UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

[MittenScarpetta]

I don't think it took that long either. TR said he talked to CR1 that night. Little B's mother left at 10:30 but, I am almost positive that someone(s) was in and out of the property, after that time, at FR's home, including FR. There's the FB posts that DR did, that shows she was up past midnight. KR had to have been killed before 5:30. I'm guessing between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m. Taking into account that they went into the homes, got what they came for, scooped up babies, murdered folks, laid the babies back down, and left. :20 minutes at each of the three homes, :30 at CR1's, that's counting getting in, committing murder, getting what they wanted, and leaving. :30 prior for prep, ;15 for something unaccounted for happening. Two to three hours, tops. They knew these folks. They locked the doors at CR1's and FR's, to possibly slow down finding the bodies, because they knew about BJM would be coming in that morning, but they didn't know about the other key, or that she'd unlock the door...) No one would have discovered anything for at least a few more hours, if BJM hadn't gone inside.

Garry's father;

“I’d like to take them and torture them, for killing the whole family like this,” Kenneth Rhoden said. “Somebody had to know something because there were no doors busted down.”

7 mysteries from the Pike County shooting

I agree 100%. I personally feel like the killer(s) get more credit than they deserve when it comes to the “sophisticated” statements. Not only is there nothing sophisticated about murdering 8 people in cold blood, but I just have the gut feeling that it didn’t take that much to pull off. So far-the only thing the killers have gotten away with is not being caught.

I have no doubts they knew their killer. No forced entry at 4 homes says a lot. No one seeing or hearing anything says a lot ( as far as we know). Taking security cameras speaks volumes. Just being so brazen as to fire 32 shots in the very early (probably) morning hours screams someone who was pretty confident that they had nothing to worry about as far as getting caught in the act.

I don’t see sophistication. I see confidence.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree 100%. I personally feel like the killer(s) get more credit than they deserve when it comes to the “sophisticated” statements. Not only is there nothing sophisticated about murdering 8 people in cold blood, but I just have the gut feeling that it didn’t take that much to pull off. So far-the only thing the killers have gotten away with is not being caught.

I have no doubts they knew their killer. No forced entry at 4 homes says a lot. No one seeing or hearing anything says a lot ( as far as we know). Taking security cameras speaks volumes. Just being so brazen as to fire 32 shots in the very early (probably) morning hours screams someone who was pretty confident that they had nothing to worry about as far as getting caught in the act.

I don’t see sophistication. I see confidence.

In the way that I would use the word sophisticated, I don't see it either. Maybe there's something that hasn't been released, that will change our minds, once it is released. Like you, I think they had confidence, but may have gotten a bit nervous when it all went down. Could explain the additional shots. One was possibly more nervous than the other. I think there was probably two, no more than three. We know that it was premeditated, so they had it all planned out. Then something set the plan in motion.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

In the way that I would use the word sophisticated, I don't see it either. Maybe there's something that hasn't been released, that will change our minds, once it is released. Like you, I think they had confidence, but may have gotten a bit nervous when it all went down. Could explain the additional shots. One was possibly more nervous than the other. I think there was probably two, no more than three. We know that it was premeditated, so they had it all planned out. Then something set the plan in motion.

I think they got nervous as well. I just don’t see anyone who’s ever killed a human being prior to these murders, firing so many shots into the victims.

I also sometimes lean away from CR1 being a target. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t the main target. But there’s also the possibility that he was able to try to defend himself by trying to get away. Perhaps he heard the shots while in bed and came running down the hallway. Or maybe he was in another area of the trailer and was trying to get to the bedroom and the shooter just kept shooting. It’ll be very interesting to know all of the details

Also, I was rereading the autopsy reports quite a few weeks ago and made a note of HMR having a perimortem embolism of the pelvic artery. I’ve wonder if that was significant. Reading about those types of embolisms, they’re very rare and very painful. Is that something she would have had long before her death? Meaning did being shot cause that embolism shortly before death?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think that they'll solve it. If they didn't want to solve it, for any reason at all, then they could have easily called this familial, in that KR went off the deep end, murdered them all over being pushed out of the weed op, then killed himself with a single gunshot wound to the head. DS could be made to go along with that, and the autopsies would still be sealed, due to the drugs involved and the investigation of further activity as a result of the murders. They didn't even have to tell us about the weed. They could have just said; Illegal drug activities were going on at three sites, with a street value of half a million dollars. It seems KR and his family had a falling out...yada yada yada, he murdered them and killed himself. That would be plausible. Look up how many times a single, white, male, does that.

Edit:
In fact, I've often thought, if that's not what they tried to make it look like, when they killed KR. A major family falling out, and KR was the perpetrator, instead of the traitor(s) who did it.

I think they already solved it. They know exactly who did it, they just don't have the evidence to get a conviction. They have no eyewitness. no weapons, nothing.

Remember the killings in MO where the killers wore gloves and duct taped their clothes after they had showered? Then they poured bleach all over the place to get rid of any DNA. That story told in detail how to kill someone and not leave any evidence. If we read that story on the internet the R's killers could very well have also.

Remember DeWine said the R killers did everything they could to escape detection and prosecution.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That makes sense. They’d have to leave an untraceable gun or even maybe used KR’s own gun. I’d reckon KR slept with a firearm very near to him.....I believe it was KR2 who stated that in an interview but in case I’m remembering wrong I’m just reckoning and JMO.

I feel like the case has gone cold or is close to it. BUT I am still holding out hope that perhaps the upcoming election will bring an arrest in the next few months to come. Or someone will crack and not be able to handle the strain on their conscience any longer.

Maybe all the new DNA testing that’s recently solved the April Tinsley case will help solve this case. I know these murders were only a few months over 2 years ago BUT the advancements made in DNA testing even since then is phenomenal.

BBM

And the amount of people willingly submitting their DNA to trace their ancestors is staggering. My sister did this a year or so ago. She matched up with relatives we never knew we had as far away as CA and NY. Granted the people willing to do this are doing it innocently because they have never committed a crime, but it is leading to some familial matches in these cold cases.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

As Dr. Cyril Wecht said, all it took was one person to know the family. The killers could have been unknown to them. He said the focus was on one person (most likely CR1) and the rest were killed because of what they knew and the risk they would present if left alive. He described it as both personal and professional.

I don't think the focus was CR1. I think the focus was HMR. CR1 just got the most bullets because he was the hardest to stop. The fact that HHG was shot five times shows the hatred toward her because of her brother CG.

 

[Dudly]

I think that they'll solve it. If they didn't want to solve it, for any reason at all, then they could have easily called this familial, in that KR went off the deep end, murdered them all over being pushed out of the weed op, then killed himself with a single gunshot wound to the head. DS could be made to go along with that, and the autopsies would still be sealed, due to the drugs involved and the investigation of further activity as a result of the murders. They didn't even have to tell us about the weed. They could have just said; Illegal drug activities were going on at three sites, with a street value of half a million dollars. It seems KR and his family had a falling out...yada yada yada, he murdered them and killed himself. That would be plausible. Look up how many times a single, white, male, does that.

Edit:
In fact, I've often thought, if that's not what they tried to make it look like, when they killed KR. A major family falling out, and KR was the perpetrator, instead of the traitor(s) who did it.

Based on his weird story, I've always wondered if DS muddied the water at KR's place. Did he tamper with anything. I've always wondered if he had gone there by himself before he was at the church and sent there to check on KR. Going to check on him made sure there was a reason for his DNA and fingerprints being there. He says he was supposed to stay there that night and did not. Did he go first thing in the morning and tamper with things so he was sure his good friend would not be implicated in a murder suicide even though, unknown to him, that was not the case? I've always thought he was one of the people Reader referred to as not being truthful about what they told LE. So many possibilities....

 

[Dudly]

Yes, I recall his statements. However, while I don’t discredit Mr. Wecht because he is world
renowned, his statements were also made very early on, a month afterwards and I believe they were based off of the limited knowledge the media was able to share.





https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.chillicothegazette.com/amp/84732790

He went on to say one person got involved in something way over their heads. Just from rereading the article, I don’t believe these experts had insider knowledge from PCSO.

I guess what I’m trying to figure out is-did Fox and Wecht sit down and talk with PCSO/DeWine, or were their inputs based off of their professional experience and what they had read in the media?

I would like to know their current opinion on this case. I doubt there is anyone left in mainstreet media that would even ask them.

 

[Dudly]

I think they got nervous as well. I just don’t see anyone who’s ever killed a human being prior to these murders, firing so many shots into the victims.

I also sometimes lean away from CR1 being a target. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t the main target. But there’s also the possibility that he was able to try to defend himself by trying to get away. Perhaps he heard the shots while in bed and came running down the hallway. Or maybe he was in another area of the trailer and was trying to get to the bedroom and the shooter just kept shooting. It’ll be very interesting to know all of the details

Also, I was rereading the autopsy reports quite a few weeks ago and made a note of HMR having a perimortem embolism of the pelvic artery. I’ve wonder if that was significant. Reading about those types of embolisms, they’re very rare and very painful. Is that something she would have had long before her death? Meaning did being shot cause that embolism shortly before death?

I have thought CR1 was in another room and came after the assailants and they kept shooting till they got him stopped. As I said before, he may have been shooting at the assailants as he came after them and could have even hit one for all we know...

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have thought CR1 was in another room and came after the assailants and they kept shooting till they got him stopped. As I said before, he may have been shooting at the assailants as he came after them and could have even hit one for all we know...

That’s my thoughts as well. I think for example the wound to his extremity could possibly have been caused from him raising his arm to try and block himself from getting hit with a bullet. Realistically, IF he raised his arm for instance, he could've been shot in the arm through and through and the bullet could’ve hit another part of his body after exiting his arm. Then that would be an instance of two entrance wounds but only one bullet. We know he had 9 gunshot wounds, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he was shot with 9 separate bullets. Does that make sense?

I also don’t necessarily think the killers had to start as CR1’s house. We’ve never been told either way what order the victims were shot in, but I think it’s been widely assumed that the attack began at Chris’. But couldn’t it have started at Dana’s or Kenneth’s? Trying to think like a killer (I don’t know how they think, I’m just guessing lol), but wouldn’t it be smarter to start at a home isolated by itself versus a home that has another relative seconds away?

 

[Betty P]

I think they already solved it. They know exactly who did it, they just don't have the evidence to get a conviction. They have no eyewitness. no weapons, nothing.

Remember the killings in MO where the killers wore gloves and duct taped their clothes after they had showered? Then they poured bleach all over the place to get rid of any DNA. That story told in detail how to kill someone and not leave any evidence. If we read that story on the internet the R's killers could very well have also.

Remember DeWine said the R killers did everything they could to escape detection and prosecution.

JMO

The reference to sophistication could have referred to a number of things:

Destroying evidence, taking cameras, etc.

Killing victims before they had the opportunity to grab weapons and return fire, escape the home

Killing victims before they had a chance to grab a nearby cell phone to call for help. Some victims were in different rooms and could have heard others being killed

Staging the murders in a way to implicate others as the killers - BJM discovering bodies, KR's death possibly staged to look like suicide, later setting up JM to be driving one of the cars seen in video

Using some unknown (to us) tactic to enter the homes, manage the dogs

Investigators were probably referring to information the public doesn't know about the crimes. It may have also indicated the ability to coldly and methodically kill multiple people, up close and personal, with small children and infants nearby. It probably indicates someone who has done this before. Given other similar murders in the area, that's likely the case.

 

[Betty P]

I have thought CR1 was in another room and came after the assailants and they kept shooting till they got him stopped. As I said before, he may have been shooting at the assailants as he came after them and could have even hit one for all we know...

I've always considered that a possibility: that one or more of the killers was wounded, most likely during the encounter with CR1. If so, it could be a source for DNA.

 

[rsd1200]

I think they got nervous as well. I just don’t see anyone who’s ever killed a human being prior to these murders, firing so many shots into the victims.

I also sometimes lean away from CR1 being a target. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t the main target. But there’s also the possibility that he was able to try to defend himself by trying to get away. Perhaps he heard the shots while in bed and came running down the hallway. Or maybe he was in another area of the trailer and was trying to get to the bedroom and the shooter just kept shooting. It’ll be very interesting to know all of the details

Also, I was rereading the autopsy reports quite a few weeks ago and made a note of HMR having a perimortem embolism of the pelvic artery. I’ve wonder if that was significant. Reading about those types of embolisms, they’re very rare and very painful. Is that something she would have had long before her death? Meaning did being shot cause that embolism shortly before death?

BBM

I'm guessing that it happened at the time she was murdered. IANAD but perimortem means near death. She'd just had a baby so there's the chance of blood clots already. I'm guessing it was something that happened as a result of her death. I've checked for specific reasons, and haven't found any, thus far.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM

I'm guessing that it happened at the time she was murdered. IANAD but perimortem means near death. She'd just had a baby so there's the chance of blood clots already. I'm guessing it was something that happened as a result of her death. I've checked for specific reasons, and haven't found any, thus far.

I apologize, I quoted it wrong. The thrombus is specified as antemortem, which means it was present before death. Page 49 of 66 at this link under “genitalia/mammary glands” https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

I’ve googled and googled about this and I think my concern is that this was a clot that happened close to her death when she was still alive and that her death wasn’t instant. The reason I worry about that is from what I’ve found on this type of blood clot is that it would be very painful-more painful than the typical pain from recovering from child birth. The type of pain that a person would take an ER trip for. I’ve found no answers on if the two could be linked-being shot and a rare pelvic blood clot. I’m probably over thinking, but it stands out to me and concerns me.

ETA-I found this link that says it can occur postpartum. However if the pain is comparable to appendicitis, there’s no way a person would be doing such activities such as fishing hours before they were murdered. That poor girl had to be in agony. MOO.

So that leads me to ask-is there any chance that’s why KR2 didn’t stay the night, because HMR was in pain? Did HMR not feel well? Did HMR reach out to anyone that evening about being in pain? Captcha

 

[rsd1200]

I apologize, I quoted it wrong. The thrombus is specified as antemortem, which means it was present before death. Page 49 of 66 at this link under “genitalia/mammary glands” https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

I’ve googled and googled about this and I think my concern is that this was a clot that happened close to her death when she was still alive and that her death wasn’t instant. The reason I worry about that is from what I’ve found on this type of blood clot is that it would be very painful-more painful than the typical pain from recovering from child birth. The type of pain that a person would take an ER trip for. I’ve found no answers on if the two could be linked-being shot and a rare pelvic blood clot. I’m probably over thinking, but it stands out to me and concerns me.

ETA-I found this link that says it can occur postpartum. However if the pain is comparable to appendicitis, there’s no way a person would be doing such activities such as fishing hours before they were murdered. That poor girl had to be in agony. MOO.

So that leads me to ask-is there any chance that’s why KR2 didn’t stay the night, because HMR was in pain? Did HMR not feel well? Did HMR reach out to anyone that evening about being in pain? Captcha

I'd think if she was in that great deal of pain, that would be a reason for her best friend/cousin, KR2, to spend the night, and help with the baby. I think it may have happened during the day, while she and KR2 were out and about, and she probably thought it was just very painful afterbirth pains. K was her second, and she was nursing, so the pain could be expected to be worse.

 

[Betty P]

I would like to know their current opinion on this case. I doubt there is anyone left in mainstreet media that would even ask them.

I have an idea. Maybe we can find someone to interview him.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have an idea. Maybe we can find someone to interview him.

I wonder if he’s picky about who he gives interviews to because I’m not too proud to call myself and ask for an interview based on what’s known now LOL

 

[Merrygirl]

MittenScarpetta, post: 14232123, member: 214902"]I think they got nervous as well. I just don’t see anyone who’s ever killed a human being prior to these murders, firing so many shots into the victims.

I also sometimes lean away from CR1 being a target. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t the main target. But there’s also the possibility that he was able to try to defend himself by trying to get away. Perhaps he heard the shots while in bed and came running down the hallway. Or maybe he was in another area of the trailer and was trying to get to the bedroom and the shooter just kept shooting. It’ll be very interesting to know all of the details

Also, I was rereading the autopsy reports quite a few weeks ago and made a note of HMR having a perimortem embolism of the pelvic artery. I’ve wonder if that was significant. Reading about those types of embolisms, they’re very rare and very painful. Is that something she would have had long before her death? Meaning did being shot cause that embolism shortly before death?

I don’t think the perimortem thrombus is of any significant value. Since there is no documentation on the autopsy regarding an abdominal incision I have to conclude the baby was delivered vaginally. Depending on the size of the baby and HR’s pelvis size she may have had to do a lot of pushing to deliver the baby. This could result in a temporary thrombus (clot) that will be absorbed later by the body.

 

[Merrygirl]

Sorry guys, I’m new here but wanted to give my 2 cents worth but I was having problems working the reply to Mitten in #1038 regarding the perimortem thrombus.

I don’t think the perimortem thrombus is of any significant value. Since there is no documentation on the redacted version of the autopsy regarding an abdominal incision I have to conclude the baby was delivered vaginally. Depending on the size of the baby and the size of HR’s pelvis she may have done 2-3 hours of pushing to deliver the baby. This could result in a temporary thrombus (clot) that will be absorbed later by her body as she heals.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Sorry guys, I’m new here but wanted to give my 2 cents worth but I was having problems working the reply to Mitten in #1038 regarding the perimortem thrombus.

I don’t think the perimortem thrombus is of any significant value. Since there is no documentation on the redacted version of the autopsy regarding an abdominal incision I have to conclude the baby was delivered vaginally. Depending on the size of the baby and the size of HR’s pelvis she may have done 2-3 hours of pushing to deliver the baby. This could result in a temporary thrombus (clot) that will be absorbed later by her body as she heals.

I agree that the human body can reabsorb some clots. However, this clot filled the full length of her ovarian vein extending to the renal vein. The description sounds pretty large and significant. A clot that large has to most times go somewhere and causes extreme pain. I agree that she most likely delivered vaginally and based on photos shared via sm at the time,IMO HMR did not have a csection.

I think the significance comes in when it comes to the events of each victim the night before the murders. It’s been stated that HMR, 4 days postpartum, went fishing with her cousin. That’s been questioned by many followers considering her postpartum state along with a newborn baby, but when you factor in this young girl also having a large thrombus in her pelvis, it makes me wonder a little more if she really went fishing. It also makes me question when she developed that blood clot. JMO.

And welcome to WS!