UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[rsd1200]

The laser focus on the Wagners and the red truck LE said was connected to the murders are the two biggest clues LE has given us to work with. Anything we come up with has to somehow jive with those two bits of information.

As near as I can tell, aside from scant information from autopsy reports, those are the only two puzzle pieces on the table. Start with those pieces and try to make the speculation and theories fit.

For instance, if LE saw the red truck on the security video from the church on UHR, what would that tell us? That the person was driving to the Rhoden homes from an area north of the church? Who lives up that way? Where do those roads go? Where does the guy live who owned the red truck at that time?

We know that's your main theory, but I've not mentioned that theory. I was replying to Mitten's question, and Rains'. Raisin's as to why I don't see anyone is at fault, other than possibly DS, for KR not being found sooner. Finding him sooner wouldn't have saved him anyway. I've made zero mention of a red truck or W's or much of anything else lately.

 

[rsd1200]

How is any of that relevant?

She asked. I provided the answer, with link. If you don't like my posts, block me.

 

[rsd1200]

How is any of that relevant? We rehash this same discussion regularly here. There's nothing we can see that is out of whack with the timeline of Manley family members tragically discovering their murdered siblings, nieces, nephews, etc.

Please remember to post a link if you think you have a discrepancy.

Apologies in advance for my cynicism. This always feels like victim bashing, to me. Just finding ways to pick apart the scarce information provided to the public from distraught family members who found their kin horribly murdered that morning. Sorry, but I find it offensive. I can't believe those family members have had their lives turned upside down and still have to live with thise kinds of accusations from strangers every day for years and years.

I have not once victim bashed and I am getting quite tired of you accusing all of us for doing so.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I agree. And I am very surprised that the man running against DeWine hasn’t used all thes unsolved murders in the governors race. There are quite a few of them.

IS ANYONE ELSE HAVING TROUBLE GETTING POSTS? And trying to post a response and it winding up as a general post?

I apologize in advance. Perhaps it’s the weather here. Hail and thunderstorms. Something is going on.

 

[Betty P]

We know that's your main theory, but I've not mentioned that theory. I was replying to Mitten's question, and Rains'. Raisin's as to why I don't see anyone is at fault, other than possibly DS, for KR not being found sooner. Finding him sooner wouldn't have saved him anyway. I've made zero mention of a red truck or W's or much of anything else lately.

It's not a theory. Those are the facts that LE has given to the public, willingly or inadvertently.

They've said the Wagners are in their laser focus. DeWine, Reader & Junk have all been quoted as saying that.

They've said the red pick up truck was used during the murders. That information was part of the search warrant and arrest of JM.

There's nothing that's been publicly presented by LE that indicates the Rhodens/Gilley were killed by their relatives. The victims' families have been put through every type of search, evidence gathering, questioning, etc. possible with no results.

Yes, LE would probably like nothing more than to blame this on a crazed family member just to get it over with. Had it been a lower profile case, they probably would have done that, maybe event sent someone wrongly accused to jail. But this case attracted too much media attention to get away with that.

So all they can do is point the finger at the W's, tell us that the red truck was involved in the murders and that they took security video from the Union Hill Church. JMO, spending time trying to find a way to blame Leonard Manley for killing his own daughter and grandkids is just helping the real killers.

 

[rsd1200]

It's not a theory. Those are the facts that LE has given to the public, willingly or inadvertently.

They've said the Wagners are in their laser focus. DeWine, Reader & Junk have all been quoted as saying that.

They've said the red pick up truck was used during the murders. That information was part of the search warrant and arrest of JM.

There's nothing that's been publicly presented by LE that indicates the Rhodens/Gilley were killed by their relatives. The victims' families have been put through every type of search, evidence gathering, questioning, etc. possible with no results.

Yes, LE would probably like nothing more than to blame this on a crazed family member just to get it over with. Had it been a lower profile case, they probably would have done that, maybe event sent someone wrongly accused to jail. But this case attracted too much media attention to get away with that.

So all they can do is point the finger at the W's, tell us that the red truck was involved in the murders and that they took security video from the Union Hill Church. JMO, spending time trying to find a way to blame Leonard Manley for killing his own daughter and grandkids is just helping the real killers.

Until they call them suspects and/or arrest them, it's theory, so we cannot call the Ws murderers. Unless TOS has changed. Don't knock my theories, and I won't knock yours. Are the Ws on my list, yep, but I've got other ones too. It's permitted. I won't be talked down to, or accused of victim bashing, for having other theories, by you, or anyone else on this thread. Period.

 

[ilovepierre]

It's not a theory. Those are the facts that LE has given to the public, willingly or inadvertently.

They've said the Wagners are in their laser focus. DeWine, Reader & Junk have all been quoted as saying that.

They've said the red pick up truck was used during the murders. That information was part of the search warrant and arrest of JM.

There's nothing that's been publicly presented by LE that indicates the Rhodens/Gilley were killed by their relatives. The victims' families have been put through every type of search, evidence gathering, questioning, etc. possible with no results.

Yes, LE would probably like nothing more than to blame this on a crazed family member just to get it over with. Had it been a lower profile case, they probably would have done that, maybe event sent someone wrongly accused to jail. But this case attracted too much media attention to get away with that.

So all they can do is point the finger at the W's, tell us that the red truck was involved in the murders and that they took security video from the Union Hill Church. JMO, spending time trying to find a way to blame Leonard Manley for killing his own daughter and grandkids is just helping the real killers.

BBM.
IIRC, they only said the red truck was used during the commission of A murder, not necessarily the Rhoden murders. Wasn't the truck in the possession of a couple of other people before the M's bought it? And wasn't a murder committed by one of those previous owners some years prior? Semantics, I know...

I understand they did put a GPS tracker on the truck after the Rhoden murders so LE obviously had good reason to do so.

IMO, LM nor BJM participated in the murders, but I strongly believe they know who committed this heinous crime and are keeping quiet due to fear or not wanting to send their loved ones to prison.

IMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The reasons I ask these questions when accusations start flying at family members are:

• to determine if there's any legit reason, after 2 yrs) to suspect family involvement
• to determine if it's just aimless victim bashing

After such a long time, everyone is frustrated with so little information and no justice or progress on the part of LE in solving these horrible crimes. It just seems wrong to turn that frustration towards the victims, the surviving family members.

There's no big pot of gold for anyone at the end of the Rhoden family probate process. No evil, deranged family member hiding in plain sight. Just a lot of terrified, weary poor people living with a horrible family tragedy, knowing that it has been swept under the rug like so many other crimes and murders.

Betty I understand that you are victim friendly. So am I. These were hard working people who did not deserve to die.

That being said, I think it is fair to question why someone did not do what any reasonable person would do. It is not victim bashing to question the actions of family members. And yes I know the family is suffering. I get that. But one thing you should think long and hard about. Family does kill family. And usually when a family member kills their family they are right up on the front row at the funeral crying just as hard as the innocent family members there.

I have seen video clips of a son who brutally slaughtered his parents sit right on the front row at their funeral crying and consoling his sisters.

I have seen video of a husband who killed his wife cry and console his kids on the loss of their mother.

I have read about a daughter who along with her boyfriend slaughtered her father and acted like it was the worst thing that ever happened to her at his funeral.

So questioning why a family member acted in an unreasonable manner after their family was killed is not unreasonable for us here on WS to be doing. After all those kind of odd reactions from family members are sometimes the way that LE solves cases.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

KR2 is not thinking that her father would be dead. She just knows her uncle is dead. I find no fault with that. Yes, companies have satellite phones but they are usually in the trucks, in case of an employee emergency. Not all companies are extremely accessible when you work out in the field, doing the type of work that KR was known to do. KR2 was only 19. KR2 has a sister who was nearly 30, and other family. I see no foul play on an entire family's part. Why didn't TR, or BR, or any of his living sisters, go by there? KR was supposed to be at work. I can drive down the road and lose signal and I have the best plan you can get, or I'd not get signal here in my home. If I don't get an immediate call back or text, I figure the person is out of range.

That is my point exactly RSD. Yes KR is young, but there were older people there. Why did not one tell her to call his company? Why did no one go by to tell him about his brothers death?

KR was working as a lineman at an electric company if my memory is correct (it's been known not to be, but I think that is what I read). Those linemen, like the people who work at the cable companies and gas companies are sent out on a particular job in a particular place. The company always knows exactly where they are and like a UPS or Postal worker, the company can always contact them. No company just turns an employee lose to go do a job on his own. Too much risk of the employee sitting in a cafe or in the car lounging the day away.

My niece works for an insurance company. She goes around to companies and inventories their assets so the insurance company knows the value of the assets they are insuring. She spends a lot of time traveling. The company gives her a cell phone but they also have a GPS tracker on the car she drives. Kind of like Lojack I think. Anyway if they need to tell her something they can get her within minutes because they always know where she or rather her car is.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Betty I understand that you are victim friendly. So am I. These were hard working people who did not deserve to die.

That being said, I think it is fair to question why someone did not do what any reasonable person would do. It is not victim bashing to question the actions of family members. And yes I know the family is suffering. I get that. But one thing you should think long and hard about. Family does kill family. And usually when a family member kills their family they are right up on the front row at the funeral crying just as hard as the innocent family members there.

I have seen video clips of a son who brutally slaughtered his parents sit right on the front row at their funeral crying and consoling his sisters.

I have seen video of a husband who killed his wife cry and console his kids on the loss of their mother.

I have read about a daughter who along with her boyfriend slaughtered her father and acted like it was the worst thing that ever happened to her at his funeral.

So questioning why a family member acted in an unreasonable manner after their family was killed is not unreasonable for us here on WS to be doing. After all those kind of odd reactions from family members are sometimes the way that LE solves cases.

JMO

If you're of the belief that family members killed the Rhodens because they haven't told LE who the killers are, here are some things to consider:

No one knows what these people have told LE. Most likely, they've told them everything they know. It's assumed the killers wiped out so many members of the family to get rid of anyone who could identify them or have enough information to share w/ LE it would result in their arrest. Ergo, it's logical to assume the ones still alive don't know enough to fully help LE solve the murders. Does it really seem logical the killers would leave a Rhoden relative alive who knew them simply because they said "hey, I promise I won't tell the police"?

JMO, it's unfair and unfounded to blame the surviving family members because LE hasn't arrested the killers yet. Take a look at some of the thousands of other murder cases in this forum and see how often people think victim's families are blamed when murder cases go cold.

If you want a good idea of why LE may not have arrested anyone yet, take some time to watch the Spike TV series that aired late last year Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio.

Amazon.com: Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio Season 1: Amazon Digital Services LLC

It reveals a lot of relevant information about how murders happen drug trafficking networks in that part of Ohio and why there are so many unsolved murder cases. The situation down there is much more complex than you might think. People in southern Ohio know that if you talk, you'll end up dead and police won't always protect you. Sometimes they may help the person who kills you.

Hint: Not all of these women died at their own hand from a drug overdose. Most are believed to have been murdered. And local LE doesn't want to talk about it. They prefer to call them suicides. It's very complicated. The underworld activity in these areas is very much controlled by LE and the local criminal justice system.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Until they call them suspects and/or arrest them, it's theory, so we cannot call the Ws murderers. Unless TOS has changed. Don't knock my theories, and I won't knock yours. Are the Ws on my list, yep, but I've got other ones too. It's permitted. I won't be talked down to, or accused of victim bashing, for having other theories, by you, or anyone else on this thread. Period.

Like it or not, we must discuss the victims. they are the key to solving this crime. Something in those 8 peoples lives got them killed. We must discuss their family members. They are an important part of solving this crime. What the family says, how they react can sometimes provide that last piece of puzzle that makes the whole picture clear. If a family member acts in a manner that would not be reasonable to other people then we have every right to discuss it because it could be very important.

That is not victim bashing, it is fact.

Everyone is entitled to their own theories and have a right to voice (or post as the case may be) them on here. That is what WS is all about, the very reason for it's existence. If everyone agreed with everyone else on here there would be no reason to post anything else.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Like it or not, we must discuss the victims. they are the key to solving this crime. Something in those 8 peoples lives got them killed. We must discuss their family members. They are an important part of solving this crime. What the family says, how they react can sometimes provide that last piece of puzzle that makes the whole picture clear. If a family member acts in a manner that would not be reasonable to other people then we have every right to discuss it because it could be very important.

That is not victim bashing, it is fact.

Everyone is entitled to their own theories and have a right to voice (or post as the case may be) them on here. That is what WS is all about, the very reason for it's existence. If everyone agreed with everyone else on here there would be no reason to post anything else.

JMO

How are the survivors key to finding the killers?

Why do you think they're keeping secrets from LE?

What makes you think they haven't told LE everything?

Why is this case so different than thousands of others in that you think it's all up to the surviving family members to solve the case and the failure of LE to arrest anyone is all the family's fault?

Family members have been questioned numerous times, given poly exams, submitted DNA, had their homes searched, etc.

What if the reason Reader keeps hassling some of them is because he doesn't want them to talk?

Why hasn't Reader hassled any of the other family members, like DS? Why have other family members gotten a complete pass from LE?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If you're of the belief that family members killed the Rhodens because they haven't told LE who the killers are, here are some things to consider:

No one knows what these people have told LE. Most likely, they've told them everything they know. It's assumed the killers wiped out so many members of the family to get rid of anyone who could identify them or have enough information to share w/ LE it would result in their arrest. Ergo, it's logical to assume the ones still alive don't know enough to fully help LE solve the murders. Does it really seem logical the killers would leave a Rhoden relative alive who knew them simply because they said "hey, I promise I won't tell the police"?

JMO, it's unfair and unfounded to blame the surviving family members because LE hasn't arrested the killers yet. Take a look at some of the thousands of other murder cases in this forum and see how often people think victim's families are blamed when murder cases go cold.

If you want a good idea of why LE may not have arrested anyone yet, take some time to watch the Spike TV series that aired late last year Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio.

Amazon.com: Gone: The Forgotten Women of Ohio Season 1: Amazon Digital Services LLC

It reveals a lot of relevant information about how murders happen drug trafficking networks in that part of Ohio and why there are so many unsolved murder cases. The situation down there is much more complex than you might think. People in southern Ohio know that if you talk, you'll end up dead and police won't always protect you. Sometimes they may help the person who kills you.

Hint: Not all of these women died at their own hand from a drug overdose. Most are believed to have been murdered. And local LE doesn't want to talk about it. They prefer to call them suicides. It's very complicated. The underworld activity in these areas is very much controlled by LE and the local criminal justice system.

BBM
Most likely, they've told them everything they know.

Betty I disagree. Reader and DeWine have both said the family is with holding information. That is one of those scant pieces of information we have gotten from LE.

Pointing out odd behavior of a family member or members is not accusing them of killing their family. I do not and never have thought that KR2 or LM or BJM killed their family nor have I ever said that. I am simply pointing out something that I think was odd. I have played around in my mind that the reason the family did not try too hard to notify KR is because they thought or suspected he may have already known because he was involved in the murders. But that is pure speculation on my part and in no way can I verify that. It's just a random thought.

Please don't jump to conclusions. Thank you.

JMO

 

[ilovepierre]

How are the survivors key to finding the killers?

Why do you think they're keeping secrets from LE?

What makes you think they haven't told LE everything?

Why is this case so different than thousands of others in that you think it's all up to the surviving family members to solve the case and the failure of LE to arrest anyone is all the family's fault?

Family members have been questioned numerous times, given poly exams, submitted DNA, had their homes searched, etc.

What if the reason Reader keeps hassling some of them is because he doesn't want them to talk?

Why hasn't Reader hassled any of the other family members, like DS? Why have other family members gotten a complete pass from LE?

BBM
They might know what happened to the Rhodens.
IMO, there are certain family members who know more than they are saying or have already said.
The M's and the W's come to mind.
LE suspects the W's as well since there has been (or still is) a "laser focus" 0n them.

I still can't help but wonder about Violet's suspicious death...did she know information and was killed because of what she may have known? If so, fear could be why no one is saying anything....even 2 years later.

IMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

How are the survivors key to finding the killers?
Why do you think they're keeping secrets from LE?
What makes you think they haven't told LE everything?

Why is this case so different than thousands of others in that you think it's all up to the surviving family members to solve the case and the failure of LE to arrest anyone is all the family's fault?

Family members have been questioned numerous times, given poly exams, submitted DNA, had their homes searched, etc.

What if the reason Reader keeps hassling some of them is because he doesn't want them to talk?

Why hasn't Reader hassled any of the other family members, like DS? Why have other family members gotten a complete pass from LE?

BBM

How are the survivors key to finding the killers?
Because family members know so much more about the lives and movements of victims than the general public does. A large percentage of the time they provide the clues that solve a murder.

Why do you think they're keeping secrets from LE?
Because Reader and DeWine said they were.

What makes you think they haven't told LE everything?
Because Reader and DeWine said they haven't. Reader even went so far as to threaten family members with arrest if they didn't tell what they knew. He said on day 1 that someone in that church knew who killed these people and why.

Why is this case so different than thousands of others in that you think it's all up to the surviving family members to solve the case and the failure of LE to arrest anyone is all the family's fault?
I think it is up to the surviving family members to be honest with LE and tell them everything they know important or not.

Family members have been questioned numerous times, given poly exams, submitted DNA, had their homes searched, etc.
I do not know of any family members homes that were searched but LM said that JM failed a polygraph. That is enough to cast suspicion on him.

Why hasn't Reader hassled any of the other family members, like DS?
We don't know that Reader has not hassled other family members. DS dropped out of sight fast enough.

JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

Betty I don't know how it is relevant, I just know it is. If a puzzle piece doesn't fit in a particular puzzle then that piece doesn't belong in that puzzle. That is the way them not notifying KR about his brothers death strikes me. It just doesn't fit. I know that they were all in shock. I know it was probably chaotic. I know they were probably talking to LE. But they notified 150 people and yet they did not notify one of the relative's brother until 6 hours later? I mean what were they thinking? "let's don't tell KR yet that his brother has been murdered, let's wait a few days and see if he notices?" "Or let's don't bother he can see it on the news?" Then his own kids don't go tell him. They send a cousin. I could see an hour later, but 6 hours?

Let's all do a poll on here and try to put it into perspective. We have all lost family members. So let's say we lose a close family member (accident, natural death, murder doesn't matter how they passed except it was an unexpected death) what do you do right after you learn about it. Lets all try to put ourselves in the R's places and be honest with what you would do. Let's see just how strange waiting 6 hours to notify a brother really is.

If it were me (and has been since I have lost close family members) the first thing I would do is start calling other family. I would start with the closest people to the deceased and branch out from there. I would make sure they know and try to find out what happened. I would NOT wait 6 hours to notify a brother of the deceased. And in the R's case with 150 people assembled in a church within 4 hours of the discovery and with it being blasted all over every news channel in the nation, I would NOT allow one of the deceased brothers find out from watching the news.

Now how about everyone else on here? What would you do?
From Merrygirl: In 2009 my sister in-law was killed in cold blood at about 4:30 in the afternoon. I tried to find my mother in-law cuz the neighbors said she went to the scene. I knew she would be devastated with her favorite daughter gone. So I tried to get through the huge crowd to find her. Finally someone told me she was taken back home so I went back. I was consoling her when it was discovered no one had informed her other daughter cuz no one knew where she was. So I called @ her work, spoke to two of her friends and a co-worker before I found out she had left work at noon to go to her fiance’s home. Since she had changed her cell number we didn’t have the number so I called her ex to reach her. I finally reached her at 9pm, 5 hrs later. After she arrived she reminded me that she had sent me her new number in a text but I forgot.

 

[Betty P]

BBM

How are the survivors key to finding the killers?
Because family members know so much more about the lives and movements of victims than the general public does. A large percentage of the time they provide the clues that solve a murder.

Why do you think they're keeping secrets from LE?
Because Reader and DeWine said they were.

What makes you think they haven't told LE everything?
Because Reader and DeWine said they haven't. Reader even went so far as to threaten family members with arrest if they didn't tell what they knew. He said on day 1 that someone in that church knew who killed these people and why.

Why is this case so different than thousands of others in that you think it's all up to the surviving family members to solve the case and the failure of LE to arrest anyone is all the family's fault?
I think it is up to the surviving family members to be honest with LE and tell them everything they know important or not.

Family members have been questioned numerous times, given poly exams, submitted DNA, had their homes searched, etc.
I do not know of any family members homes that were searched but LM said that JM failed a polygraph. That is enough to cast suspicion on him.

Why hasn't Reader hassled any of the other family members, like DS?
We don't know that Reader has not hassled other family members. DS dropped out of sight fast enough.

JMO

Sorry, but you're going to need to provide a link where Reader and DeWine said that family members know something but aren't talking.

As for the Manleys, it's been stated in numerous interviews with them that they submitted to DNA tests, poly exams and had LE search their homes. They cooperated every time, until the time when LE planted the GPS device on JM's car when he was in the church for the Rhoden family memorial service remembering the first year anniversary of their murders.

What’s next in the Pike County murders investigation?

Manley’s father, Leonard Manley, said if investigators come back to the family property, they will need a warrant. The father made clear his displeasure with the status of the case during an impromptu press availability this week, saying, “I give them DNA, I give them my phone so they could go through it. I mean, I’ve answered their stupid questions.”

In the latest article about the murders, JM talks about all the cooperation he's given to LE.

Eight unsolved murders in Pike County, Ohio

After JM's arrest, it was revealed that LE had checked his phone, text, etc. records.

Where's the beef?

If they had something on any of the Manleys, LE needs to arrest them. They obviously have DNA from at least one of the killers, or they wouldn't be checking the DNA of Rhoden family members. Obviously, none of the samples the Manleys have submitted matched the DNA of the killers.

So why hasn't LE submitted the DNA of the killers to Parabon or a similar group to create a profile? Why haven't they matched it to familial DNA in one of the open source DNA/genealogy databases? They spent nearly $100,000 to build a new warehouse for storing the Rhoden family trailers and camper, one would assume they can afford a DNA test at Parabon.

The surviving family members have been honest with LE. You're going to have to provide proof they haven't done so.

I do always wonder why, when other members here have good discussions about evidence and theories on this case, it usually gets shifted to "blame the Rhodens" again. I plan to ask Tricia again to create a full fledged forum for this case, including Bernice Hayslip and Violet Rhoden Taylor, etc. People need room to discuss theories and do research without the discussion being deflected in another direction.

ETA: A reminder: Please provide links where Reader and DeWine accuse the family of not sharing information.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

All that may be why they "laser focused" on the Ws but apparently not enough was found to convict, or , enough was found to eliminate them as the perps.....

If LE found enough to eliminate the Ws as suspects, do you think they would announce it publicly? It seems to me that it would be highly irresponsible to lay such suspicion on a family that internally has been cleared.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

It may just be his way of wording, but if I said, X "come out and got me" it means in my wording, that someone physically came and got me, most likely by vehicle.

BBM


Pike Co. murder victim's father: those responsible knew family

Thank you Rsd. I knew he spoke about it before but didn’t remember his exact wording.

I’m gonna think about this before replying because it doesn’t sit right with me knowing she had to drive by Dana’s to get to Leonard’s.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I don’t think this case has much coverage throughout the country. Very few people I have mentioned it to, have even heard of the killings! The reward money is very small and there are few clues released to the public. It’s almost like everyone just wishes it would “go away” and end whether anyone is ever brought to justice. It is very discouraging. JMO

It's unfortunate, but sometimes whether or not a case becomes a capital one comes down to financial resources.