OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

[Satchie]

I don’t think I can post the brothers FB? He has not been arrested or mentioned at all. He had a falling out with his family years ago and started his own horse farm. Kinda why I wondered if he’s the informant? I kniw him and FW through horses.

I can’t copy and paste the farm Facebook for some reason? Might be because I’m on my phone. Put flying w farm Ohio and when you see the one with a horse and rider it’s the correct page. Their members are talking about it.

I feel bad as there is another flying w farm that people mistook for FW. They issued a statement that it’s not them. They have different logos

I believe it's his name now on the Flying W website as co-owner of the farm with his mother? Friesian Cross, Georgian Grande

ETA: or is that still the father's name. There might be issues over who inherits the farm. Side plot!

 

[Betty P]

I don’t think I can post the brothers FB? He has not been arrested or mentioned at all. He had a falling out with his family years ago and started his own horse farm. Kinda why I wondered if he’s the informant? I kniw him and FW through horses.

I can’t copy and paste the farm Facebook for some reason? Might be because I’m on my phone. Put flying w farm Ohio and when you see the one with a horse and rider it’s the correct page. Their members are talking about it.

I feel bad as there is another flying w farm that people mistook for FW. They issued a statement that it’s not them. They have different logos

No, we can only link to the FB accounts of those arrested for the murders. My apologies, I thought you were referring to a FB page belonging to GWIII.

 

[JusMeJim]

We all discussed this at length right after LM's interview. We too were stumped as to why PCSO would side against HR and the R's in favor of the W'S. We speculated at the time it was because of granny's money and influence in the area.

But we now know the W's had a forged custody document. It's possible that document stated he was the custodial parent.

JMO

In most cases the police CANNOT enforce a child custody dispute based on a written order. Who has custody of a child is a civil matter and has to be worked out in court. Oftentimes someone will call the police to "stand by" and make sure that there is no trouble.

Now with all of that being said, that is not to say that the Police didn't side with someone on a custody matter.

 

[passepartout]

A $11,365 Crime Stoppers reward would be paid for any information that leads to the apprehension of suspects and a conviction in the case.

Thank you Elley Mae!

That was the most recent number I'd found, too but I was wondering if it had gone up enough so that it might have been a factor in someone turning someone in.

 

[Dudly]

What are the odds that JW will say, "They made me do it"?

 

[rigsby2]

How frightfully cold-blooded and soulless the W family must be. Gives me chills to think they saw and spoke with these people regularly face to face while they were plotting their deaths.

I know CR1 was hit the most (9 shots?) as he was awake and attempted to defend himself. But if I read correctly, the next highest bullet counts were to DR and HG, who were each shot 5 times in the face. Does this seem like an even deeper level of hatred towards these two women? Almost makes me think AW shot them. JMO.

 

[IQuestion]

Wonder if it was GW3's sister? That's who was in the truck with him when he was caught in Lex, I do believe. I think that she is the farm manager too.

RSD1200 "Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!" My absolutely brilliant and wise Father used to tell me, "Two can live as cheaply as one, only if the other doesn't eat!" The other brother, Bob (?) had already moved on and had his own on-going business. Buuuuut, RW (the sister, seen in the arrest video of BigGWIII in Lexington and in the courtroom) might suffer financially if her Mother continued to subsidize GIII, AW, GIV, and JW, (and the minor children), huh? Imagine the negative attention, jeopardizing the company's 50 year reputation? Her Mother (FR) forced to testify before the Grand Jury....and Mamacita is jeopardizing everything by lying, sharing info about the questions asked, etc. Frankly, did/does RW have any choice but to pull away from the insanity?? I'm not saying she doesn't love her Mother or family....but common sense says "Loyalty to a condemned man must be greatly questioned."

 

[molly1255]

I've been transfixed with this case since 4/22/16 and like all of you, I'm elated with these arrests -- it's made my week. The wheels of justice have turned slowly for the Rhodens & HHG, but they're finally turning and headed straight for the Wags.

I'm mostly caught up on reading and wanted to share some thoughts.

In terms of motive -- I've always been skeptical that this was about illicit business competition or drugs - it just didn't make sense to me that anyone involved in the world of vice could benefit from the murder of an entire family, with all the inevitable LE attention that brought. Way more trouble than potential benefit. Robbery seemed like a possibility - maybe four places b/c they went from house to house to locate $$ - but there were a lot of pieces that didn't fit (the dogs not reacting, someone seeming to get the drop on Chris Sr. despite all his security precautions).

Now that we have some clarity it seems, as others have said, if money or drugs were taken it was likely a secondary benefit, not the primary objective. That said, remember the rumors that Chris Sr. had an empty safe in the back - it got me thinking, maybe each of the Wags had varying motives, with custody being the unifying one. I'm thinking here of George III and George IV, who were presumably were less invested in custody of SR or KR. The falling out b/w the Rhodens & the Wags was rumored to include a business break b/w Big George & Chris Sr. - so maybe for GWIII getting even & getting "his" was a primary motivator (i.e. George felt he got the short-end of the stick when the business arrangement fell through). For George IV -- some have questioned what could possibly have motivated him to commit murder for his brother -- I could see a potential payday being dangled in front of him to secure his cooperation.

But whatever else played a role, all signs point to custody being the primary motive. At Granny's hearing today, the prosecution said RH's forgery of the custody documents was “at the epicenter” of the case. As DeWine said following the arrests, "There certainly was obsession with custody, obsession with control of the children."

Given that reality, I'm inclined to agree w/ Molly - it sure seems like AW was pulling the strings:



AW was behind all the spin that JW gave to reporters. As another poster pointed out, AW was the one who became the primary caregiver for her grandchildren - given that JW was allegedly gone so much working. I could see AW being the one that provided the philosophical justification ("we have to save those babies from being raised by them") and being the one able to rally the two Georges to the cause.

AW was also the one who came up with the idea of JW asking for donations to cover legal costs of getting custody of SW:

Wagner won custody of his little girl last month in Pike County, he said. And while the ruling was not unexpected, the legal bills were. This week Wagner set up a account in an effort to defray the legal bills and other unexpected but associated costs. He didn't know about the website until his mother mentioned it to him. He said he didn't want to draw attention to himself or to his daughter, but also didn't see a way out of the debt he has incurred since the homicide.

"These were not expenses I was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her a happy childhood, she is only 2 1/2 years old,'' Wagner wrote on the page of the crowd-fundraising site. "Sophia and I are just asking for enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her mommy.
Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'​

This is obviously not a woman who feels shame - it strikes me as someone who has justified their heinous actions in their head. As others have suggested, like some twisted sense of Biblical/Hillbilly justice.

When DeWine conducted the raid that was covered by media, he said something to the effect that they knew much more than they did before, but he stopped short of calling them persons of interest or suspects but IIRC, he said there was a razor focus on the Wagners. And part of the raid included Flying W.'

At the time, I thought they were really onto something and expected an arrest soon. Then it appeared not much was happening, and I actually lost hope there would ever be an arrest.

As for the forged custody document - was this something they filed in court? I don't see how - wouldn't that have been caught? Was it something that was used to fool HMR, and perhaps other members of her family? JW took S around 10 PM on the night of the murders.

Also, did AW's mother know murder was being planned when she did this? What made her mother capable of forging a custody document that AW could not do by herself? Was her mother perhaps a notary?

Beyond bizarre.

 

[rsd1200]

I believe it's his name now on the Flying W website as co-owner of the farm with his mother? Friesian Cross, Georgian Grande

ETA: or is that still the father's name. There might be issues over who inherits the farm. Side plot!

GBWJr. is FW's deceased husband. Their daughter is the farm manager. Their eldest son is RAW, and I believe he has a home in Shade, OH.

 

[ab01]

I don’t think so. She would have to know FW would get out on bail. Then what?! Would be really hard to live with someone you turned on. RW would have to be very dependant on FW. Plus I would think FW would figure it out.

I’ve been watching the other brothers FB page. Radio silence

Could it be possible that the CI (possibly RW) didn’t think that FW would be charged with anything?

 

[molly1255]

There is a Rita J. in Scioto Co. Active notary for some time. Is this AW mom?

Sorry if this has been brought up before - between the Watts case and this case now, and having limited time to follow both, I know I've missed a lot.

 

[rsd1200]

RSD1200 "Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!" My absolutely brilliant and wise Father used to tell me, "Two can live as cheaply as one, only if the other doesn't eat!" The other brother, Bob (?) had already moved on and had his own on-going business. Buuuuut, RW (the sister, seen in the arrest video of BigGWIII in Lexington and in the courtroom) might suffer financially if her Mother continued to subsidize GIII, AW, GIV, and JW, (and the minor children), huh? Imagine the negative attention, jeopardizing the company's 50 year reputation? Her Mother (FR) forced to testify before the Grand Jury....and Mamacita is jeopardizing everything by lying, sharing info about the questions asked, etc. Frankly, did/does RW have any choice but to pull away from the insanity?? I'm not saying she doesn't love her Mother or family....but common sense says "Loyalty to a condemned man must be greatly questioned."

Especially when you hear them discussing offing LE, and other officials, and even revenge on one another, if one turns, you KNOW that your family had already, truly gone 'round the bend, but to discuss killing again, and possibly family members? It was probably scary for her, as she had to live among them! It's the only reason that I can think of as to why they didn't arrest her too. Living with them, she had to know.

 

[Merrygirl]

According to many of the news articles in the last few days, co-defendants in death penalty cases in Ohio are required to have separate trials

Prosecution of Wagners in Rhoden murders to take 'years,' cost thousands



During Tricia's podcast tonight, Gitana1 mentioned that some cases have been tried with co-defendants together, with separate juries. It would be interesting to see if that option is available in Ohio. We should message Gitana1 and ask her to drop by and discuss it here.

There's also a possibility that one or more of the defendants will accept a plea bargain offer, thereby avoiding a trial. What do you all think? Do you believe any of the defendants will negotiate a deal in exchange for some leniency?

I agree. The only one of the 6 with $$$ is FW and there’s no way she will want to part with it for all of them. The Wags have nothing, Pike Co has nothing and the State of Oh has nothing. I look for them to eventually plea bargain life w/o parole.

 

[CIA Team Member]

BETTYP bbm "Whomever it was, they didn't place family loyalty first." What a unique concept, huh? Sometimes Mom's have a soft spot for the "youngest child" and it continues even when the "baby of the family turns 40." I think the only thing that "trumps" family loyalty, is sibling rivalry. (Of course these are just my thoughts.)

I believe this is who will be the CI.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Lexington police and the FBI arrested 47-year-old George Billy Wagner on Tuesday in Lexington in a horse trailer that was pulled over.

The Latest: "Thank God!" says massacre Facebook page leader



Jmo I think the feds had george bugged.

Methinks the sister kept LE up-to-date on their whereabouts, IMO

 

[CIA Team Member]

I've been transfixed with this case since 4/22/16 and like all of you, I'm elated with these arrests -- it's made my week. The wheels of justice have turned slowly for the Rhodens & HHG, but they're finally turning and headed straight for the Wags.

I'm mostly caught up on reading and wanted to share some thoughts.

In terms of motive -- I've always been skeptical that this was about illicit business competition or drugs - it just didn't make sense to me that anyone involved in the world of vice could benefit from the murder of an entire family, with all the inevitable LE attention that brought. Way more trouble than potential benefit. Robbery seemed like a possibility - maybe four places b/c they went from house to house to locate $$ - but there were a lot of pieces that didn't fit (the dogs not reacting, someone seeming to get the drop on Chris Sr. despite all his security precautions).

Now that we have some clarity it seems, as others have said, if money or drugs were taken it was likely a secondary benefit, not the primary objective. That said, remember the rumors that Chris Sr. had an empty safe in the back - it got me thinking, maybe each of the Wags had varying motives, with custody being the unifying one. I'm thinking here of George III and George IV, who were presumably were less invested in custody of SR or KR. The falling out b/w the Rhodens & the Wags was rumored to include a business break b/w Big George & Chris Sr. - so maybe for GWIII getting even & getting "his" was a primary motivator (i.e. George felt he got the short-end of the stick when the business arrangement fell through). For George IV -- some have questioned what could possibly have motivated him to commit murder for his brother -- I could see a potential payday being dangled in front of him to secure his cooperation.

But whatever else played a role, all signs point to custody being the primary motive. At Granny's hearing today, the prosecution said RH's forgery of the custody documents was “at the epicenter” of the case. As DeWine said following the arrests, "There certainly was obsession with custody, obsession with control of the children."

Given that reality, I'm inclined to agree w/ Molly - it sure seems like AW was pulling the strings:



AW was behind all the spin that JW gave to reporters. As another poster pointed out, AW was the one who became the primary caregiver for her grandchildren - given that JW was allegedly gone so much working. I could see AW being the one that provided the philosophical justification ("we have to save those babies from being raised by them") and being the one able to rally the two Georges to the cause.

AW was also the one who came up with the idea of JW asking for donations to cover legal costs of getting custody of SW:

Wagner won custody of his little girl last month in Pike County, he said. And while the ruling was not unexpected, the legal bills were. This week Wagner set up a account in an effort to defray the legal bills and other unexpected but associated costs. He didn't know about the website until his mother mentioned it to him. He said he didn't want to draw attention to himself or to his daughter, but also didn't see a way out of the debt he has incurred since the homicide.

"These were not expenses I was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her a happy childhood, she is only 2 1/2 years old,'' Wagner wrote on the page of the crowd-fundraising site. "Sophia and I are just asking for enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her mommy.
Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'​

This is obviously not a woman who feels shame - it strikes me as someone who has justified their heinous actions in their head. As others have suggested, like some twisted sense of Biblical/Hillbilly justice.

I've been transfixed with this case since 4/22/16 and like all of you, I'm elated with these arrests -- it's made my week. The wheels of justice have turned slowly for the Rhodens & HHG, but they're finally turning and headed straight for the Wags.

I'm mostly caught up on reading and wanted to share some thoughts.

In terms of motive -- I've always been skeptical that this was about illicit business competition or drugs - it just didn't make sense to me that anyone involved in the world of vice could benefit from the murder of an entire family, with all the inevitable LE attention that brought. Way more trouble than potential benefit. Robbery seemed like a possibility - maybe four places b/c they went from house to house to locate $$ - but there were a lot of pieces that didn't fit (the dogs not reacting, someone seeming to get the drop on Chris Sr. despite all his security precautions).

Now that we have some clarity it seems, as others have said, if money or drugs were taken it was likely a secondary benefit, not the primary objective. That said, remember the rumors that Chris Sr. had an empty safe in the back - it got me thinking, maybe each of the Wags had varying motives, with custody being the unifying one. I'm thinking here of George III and George IV, who were presumably were less invested in custody of SR or KR. The falling out b/w the Rhodens & the Wags was rumored to include a business break b/w Big George & Chris Sr. - so maybe for GWIII getting even & getting "his" was a primary motivator (i.e. George felt he got the short-end of the stick when the business arrangement fell through). For George IV -- some have questioned what could possibly have motivated him to commit murder for his brother -- I could see a potential payday being dangled in front of him to secure his cooperation.

But whatever else played a role, all signs point to custody being the primary motive. At Granny's hearing today, the prosecution said RH's forgery of the custody documents was “at the epicenter” of the case. As DeWine said following the arrests, "There certainly was obsession with custody, obsession with control of the children."

Given that reality, I'm inclined to agree w/ Molly - it sure seems like AW was pulling the strings:



AW was behind all the spin that JW gave to reporters. As another poster pointed out, AW was the one who became the primary caregiver for her grandchildren - given that JW was allegedly gone so much working. I could see AW being the one that provided the philosophical justification ("we have to save those babies from being raised by them") and being the one able to rally the two Georges to the cause.

AW was also the one who came up with the idea of JW asking for donations to cover legal costs of getting custody of SW:

Wagner won custody of his little girl last month in Pike County, he said. And while the ruling was not unexpected, the legal bills were. This week Wagner set up a account in an effort to defray the legal bills and other unexpected but associated costs. He didn't know about the website until his mother mentioned it to him. He said he didn't want to draw attention to himself or to his daughter, but also didn't see a way out of the debt he has incurred since the homicide.

"These were not expenses I was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her a happy childhood, she is only 2 1/2 years old,'' Wagner wrote on the page of the crowd-fundraising site. "Sophia and I are just asking for enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her mommy.
Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'​

This is obviously not a woman who feels shame - it strikes me as someone who has justified their heinous actions in their head. As others have suggested, like some twisted sense of Biblical/Hillbilly justice.

Excellent dissection; you write well! What I thought interesting and it stuck with me was JW quit his truck driving job "to take care of Sophia." That job pays extremely well. Why did AW make him quit that job? I'm betting to "show the courts/community" that he was a stand up daddy/guy. It was all for show. NO parent would have their child quit a well paying job/bennies. Everyone would chip in to help care for said child.

 

[Flatbush]

What are the odds that JW will say, "They made me do it"?

I have wondered this.
Any of them really, once reality kicks in.
I am trying to picture each one locked up knowing they cannot see or communicate with any of the other family members.
I assume they got alot of time to think while in there, daddy W didn't look like he had gotten much sleep.
Mommy W up there and two boys, they have to be doing much thinking.
Only visits are probably from their attorney, grandma won't be coming. Not being used to being locked up being in a cell would really get to a person!
You would probably start second guessing family loyalty... May end up asking for a deal to avoid the needle.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. The only one of the 6 with $$$ is FW and there’s no way she will want to part with it for all of them. The Wags have nothing, Pike Co has nothing and the State of Oh has nothing. I look for them to eventually plea bargain life w/o parole.

I think they may take a plea from one, if one rolls on the main conspirator(s), but I believe that the people want a trial, and want maximum penalty for something like this. If this were a shootout between two drug dealers and their crews, we might see some pleas for LWOP. This is four people who murdered a 16 y.o. boy, they had watched grow up, JW had even attended Derbies with the Rs and Ms, iirc, HMR practically lived with them until the break up, went on vacation with them, was the mother of his child, and their grandchild. Babies were in those homes, next to young parents. This was especially heinous, and I am not sure that it would be a good political move, to just grant them all a plea bargain. Personally, I'd toss in a few bucks toward the trial, to get to watch them on the witness stand.

 

[rsd1200]

How frightfully cold-blooded and soulless the W family must be. Gives me chills to think they saw and spoke with these people regularly face to face while they were plotting their deaths.

I know CR1 was hit the most (9 shots?) as he was awake and attempted to defend himself. But if I read correctly, the next highest bullet counts were to DR and HG, who were each shot 5 times in the face. Does this seem like an even deeper level of hatred towards these two women? Almost makes me think AW shot them. JMO.

I would not be surprised if she did. I've thought from the beginning there was a female involved in this. DR possibly for some old injustice from the friend/business era. HHG, possibly for being a link to CG.

 

[IQuestion]

Fox news always seems to have pivotal videos on this case:
Fredericka Wagner arrives at the courthouse
She almost seems feeble walking in and the guards are helping/guiding her very attentively. But, daaang... it all changed after she was granted bond. She grabbed her paperwork, eschewed the bailiffs and walked straight out of the courtroom. (I thought she'd yell, "get out of my way" especially after her OWN ATTORNEY said, “She's a tough old bird who's willing to express her opinion.”)
And at the very end of the next video, (Lexington arrest) female (RW, sister) can be heard saying to officer,
"That's mine." then I think she asks "Will I get my license back" (??? as in I.D.) or "will I get my lights?" The traffic noise in the background makes it difficult to understand. But she seems calm, cooperative, and plain spoken. Maybe that is just her normal personality.... maybe she always handles stressful situations well? I am sure LE (at the scene) appreciated her level headed demeanor.