OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Betty P]

I don't think they killed their family, but do they want themselves, or, anymore of their family deceased? If LE can't protect them, obviously four men, who were used to brawling, couldn't protect themselves, or their family. The discrepancies are just that. It's why LE focuses on them. If I told two completely different stories about how I found my deceased family, LE would be all over me. They don't much care for differing story lines. Not so much, I think, because they think they killed them, but b/c they think they know more. I think there may be several folks who know more. BJM ran in and grabbed those babies, up, and out of there. That's one Hell of a woman. I'd hope that I'd do that and I'd hope that my sibling would have gone in to get the crying infant at my other sibs home. How did he know that she was "like that"? How did he know that she and CR2 were deceased? He never even said a word about not wanting to see his nephew "like that". Was CR2 not supposed to be there that night? Is that why LE didn't really look for him at first? How hard is it to look in the child's room, in a closet, or behind a bed? The most obvious places a child would hide. That makes no sense either.

I'm not sure they told two different stories. The details sounded pretty much the same, aside from news media reporting errors. The Manleys at the scene were obviously in a panic. LM was probably concerned that CR2 was inside, possibly still alive and able to be rescued. That would have been my response - find him and see if he's ok.

LE themselves, including Reader, were very traumatized by what they saw that day upon discovering the bodies. It's reasonable to assume the Manleys were even more traumatized and in a panic. Trauma does that to people - makes them forget some details, say strange things, react in odd ways.

Here's a link to someone describing their experience in a similar, but less traumatic situation:

http://www.samefacts.com/2011/04/he...happens-to-people-and-how-can-they-be-helped/

It's the account of a man who, with his wife, witnessed a man being hit and killed on a highway. He talks of imagining hearing things, shock, different responses from his wife, etc.

 

[Betty P]

Here's another scholarly article listing the immediate responses to trauma. Keep in mind individuals respond differently, showing different reactions and symptoms

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207191/table/part1_ch3.t1/?report=objectonly

Immediate Emotional Reactions

Numbness and detachment
Anxiety or severe fear
Guilt (including survivor guilt)
Exhilaration as a result of surviving
Anger
Sadness
Helplessness
Feeling unreal; depersonalization (e.g., feeling as if you are watching yourself)
Disorientation
Feeling out of control
Denial
Constriction of feelings
Feeling overwhelmed

Immediate Physical Reactions
Nausea and/or gastrointestinal distress
Sweating or shivering
Faintness
Muscle tremors or uncontrollable shaking
Elevated heartbeat, respiration, and blood pressure
Extreme fatigue or exhaustion
Greater startle responses
Depersonalization

Immediate Cognitive Reactions

Difficulty concentrating
Rumination or racing thoughts (e.g., replaying the traumatic event over and over again)
Distortion of time and space (e.g., traumatic event may be perceived as if it was happening in slow motion, or a few seconds can be perceived as minutes)
Memory problems (e.g., not being able to recall important aspects of the trauma)
Strong identification with victims

Immediate Behavioral Reactions

Startled reaction
Restlessness
Sleep and appetite disturbances
Difficulty expressing oneself
Argumentative behavior
Increased use of alcohol, drugs, and tobacco
Withdrawal and apathy
Avoidant behaviors

Immediate Existential Reactions

Intense use of prayer
Restoration of faith in the goodness of others (e.g., receiving help from others)
Loss of self-efficacy
Despair about humanity, particularly if the event was intentional
Immediate disruption of life assumptions (e.g., fairness, safety, goodness, predictability of life)

BBM

More at link.

Much of the erratic responses and behaviors of the Manleys during ongoing discovery of the bodies and the immediate aftermath fit these symptoms. Well trained law enforcement officers can recognize these symptoms and discern which ones are natural reactions and which are the result of someone trying to be deceptive.

 

[rsd1200]

I understand where you're coming from. The only connection I'm seeing is JM and his wife possibly being set up by members of the JW family to take the blame for some kind of involvement.

Perhaps it makes more sense to explore the Wagner's activities. How were they possibly involved in any kind of illegal activity that resulted in the murders? Who were their connections? What were they involved in? What was up with JW's job as a driver? Is that connected?

Let's see if we can find some more clues and add them to the timeline, start trying to fill in blanks.

I've tried to fit them into this, but they've done just as the Ms. LE cannot even name them as suspect(s). A 2 a.m. email and a mysterious truck that JM bought from someone, that they really pushed the law in tracking, have both yielded nothing. With today's technology, and I don't see the Ws as tech geniuses, those digital devices should have yielded something. The Ws left digital footprints, that could be followed, all over the internet, without even trying to sleuth them... I think Big W and CR1 just locked horns over the living conditions, but CR1 fixed that. The Rs locked horns with lots of folk it seems. The Ws, like the Ms, have:

Clark said the family has "cooperated 110 percent" and have specifically:

• Provided laptops, phones and DNA willingly to authorities.
• Agreed to repeated interviews with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation agents in the last year.
• Told authorities they were traveling - and then moving - to Alaska, a place they have contemplated relocating for a decade.
• Offered information to the BCI on business associates of one of the victims. (This is where I'm looking, and the Ms wouldn't stand a chance, nor would the other Rs, so it's better to complain of incompetence of the law, or be quiet (respectively). I've never seen the two families come together in a plea for info from the public, either.)

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-case-because-authorities-clueless/431678001/

 

[Betty P]

First Betty, I never implied that the Manleys killed their family. I feel some of them knew what happened and have hindered the investigation by lying about what they know. I have a problem with them living so close by, there just about everyday, telling media they didn't know anything about the mj grows, hardly knew or hung out with his son in law (LM). I just don't see a mother of a 15 year old girl and pregnant needing to be put on a school bus. BJM saying she helped raise DR's children and the children's children (FR). IMO, JM, LM. and BJM and maybe more Manley's and Rhoden's have a much poorer life now, than they did with the Rhoden's alive. The Manley's by their own talking have made themselves part of this. It seemed to me they were very much into the Rhoden's business both personal and finances. Maybe that was usual for them and accepted by the families, I don't know.

Well, let's look at the stuff that's been reported in the news media.

IIRC, LM is the only one who said he didn't know anything about MJ operations. That may be true. I don't recall the others saying that. It appears CR1 and KR were pretty good about keeping it under wraps. LM talks a lot and I can see them keeping it from him.

BJM taking her daughter to the bus stop doesn't seem too unusual. Assume it was some distance from their home, it was a cool morning, etc. At 15, kids are usually running late in the morning.

BJM saying she helped raise DR's children and grandchildren possibly falls under the category of trauma victims identifying closely with victims after a violent death, exaggerating close relationships. No doubt she probably spent a lot of time with the kids, babysitting, etc. as they grew up.

Manleys do have a much poorer life now, which, IMO, removes any motive for their involvement in the killings. I've never subscribed to the belief that they participated in the murder of 8 close family members for what would be very little financial gain. They had no history of being involved in any kind of criminal activity before the murders, outside of speeding tickets, etc. No theft, fraud, swindling or really violent behavior.

If Manleys had any knowledge of who might be involved in the killings, LE did themselves no favors in trying to get that information from them. They've investigated every part of their lives and properties, looked at their phone and SM activities, etc. and have come up dry. The only connection they've made is between JW, AM and JM, the calls/texts the night of the murders. They've likely all been called into the grand jury in the past year, forced to answer questions without a lawyer present. Still nothing. The only questions I have about that is why it took LE over a year to pursue anything they learned from their phone records. They would have had those records early in the investigation.

Manleys being knowledgeable about the Rhoden's personal lives seems natural with close knit families living together. I've not seen too much evidence they had detailed knowledge of their finances, other than routine stuff.

If LE thought any of the Manleys knew something, why didn't they offer them some sort of protection to make them talk? They only showed the Manleys hostility and high pressure tactics - that's not how you get information from people. LE has to know who their friends and associates are. Why have they only pursued the relationship with the Wagners? Why haven't they looked further into the W's activities and associates? Why haven't they gone to AK to apply pressure and interview them?

At most, JM and his wife were set up by W's and their connections. They may have been used by the W's to get information about the families activities that night. If so, they were probably kept in the dark about what was happening and who was involved. Focus on JW, his family, his associates and his activities.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm not sure they told two different stories. The details sounded pretty much the same, aside from news media reporting errors. The Manleys at the scene were obviously in a panic. LM was probably concerned that CR2 was inside, possibly still alive and able to be rescued. That would have been my response - find him and see if he's ok.

LE themselves, including Reader, were very traumatized by what they saw that day upon discovering the bodies. It's reasonable to assume the Manleys were even more traumatized and in a panic. Trauma does that to people - makes them forget some details, say strange things, react in odd ways.

Here's a link to someone describing their experience in a similar, but less traumatic situation:

http://www.samefacts.com/2011/04/he...happens-to-people-and-how-can-they-be-helped/

It's the account of a man who, with his wife, witnessed a man being hit and killed on a highway. He talks of imagining hearing things, shock, different responses from his wife, etc.

It still doesn't resonate with LE, they pick apart things like, someone saying their daughter left the scene to come pick them up, then, later, it appears that she didn't. Certain things like that, on the day of, then if they change that in later LE interviews, and in public interviews, and timelines don't add up, it's going to make them look suspect. If only because they were all the first on the scene. Same with DS. His story has changed over time.

However, it's kinda like how folks were looking so harshly, at why no one thought of KR, but I didn't find that odd. I figured they thought he was at work and were trying to call him. When they realized he didn't show, that's when it hit them. They likely thought it was CR1's and his core family, at first.

I'm not talking suspect in the murders, to me, but suspect in knowing more than they're willing to say.

 

[rsd1200]

I think at first LE may have thought that since they couldn't find CRjr at first, that maybe he had killed everyone and was hiding. That was a rumor, I heard in the being. And it kinda made since, because they had the schools on lock down at first. Either that, or they thought "kids" were involved in the murders. JMO

I had heard it rumored, in the beginning, that they'd found him in the woods. That he'd tried to run. In clearing the home though, they should have found him. If this was as sophisticated as they said, they should have known a 16 y/o could not have committed these murders.

 

[Betty P]

I've tried to fit them into this, but they've done just as the Ms. LE cannot even name them as suspect(s). A 2 a.m. email and a mysterious truck that JM bought from someone, that they really pushed the law in tracking, have both yielded nothing. With today's technology, and I don't see the Ws as tech geniuses, those digital devices should have yielded something. The Ws left digital footprints, that could be followed, all over the internet, without even trying to sleuth them... I think Big W and CR1 just locked horns over the living conditions, but CR1 fixed that. The Rs locked horns with lots of folk it seems. The Ws, like the Ms, have:

Clark said the family has "cooperated 110 percent" and have specifically:

• Provided laptops, phones and DNA willingly to authorities.
• Agreed to repeated interviews with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation agents in the last year.
• Told authorities they were traveling - and then moving - to Alaska, a place they have contemplated relocating for a decade.
• Offered information to the BCI on business associates of one of the victims. (This is where I'm looking, and the Ms wouldn't stand a chance, nor would the other Rs, so it's better to complain of incompetence of the law, or be quiet (respectively). I've never seen the two families come together in a plea for info from the public, either.)

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-case-because-authorities-clueless/431678001/

We have to take some of what Clark says with a grain of salt. His job is to deflect attention away from the W family and make them appear innocent. I'm sure he's leaving out many details while exaggerating others.

Offered information to the BCI on business associates of one of the victims.

Does it seem unlikely the Wagners would give information connected to anyone associated with the murders? JMO, it sounds more like a deflection or "red herring". It did, however, sound like there were other business associates that the R's & W's had in common. If these business associates were involved trafficking, it seems unlikely the Manleys would have known who they were. Those are dangerous and powerful connections and unlikely CR1 or KR would have shared that information.

Who likely knew the identity of those business connections?

CR1
KR
JW

Possibly knew:

DR
Papa W
Mama W
Grandparents

I'm leaving any Manleys off the list for now because they may have been used by the killers and had to be kept in the dark about the activities that night. They wouldn't have willingly participated in helping some "business associate" kill their sister/daughter, nieces and nephews, etc.

Where are these business associates located?

Was JW's travels as a trucker associated with this activity? Where was he hauling loads to and from?

These are the blanks we really need to fill in.

 

[Bootsctr]

I've tried to fit them into this, but they've done just as the Ms. LE cannot even name them as suspect(s). A 2 a.m. email and a mysterious truck that JM bought from someone, that they really pushed the law in tracking, have both yielded nothing. With today's technology, and I don't see the Ws as tech geniuses, those digital devices should have yielded something. The Ws left digital footprints, that could be followed, all over the internet, without even trying to sleuth them... I think Big W and CR1 just locked horns over the living conditions, but CR1 fixed that. The Rs locked horns with lots of folk it seems. The Ws, like the Ms, have:

Clark said the family has "cooperated 110 percent" and have specifically:

• Provided laptops, phones and DNA willingly to authorities.
• Agreed to repeated interviews with the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation agents in the last year.
• Told authorities they were traveling - and then moving - to Alaska, a place they have contemplated relocating for a decade.
• Offered information to the BCI on business associates of one of the victims. (This is where I'm looking, and the Ms wouldn't stand a chance, nor would the other Rs, so it's better to complain of incompetence of the law, or be quiet (respectively). I've never seen the two families come together in a plea for info from the public, either.)

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-case-because-authorities-clueless/431678001/

Awesome post!

(1) I so agree that LE would have had that text message early on in the case and especially if JW willingly gave up his phone (which it sounds like he did). I don't know if JM balked at giving up his phone, but LE certainly didn't hesitate in impounding his truck as evidence, IIRC. JW completely denied the text. JM said nothing public at all. Certainly you are well within your legal rights to deny giving LE your cell phone, but the minute you refuse LE is going to say "you are not cooperating with the investigation."

(2) Regarding your last sentence "I've never seen the two families come together in a plea for info from the public, either." LM's t-shirt from JM's hearing read "Justice for Gilley and Rhodens." Did the W's ever do a public plea for the killers to be found before they moved to Alaska? Have the Gilleys ever made a public statement for justice for HHG? To me, it seemed LM very much suspected the W's, but again he is the only one I recall stating the information about the contentious custody battle on public record. If the text is legit, then my suspicion lies there. In fact, I believe if legit and depending on the context, it could have been much more damning for JW than JM, but since LE pussy-footed around searching the W's property until after they left for Alaska, JM was left holding the bag, and a very tiny bag it was.

Link for the hearing and LM and AM are seen at the end of this very short hearing: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/05/22/rhoden-evidence-tampering-court-today/102003386/

 

[Betty P]

It still doesn't resonate with LE, they pick apart things like, someone saying their daughter left the scene to come pick them up, then, later, it appears that she didn't. Certain things like that, on the day of, then if they change that in later LE interviews, and in public interviews, and timelines don't add up, it's going to make them look suspect. If only because they were all the first on the scene. Same with DS. His story has changed over time.

However, it's kinda like how folks were looking so harshly, at why no one thought of KR, but I didn't find that odd. I figured they thought he was at work and were trying to call him. When they realized he didn't show, that's when it hit them. They likely thought it was CR1's and his core family, at first.

I'm not talking suspect in the murders, to me, but suspect in knowing more than they're willing to say.

And the hard part of these suspicions in this case is in separating verifiable information from rumors. Rumors have become so intertwined with our discussion here, it's hard to keep the known facts straight.

I'll give it another try in sorting out fact from rumor on the morning of the murders. I keep it all in the timeline and I still only have one sourced item that says BJM took her daughter to the bus stop. If you have a link to a media source that says she later told a different story, please post it and I'll add it to the timeline. If it's just a rumor, we'll have to let it go. Thanks.

Friday, 4/22/2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, exchanges text messages with Dana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo
2 am: James Manley texted Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden and father of her oldest daughter

Between 1 am and 7 am - the following were murdered

Bodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.
Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)
Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley
Body found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page55>


7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed.
7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not known
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

7:15 – 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn’t go further into Dana’s home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.
Ibid

8:07 am: Dep. Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Dep. Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."

8:12 am: Dep. Music, Dep. Ball, and Maj. Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page57>

8:07 am – 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.


8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI (Source CNN -- I will have to fetch a link)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>

12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>


1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report Kenneth's body

1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

1:49 pm – Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhoden

 

[Rhoda]

Well, let's look at the stuff that's been reported in the news media.

IIRC, LM is the only one who said he didn't know anything about MJ operations. That may be true. I don't recall the others saying that. It appears CR1 and KR were pretty good about keeping it under wraps. LM talks a lot and I can see them keeping it from him.

BJM taking her daughter to the bus stop doesn't seem too unusual. Assume it was some distance from their home, it was a cool morning, etc. At 15, kids are usually running late in the morning.

BJM saying she helped raise DR's children and grandchildren possibly falls under the category of trauma victims identifying closely with victims after a violent death, exaggerating close relationships. No doubt she probably spent a lot of time with the kids, babysitting, etc. as they grew up.

Manleys do have a much poorer life now, which, IMO, removes any motive for their involvement in the killings. I've never subscribed to the belief that they participated in the murder of 8 close family members for what would be very little financial gain. They had no history of being involved in any kind of criminal activity before the murders, outside of speeding tickets, etc. No theft, fraud, swindling or really violent behavior.

If Manleys had any knowledge of who might be involved in the killings, LE did themselves no favors in trying to get that information from them. They've investigated every part of their lives and properties, looked at their phone and SM activities, etc. and have come up dry. The only connection they've made is between JW, AM and JM, the calls/texts the night of the murders. They've likely all been called into the grand jury in the past year, forced to answer questions without a lawyer present. Still nothing. The only questions I have about that is why it took LE over a year to pursue anything they learned from their phone records. They would have had those records early in the investigation.

Manleys being knowledgeable about the Rhoden's personal lives seems natural with close knit families living together. I've not seen too much evidence they had detailed knowledge of their finances, other than routine stuff.

If LE thought any of the Manleys knew something, why didn't they offer them some sort of protection to make them talk? They only showed the Manleys hostility and high pressure tactics - that's not how you get information from people. LE has to know who their friends and associates are. Why have they only pursued the relationship with the Wagners? Why haven't they looked further into the W's activities and associates? Why haven't they gone to AK to apply pressure and interview them?

At most, JM and his wife were set up by W's and their connections. They may have been used by the W's to get information about the families activities that night. If so, they were probably kept in the dark about what was happening and who was involved. Focus on JW, his family, his associates and his activities.

I think I remember reading that BJM took a gun and shot up the mobile home of her boyfriend.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rsd1200]

Well, let's look at the stuff that's been reported in the news media.

IIRC, LM is the only one who said he didn't know anything about MJ operations. That may be true. I don't recall the others saying that. It appears CR1 and KR were pretty good about keeping it under wraps. LM talks a lot and I can see them keeping it from him.

BJM taking her daughter to the bus stop doesn't seem too unusual. Assume it was some distance from their home, it was a cool morning, etc. At 15, kids are usually running late in the morning.

BJM saying she helped raise DR's children and grandchildren possibly falls under the category of trauma victims identifying closely with victims after a violent death, exaggerating close relationships. No doubt she probably spent a lot of time with the kids, babysitting, etc. as they grew up.

Manleys do have a much poorer life now, which, IMO, removes any motive for their involvement in the killings. I've never subscribed to the belief that they participated in the murder of 8 close family members for what would be very little financial gain. They had no history of being involved in any kind of criminal activity before the murders, outside of speeding tickets, etc. No theft, fraud, swindling or really violent behavior.

If Manleys had any knowledge of who might be involved in the killings, LE did themselves no favors in trying to get that information from them. They've investigated every part of their lives and properties, looked at their phone and SM activities, etc. and have come up dry. The only connection they've made is between JW, AM and JM, the calls/texts the night of the murders. They've likely all been called into the grand jury in the past year, forced to answer questions without a lawyer present. Still nothing. The only questions I have about that is why it took LE over a year to pursue anything they learned from their phone records. They would have had those records early in the investigation.

Manleys being knowledgeable about the Rhoden's personal lives seems natural with close knit families living together. I've not seen too much evidence they had detailed knowledge of their finances, other than routine stuff.

If LE thought any of the Manleys knew something, why didn't they offer them some sort of protection to make them talk? They only showed the Manleys hostility and high pressure tactics - that's not how you get information from people. LE has to know who their friends and associates are. Why have they only pursued the relationship with the Wagners? Why haven't they looked further into the W's activities and associates? Why haven't they gone to AK to apply pressure and interview them?

At most, JM and his wife were set up by W's and their connections. They may have been used by the W's to get information about the families activities that night. If so, they were probably kept in the dark about what was happening and who was involved. Focus on JW, his family, his associates and his activities.

LM, iirc, in an interview (vid), said that he wasn't ever down there, but then says he helped CR1, described the "business trailer" as nothing but a shell, and also says " his family had been riven by tensions and recriminations since the beginning of the year." (1)

'I didn't know anything about it [drugs]. We were a loving family.'
Fighting back tears, he said: 'My daughter would give you the shirt off her back. Everybody loved her. She didn't deserve this.
'She loved her kids. She would have died for them. She worked everyday.
'The rest of the family [her children] all seemed to be good…but I don't know about the rest of them [the other victims].' (1)

LM, to me, is saying, my daughter had nothing to do with this, my grandkids seemed like good kids, but I'm not so sure about those Rs. (I've thought about that statement many times throughout this case.)

Where BJM lived at the time of the murders, iirc, it was at least a 20 minute drive, to the Rs. There aren't really bus stops, the bus just picks kids up at the end of their driveway. Like the Rs, she lived around others in trailers, but it wasn't a trailer park, where all kids would meet at the entrance (I could be wrong, but based on where I believe that she lived at the time, her daughter would have just walked to the end of the drive. Though, it's possible, that BJM sat with her, in the vehicle, so that she could leave, right after the bus picked her up. Buses are usually fairly timely, within five minutes or so, when there's no bad weather.

BJM raising the kids/grandkids. I do not think that BJM killed her family, but, I do think someone knew she'd find them, and had feelings for CR1, thereby covering CR1, and locking the doors to that trailer, and FR's home. They knew she'd be by there early that morning, but they probably didn't know about the hidden key. I don't care which trailer she went into first, or which friend followed her inside, but LE probably would. We are talking that morning, within just minutes, after LE got there, you know they began taking her statement, and those of the friends. One friend stayed outside while she went into FR's. There were two, actual, witnesses. Completely incubated from the press, I might add, but surely they remembered which one of them followed her inside FR's trailer, and which stayed outside. Also, you know that all of them have spoken about that day many times. It's different than one person, coming upon eight people, murdered, in one home. Fwiw, DS seems to have been shunned, by most all, though... His accountings must not gee and haw for folks.

The Ms got vehicles from CR1, and BJM, got a place to live, but it seems they paid for the vehicles, and BJM worked for both CR1, and KR. BJM, honestly, has been extremely close to the Rs since before old man CRsr died. I don't think that LM took anything from CR1, either, his son may have benefited from buying a vehicle from them, and making payments to them, rather than a bank though. Yes, CR1 wanted a better life for his family, but he chose a path, that could have possibly, caused him to rub elbows, with folks, who killed him and his family. Do I think BJM had a hand in this? No. Possibly unwittingly? Yes.

LE has not offered protection to the families, or anyone else, for coming forward with information. They do not have the ability to protect anyone. This is why I have firearms in my home, and have a home plan. If I relied on the LEOs, in this county, to make it here, if I heard someone coming into my home, I'd be dead before I got the 9 dialed out. I'm guessing it's much the same there. Pike is a pretty big county, small population, sparse LEO force.

If the Ws were setting up the Ms, they did a very poor job. If the plan was as "sophisticated" as LE and the AG said it was, the Ms should be in jail, if it was a set up. I don't think the Ws are that smart. They've willingly and without much complaint, (until the big "show", when they went to AK), given LE everything they've asked. The courts didn't even give LE search warrants for the W's private homes. Only the land, and the trailers. If I were moving, and going to store anything related to a murder, it would not be in a bunch of livestock trailers, or in a barn, or sold to someone. It would be at the bottom of a river, in a burn barrel, or in a deep ravine, somewhere in the Appalachian Mountains. I'm just not feeling it with the Ws. I could be very wrong, but they just don't seem smart enough to pull this off.

I've had about 4-5 pet theories over the past two years, that I still hang onto , and they change places, with the wind, but the Ws, although in the list, have just never held a spot above four. They just don't have it, I don't think. In the link below, you can even see that even LM is pushing the "slapping" incident, which is not even in my top five. I don't know for sure if LM knows anything useful or not as he's thrown out 2-3 different theories that we've all discussed here, but, I do think that both the R and M, families, do know more than they are willing to share. That it was an isolated incident b/c CR1, KR, and likely GR, had gotten mixed up in something bad, that got them all killed, and they now don't want their families killed. In other words, they took a risk, and it turned out very bad. The assailant(s) won't be coming for anyone else.

Manley said the officials had not given the consideration to the road rage retribution that he had hoped for.


Raising his fist and putting his forefinger onto his thumb in the shape of a zero, he said: 'That's what they gave me back…they didn't want to hear nothing.' He added: 'I asked the sheriff's department about the incident that happened a month ago about my grandson when a 40-year-old woman…hit him in the face. 'He had bruising all down his face.'

He said his daughter Dana, Christopher's mother, went to court, but the case did not result in convictions against the offender.


But threats were made afterwards against his daughter and his son, he said. The threats had been recorded on a cell phone and would be made available to the investigators, he said.

(1)

Just some thoughts this morning.


(1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nth-murders-denies-family-involved-drugs.html

 

[rsd1200]

And the hard part of these suspicions in this case is in separating verifiable information from rumors. Rumors have become so intertwined with our discussion here, it's hard to keep the known facts straight.

I'll give it another try in sorting out fact from rumor on the morning of the murders. I keep it all in the timeline and I still only have one sourced item that says BJM took her daughter to the bus stop. If you have a link to a media source that says she later told a different story, please post it and I'll add it to the timeline. If it's just a rumor, we'll have to let it go. Thanks.

Friday, 4/22/2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, exchanges text messages with Dana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf4ObgRJ_Xo

2 am: James Manley texted Jake Wagner, ex-boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden and father of her oldest daughter

Between 1 am and 7 am - the following were murdered

Bodies found at 3122 UHR: Dana, Hanna Rhoden, Chris Rhoden Jr.
Bodies found at 4077 UHR: Chris Sr. and Gary (3 GSW to head)
Bodies found at 4199 URH: Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley
Body found near 799 LFR: Kenneth Rhoden (1 GSW to head)

From <https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page55>

7:15 am: Bobby Jo Manley, sister of Dina Rhoden, arrives at Chris Sr.'s property to feed his animals. She says she was with two friends, identities have varied, not confirmed.
7:15 to 7:40?: She uses a key to unlock the front door and sees the bodies of Gary & Chris Rhoden Sr. Exact time not known
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news...here/84194756/

7:15 – 7:53 am: Sometime after discovering the bodies, Billy Jo Manley calls her brother James Manley. He and his son go to the home of Dana Rhoden and discover she is dead. According to his wife, James doesn’t go further into Dana’s home, though he can see her legs and hear a baby crying.
Ibid

8:07 am: Dep. Chandler arrived "at a neighboring residence where he was flagged down by a subject. Dep. Chandler advised that he needed multiple ambulances due to multiple down at multiple residences."

8:12 am: Dep. Music, Dep. Ball, and Maj. Evans all arrived "on scene" where they were approached by [Redacted] who stated: "there are two more dead people here." [Redacted] pointed to the residence at 4077 Union Hill.

From <https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page57>

8:07 am – 8:17 am: Time of death declared for victims.


8:21 am: PCSO request for assistance sent to BCI (Source CNN -- I will have to fetch a link)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>

12:13 pm: at least 4 BCI Crime Scene Unit trucks are seen at the intersection of Hwy 32 and Union Hill Road headed towards the crime scenes. (Source: tweet including a photo made by Gannett Ohio reporter @saranealeigh)

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

From <https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?306434-OH-Pike-County-8-people-from-one-family-dead-as-police-hunt-for-killer(s)-5/page62>


1:26 pm Friday: Donald Stone calls 911 to report Kenneth's body

1:36 pm -- Ohio AG Mike DeWine issues a press release: 7 people murdered in "execution-style killings"
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/22/us/ohi...g-pike-county/

1:49 pm – Time of death listed for Kenneth Rhoden

BBM: She -BJM- said she can't remember many details after the discoveries, including how her older brother, James Manley, came to find their sister Dana Rhoden dead in her trailer, which is north of the other two trailers on Union Hill Road. (1)

"That Friday morning started out much like every other morning, she said. Manley got up about 6:10 a.m. to wake her 15-year-old daughter by 6:30 a.m. and get her on the bus to school by 7." (1) (Nothing about a bus stop, and where they lived, unless, I've got the wrong address, it's most common to be picked up at the end of the drive. Either way, she had to be on the bus, by 7.)

Piketon LE released two 911 call recording from the April 22nd slayings. The first came from a female, @ 7:49 a.m. The second, from a male, at 1:29 p.m.[/QUOTE] (2)

It has also been stated that the first 911 call was received at 7:53 a.m, and two deputies were flagged down and given additional information. (3)

7:53 a.m. - Deputies who were responding, were flagged down, and given two additional addresses, where more victims were found. (2)

10:07 a.m. Seven confirmed dead.

11:30 a.m. It was unknown at this time if the gunman was among the seven bodies shot “execution-style,” (3)

2:33 p.m. Eighth body found (KR). (2)

(1) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

(2) https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...ser-look-the-who-died/w7zXQ8zAtReP0AWXmJDTyL/

(3) https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...-pike-county-shooting/I3nkEl3XgnupsF5V5Axe6M/

Fwiw, though, I don't think that we are talking about the same discrepancies. I'm talking about LM saying BJM came and got him, and one paper saying she called her brother, and another saying she doesn't remember how he got there, etc... I'm still not saying that they killed their family, only that the sibs of the deceased, R & M, may know more than they are sharing, to keep themselves, and their own children, safe. If they'd murder a 16 y/o, and young nursing mothers, they'd murder their kids, too.

 

[pepper 34]

Kentucky plates. I remember hearing about that bust and I had just mentioned to my s/o the other day that I'd not heard of many ODs lately. I'd wondered if maybe it was kinda moving out of our region. I guess it was!

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/a...on-fueling-kentucky-s-opioid-epidemic-n839921

[FONT=&quot]"The suit alleges that from January 2010 through December 2016, McKesson distributed 18,434,834 doses of prescription opioids in Floyd County alone, amounting to 477 opioid pills for every person living in the county."[/FONT]

 

[Betty P]

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/a...on-fueling-kentucky-s-opioid-epidemic-n839921

[FONT="]"The suit alleges that from January 2010 through December 2016, McKesson distributed 18,434,834 doses of prescription opioids in Floyd County alone, amounting to 477 opioid pills for every person living in the county."[/FONT]

:tears:

A tragedy of epic proportions.

 

[rsd1200]

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/a...on-fueling-kentucky-s-opioid-epidemic-n839921

[FONT=&amp]"The suit alleges that from January 2010 through December 2016, McKesson distributed 18,434,834 doses of prescription opioids in Floyd County alone, amounting to 477 opioid pills for every person living in the county."[/FONT]

And now they'll yank the folks off, who do need pain treatment, and they'll turn to Lord knows what.

There was Roger just off a shift at the coal mine, where he had operated a bulldozer and made $4,000 per month. - It was a Sunday. He was miles off the nearest road hunting deer, on his ATV, when he flipped. As the vehicle tumbled, his boot caught its bottom, ripping open his right knee, twisting his lower back out of alignment. - Twelve years later, what he had left was this: a monthly check for $1,240, a hollowed face frozen in a grimace, two dogs he took out every hour, less for their reprieve than for his, and Melinda, always Melinda, who was coming out of the bedroom for the first time the next day, at 4 p.m.

In the months after the accident, the conversations had been reminders to take his OxyContin. Then they turned to his mounting tolerance and how difficult it was to get enough, as state authorities began targeting opioid abuse, and his daily prescription dropped from eight pills to four, to three, to two. All over eastern Kentucky, pain-management clinics were closing. Doctors were getting in trouble. Others were moving away, or writing prescriptions for far fewer pills than before, and soon Roger was looking beyond the clinics for what he wanted, not just for his pain, but because drugs and the people he met through them gave him something to do, which was how it went the night Melinda overdosed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/lo...o-save-their-marriage/?utm_term=.a517645c1c52

 

[amauet1]

LM, iirc, in an interview (vid), said that he wasn't ever down there, but then says he helped CR1, described the "business trailer" as nothing but a shell, and also says " his family had been riven by tensions and recriminations since the beginning of the year." (1)

'I didn't know anything about it [drugs]. We were a loving family.'
Fighting back tears, he said: 'My daughter would give you the shirt off her back. Everybody loved her. She didn't deserve this.
'She loved her kids. She would have died for them. She worked everyday.
'The rest of the family [her children] all seemed to be good&#8230;but I don't know about the rest of them [the other victims].' (1)

LM, to me, is saying, my daughter had nothing to do with this, my grandkids seemed like good kids, but I'm not so sure about those Rs. (I've thought about that statement many times throughout this case.)

Where BJM lived at the time of the murders, iirc, it was at least a 20 minute drive, to the Rs. There aren't really bus stops, the bus just picks kids up at the end of their driveway. Like the Rs, she lived around others in trailers, but it wasn't a trailer park, where all kids would meet at the entrance (I could be wrong, but based on where I believe that she lived at the time, her daughter would have just walked to the end of the drive. Though, it's possible, that BJM sat with her, in the vehicle, so that she could leave, right after the bus picked her up. Buses are usually fairly timely, within five minutes or so, when there's no bad weather.

BJM raising the kids/grandkids. I do not think that BJM killed her family, but, I do think someone knew she'd find them, and had feelings for CR1, thereby covering CR1, and locking the doors to that trailer, and FR's home. They knew she'd be by there early that morning, but they probably didn't know about the hidden key. I don't care which trailer she went into first, or which friend followed her inside, but LE probably would. We are talking that morning, within just minutes, after LE got there, you know they began taking her statement, and those of the friends. One friend stayed outside while she went into FR's. There were two, actual, witnesses. Completely incubated from the press, I might add, but surely they remembered which one of them followed her inside FR's trailer, and which stayed outside. Also, you know that all of them have spoken about that day many times. It's different than one person, coming upon eight people, murdered, in one home. Fwiw, DS seems to have been shunned, by most all, though... His accountings must not gee and haw for folks.

The Ms got vehicles from CR1, and BJM, got a place to live, but it seems they paid for the vehicles, and BJM worked for both CR1, and KR. BJM, honestly, has been extremely close to the Rs since before old man CRsr died. I don't think that LM took anything from CR1, either, his son may have benefited from buying a vehicle from them, and making payments to them, rather than a bank though. Yes, CR1 wanted a better life for his family, but he chose a path, that could have possibly, caused him to rub elbows, with folks, who killed him and his family. Do I think BJM had a hand in this? No. Possibly unwittingly? Yes.

LE has not offered protection to the families, or anyone else, for coming forward with information. They do not have the ability to protect anyone. This is why I have firearms in my home, and have a home plan. If I relied on the LEOs, in this county, to make it here, if I heard someone coming into my home, I'd be dead before I got the 9 dialed out. I'm guessing it's much the same there. Pike is a pretty big county, small population, sparse LEO force.

If the Ws were setting up the Ms, they did a very poor job. If the plan was as "sophisticated" as LE and the AG said it was, the Ms should be in jail, if it was a set up. I don't think the Ws are that smart. They've willingly and without much complaint, (until the big "show", when they went to AK), given LE everything they've asked. The courts didn't even give LE search warrants for the W's private homes. Only the land, and the trailers. If I were moving, and going to store anything related to a murder, it would not be in a bunch of livestock trailers, or in a barn, or sold to someone. It would be at the bottom of a river, in a burn barrel, or in a deep ravine, somewhere in the Appalachian Mountains. I'm just not feeling it with the Ws. I could be very wrong, but they just don't seem smart enough to pull this off.

I've had about 4-5 pet theories over the past two years, that I still hang onto , and they change places, with the wind, but the Ws, although in the list, have just never held a spot above four. They just don't have it, I don't think. In the link below, you can even see that even LM is pushing the "slapping" incident, which is not even in my top five. I don't know for sure if LM knows anything useful or not as he's thrown out 2-3 different theories that we've all discussed here, but, I do think that both the R and M, families, do know more than they are willing to share. That it was an isolated incident b/c CR1, KR, and likely GR, had gotten mixed up in something bad, that got them all killed, and they now don't want their families killed. In other words, they took a risk, and it turned out very bad. The assailant(s) won't be coming for anyone else.

(1)

Just some thoughts this morning.


(1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nth-murders-denies-family-involved-drugs.html

I totally agree with your post, but am still on the fence about BJM as I feel she may have know something was going to go down.

 

[goofyone]

Autopsy Results.
Murders April 22nd. Have no choice but to assume everything happened after midnight. ALTHOUGH - if the crime scene people took the body temperature at the scene, we would have a far better idea of how this went down. At least some order of the murders. Maybe started on Apr. 21st??? So, I'm just going by the TOD and date listed in the article about death certs. In and around 8 AM on the 22nd.

There are so many things I find crazy about the autopsies. Like, the ME says they all have "bags on their hands", yet, obviously takes them off to describe the nail length, nail fungus and even callouses on one of the family.
Oh, I don't know. Let's see. Wouldn't crime people go over the bodies for evidence BEFORE the autopsy? Like, cut fingernails to the quick for trace evidence underneath, etc. BEFORE the ME takes off bags? Would seem like a defense attorney's dream to claim shoddy lab and crime investigation contamination/planting of evidence.
At any rate. There's just a lot of stuff in the results if you go thru them. It may not come right out and say, but, some things you can get an idea of.
Again, lemme know if this has been discussed, or, if it's irrelevant. Or, maybe tired of discussing.
I'm finding it interesting. Some stuff with stomach contents, etc. Someone already mentioned the toe tag on HG and the BCI # given. Frankie R had the same thing on his toe tag. Also, HG was the only one reported that her "face, anterior torso and upper extremities covered with dried blood". Like there wasn't A LOT of dried blood on the rest???
Just little things.

my thought in this is she was the only one directly next to another victim

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rsd1200]

Here's another couple examples. Again, I'm not accusing BJM, nor anyone, at this point, but these are red flags to LEOs. Twenty minutes or so, upon arrival at the scene, is a bit different. Did she, as LM said, leave to pick him up? Were the two friends left there alone? No dogs in sight, vs. Two dogs in a recliner, on the porch, which was said, by BJM, to have struck her as odd. Those things may not seem like much to the ordinary person, but, LE usually takes them a bit more seriously.

Example 1:
According to Leonard Manley, when Bobby Jo showed up last Friday morning, the front door was locked and the dogs were nowhere to be found. (1)

She had a friend and his wife with her when she pulled into the driveway. She left her cellphone charging in the car and went up to the trailer. She turned the handle of the door and thought it was odd it was locked, she said. She also thought it was odd that Rhoden's two pit bulls were outside on the front porch, one sitting in a recliner. The animals normally stayed inside the trailer, she said.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Example 2: This is at least a :20 minute time discrepancy, and forgetting two pitbulls in a recliner, on the porch, that struck you as odd, does seem odd. Did LE think that she added that part in later? I can see why LE was so interested in them. Also, unfortunately, folks do kill their families, so LE does scrutinize them.[/FONT]

"The Pike County Sheriff's wanted to ask me the same questions the BCI did,'' she said, adding that investigators seem to be fixated on when she found the bodies. They said it was earlier, Bobby Jo says. But she said, she went there around 7 a.m. (1)

Manley got up about 6:10 a.m. to wake her 15-year-old daughter by 6:30 a.m. and get her on the bus to school by 7. Then -- as she did most every weekday morning -- she drove over to the trailer of Christopher Rhoden, Sr., 40, to feed his dogs and chickens. Rhoden was her brother-in-law. (2) (She also picked up her two friends which added on a few minutes, to her arrival time.)


(1) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...enge-our-hearts-pike-co-family-says/83517330/

(2) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...unty-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

 

[rsd1200]

Awesome post!

(1) I so agree that LE would have had that text message early on in the case and especially if JW willingly gave up his phone (which it sounds like he did). I don't know if JM balked at giving up his phone, but LE certainly didn't hesitate in impounding his truck as evidence, IIRC. JW completely denied the text. JM said nothing public at all. Certainly you are well within your legal rights to deny giving LE your cell phone, but the minute you refuse LE is going to say "you are not cooperating with the investigation."

(2) Regarding your last sentence "I've never seen the two families come together in a plea for info from the public, either." LM's t-shirt from JM's hearing read "Justice for Gilley and Rhodens." Did the W's ever do a public plea for the killers to be found before they moved to Alaska? Have the Gilleys ever made a public statement for justice for HHG? To me, it seemed LM very much suspected the W's, but again he is the only one I recall stating the information about the contentious custody battle on public record. If the text is legit, then my suspicion lies there. In fact, I believe if legit and depending on the context, it could have been much more damning for JW than JM, but since LE pussy-footed around searching the W's property until after they left for Alaska, JM was left holding the bag, and a very tiny bag it was.

Link for the hearing and LM and AM are seen at the end of this very short hearing: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/05/22/rhoden-evidence-tampering-court-today/102003386/

BBM

I'm sorry Boots, I didn't really word that right, I was thinking of the two, or three, families, coming together, and standing in unity, on the courthouse steps, until they got media coverage. If it took going every Saturday at 9 a.m.,and marching at the courthouse, or the AG's office, or marching in front of LE's office, it might just get them some media attention, outside of Pike County, and maybe even outside of Ohio. It was just something I thought about that could have been peaceful and proactive.

 

[pepper 34]

"The suit alleges that from January 2010 through December 2016, McKesson distributed 18,434,834 doses of prescription opioids in Floyd County alone, amounting to 477 opioid pills for every person living in the county."

I don't know how this could happen "legally" without knowledge, cooperation and perhaps benefit of certain people in high places. I just don't know enough history of the area to know which came first... "the chicken or the egg." I'm also not sure how all the illegal drug business can go on without that same cooperation and benefit of certain people in high places, as well. In the middle of it all are these 8 people who's lives were taken and I just hope this theory of people in high places doesn't prevent their murderers from being exposed and punished. I hope also that I can say this without causing trouble over TOS.