OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[almond]

I still have a home and a commercial fishing boat up there. Go back every summer. I know the house. Everybody knows everybody. And their business as well.

Hi Charlie, Can you tell us if you've met any of the W's? If so, your impression of them?

 

[molly1255]

Agreed. You can also go back to one of the early aerial videos and see LE beginning to search JM’s truck. At least that what it appears to be. Something made JM appear on their radar immediately. I dont know if it was his reaction or lack there of or something he said, but something made LE’s ears and eyes perk about about JM. I don’t believe JM was directly involved, I lean towards he was unknowingly indirectly involved.

I don't see JM as having been knowingly directly involved with the murders, either. But there was something about JM and/or his truck that caught LE's attention immediately. I wish we knew what it was. LE has been very interested in not one, but two of JM's trucks to date, that we know of.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I don't see JM as having been knowingly directly involved with the murders, either. But there was something about JM and/or his truck that caught LE's attention immediately. I wish we knew what it was. LE has been very interested in not one, but two of JM's trucks to date, that we know of.

Part of me thinks the red truck was put in his possession to frame him. But then, I still don’t understand the interest in the truck he was driving the day the victims were found.

Another thing I was thinking or more like wondering is if anyone found it odd that DR’s car was home that morning? Since she worked first shift starting at 7 am, IIRC, her vehicle should have been gone from the driveway long before BJM came down UHR and the same with JM. Thats made me believe that when JM pulled in her driveway and saw DR’s car home, he was already suspecting something wasn’t right. Then when he opened the door and heard the baby crying, his suspicions were confirmed. If I’m wrong about her working 1st shift normally, then just disregard this post.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I haven’t posted in a while and also haven’t been keeping up on here. Has anyone here noticed in the redacted autopsy reports that all of the females and Chris Jr had congested and purple thyroids while the men’s were described as tan or light brown? Does that indicate anything?

I wouldn’t put much weight into that. All victims were shot in the head and with the thyroid being in the neck, it’s a safe bet it’s due to lack of oxygen and how each person was positioned after death. Depending on if someone is laying on their side, back or belly, blood will pool towards gravity. On the side or belly down, the thyroid would most likely attract and collect more fluid and coagulated blood because it’s would be at the lowest point of gravity in the head/neck region. Where as the thyroid of someone laying on their back would be at the highest point of gravity causing blood and fluids to pull away from that area. Even then, we don’t know a time frame of when the bodies were moved onto their backs (if they weren’t already in their backs) and into body bags. Each victim then sat in the coroners office for at least 1 day before they were examined, with the final autopsy being 2 days later. IMO, the thyroid notations are not related to the direct manner of death but more the likely a result of the natural process of death and/or the head and neck trauma.

 

[rsd1200]

I still don’t believe he took a sock off the baby’s foot. I said it before and another poster shot me down (which is okay! We all have our opinions and thoughts, that’s what makes ws great!) and said because it was Appalachia and poverty stricken, the hospital wouldn’t have used the swaddler that most hospitals do now. I just beg to differ because hospitals, whether they are in a poverty stricken area or in an affluent area, still have to adhere to safety standards. One of those standards being the safety of newborn babies because of hospital kidnappings. Hospitals also have to use a 2 system identifier and with newborns it’s the bracelets on their ankles and the swaddler zipper blankets that have a barcode on them. I’ve also seen a picture of Dana holding Baby K and the baby appears to be in a hospital swaddler. They look much like blankets but have the hospital logo on them and zip up. The hospitals don’t allow newborns to wear personal clothes except for hospital photos and right before they are discharged. The last thing they wear are socks because of the bands around their ankles along with getting the PKU test, which is in the foot and other poke tests of the heal. Anyways, JW may have looked for a hammer toe but I’m 95% certain he didn’t remove a sock to do so.

I’ve heard about an upset at the hospital, but again it’s never been put in MSM so it leaves us wondering.

That may have been me. I'm a fairly recent grandparent, again, and they weren't used down my way, when this last one was born, whose dob is within just a few weeks of K's. I'd have noticed, I was in there for the entire thing (my presence was requested). The hospital that my grandchild was born in, is a pretty decent hospital, too, but, I doubt it is in the top 10 in the state. They didn't have the swaddlers, but, they did put the little band on my grandbaby's ankle, and Momma had on a band around her wrist. The nurse would scan each of their bands, if they had to take the baby out of the room, and upon bringing it back into the room.

I think they also use the bands for scanning in charges, to each patient, to the appropriate account. They slapped that band on as my grandchild was exiting the womb, immediately scanned the little fella into the system, and charge Momma, to put her naked newborn, (unless you count the band), on her bare breast. It's called skin-to-skin bonding, and, basically, they're charging mothers for the first time they hold their baby. Sorry for that little rant... charging people, for plopping their newborn onto their chest, just annoys me.

 

[rsd1200]

Part of me thinks the red truck was put in his possession to frame him. But then, I still don’t understand the interest in the truck he was driving the day the victims were found.

Another thing I was thinking or more like wondering is if anyone found it odd that DR’s car was home that morning? Since she worked first shift starting at 7 am, IIRC, her vehicle should have been gone from the driveway long before BJM came down UHR and the same with JM. Thats made me believe that when JM pulled in her driveway and saw DR’s car home, he was already suspecting something wasn’t right. Then when he opened the door and heard the baby crying, his suspicions were confirmed. If I’m wrong about her working 1st shift normally, then just disregard this post.

Then again, DR had 14 vehicles in her name. In detailing the vehicles and readying them for the sales lot, she may have driven a different one fairly regularly. I remember her posting about her and her friend detailing cars at the car wash. Just a thought. CR2's vehicle was said to be up on a jack at CR1 place. There were so many cars to drive, it was probably normal for a different one to be in the driveways.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

That may have been me. I'm a fairly recent grandparent, again, and they weren't used down my way, when this last one was born, whose dob is within just a few weeks of K's. I'd have noticed, I was in there for the entire thing (my presence was requested). The hospital that my grandchild was born in, is a pretty decent hospital, too, but, I doubt it is in the top 10 in the state. They didn't have the swaddlers, but, they did put the little band on my grandbaby's ankle, and Momma had on a band around her wrist. The nurse would scan each of their bands, if they had to take the baby out of the room, and upon bringing it back into the room.

I think they also use the bands for scanning in charges, to each patient, to the appropriate account. They slapped that band on as my grandchild was exiting the womb, immediately scanned the little fella into the system, and charge Momma, to put her naked newborn, (unless you count the band), on her bare breast. It's called skin-to-skin bonding, and, basically, they're charging mothers for the first time they hold their baby. Sorry for that little rant... charging people, for plopping their newborn onto their chest, just annoys me.

Lol no it wasn’t you, but it’s okay either way. I like different inputs and thoughts etc. I have the pic saved showing K in what appears to be a swaddler but I don’t want to post it because of her being a minor. I was astonished when I saw there was a fee for skin to skin contact. Working for a hospital, I cannot understand how they even find that chargeable and then provoders wonder why healthcare costs are thru the roof. Totally different subject, but I’m with ya and your rant is well deserved.

The swaddler just started in this area in the last two years-two and half years or so. They’re actually pretty neat. If what I’m seeing in the pic isn’t a swaddler, I still have my doubts about socks being on baby K’s feet. Who knows, I’ve been wrong a lot in my life and I’m sure there’s many more times to come. This may be one of those times.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Then again, DR had 14 vehicles in her name. In detailing the vehicles and readying them for the sales lot, she may have driven a different one fairly regularly. I remember her posting about her and her friend detailing cars at the car wash. Just a thought. CR2's vehicle was said to be up on a jack at CR1 place. There were so many cars to drive, it was probably normal for a different one to be in the driveways.

Ahh yes, I should’ve thought of that. Great point, thank you! I remember seeing jr’s car on the arial video. I may have a screen grab where it looks like it’s on a jack.

Have you ever considered that one of their own vehicles may have been used to go from house to house? If the killer(s) started at Sr’s house, I’ve wondered if maybe they drove one of his vehicles to Dana’s. And then drove it back to Sr’s.

 

[rsd1200]

Ahh yes, I should’ve thought of that. Great point, thank you! I remember seeing jr’s car on the arial video. I may have a screen grab where it looks like it’s on a jack.

Have you ever considered that one of their own vehicles may have been used to go from house to house? If the killer(s) started at Sr’s house, I’ve wondered if maybe they drove one of his vehicles to Dana’s. And then drove it back to Sr’s.

Yes, I've wondered if it were KR's. If he were killed first, his pockets emptied to gain his keys, and then his vehicle uses so as not to alert others to a strange vehicle in the drive, or, if there was another vehicle in the drive, with KR's vehicle there, no one would think much of the second one.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I still have a home and a commercial fishing boat up there. Go back every summer. I know the house. Everybody knows everybody. And their business as well.

BBM

I have visited Alaska and the Kenai and I know the people there are very friendly and with all the publicity surrounding the W's I am sure the good people in AK are keeping a wary eye on them. I know I would if they moved here.

As far as that goes LE has publicly focused on solely the W's. No one else has been named or even implied as being focused on. I believe the only reason JM was pulled in or the GPS thing was done is because of his association with JW through a text message that night.

LE went as far as posting the W's pictures in MSM and alerted the entire world that they are focused on them for this crime. That was a huge step that stopped just short of naming them POI's. I believe that was done so they could obtain the public's help in keeping an eye on them. I believe they stopped just short of naming them POI's because of the elder W's money and influence and the fear of a lawsuit against them.

Let's just hope they get the evidence they need for an arrest and that the people in the beautiful Kenai stay safe.

It is worth pointing out that LE did not just post JW's picture, they posted the entire family's indicating they believe that all four of them are responsible for the murders. LE doesn't post up near mugshots or photos of a suspects mom, dad and brother unless they believe they were all involved.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I see your point, and, agree, that it is valid, but, if the Ws did this, they'd almost have to be a family of psychopaths, a study of nature vs. nurture. It would take a whole lot to go from being an avid hunter, shooting deer, and hunting wild boar, to being able to murder the teenage mother of your grandchild, while she is sleeping next to her newborn infant. Shooting her repeatedly, at close range. Not only doing it to her, but having the ability to repeat that, seven more times. I've had to assist with putting down animals, and I'm gonna tell ya, I've got a strong stomach, but it ain't easy. Shooting a human, at close range? Over and over? Just think, a young girl, with her newborn beside her? That is a cold-blooded act. Whoever did this is a different kind of species.

BBM

It has been posted repeatedly on here about "creek justice" (I think that was the terminology used). Do you think the families that participate in this kind of behavior are all a "family of psychopaths"?

How about the Hatfield's and MCCoy's to name a famous feud that ended in multiple people in one family being murdered? Would they also be perceived as an entire family of psychopaths?

Maybe from our perspectives we would be shocked that an entire family could be involved in the murder of another entire family. But it has happened. There are some pretty famous examples of it.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

It has been posted repeatedly on here about "creek justice" (I think that was the terminology used). Do you think the families that participate in this kind of behavior are all a "family of psychopaths"?

How about the Hatfield's and MCCoy's to name a famous feud that ended in multiple people in one family being murdered? Would they also be perceived as an entire family of psychopaths?

Maybe from our perspectives we would be shocked that an entire family could be involved in the murder of another entire family. But it has happened. There are some pretty famous examples of it.

JMO

Oh yes, creek justice, mountain justice, is a thing. Happened in my inlaw's family just a few years back. Their kin will now spend the rest of their lives in prison. Ripped the family apart. If it comes out, that the Rs have done something, in the eyes of the assailant(s), as unforgivable (hurt a child, possibly sold drugs to another's family member, and that family member died, or something similar) then yes, I'd go with mountain justice, and have not ruled that out. However, no, they'd not have to be psychopaths. It would be more like taking the law into their own hands. Retribution.

However, we've not heard that the Rs have done anything like that. For those who believe this to be about custody, that's not what I'd call a reason for creek justice. To murder eight people, only because you don't want to go in front of a court, and hammer out custody agreement, or because you want to run off to another state and take your child/grandchild, that's purely about self, and, would be closer to psychopathy. IANADr, but psychopaths have a grand sense of self-worth, no remorse, no care for others feelings. They want what they want and go after it, not caring about the feelings, or fall-out, they leave behind.

If this is about hard drugs, then that's a risk of getting into illegal drug sales, and that culture. You'll rub elbows with some very sketchy folks. Folks that look, and talk, one way, but are something completely different underneath. They're chameleons. Harsh, but true. Are they psychopaths? Very well could be. Psychopaths are in every walk of life. They are cut throat and do end up in leadership positions, quite often. They don't always kill, either, but if they have to, they don't feel badly about doing so. I do feel that this could have had something to do with drugs (not necessarily weed, though).

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Oh yes, creek justice, mountain justice, is a thing. Happened in my inlaw's family just a few years back. Their kin will now spend the rest of their lives in prison. Ripped the family apart. If it comes out, that the Rs have done something, in the eyes of the assailant(s), as unforgivable (hurt a child, possibly sold drugs to another's family member, and that family member died, or something similar) then yes, I'd go with mountain justice, and have not ruled that out. However, no, they'd not have to be psychopaths. It would be more like taking the law into their own hands. Retribution.

However, we've not heard that the Rs have done anything like that. For those who believe this to be about custody, that's not what I'd call a reason for creek justice. To murder eight people, only because you don't want to go in front of a court, and hammer out custody agreement, or because you want to run off to another state and take your child/grandchild, that's purely about self, and, would be closer to psychopathy. IANADr, but psychopaths have a grand sense of self-worth, no remorse, no care for others feelings. They want what they want and go after it, not caring about the feelings, or fall-out, they leave behind.

If this is about hard drugs, then that's a risk of getting into illegal drug sales, and that culture. You'll rub elbows with some very sketchy folks. Folks that look, and talk, one way, but are something completely different underneath. They're chameleons. Harsh, but true. Are they psychopaths? Very well could be. Psychopaths are in every walk of life. They are cut throat and do end up in leadership positions, quite often. They don't always kill, either, but if they have to, they don't feel badly about doing so. I do feel that this could have had something to do with drugs (not necessarily weed, though).

Is it possible it’s a combination of the two, drugs and custody? I’m in no way saying that either the W’s OR the R’s were involved in distribution of hard drugs. But I’m curious what kind of dirty laundry could’ve been aired in custody court, by either side. After all, if they were such great friends as only AW has stated, it’s easy to assume these two families could have known secrets about each other and/or been in an underground business together. It’s something I’ve questioned and wonder about. And that’s me taking weed out of the picture because just from my own observations, what the R’s were growing may have seemed large scale to LE but in reality, probably wasn’t much more than for personal and family use. Maybe a little was sold for some profit but nothing to write home about. Also, HMR was living at a new home with her mother where there was no marijuana being grown. CR & DR were divorced so by all accounts in the courts eyes, HMR would’ve been providing a safe, healthy living arrangement for S.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Oh yes, creek justice, mountain justice, is a thing. Happened in my inlaw's family just a few years back. Their kin will now spend the rest of their lives in prison. Ripped the family apart. If it comes out, that the Rs have done something, in the eyes of the assailant(s), as unforgivable (hurt a child, possibly sold drugs to another's family member, and that family member died, or something similar) then yes, I'd go with mountain justice, and have not ruled that out. However, no, they'd not have to be psychopaths. If it comes out, that the Rs have done something, in the eyes of the assailant(s), as unforgivable

However, we've not heard that the Rs have done anything like that. For those who believe this to be about custody, that's not what I'd call a reason for creek justice. To murder eight people, only because you don't want to go in front of a court, and hammer out custody agreement, or because you want to run off to another state and take your child/grandchild, that's purely about self, and, would be closer to psychopathy. IANADr, but psychopaths have a grand sense of self-worth, no remorse, no care for others feelings. They want what they want and go after it, not caring about the feelings, or fall-out, they leave behind.

If this is about hard drugs, then that's a risk of getting into illegal drug sales, and that culture. You'll rub elbows with some very sketchy folks. Folks that look, and talk, one way, but are something completely different underneath. They're chameleons. Harsh, but true. Are they psychopaths? Very well could be. Psychopaths are in every walk of life. They are cut throat and do end up in leadership positions, quite often. They don't always kill, either, but if they have to, they don't feel badly about doing so. I do feel that this could have had something to do with drugs (not necessarily weed, though).

BBM

If it comes out, that the Rs have done something, in the eyes of the assailant(s), as unforgivable

If I recall correctly the Hatfield-McCoy feud started over a pig. Or the pig was trigger. I personally believe it started during the Civil war when members of each family were on opposing sides and resentment built up over a number of years until it escalated into killing. If I recall my history correctly Anse Hatfield and Randolph McCoy were reputed to be on friendly terms at one time.

Something of this nature could have very well happened between the W's and R's with a very small issue being the trigger.

It would be more like taking the law into their own hands. Retribution.

This could very well fit the circumstances between the two families.

They want what they want and go after it, not caring about the feelings, or fall-out, they leave behind.

Sounds like a lot of ex-spouses.

JMO

 

[Dudly]

I don't see JM as having been knowingly directly involved with the murders, either. But there was something about JM and/or his truck that caught LE's attention immediately. I wish we knew what it was. LE has been very interested in not one, but two of JM's trucks to date, that we know of.

It had illegal plates on it and they towed it....

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM

If it comes out, that the Rs have done something, in the eyes of the assailant(s), as unforgivable

If I recall correctly the Hatfield-McCoy feud started over a pig. Or the pig was trigger. I personally believe it started during the Civil war when members of each family were on opposing sides and resentment built up over a number of years until it escalated into killing. If I recall my history correctly Anse Hatfield and Randolph McCoy were reputed to be on friendly terms at one time.

Something of this nature could have very well happened between the W's and R's with a very small issue being the trigger.

It would be more like taking the law into their own hands. Retribution.

This could very well fit the circumstances between the two families.

They want what they want and go after it, not caring about the feelings, or fall-out, they leave behind.

Sounds like a lot of ex-spouses.

JMO

As an aside, when these families engage in this kind of behavior they do not see themselves as psychopaths, they see themselves at war with any killing justified because the other family is the enemy.

I can well see the W's believing they were at war with the R's so by their thinking they were justified in killing their enemies.
JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It had illegal plates on it and they towed it....

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong, but it seems to me that illegal plates is a trivial thing compared to 8 homicide victims. IMO, they found a reason to keep that truck and it could’ve been nothing at all except something LE decided to take a further look at that day.

ETA-I’m not saying JM is guilty of anything or that LE thinks he is. I just feel like maybe the truck was in DR’s name or something made LE want to look it over just to cover their bases.

 

[Nickandnora]

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong, but it seems to me that illegal plates is a trivial thing compared to 8 homicide victims. IMO, they found a reason to keep that truck and it could’ve been nothing at all except something LE decided to take a further look at that day.

ETA-I’m not saying JM is guilty of anything or that LE thinks he is. I just feel like maybe the truck was in DR’s name or something made LE want to look it over just to cover their bases.

I agree,JM's truck had some significance to LE that morning as LE was all over it. There were a many as 10 of them at times looking it over. I had CNN on that morning. They stayed on the scene until approximately 12pm then regularly updated from the scene through out the day. LM spoke to a reporter saying he had gave LE one hr to release the truck or he would be talking. LM was very agitated about the truck, needless to say the truck was towed, and we never heard what he had to say.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I agree,JM's truck had some significance to LE that morning as LE was all over it. There were a many as 10 of them at times looking it over. I had CNN on that morning. They stayed on the scene until approximately 12pm then regularly updated from the scene through out the day. LM spoke to a reporter saying he had gave LE one hr to release the truck or he would be talking. LM was very agitated about the truck, needless to say the truck was towed, and we never heard what he had to say.

I saw the same on CNN. I just cannot see LE giving a man a hard time about license plate when he had just tragically lost a sister, 2 nephews, a niece, a future niece, an ex brother in law and extended in laws in a mass murder. LE didn’t keep BJM’s vehicle and she ran right up in the crime scenes, lifting a cover off of Sr. and carrying a blood covered baby out. I really wonder if the truck was perhaps in Dana’s name and maybe that’s why they kept it. Kinda like dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.

 

[molly1255]

BBM

It has been posted repeatedly on here about "creek justice" (I think that was the terminology used). Do you think the families that participate in this kind of behavior are all a "family of psychopaths"?

How about the Hatfield's and MCCoy's to name a famous feud that ended in multiple people in one family being murdered? Would they also be perceived as an entire family of psychopaths?

Maybe from our perspectives we would be shocked that an entire family could be involved in the murder of another entire family. But it has happened. There are some pretty famous examples of it.

JMO

Just speaking in general terms, I have a hard time believing an entire family could be psychopaths. I do see how one or more psychopathic extremely manipulative people in a family could convince others to do things they normally wouldn't do.

I think we could multiply the ability to influence many times over if the highly manipulative person is a parent who has not allowed their adult children to live their own lives, separate from them.

My uncle never moved out of my grandfather's home. I loved my grandfather but I also know that he loved the power he had over my uncle and he was never willing to give that up. If my grandfather had told my adult uncle that he wanted him to jump off a roof and to make sure he landed on his head, because it was the right thing for him to do, I think at first my uncle would have tried to reason with him and go over the consequences of such an act. With enough badgering on the subject, my uncle may have ended up doing exactly what he was told to do, if for any reason, to make my grandfather happy for once and for all, and to get him off his back!