UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[rsd1200]

No, its not like military or LE experience is in the job description, in this case its possible.

Sometimes it's easy to get tunnel vision, where we get an idea of who the suspects are and try to make the evidence fit the persons we suspect. Part of being a good websleuth is second-guessing ourselves.

JMO, the past history of ongoing corruption in LE and the criminal justice system in the area WRT drug trafficking, officer involved shootings and associated crimes, the possibility is there.

Four Pike County deputies run afoul of the law in recent years

Four Pike County deputies run afoul of the law in recent years

Police, prosecutor refute rumors in Spike show

Police, prosecutor refute rumors in Spike show

I'm still keeping an open mind about the killers being all local hill folk who just did some target practice to get ready for the murders, but I'm still leaning towards people who had some experience and had done this before.

One of my theories involves LE, but don't underestimate the locals. They probably won't need target practice.

 

[rsd1200]

The dogs and the babies are such an important piece to solving this.

Who would want the babies and dogs left unharmed?

The hamburger ball theory: this would take a lot of effort to plan and carry out successfully. More than 20 dogs in four different locations, and if only one dog wasn’t tranquilized it would bark and ruin their plan.

Surely the victims would have noticed if none of their dogs came to greet them when they came home because they were passed out from tranquilizers.

The dogs caused them no problem, and there's no coming back from being a baby killer. They are innocent, and they can't talk. I see CR2 as a child, but they didn't, or maybe he was supposed to be gone that night, but he wasn't.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

You are correct. Those specific words weren't used. If semantics are an issue for some, how about we compromise on saying "experienced". It's a logical assumption that they had some sort of prior experience and, probably, training, JMO.

As for AW, I can't get on board that train yet. Her military experience, IIRC, was non-combat and 20+ years ago. I don't think the Air Force was training everyone in urban warfare back then. I could be wrong.

Why is it difficult for some to accept, especially considering the extent of heavy drug trafficking in the region and links between local bigwigs and other drug trafficking organizations in the region, that someone wouldn't have some experienced hit teams available for this kind of work? Sadly, hit teams are common in other areas, especially nearby urban areas, why would Pike County be an exception? What makes Pike County different?

BBM

Her military experience, IIRC, was non-combat and 20+ years ago. I don't think the Air Force was training everyone in urban warfare back then. I could be wrong.

20 years ago was 1998. The military has been actively training in urban warfare since before Desert Storm.

We don't know AW's duties in the AF. She could have been a specialist in planning raids. I forget what they call them but they do nothing but sit around and plan war games. The woman who brought down Bin Laden was one of those I think. She was not involved in the actual operation and never left the US but she found him and planned the raid that resulted in his death.

What makes Pike County different?

I don't think Pike County is different. I think the R murders were.

According to that article posted on here a few pages back the killers of Curtis and Jenny were just some local thugs with no prior experience. But yet they entered the home and killed both in their sleep and have still not been charged with that crime. In the Porter murders it was family with prior B&E experience who entered the home without waking up the couple, not professional killers.

A close friend or family member with some prior B&E/home invasion experience could have gotten into those homes fairly easy. The dogs knew them, they knew the inside of the homes, they knew the family habits ect. No professional killers could have known all that.

Everyone involved has said it was someone close to the family. LM said it had to be someone who knew the dogs, Reader said it had to be someone local who knew the properties and victims, DeWine said it had to be someone who was familiar with the properties, KR2 said it had to be someone who knew the family.

No one close to the family or the investigation has ever said it was a professional hitman. Just the opposite in fact, they have said it was locals who were very familiar and very close to the the family.

Some of those home invasion people can enter your home and steal everything in it while you are asleep in your bed. The first you know about it is when you wake up to an empty house.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

One of my theories involves LE, but don't underestimate the locals. They probably won't need target practice.

It could have been a combination of both. Maybe whomever killed Curtis Francis and Jennifer Burgette and the Newsomes (all similar MO's) decided they needed help if they were going to take on a massacre of 8 members of the Rhoden family. It was a very big, dangerous operation with a lot of risks. If CR1 was talking to someone or had become a threat to others (besides the W custody battle) there may have been some pros who also wanted them dead. It may not have been local Pike Co LE, it could have been someone from another force who was involved in the local drug trafficking biz.

 

[rsd1200]

It could have been a combination of both. Maybe whomever killed Curtis Francis and Jennifer Burgette and the Newsomes (all similar MO's) decided they needed help if they were going to take on a massacre of 8 members of the Rhoden family. It was a very big, dangerous operation with a lot of risks. If CR1 was talking to someone or had become a threat to others (besides the W custody battle) there may have been some pros who also wanted them dead. It may not have been local Pike Co LE, it could have been someone from another force who was involved in the local drug trafficking biz.

I don't know if your description of pro and mine are the same, but I hear what you're saying.

 

[Betty P]

BBM

Her military experience, IIRC, was non-combat and 20+ years ago. I don't think the Air Force was training everyone in urban warfare back then. I could be wrong.

20 years ago was 1998. The military has been actively training in urban warfare since before Desert Storm.

We don't know AW's duties in the AF. She could have been a specialist in planning raids. I forget what they call them but they do nothing but sit around and plan war games. The woman who brought down Bin Laden was one of those I think. She was not involved in the actual operation and never left the US but she found him and planned the raid that resulted in his death.

What makes Pike County different?

I don't think Pike County is different. I think the R murders were.

According to that article posted on here a few pages back the killers of Curtis and Jenny were just some local thugs with no prior experience. But yet they entered the home and killed both in their sleep and have still not been charged with that crime. In the Porter murders it was family with prior B&E experience who entered the home without waking up the couple, not professional killers.

A close friend or family member with some prior B&E/home invasion experience could have gotten into those homes fairly easy. The dogs knew them, they knew the inside of the homes, they knew the family habits ect. No professional killers could have known all that.

Everyone involved has said it was someone close to the family. LM said it had to be someone who knew the dogs, Reader said it had to be someone local who knew the properties and victims, DeWine said it had to be someone who was familiar with the properties, KR2 said it had to be someone who knew the family.

No one close to the family or the investigation has ever said it was a professional hitman. Just the opposite in fact, they have said it was locals who were very familiar and very close to the the family.

Some of those home invasion people can enter your home and steal everything in it while you are asleep in your bed. The first you know about it is when you wake up to an empty house.

JMO

Re the locals who killed Curtis and Jenny, why were they never arrested? Why is that a cold case, when people who were there that night or saw them afterwards were willing to testify to their involvement?

Not saying they weren't involved in some way, but why were they let off? Why did the reporter who wrote the investigative news story lose his job shortly after?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
This.

We've gone over the dogs a billion times, but even if the dogs knew them, they still might bark. My dogs have known some of my friends and relatives since puppyhood and bark to high Heaven when they pull in. My s/o tells me, that mine start barking, excitedly, before I even reach our drive, they are that attuned to my vehicle. Also, folks who know dogs, in the sense that they are good with them, usually don't have much problem with them. One last thing, sometimes you can have such barky dogs, that you forget to pay attention to them...

One thing I would like to say about that. I am not an expert on dogs, although I have owned my fair share of them over time, and I know every dog is different. My dogs (four) are inside dogs. If they are outside when my family or friends come to visit, they will at first bark normally. But when they see who it is the begin a yelping kind of bark. A yap if you want to call it that. All four (a boxer/Boston terrier mix, a min pin, a cherwinnie and a chihuahua) does it. We had an Irish setter and a fox terrier that did the same thing. In fact we only owned one dog that did not, a chihuahua/weltie mix.

Our dogs sleep in the bed with us under the covers. Granted I have a large house, but if someone comes in downstairs while we are upstairs in bed, they don't bark at all unless that someone comes upstairs to our bedroom. Then they usually growl or bark a couple of times. As soon as they recognize the footsteps on the staircase they start the yapping thing. This has happened a few times as my son and grandsons have a spare key and the grandsons have had occasion to need a place to sleep for a night or two (especially when the oldest one's wife kicks him out after an argument).

My point with all this is, that if it was family or someone who had been in the homes a lot, the dogs may have barked a few times but when they saw who it was the began that yapping thing mine does. If the R's were used to someone coming to their homes late at night, looking for a place to sleep they may not have paid any attention to the dogs when that bark turned into a yap indicating it was someone they knew.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I don't know if your description of pro and mine are the same, but I hear what you're saying.

Well, its probably not like they have to have a license or some certification. But, yeah, anyone who has been killing people for money, usually with the knowledge of some kind of drug and/or crime boss should be considered a pro.

I think that's one thing we need to keep in mind. With so much drug activity going on over the years in this area, there are established organizations in place in charge of trafficking. There are drug bosses who oversee the trade in this area.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It could have been a combination of both. Maybe whomever killed Curtis Francis and Jennifer Burgette and the Newsomes (all similar MO's) decided they needed help if they were going to take on a massacre of 8 members of the Rhoden family. It was a very big, dangerous operation with a lot of risks. If CR1 was talking to someone or had become a threat to others (besides the W custody battle) there may have been some pros who also wanted them dead. It may not have been local Pike Co LE, it could have been someone from another force who was involved in the local drug trafficking biz.

Hubby has always said it was LE.

When I said it had to be someone who knew them or a family member, his reply was "How do you know that the R's did not have a family member or close friend who was LE?"

Good question huh?

 

[rsd1200]

One thing I would like to say about that. I am not an expert on dogs, although I have owned my fair share of them over time, and I know every dog is different. My dogs (four) are inside dogs. If they are outside when my family or friends come to visit, they will at first bark normally. But when they see who it is the begin a yelping kind of bark. A yap if you want to call it that. All four (a boxer/Boston terrier mix, a min pin, a cherwinnie and a chihuahua) does it. We had an Irish setter and a fox terrier that did the same thing. In fact we only owned one dog that did not, a chihuahua/weltie mix.

Our dogs sleep in the bed with us under the covers. Granted I have a large house, but if someone comes in downstairs while we are upstairs in bed, they don't bark at all unless that someone comes upstairs to our bedroom. Then they usually growl or bark a couple of times. As soon as they recognize the footsteps on the staircase they start the yapping thing. This has happened a few times as my son and grandsons have a spare key and the grandsons have had occasion to need a place to sleep for a night or two (especially when the oldest one's wife kicks him out after an argument).

My point with all this is, that if it was family or someone who had been in the homes a lot, the dogs may have barked a few times but when they saw who it was the began that yapping thing mine does. If the R's were used to someone coming to their homes late at night, looking for a place to sleep they may not have paid any attention to the dogs when that bark turned into a yap indicating it was someone they knew.

JMO

Most everyone learns their dogs different types of barking, or their lack thereof. They don't always pay attention to them though. The R's place probably had a lot of traffic, friends and friends of friends, hanging out and working on vehicles, and, if the weed is true, buying weed. Dogs get used to the traffic.

They had pitts and hounds. Most pitts aren't barkers. They do the swift and silent thing. The hounds? I don't care if they are coon hounds, fox hounds, walkers, or beagles, they'll bark, it's in their dna, and they'll do it all the flippin' time, over anything. If one of them goes off, they ALL go off and they'll "sing" forEVER. I love to hear them, but maybe not 10 or 15 deep, in my backyard (although it does turn into white noise after awhile).

The only dog that stands out, to me, is Brownie. KR was off to himself. If Brownie reacted the way that DS said she/he did, when LE arrived, then I feel that KR knew his killer, and Brownie knew KR's killer too, otherwise, a stranger would not have gotten too far inside the trailer, without KR knowing someone was there, and having time to reach for protection, which KR2 said, was kept under KR's pillow.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Yes, I think when you're shooting execution style, you're trained to do so at close range, aiming at the head. They had to do it this way in order to take advantage of the element of surprise and avoid a victim escaping, fighting back or calling someone on the cell phone.

When in close proximity (killing people inside their bedroom, while they're asleep) shooting someone in the chest, stomach, etc. isn't a quick death. They can still move around, possibly grab a gun and shoot back. Because they chose to shoot these people in their sleep, in their bedrooms, they had to go for quick shots to the head or face.

Sneaking into homes and going to where the victims are sleeping to shoot them is a specific tactic these killers chose. It was probably the only option for killing that many people in 4 separate locations in the space of an hour or so.

I'm still going with lots of practice and training. Background in LE or military. I know that goes against the theories of local hillbilly justice, but LE agreed. They called them cold, calculating professional killings.

I guess the eye is just strange to me. Why not the temple? Why not the forehead? Behind the ear? If a victim is laying on their side when approached, why shoot them 5x in the face? Wouldn’t the back of the head or the temple do the same thing without leaving a victim as severely disfigured? While the victims could have been shot in all of those areas as well, shooting multiple victims in the eye stands out as odd to me. I also feel like anyone who was even somewhat professional at killing human beings would never have fired so many bullets into the victims. The more bullets fired, the more time elapsed, the more risk of being heard, etc. Even if we remove CR1 and the 9 bullets fired upon his body because he was clearly awake and either charging at or running from his killer, the next highest number of bullets were fired into Dana and HHG, with 5 shots each. That’s excessive EVEN if either victim was fighting back. It’s overkill and I feel like it’s very significant in the big picture. I don’t know what the significance is but I lean towards anger and someone who didn’t want to stop firing on those particular victims once that person pulled the trigger. JMO.

 

[almond]

Most everyone learns their dogs different types of barking, or their lack thereof. They don't always pay attention to them though. The R's place probably had a lot of traffic, friends and friends of friends, hanging out and working on vehicles, and, if the weed is true, buying weed. Dogs get used to the traffic.

They had pitts and hounds. Most pitts aren't barkers. They do the swift and silent thing. The hounds? I don't care if they are coon hounds, fox hounds, walkers, or beagles, they'll bark, it's in their dna, and they'll do it all the flippin' time, over anything. If one of them goes off, they ALL go off and they'll "sing" forEVER. I love to hear them, but maybe not 10 or 15 deep, in my backyard (although it does turn into white noise after awhile).

The only dog that stands out, to me, is Brownie. KR was off to himself. If Brownie reacted the way that DS said she/he did, when LE arrived, then I feel that KR knew his killer, and Brownie knew KR's killer too, otherwise, a stranger would not have gotten too far inside the trailer, without KR knowing someone was there, and having time to reach for protection, which KR2 said, was kept under KR's pillow.

Imo, Gary or Chris Sr. let the dogs out because someone came to the trailer. I think the dogs were also familiar with whoever it was or they could've attacked when the perps left the trailer. As for Kr, I think he had a guest that night, possibly a woman. Either she opened the door to the killer(s) or left the door unlocked when she left. I'm leaning towards Ky family, or acquaintances, or local gang members. All of it involving drugs.

 

[almond]

I guess the eye is just strange to me. Why not the temple? Why not the forehead? Behind the ear? If a victim is laying on their side when approached, why shoot them 5x in the face? Wouldn’t the back of the head or the temple do the same thing without leaving a victim as severely disfigured? While the victims could have been shot in all of those areas as well, shooting multiple victims in the eye stands out as odd to me. I also feel like anyone who was even somewhat professional at killing human beings would never have fired so many bullets into the victims. The more bullets fired, the more time elapsed, the more risk of being heard, etc. Even if we remove CR1 and the 9 bullets fired upon his body because he was clearly awake and either charging at or running from his killer, the next highest number of bullets were fired into Dana and HHG, with 5 shots each. That’s excessive EVEN if either victim was fighting back. It’s overkill and I feel like it’s very significant in the big picture. I don’t know what the significance is but I lean towards anger and someone who didn’t want to stop firing on those particular victims once that person pulled the trigger. JMO.

I agree on the overkill.

 

[almond]

The Ruby thing, has made me look harder at another theory I have. Ruby came down in his bus, on the 25th.
Cincinnati businessman Jeff Ruby offers $25K reward for info in Pike Co. killings

Then, three days later, Ruby Tweeted;

"With recent complex criminal developments in Pike Co case, we are withdrawing our reward and involvement. Grieving and praying for family."

— Jeff Ruby (@TheRealJeffRuby) April 28, 2016

The 29th:

"The savage execution of the Rhoden family was barbaric! If by cartel, my involvement puts our family in harms way pic.twitter.com/Ve2P3FnkZE"

— Jeff Ruby (@TheRealJeffRuby) April 29, 2016

This is a man who is known to do this type of thing. Something spooked him;



Meet Jeff Ruby: The story behind the provocative, outspoken restaurateur

Ruby seems like a man who isn't put off easily, so why no reward when LE has said cartel isn't involved. Who is he afraid of?

 

[IceIce9]

Ruby seems like a man who isn't put off easily, so why no reward when LE has said cartel isn't involved. Who is he afraid of?

This article contains the now deleted tweets from Ruby.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/83432754

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I guess the eye is just strange to me. Why not the temple? Why not the forehead? Behind the ear? If a victim is laying on their side when approached, why shoot them 5x in the face? Wouldn’t the back of the head or the temple do the same thing without leaving a victim as severely disfigured? While the victims could have been shot in all of those areas as well, shooting multiple victims in the eye stands out as odd to me. I also feel like anyone who was even somewhat professional at killing human beings would never have fired so many bullets into the victims. The more bullets fired, the more time elapsed, the more risk of being heard, etc. Even if we remove CR1 and the 9 bullets fired upon his body because he was clearly awake and either charging at or running from his killer, the next highest number of bullets were fired into Dana and HHG, with 5 shots each. That’s excessive EVEN if either victim was fighting back. It’s overkill and I feel like it’s very significant in the big picture. I don’t know what the significance is but I lean towards anger and someone who didn’t want to stop firing on those particular victims once that person pulled the trigger. JMO.

That stands out to me also. At first glance HHG would not really have anything to do with what CR1 was into. We can see DR as being involved as she was the ex and was getting back together with CR1 so whatever hatred was aimed at him most probably aimed at DR also.

But why HHG? Why 5 shots in her face? That stumped me for a while until I thought about the fact that she is CG's sister.

CG the father of little K. The man who was seen to take HR away. Maybe even instigated her breakup with JW. Or maybe even had an affair with him during her and JW's relationship. CG wasn't there to take the hatred and jealousy out on, so his sister was the next best thing.

HHG is what firmed up my belief it was JW and the W's. Because out of all of them she was the least connected. KR, FR, CR2 and GR were R's. HR and her parents were the primary targets. So why HHG? Would there have been as many shots fired if HHG had not been a G? If her last name had been Jones or Smith?

No I don't think HHG was a target like the R's were, I think she was pure pleasure.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Hubby has always said it was LE.

When I said it had to be someone who knew them or a family member, his reply was "How do you know that the R's did not have a family member or close friend who was LE?"

Good question huh?

I agree. We don't know that at all. This is just one instance of abuse of power, only across the state line, in my backyard. It's not just one single state or county. Fwiw, nearly 30% of the population, in Whitley County, live in poverty.

The former sheriff in Whitley County allegedly took payoffs from drug dealers and bootleggers, stole money from his office and had records falsified to cover financial shortfalls, and he is thought to have taken guns and drugs seized from suspects, according to a sworn statement filed in federal court.

In one instance, drug dealer Bennie King told a federal agent that he paid then-Sheriff Lawrence Hodge $1,000 to $1,500 a month to avoid investigation by the sheriff's office, according to the affidavit.

"King stated that in order to sell pills in Whitley County without fear of being arrested, you had to pay Sheriff Hodge," the document said.

Court document alleges ex-Whitley sheriff stole, took payoffs, falsified records

 

[almond]

This article contains the now deleted tweets from Ruby.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/83432754

Thank you, Ice. "The savage execution of the Rhoden family was barbaric! I have a feeling most were not asleep and may have been tortured.

 

[mountainmutt]

Is there any type of symbolism with shooting someone in the eye? I admit I am guilty of overthinking things, but I find it odd that 3/8 were shot in the eye. I also don’t understand why HHG would’ve been shot in the face 5x. It’s almost like these killers not only wanted to kill, but also wanted to disfigure as well.

Yes, there are at least two legendary reasons for shooting a person in the left eye 1) in demonic ritualistic killings a shot to the left eye is supposed to steal the person's soul for Satan. 2) Mafia hits used a shot to left eye for a specific meaning as well


Honestly, I don't think either of these apply in this case other than perhaps the killers had read something about the occult information.

 

[rsd1200]

Imo, Gary or Chris Sr. let the dogs out because someone came to the trailer. I think the dogs were also familiar with whoever it was or they could've attacked when the perps left the trailer. As for Kr, I think he had a guest that night, possibly a woman. Either she opened the door to the killer(s) or left the door unlocked when she left. I'm leaning towards Ky family, or acquaintances, or local gang members. All of it involving drugs.

I tend to lean your way on the dogs. CR1 could have let them out, and they just didn't get let back inside, because he was later deceased. I think KR was killed by someone who he was fairly comfortable with. I think it would be worthwhile to look at the Ky. side. Especially after the Detroit pipeline hit, with GR's mother, and step-father, arrested as a part of that. If there's a gang affiliation, then I'm leaning toward one similar to below. The members seem to mix and marry and be related ;

Sheriff Chip Reader and Pike County law enforcement say the trafficking ring was being run by Richard Smith, who is currently in a state prison. They say many of the people recently arrested are related to him or directly connected to him. Many of the suspects have ties to the Konvicted Family gang, the "Good Fellas" gang. The Sheriff says a few are confirmed members of gangs.

16 charged, more arrests likely to come in Pike County drug trafficking investigation

(Richard) Smith’s girlfriend, Chasity Gillenwater, of Pike County, allegedly also has ties to all three gangs. Smith’s wife, April Smith, is alleged to have ties to the three gangs as well, as is Brian Carter, April’s father.

Smith’s brother, Christopher Smith, as well as Christopher’s wife Jackie Smith, are alleged to have ties to the Konvicted Family Gang.

Also alleged to have ties to the Konvicted Family Gang are William Schneider, Donyiel Montgomery, Brian Lawson, Brittany Ruth, Ben Hatmacher (associate of Chasity Gillenwater), and Claudia Wicker.

David Crabtree, Jr., is alleged to have ties to MS-13 and the “Good Fellas” gang. Ashley Crabtree is allegedly married to a Konvicted Family gang member and is alleged to have ties to “Good Fellas” and MS-13. David Crabtree, Sr., is alleged to be a Konvicted Family gang member. Courtney Crabtree is the sister of an alleged Konvicted Family gang member and is believed to have ties to other Konvicted Family gang members.

Pike Sheriff names 16 suspects involved in drug trafficking ring