this, my ex has a child with someone in Cinci area. Paternity was questionable and established pretty early on. However, that’s all that Hamilton Co. established, in order to set up child support. In other words, paternity and child support is about the only thing the Ohio family courts are steadfast about. Any visitation has to be filed for and litigated with the proper filing of paperwork and court hearings. A child born out of wedlock in the state of Ohio is automatically assumed in the custody of the mother per the documents signed at the hospital. I can’t remember the name of the form that is signed but it’s written on the back of the document. It may be called the paternity affidavit. In other words, if you’re not married and give birth in Ohio, custody is automatically granted to the mother before she leaves the hospital.

Definitely true in Ohio. They don't care if you can't afford food or housing and support both, you pay support... They will even take away your drivers licenses if you are behind in support....

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I think, it is called “Acknowledgment of Paternity Affidavit". My daughter's friend, either didn't get one, or, being young, the couple did get one, and never filled it out. I'm guessing the latter.

From my own experience, it is filled out by the same hospital staff who does the birth certificate. I had one with my oldest because we were not yet married. It’s an automatic process and my best guess is, it must be something legally mandated for hospitals to complete for any child born to an unmarried woman.

 

[Dudly]

New article at WHIO TV in Dayton, Ohio....

https://www.whio.com/news/crime--la...amp.html?ecmp=whiotv_social_facebook_2014_sfp