OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

[Betty P]

I am not as generous as you Betty. AW's mother was ONLY charged with forging custody documents and then the whole line of people who could have gained custody or even visitation rights are murdered and she knew nothing about that? It didn't pique her interest?

I suspect there's more to these murders than what the public is being told. Grand juries are guided by prosecutors and the evidence they present, though. FW probably knew more than is alleged and the motive may have included more than just custody. It will be interesting to see whether more information comes out as these cases proceed through court.

I keep going back to all the things LE said publicly about this case and the threatening messages they kept sending to locals to come forward with information. The way they discouraged anyone offering reward money. All the implications about the local drug trade, etc. If they thought these murders were planned and carried out only by the clannish Wagners and only for custody reasons, why would they think others knew so much about it? Why did they think so many other people in the area were withholding information? As charged, these murders wouldn't have involved others outside the family. So why the threats? So, yeah, it's possible Fredericka knew a lot more and possibly played a more active role, JMO.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I suspect there's more to these murders than what the public is being told. Grand juries are guided by prosecutors and the evidence they present, though. FW probably knew more than is alleged and the motive may have included more than just custody. It will be interesting to see whether more information comes out as these cases proceed through court.

I keep going back to all the things LE said publicly about this case and the threatening messages they kept sending to locals to come forward with information. The way they discouraged anyone offering reward money. All the implications about the local drug trade, etc. If they thought these murders were planned and carried out only by the clannish Wagners and only for custody reasons, why would they think others knew so much about it? Why did they think so many other people in the area were withholding information? As charged, these murders wouldn't have involved others outside the family. So why the threats? So, yeah, it's possible Fredericka knew a lot more and possibly played a more active role, JMO.

At the very least, I’m assuming FW aided and abetted. JMO. The evil and calculation didn’t start with BW. He got that trait somewhere...

 

[peyton12]

I'm so confused by the arrests. It sounds like the manley's had nothing to do with this but then why was JMs truck under surveillance? Why did they keep interviewing Dana's sister if they knew it was the Wagners?

 

[Mandie K]

Do you know of any radio or cable stations that are covering this? Not having any luck.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm so confused by the arrests. It sounds like the manley's had nothing to do with this but then why was JMs truck under surveillance? Why did they keep interviewing Dana's sister if they knew it was the Wagners?

JMO
I may be wrong but from what I read yesterday im guessing it was just because there was some sort of phone call record that happened shortly before the murders. It may have been just a bad coincidence for him that a phone call was made or received.

 

[Betty P]

These are just some thoughts:

Regarding the baby bed being put together by Jake, I believe we will find one of two things: 1) it’s not true and was another lie told by him to paint himself as being good terms with HMR & the Rhodens OR 2) he put the baby bed together to get his DNA all over the new home-the home
he had not been in an uncountable number of times.

Regarding paternity of baby K-that was a lie. I can’t link it because it’s something I’ve seen with my own eyes too many times to count, so please take as my opinion only. HMR made it very clear in a social media argument with FR & HHG who the father of K was, just mere hours after she was born. HMR knew without a doubt who the father of her baby was/is. JW was not mentioned. IMO, the W’s did not wait for the baby to born in order to make sure they didn’t kill an unborn child. They waited for the baby to be born so they could use that newborn as a pawn and scapegoat in their lies. The newborn was used as a tool in their media interviews to gain sympathy from the public and to steer LE away from them as initial suspects. These people have no regard for human life. Babies were left alive because babies cannot speak. A 3 year old was left alive probably because he was asleep and didn’t see anything.

JW was scorned. Hence the 5 shots to HHG’s face. HMR’s new baby was HHG’s brothers child. The W’s placed blame on HHG for that. Dana and Chris were shot so many times because the W’s were beyond pissed off that CR1 & DR weren’t backing down and not allowing HMR to back down when it came to custody of S. HMR was shot only twice because whichever one pulled the trigger on her (I’m guessing Jake as his DNA was already in the home from assembling the crib) couldn’t bring themselves to keep shooting her.

Kenny was killed because the W’s knew from surveillance and their long relationship with the R’s, that he went to a Chris’ every morning to shower. The W’s couldn’t risk him interrupting.

Gary was killed simply because he was there. Wrong place, wrong time.

I’m sure Dana’s double on 4/21/16 threw them off. Dana worked 1st shift, 7a-330pm. She wasn’t supposed to be getting home so late that night. That threw a wrench in their plans somehow. I’m
Not sure how, but I’m sure we will know at some point.

Grandmonster Fredericka probably stayed with the two minors B & S that night while her son, daughter in law, and two grandsons stole the lives of 8 people on the night. All because these people just can’t handle not having control and the final say.

Anyone remember Jakes media comment that “ I reckon I missed it by hours” (paraphrasing) ? IMO, JW was to bring S home that Friday morning. I wonder if the W’s intended for JW to make the discovery at Dana’s? Maybe that’s why Chris and Gary were placed in a bedroom and the door locked at Chris’-in hopes that if someone arrived to a locked door, they’d just assume Chris wasn’t home and not go inside? Maybe BJM foiled the W’s plans for when and who would discover the victims.

Also, I find it interesting that the Newsome family recently stated at the end of October that new evidence had been found pertaining to the murders of Candy and Mykal. Reading the indictments, the W’s started planning January 1, 2016. The Newsome’s were killed January 4th. Is it possible there’s a link there to the Rhoden/Gilley murders?

Just some thoughts and of course all JMHO.

Oh and I fully hope that all 4 W’s are beside themselves not being right next to each other like they’re used to. It’s probably a scary feeling knowing they’re going to become someone’s prison b*tch and they can’t “protect” and be codependent on each other. KARMA.

Wow, MittenScarpetta! All very good analysis! I've also wondered if Fredericka was the one who watched the little ones while the murders were carried out. I also wonder if the crime was rehearsed and staged from Flying W Farms? The location was more convenient than the W farm down by Peebles.

Also recall how JW changed his story about the timing of his visit to Dana's house that night. Recall, they made Chris the Cincinnati Inquirer change her news story. Also interesting that he may have planned to discover the bodies himself. Overall, that wouldn't have been a good idea, as killers often do that sort of thing, but the Wagners made quite a few mistakes. I still can't understand how LE was unable to make these arrests for nearly 3 years. If the murders occurred as they say, they should have figured this out in the first few months, 6 at most.

JMO, I'm also on board with a possible link to the murder of the Newsomes. The MO was very similar. I've been wrong on some of my theories about these murders, and I'm ok with that. But I'm not ready to take some things off the table yet. There are so many hinky things about this investigation.

 

[Hatfield]

It is. Such a scary thought with why they did this to the Rhoden Family. RIP Rhoden's, IMO, it's hands down custody related with Mom W helping to lead the pack. May they get theirs and for years.

JMO
I think this as well. Could a grandparent be just as or more obsessive about wanting her son to get custody of the grandchild that she could coerce sons and others into going through with this devious plan?

Just getting a sense that there was some adult patriarchal figure that was very controlling and got everyone worked up into a frenzy about this plan.

 

[Betty P]

Do you know of any radio or cable stations that are covering this? Not having any luck.

Previously, there was a Cincinnati area radio station that covered this case, I don't recall the name right now. They've done interviews with Sheriff Reader and others in the past.

Try this one. I'm not sure it's the same, but it has some coverage

Four Arrested Tuesday for Murder of Rhoden Family

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Wow, MittenScarpetta! All very good analysis! I've also wondered if Fredericka was the one who watched the little ones while the murders were carried out. I also wonder if the crime was rehearsed and staged from Flying W Farms? The location was more convenient than the W farm down by Peebles.

Also recall how JW changed his story about the timing of his visit to Dana's house that night. Recall, they made Chris the Cincinnati Inquirer change her news story. Also interesting that he may have planned to discover the bodies himself. Overall, that wouldn't have been a good idea, as killers often do that sort of thing, but the Wagners made quite a few mistakes. I still can't understand how LE was unable to make these arrests for nearly 3 years. If the murders occurred as they say, they should have figured this out in the first few months, 6 at most.

JMO, I'm also on board with a possible link to the murder of the Newsomes. The MO was very similar. I've been wrong on some of my theories about these murders, and I'm ok with that. But I'm not ready to take some things off the table yet. There are so many hinky things about this investigation.

I believe the W’a loyalty to each other is what took so long to make an arrest. Also, from research I’ve learned that warrants to Facebook can take up to two years for any evidentiary information to be returned to police. Is it possible warrants for the victims social media caused a hang up in obtaining enough evidence? That’s considering the indictments stating that the W’s hacked social media and unlawfully monitored the victims.

I agree; some things aren’t off the board for me either. I am very curious to see what happens with the Newsome case. My gut is tellling me it’s going to be linked, even if loosely, to the W’s. I also need to compare dates to when the GJ convened for the W’s and Reader’s statements about VRT & JK.

I do believe there is much more to come in this saga and I also feel we are going to be stunned by what is released. In the meantime, I am so happy for the victims’ families that this holiday season they have some sort of answers, not all, but some. And I pray that the two minor children in CPS care right now are able to spend their first holidays in years with the ones who truly love them. Godspeed Rhodens, Gilley’s, Manley’s, and all extended family and friends.

 

[Betty P]

Also, any kidnapping counts? I may be confused, but it was my understanding that detaining (in this case, also then killing) occupants in their home by force or threat of force, that that qualified as kidnap??

I know it's a much lesser charge, but I'd like to see them charged with everything they have coming to them.

I'm absolutely STUNNED! 8 murders over a custody dispute. I thought at worst that they (the W's) might have paid for a hit. But to murder by your own hand an entire family who you knew well and who you called "friends." Unconscionable.

Good point! It's possible, will have to research it.

 

[Mandie K]

Previously, there was a Cincinnati area radio station that covered this case, I don't recall the name right now. They've done interviews with Sheriff Reader and others in the past.

Try this one. I'm not sure it's the same, but it has some coverage

Four Arrested Tuesday for Murder of Rhoden Family

Thanks Betty. I also found 700WLW. They had DeWine on when I tuned in.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

JMO
I may be wrong but from what I read yesterday im guessing it was just because there was some sort of phone call record that happened shortly before the murders. It may have been just a bad coincidence for him that a phone call was made or received.

The Wagners tried to set Manley up for the murders. There were numerous exchanges between Jake Wagner and James Manley's phone (it's unknown who was answering it as he allegedly left it in his truck at night) on the night of the murders.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I suspect there's more to these murders than what the public is being told. Grand juries are guided by prosecutors and the evidence they present, though. FW probably knew more than is alleged and the motive may have included more than just custody. It will be interesting to see whether more information comes out as these cases proceed through court.

I keep going back to all the things LE said publicly about this case and the threatening messages they kept sending to locals to come forward with information. The way they discouraged anyone offering reward money. All the implications about the local drug trade, etc. If they thought these murders were planned and carried out only by the clannish Wagners and only for custody reasons, why would they think others knew so much about it? Why did they think so many other people in the area were withholding information? As charged, these murders wouldn't have involved others outside the family. So why the threats? So, yeah, it's possible Fredericka knew a lot more and possibly played a more active role, JMO.

There's no doubt the sheriff assumed these killers bragged about their murders to others because the Wagners are as dumb as a box of rocks. That's why the sheriff kept asking locals to come forward with information. Jake may even try to escape the death penalty by claiming he's intellectually impaired.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm so confused by the arrests. It sounds like the manley's had nothing to do with this but then why was JMs truck under surveillance? Why did they keep interviewing Dana's sister if they knew it was the Wagners?

There were a large number of people who had made threats against the Rs. We don't know how many times they were interviewed. I think their main focus, in the Ms, were BJM, and JM. The Ms were first on the scenes, and they were family. The folks looked at first, in most all cases, are family (nearly 25% percent of victims are slain by family members. See link.) That's a lot, imo.

BJM also, and without thinking, of course, for want of checking on her in-laws, introduced, into the fresh crime scene, her fresh DNA. Folks were unsure how JM came to be at DR's that early morning. I think he knew there was bad blood there, heard the sirens, thought about the text, and went to check on his sis and her family.

I think that JM may have gotten that text. It may have been to ask if he'd heard from them at DR's home, (since she worked that double, and they needed to know where she was at), remember, they said it came earlier, was it 9ish, but JM didn't get it til later. Then AM hops online, and sees DR online, and they say oh, DR is home, they're fine. That put JM, AM in the mix.

The tracker, I think, was to flush out if JM was possibly consorting with the Ws after the murders, and to get him alone, in front of the Grand Jury. JM seems to be a man of few words and if they pushed him a bit more, maybe he'd talk in that setting.

You can tell the depth of the investigation just by the indictments. I have not had time to get much further than GW3's but he had a bug buster. When JM found the tracking device, and removed it, initially it could have appeared that he had one too, while in reality he was just working on his exhaust and found the device. BJM's initial statements likely didn't line up. It was said, that she was not only distraught over her family being murdered but was afraid she'd go to jail b/c of knowing about the weed op, so she wasn't completely forthright on her times and such at first. Those things are red flags in an investigation. It's also said that BJM has a bit of a temper. If you've followed this case, you'll know what I'm talking about. That may have played a role in them looking at her initially, too.

Expanded Homicide Data

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

JMO
I think this as well. Could a grandparent be just as or more obsessive about wanting her son to get custody of the grandchild that she could coerce sons and others into going through with this devious plan?

Just getting a sense that there was some adult patriarchal figure that was very controlling and got everyone worked up into a frenzy about this plan.

The only person who "gained" from these murders was Angela. She instantly became the little girl's new mommy. She did such a disgusting job parenting her first two children.

 

[Betty P]

I'm so confused by the arrests. It sounds like the manley's had nothing to do with this but then why was JMs truck under surveillance? Why did they keep interviewing Dana's sister if they knew it was the Wagners?

JMO, they made a lot of mistakes in this investigation. JW should have been on their radar from the start. He was one of the last people to see HMR before the murders. He was involved in a custody battle with her. He changed his story about when he was last at Dina's home. LE would have had all the information from cell phone communications, emails, internet & social media activity, etc. of victims and suspects within a week or so of the murders. That should have been more than enough to make him and his family the primary focus of the investigation and to get more search warrants, etc.

Instead, the investigation meandered around for nearly 3 years while the killers were allowed to take custody of S. and roam the country at will, free to concoct alibis and threaten anyone who suspected them. JMO, Fredericka and her husband were among the "Boss Hogs" of this investigation who had enough wealth, power and connections in the community to keep LE from pursuing investigation into their complicity. LE really shouldn't complain about the cost. They're partly responsible for it dragging on so long.

Lets also not forget the strong-arming of good reporters who lost their jobs because they dogged the investigation and asked too many hard questions. The public pressure, rumors and accusations against victims and surviving family members like the Manleys and other Rhodens is also unconscionable. It's a sad example of some very backwards attitudes by people who should have behaved like professionals.

ETA: JW was the last person to see HMR in her home, at the crime scene before the murders. Along with changing his story and the custody battle, this was a HUGE red flag.

 

[rsd1200]

JMO
I think this as well. Could a grandparent be just as or more obsessive about wanting her son to get custody of the grandchild that she could coerce sons and others into going through with this devious plan?

Just getting a sense that there was some adult patriarchal figure that was very controlling and got everyone worked up into a frenzy about this plan.

I'm thinking matriarch.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

\
BJM also, and without thinking, of course, for want of checking on her in-laws, introduced, into the fresh crime scene, her fresh DNA. Folks were unsure how JM came to be at DR's that early morning. I think he knew there was bad blood there, heard the sirens, thought about the text, and went to check on his sis and her family.

James Manley's sister found the bodies and she immediately called her brother.

 

[Betty P]

I'm thinking matriarch.

Very true. She was on my radar very early on. The queen bee, respected in the community, very connected, who ruled the family roost. As someone else mentioned earlier, these people regarded themselves as something akin to royalty, a grand blood line that needed to be protected. Rules and laws didn't apply to them, especially when religious beliefs are included in the mix.

 

[rsd1200]

The Wagners tried to set Manley up for the murders. There were numerous exchanges between Jake Wagner and James Manley's phone (it's unknown who was answering it as he allegedly left it in his truck at night) on the night of the murders.

I'd not heard that about him leaving JM leaving his phone in his truck overnight. I'd heard he got the text late at night, and AM checked in on DR via internet. Is this in the indictments? I've had to sit the grandkids two days in a row and haven't gotten far in them at all.