OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[rsd1200]

I think I know what place, BBL? If the W's are truly there suspects/focus, and they are under investigation, wouldn't the FBI be involved since they now live in another state?

They may be. We just might not know. There's a field office in every state. There might be one or two who have moved into the region (AK/OH), undercover. These guys are good, if it's as big, as Reader implied, then I'd not expect to see them walking around town, interviewing folks, in marked vehicles. It may also be one reason why the case is extremely silent.

Marc Ruskin trafficked in heroin, pedaled stolen jewels, laundered money — and he worked for the good guys.
As an FBI undercover agent, Ruskin maintained about 12 different identities, routinely juggling three at a time. Double- and triple- lives unfold in his memoir “The Pretender”

https://nypost.com/2017/06/03/my-12-different-identities-as-an-undercover-fbi-agent/

 

[rsd1200]

In the area these people are from it is a big thing that family stay together. Since the W's say they were planning the move before the killings was it ever mentioned to HR? She...the whole Rhoden family would have been against the move just like the whole W family would have been for it. The conflicting statements is troubling. The W's thought HR's baby was a W right? I can assure you a mountain family would do a lot to keep children with them. Another thing why is it everyone assumes the R family were drug dealers or into drugs outside of the marijuana? It was even said that the marijuana was an exaggeration. When a bust happens you see them bring all the stuff from the bust out. You won't find that with the R's. Please don't take this the wrong way but is this an assumption because of preconceived notions? I am not insulting anyone at all. I know from first hand experience people have ideas of how things are. The person who is behind all this might want us to do just that so we miss things. Forgive me I forgot the name of the person who found out DR's trailer was in was bought in a woman's name who was deceased? That was a fantastic find! Just to add more to my thought did this bunch of R's do this kind of thing a lot? Buy stuff in deceased peoples name and possibly sale it?

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I too live in the region, only in Kentucky, so am very familiar with the kin sticking together. As to the custody, the Ws were the ones who wanted to leave. HMR had S. They'd had to have won in court to get S, and, even if they did, they'd had a stipulation to not be able to move outside of certain range, to accommodate HMR's visitation with her. I think it was 50 miles in my divorce, and in my own child's custody agreement, she had stick around, within 50 miles or so, iirc, to accommodate visitation. That's IF JW had won in court. I don't think that he would have. There were no drugs at DR's place. If anything the courts would likely have kept visitation the same as it was. I could see this more if JW, as the non-custodial parent, had not had his rights hammered out , and the R's were the one's who were preparing to move to AK, with his child, but that's not what was happening.

I don't really think that the R's were into anything other than a small weed grow, maybe a few pounds, and the only reason I think that they had a couple little grows, is because KR's daughter, said that her Dad grew some, and fwiw, DS, said he saw a "tray" of plants (he's sketchy to me though). If they were, I think it was something that they jumped into, naively, and then wanted out of, and it ended badly.

We don't know that the W family were into dealing either, it's said that BigW and CR1 were business partners, though. Could they both have been in business with the same person that all the Rs have in common?

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think they killed them only over custody either. The custody battle may have triggered threats or retribution over the local MJ trade or other local organized crime.

As other LE members here at WS have speculated, the deaths may have been triggered by big bosses in regional organized crime who didn't like the escalating battles between the Rhodens & Wagners and decided to take action. LE was already clamping down on drug trafficking and other organized crime in the region. They didn't want any more problems from the growers, etc. in Pike Co. attracting more attention from LE.

I'm not sure how BBL fits in with any of this other than a place where locals meet and maybe some drugs were sold. I doubt there's anyone there who are the big drug bosses in the area, but anything is possible. LE likely knows who the big organized crime figures are in the region, but they need to make a connection between W's, those leaders or killers. JMO, if it were a ad hoc group of first time local killers, they would know that by now and would probably have enough evidence to arrest them. Murder stats in the area show there doesn't seem to be any locals who have gained a lot of experience in murdering the locals.

ETA: I'm still open to considering the Wags themselves hired some people from the area to kill the Rhodens. Also think it's possible JW or someone from the W family participated.

BBM

That dude has his fingers in a lot of pies, there's the Health thing, used car lots, BBL, music industry, etc... BBL is not just a place where locals meet either. There is a waiting list, of over 150 folks, just to get a spot to set up a camper there. What better place to meet? To have a place to layover? Car lots are a popular way to launder $$$, too.

 

[amauet1]

I think someone needs to provide some proof that DR's new home was bought in the name of a deceased woman. Extraordinary claims require proof. Sorry, I'm skeptical. We may be going a little too far out on a limb trying to make some real estate connection to these deaths.

I agree, there's never been anything from LE to indicate Rhodens were involved with drugs. The only thing mentioned is an MJ grow op. Some have speculated in the past about the deaths being the result of a recent foray by CR1 into dealing drugs, but it's just theorizing/speculation.

Many here have long believed (and I agree) that CR1 purchased DR's new home in an effort to defend the family against any attempts by the Wagners to gain custody of Hanna's daughter S. According to Leonard Manley, the custody issue had been ongoing. Jake Wagner talks of having spent quite a bit of money on an attorney in his attempts to gain custody. The Rhoden family was fighting and would likely have been very upset if Wagners tried to take custody of S and move her to AK.

JMO, Wagners were very cruel to attempt to take the child away from her mother and mother's family. Very wrong. They were the ones who initiated the custody battle, not the victims. Regardless of their claims they were close to Hanna R, they obviously cared nothing about her rights as a mother. She ended up dead, possibly as a result of their actions, shot dead in bed next to her 4 day old infant. If Wagners were involved in this, they are truly monsters.

I don't know how this info got so twisted! I said the trailer that FR and HHG lived in was in Richard and Melissa Ann Wiesel names who owned the trailer. It is a Horizon model, worth 5900.00, made in 1972. It was furnished when bought by Wiesel's March 12, 1998. The problem I found was Melissa died in 1990, but her name is still on the title. It still has a real estate tax of 261.97 that hasn't been paid. Melissa's parents were Lloyd Stone and Katherine Penwell Stone. I read in some article that Dana, CRjr, HMR, lil Sophia, FR, HHG, BR2 all lived in this trailer until Dana got the new place. Pretty crowded! That's why I said they probably bought the new place because of the custody battle. New place with 3 large bedroom's, clean, well kept lawn and no mj anywhere around it.
Guess families up there share same names and keep property in the families.

 

[Betty P]

BBM

That dude has his fingers in a lot of pies, there's the Health thing, used car lots, BBL, music industry, etc... BBL is not just a place where locals meet either. There is a waiting list, of over 150 folks, just to get a spot to set up a camper there. What better place to meet? To have a place to layover? Car lots are a popular way to launder $$$, too.

The Wagner grandparents also have some of the same kind of businesses - home health care services (something related to nursing home businsess?), selling horses, lots of real estate w/ land contracts. Horse, dog and pig breeding. They even have a church registered in their name. We researched all that last summer, will have to go back and find the links.

http://www.flyingwfarms.com/

I think with Junk's latest interview, we should be able to post some links, etc. about the W family businesses, etc.

As for BBL, there's probably some sketchy stuff that goes on out there, but LE probably patrols the place and keeps tabs on what's going on. If anyone is trying to hide out there, LE would still have access and be able to keep an eye on them.

 

[Betty P]

I don't know how this info got so twisted! I said the trailer that FR and HHG lived in was in Richard and Melissa Ann Wiesel names who owned the trailer. It is a Horizon model, worth 5900.00, made in 1972. It was furnished when bought by Wiesel's March 12, 1998. The problem I found was Melissa died in 1990, but her name is still on the title. It still has a real estate tax of 261.97 that hasn't been paid. Melissa's parents were Lloyd Stone and Katherine Penwell Stone. I read in some article that Dana, CRjr, HMR, lil Sophia, FR, HHG, BR2 all lived in this trailer until Dana got the new place. Pretty crowded! That's why I said they probably bought the new place because of the custody battle. New place with 3 large bedroom's, clean, well kept lawn and no mj anywhere around it.
Guess families up there share same names and keep property in the families.

That's what I thought. There was no questions about the title and purchase of the new home DR lived in, correct? There wasn't anything unusual about that transaction.

 

[Betty P]

They may be. We just might not know. There's a field office in every state. There might be one or two who have moved into the region (AK/OH), undercover. These guys are good, if it's as big, as Reader implied, then I'd not expect to see them walking around town, interviewing folks, in marked vehicles. It may also be one reason why the case is extremely silent.


https://nypost.com/2017/06/03/my-12-different-identities-as-an-undercover-fbi-agent/

Agree, it's very likely the feds have had people watching them in AK.

 

[amauet1]

The properties are confusing also. 4077 is listed on all the parcels there that CRsr, FR and HHG, and the yellow house is on.. That is how it's worded in the Pike County Auditor's site under real estate. 4199 has been the address for the yellow house, than CRsr's was listed as 4077, FR's is listed as 4091. The reason for all the different addresses, is when they added the trailers, numbers went out of sequence because they were put there at different times. All those properties are et al, part of the 4 brothers trust. It must have been set up as a survivors trust of some kind because the way I understand it, all the properties went straight into Tony's and Brady's hands to manage or own. (check Pike Co probate records for info on this) My understanding is the land can be sold or whatever, but both brothers are in charge of what happens with it. If you have seen how many people have applied for Kenneth's piece of the pie, it's going to be one big headache for probate.
If you look at the history of the et al properties, IMO it looked like Clarence pulled a fast one on Geneva.. The records only go back to 1999, and Clarence went to prison in 1998? In 1999, it shows the land in John Rhoden's name only. John is Clarence's brother. Maybe he put it in his brother's name because he owed a lawyer for his defense? But he was protecting his property from something. The properties went back into his name on May 18, 2004 and stayed that way until April 18, 2011 when they went into CRsr's.
One property listed in the Rhoden compound at 4077 Union Hill Rd, is not et al, but is listed in Brady's name now as the others are. It is 4203 N Side Union Rd C-30. Parcel 13 of 26. It has .3500 of an acre. It belonged to Ollie and Faye Crabtree from 1999 to March 26, 2009 when it was transferred into CRsr's name. I think the Crabtree's live somewhere across the street from 4077. Faye Crabtree has a son named David Wiesel, at least he's listed that way on her facebook.

 

[amauet1]

Correction on post about Melissa Wiesel. She died on November 25, 2012. Was married in 1990. Sorry

 

[amauet1]

That's what I thought. There was no questions about the title and purchase of the new home DR lived in, correct? There wasn't anything unusual about that transaction.

Not that I am aware of, Dana's address was 3122 and that property is listed in Scioto County Auditors offices.

 

[amauet1]

I don't think they killed them only over custody either. The custody battle may have triggered threats or retribution over the local MJ trade or other local organized crime.

As other LE members here at WS have speculated, the deaths may have been triggered by big bosses in regional organized crime who didn't like the escalating battles between the Rhodens & Wagners and decided to take action. LE was already clamping down on drug trafficking and other organized crime in the region. They didn't want any more problems from the growers, etc. in Pike Co. attracting more attention from LE.

I'm not sure how BBL fits in with any of this other than a place where locals meet and maybe some drugs were sold. I doubt there's anyone there who are the big drug bosses in the area, but anything is possible. LE likely knows who the big organized crime figures are in the region, but they need to make a connection between W's, those leaders or killers. JMO, if it were a ad hoc group of first time local killers, they would know that by now and would probably have enough evidence to arrest them. Murder stats in the area show there doesn't seem to be any locals who have gained a lot of experience in murdering the locals.

ETA: I'm still open to considering the Wags themselves hired some people from the area to kill the Rhodens. Also think it's possible JW or someone from the W family participated.

Then this sure back fired on the big bosses!

 

[StrangeOne]

I think someone needs to provide some proof that DR's new home was bought in the name of a deceased woman. Extraordinary claims require proof. Sorry, I'm skeptical. We may be going a little too far out on a limb trying to make some real estate connection to these deaths.

I agree, there's never been anything from LE to indicate Rhodens were involved with drugs. The only thing mentioned is an MJ grow op. Some have speculated in the past about the deaths being the result of a recent foray by CR1 into dealing drugs, but it's just theorizing/speculation.

Many here have long believed (and I agree) that CR1 purchased DR's new home in an effort to defend the family against any attempts by the Wagners to gain custody of Hanna's daughter S. According to Leonard Manley, the custody issue had been ongoing. Jake Wagner talks of having spent quite a bit of money on an attorney in his attempts to gain custody. The Rhoden family was fighting and would likely have been very upset if Wagners tried to take custody of S and move her to AK.

JMO, Wagners were very cruel to attempt to take the child away from her mother and mother's family. Very wrong. They were the ones who initiated the custody battle, not the victims. Regardless of their claims they were close to Hanna R, they obviously cared nothing about her rights as a mother. She ended up dead, possibly as a result of their actions, shot dead in bed next to her 4 day old infant. If Wagners were involved in this, they are truly monsters.

The inconsistencies in his statements are troubling. They also thought the baby was a W at first didn't they? If it had only been HR killed the Rhoden family would have still fought for rights to S.

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[StrangeOne]

I don't think they killed them only over custody either. The custody battle may have triggered threats or retribution over the local MJ trade or other local organized crime.

As other LE members here at WS have speculated, the deaths may have been triggered by big bosses in regional organized crime who didn't like the escalating battles between the Rhodens & Wagners and decided to take action. LE was already clamping down on drug trafficking and other organized crime in the region. They didn't want any more problems from the growers, etc. in Pike Co. attracting more attention from LE.

I'm not sure how BBL fits in with any of this other than a place where locals meet and maybe some drugs were sold. I doubt there's anyone there who are the big drug bosses in the area, but anything is possible. LE likely knows who the big organized crime figures are in the region, but they need to make a connection between W's, those leaders or killers. JMO, if it were a ad hoc group of first time local killers, they would know that by now and would probably have enough evidence to arrest them. Murder stats in the area show there doesn't seem to be any locals who have gained a lot of experience in murdering the locals.

ETA: I'm still open to considering the Wags themselves hired some people from the area to kill the Rhodens. Also think it's possible JW or someone from the W family participated.

LE have been wrong in the past and LE in these forums are not from that area. They don't have inside knowledge anymore than we do because no one in Ohio is going to hand anyone in WS inside information. There is no evidence or indication the Rhoden family were into drugs on that level. They all worked and held jobs. Growing weed is far from organized crime. Its just a thought but LE was so quick to try and point out the weed don't you think if there was more evidence in that direction it would be the first thing pointed out?

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[StrangeOne]

I don't know how this info got so twisted! I said the trailer that FR and HHG lived in was in Richard and Melissa Ann Wiesel names who owned the trailer. It is a Horizon model, worth 5900.00, made in 1972. It was furnished when bought by Wiesel's March 12, 1998. The problem I found was Melissa died in 1990, but her name is still on the title. It still has a real estate tax of 261.97 that hasn't been paid. Melissa's parents were Lloyd Stone and Katherine Penwell Stone. I read in some article that Dana, CRjr, HMR, lil Sophia, FR, HHG, BR2 all lived in this trailer until Dana got the new place. Pretty crowded! That's why I said they probably bought the new place because of the custody battle. New place with 3 large bedroom's, clean, well kept lawn and no mj anywhere around it.
Guess families up there share same names and keep property in the families.

So no one living in the first trailer claimed to be the owner of it? I apologize for misunderstanding you.

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[StrangeOne]

Correction on post about Melissa Wiesel. She died on November 25, 2012. Was married in 1990. Sorry

Its easy to make mistakes from time to time.

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[rsd1200]

The Wagner grandparents also have some of the same kind of businesses - home health care services (something related to nursing home businsess?), selling horses, lots of real estate w/ land contracts. Horse, dog and pig breeding. They even have a church registered in their name. We researched all that last summer, will have to go back and find the links.

http://www.flyingwfarms.com/

I think with Junk's latest interview, we should be able to post some links, etc. about the W family businesses, etc.

As for BBL, there's probably some sketchy stuff that goes on out there, but LE probably patrols the place and keeps tabs on what's going on. If anyone is trying to hide out there, LE would still have access and be able to keep an eye on them.

I doubt that LE patrols that. It's private property. They'd have to have a warrant. Folks live there. They did issue search warrants for BBL. We had a place kinda like that, on the lake, at one time, when the kids were young. It was units though. LE did not patrol. It was secluded. There were folks who stayed there year 'round. The place had a person at the front who checked you in at the gate, and you had to keep a sticker on your vehicle. A rent-a-cop, checked you in, but it was not frequented by LE. It was private property.

 

[rsd1200]

The properties are confusing also. 4077 is listed on all the parcels there that CRsr, FR and HHG, and the yellow house is on.. That is how it's worded in the Pike County Auditor's site under real estate. 4199 has been the address for the yellow house, than CRsr's was listed as 4077, FR's is listed as 4091. The reason for all the different addresses, is when they added the trailers, numbers went out of sequence because they were put there at different times. All those properties are et al, part of the 4 brothers trust. It must have been set up as a survivors trust of some kind because the way I understand it, all the properties went straight into Tony's and Brady's hands to manage or own. (check Pike Co probate records for info on this) My understanding is the land can be sold or whatever, but both brothers are in charge of what happens with it. If you have seen how many people have applied for Kenneth's piece of the pie, it's going to be one big headache for probate.
If you look at the history of the et al properties, IMO it looked like Clarence pulled a fast one on Geneva.. The records only go back to 1999, and Clarence went to prison in 1998? In 1999, it shows the land in John Rhoden's name only. John is Clarence's brother. Maybe he put it in his brother's name because he owed a lawyer for his defense? But he was protecting his property from something. The properties went back into his name on May 18, 2004 and stayed that way until April 18, 2011 when they went into CRsr's.
One property listed in the Rhoden compound at 4077 Union Hill Rd, is not et al, but is listed in Brady's name now as the others are. It is 4203 N Side Union Rd C-30. Parcel 13 of 26. It has .3500 of an acre. It belonged to Ollie and Faye Crabtree from 1999 to March 26, 2009 when it was transferred into CRsr's name. I think the Crabtree's live somewhere across the street from 4077. Faye Crabtree has a son named David Wiesel, at least he's listed that way on her facebook.

Some of that property went to NRT, as admin, after CRsr died, for just a very short period of time.

 

[Dudly]

The Dayton Daily News newspaper is supposed to have an extended article about this case in the Sunday Edition. Here is a recent article:

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...olved-two-years-later/oTzoUShDERQqaqQrSkGEvM/

 

[StrangeOne]

The Dayton Daily News newspaper is supposed to have an extended article about this case in the Sunday Edition. Here is a recent article:

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...olved-two-years-later/oTzoUShDERQqaqQrSkGEvM/

I figured this case would be used in the upcoming elections. I do hope the full autopsy reports come out.

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[Dudly]

I too live in the region, only in Kentucky, so am very familiar with the kin sticking together. As to the custody, the Ws were the ones who wanted to leave. HMR had S. They'd had to have won in court to get S, and, even if they did, they'd had a stipulation to not be able to move outside of certain range, to accommodate HMR's visitation with her. I think it was 50 miles in my divorce, and in my own child's custody agreement, she had stick around, within 50 miles or so, iirc, to accommodate visitation. That's IF JW had won in court. I don't think that he would have. There were no drugs at DR's place. If anything the courts would likely have kept visitation the same as it was. I could see this more if JW, as the non-custodial parent, had not had his rights hammered out , and the R's were the one's who were preparing to move to AK, with his child, but that's not what was happening.

I don't really think that the R's were into anything other than a small weed grow, maybe a few pounds, and the only reason I think that they had a couple little grows, is because KR's daughter, said that her Dad grew some, and fwiw, DS, said he saw a "tray" of plants (he's sketchy to me though). If they were, I think it was something that they jumped into, naively, and then wanted out of, and it ended badly.

We don't know that the W family were into dealing either, it's said that BigW and CR1 were business partners, though. Could they both have been in business with the same person that all the Rs have in common?

I know of a case where the mother moved over 400 miles away and then filed for divorce. The court ordered visitation of one week per year plus any other time agreed upon by both parties.