GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #2

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I think they said they would appeal right after the verdict was read.

I think he should at least be able to appeal the lifetime sex offender status. A year in Juvie would be no picnic, but it won't ruin his life the way a lifetime sex offender status would. It seems way over the top, to me. I can't see that society is helped by making a young man virtually unemployable for life for his part in this.

it's also unfair, as the article states, that some were given immunity who participated in the way Malik did. I can't see that will stand up in court.

You can't be serious. He's old enough to know what he did was wrong. He didn't care, and he got caught. Now it's boo hoo woe is me haha. I hope they drag the appeal out until this fool turns 21. He's lucky enough to be tried as a juvenile. He could be doing 20 years in prison.

So what if he has to register for the rest of his life. Who cares if he can't get a job. I know I don't.
 
It would be something if MR and TM decided to talk, with all their new found regret and humility.

Can they be compelled to testify to the Grand Jury as well?

As if. I bet you that won't happen (the rapists cooperating with LE). As far as being compelled in front of the grand jury, that would depend on the laws of the state, right ?
 
OMFG I can't believe some folks are making this about binge drinking, or about JD putting herself in a dangerous situation. How about exchanging the "dron't get raped" discourse with the "do not rape" one? :furious:

Seriously. :facepalm:

Agreed seattlechiquita, imo this is about the entitled & the enabled.. An accepted pattern of deviant behavior, allowed by those in authority who are sworn to protect the public's safety...
Sexual predators are recidivist, and this was not their first rape, nor would not have been their last, imo..

If not for the exposure by the hacker group; 'Anonymous', this case would have been swept under the rug as it had been so many times before, imo...

How Anonymous Hacking Exposed Steubenville High School Rape Case
http://www.alternet.org/how-anonymous-hacking-exposed-steubenville-high-school-rape-case
 
Foxfire, The hacker group, Anonymous, was the first and most public to put her name out there for the public to see.

Don't misunderstand their intentions - they're not necessarily "with" her. They're for all knowledge should be public no matter what it is.

Which is fine. You just have to understand they aren't an advocacy group for anything except absolute open information. And creepy masks, I forgot to say that.
 
You can't be serious. He's old enough to know what he did was wrong. He didn't care, and he got caught. Now it's boo hoo woe is me haha. I hope they drag the appeal out until this fool turns 21. He's lucky enough to be tried as a juvenile. He could be doing 20 years in prison.

So what if he has to register for the rest of his life. Who cares if he can't get a job. I know I don't

Add to that, JD may also have trouble finding a job--if the psychological damage she's suffered becomes so great that she can't function normally.

So boo frickin hoo if they get lifetime sex offender status and have to register. I wouldn't want either of them living near or working in the same place as me nor any other female, and as far as I'm concerned any woman they may come in contact with them deserves fair warning of what they are. Their actions and lack of remorse clearly demonstrate their disdain for, disrespect for, and danger to women.

As another poster said upthread, I'm pretty tired of the euphemisms for their actions too. Rape is considered under our judicial system to be a violent crime, not a "mistake" or lapse of judgment. How in the world do you rape somebody by mistake?

And it's pretty clear from their (non) apologies that they are only sorry they got caught, not that they raped her in the first place. Even MR said he was "truly" sorry that the picture was taken. :furious:

But the most important point is that at least they had the benefit of the legal process. Unlike their victim, whom they acted as judge and jury to bestow a life sentence of trauma, shame, (ETA: threats of bodily harm,) and goodness knows what else. Compared to that, having to register as a lifetime sex offender is a picnic.
 
First of all, since you don't want to continue I will fully respect that and these comments are not directed at you. Rather, I would like to use the experiences you posted as a starting point to post my own experience in this area. Please don't take this response as me looking for a response from you, I am not.

Second of all, you have no risk of being banned for expressing your opinion, even if it's not the same as the majority, as long as you do so respectfully. Which you have done. And we don't censure people here, we have no mechanism to do so.

So...

When I was in High School I had the pleasure of driving home a very intoxicated female classmate from a friend's house. I had not been there for the events leading up to this, but I got the phone call (I presume) because 1) I had a car and 2) I was not drunk in the middle of the day.

When I got there this girl was clearly drunk, and since we were both 17 as was everyone else involved there were a whole bunch of things wrong with this. She was someone I knew pretty well, as I went to a small private HS (graduating class of 61 people), so we all knew each other.

So, after getting her ID out of her purse to find out where she lives, I'm driving her to her house and she's getting rather amorous. Clearly it's the disinhibitory effects of the ethanol as I am not what you would consider an attractive individual. So, of course, I pulled over, put her in the back seat, fastened the seatbelt around her, and finished driving her home.

This was in 1978, and the movie Animal House had come out that summer. There's a scene in that movie where a drunk girl is left in a shopping cart at her parents' house while her date rings the doorbell and runs. That thought briefly crossed my mind as well, but no. Propping her up, I rang the doorbell and waited - and her father answered the door. I didn't know if I was going to be shot, and the look on his face I can remember to this day. I introduced myself, explained the situation, and handed his daughter over to him.

By the time I got home her father had already called and spoken to my mother. While she was less than happy about the whole situation, she did tell me that her father had thanked me for bringing his daughter home, and he believed me that I had nothing to do with getting her that way.

In case it's not clear, I didn't touch her. I mean, I had to touch her to carry her around, but the only contact I had with her was that, despite the fact that in her state she was fairly insistent that I do otherwise.

Now.

I had never been told explicitly, either at school or at home, that it's not right to mess around with a drunk girl. I never had to watch a film strip and take a test afterwards, I was never presented with a list of rules or a flow chart to follow to determine when it's OK to touch someone else's squishy bits. I just knew it was wrong to take advantage of the situation, and I did not. I don't think that makes me anyone special, my point is that it's no excuse for the subhuman dirtbags in this case to say that they didn't know that sticking their fingers up a passed out girl's privates isn't wrong. It's wrong, and if they in fact did not know that then they've got some of the lousiest parents I've ever heard of. What kind of mother would be proud of her son getting up there and saying that nobody involved in raising him every gave him the slightest inkling that doing that was at all wrong? If it was MY kid I'd make sure they said they KNEW it was wrong and they did it anyway - and they deserve the consequences. And yes, I've done that with both of my kids. Once each. Never had to do it again.

It's like politicians and ethics. When they are caught they say the rules were not clear. Well, if you've got to write down your ethical standards so that you can find ways to evade them as written, you are already lost.

So that's my story. I understand that the singular of "data" is not "anecdote". I don't know what sort of legal trouble I could have gotten into - I wasn't drunk, I had not been drinking at all and the only alcohol in the car was in my passenger's circulatory system, don't think you can get busted for that. Regardless, the right thing to do was to get her to her parents to take care of her, and I would have done it regardless. And I know a lot of other guys that would do the same. I don't think I'd hang around guys that would behave differently.

And...I was on the football team as well.

Um hm. My next son, after the first one I talked about, got a call from a girl who was wearing a bra and underwear and drunk and needed a ride home. THis is a model gorgeous girl, BTW. So he got in his car with a towel and drove her home wrapped in the towel and her undies. Untouched. That son got another call from a girl his freshman year in college who had swallowed a bunch of pills in an act of suicide, and he went to her dorm, carried her out to the hospital and called her mother in her home town. And he stayed with her for about 12 hours in the hospital, missing critical classes.

I get it that many boys have great character, as my sons do. I also believe, though, that boys who are offered something and take it aren't devils from the depths of evil, and shouldn't suffer life sentences as a sex offender for giving in.

And I believe in this case, they were offered favors. There may have been some who got something from a girl who was less responsive, but in general, she was awake enough to participate. From what I've read.

And that's not victim bashing. That's paraphrasing something that's been in the main stream news.
 
First of all, since you don't want to continue I will fully respect that and these comments are not directed at you. Rather, I would like to use the experiences you posted as a starting point to post my own experience in this area. Please don't take this response as me looking for a response from you, I am not.

Second of all, you have no risk of being banned for expressing your opinion, even if it's not the same as the majority, as long as you do so respectfully. Which you have done. And we don't censure people here, we have no mechanism to do so.

So...

When I was in High School I had the pleasure of driving home a very intoxicated female classmate from a friend's house. I had not been there for the events leading up to this, but I got the phone call (I presume) because 1) I had a car and 2) I was not drunk in the middle of the day.

When I got there this girl was clearly drunk, and since we were both 17 as was everyone else involved there were a whole bunch of things wrong with this. She was someone I knew pretty well, as I went to a small private HS (graduating class of 61 people), so we all knew each other.

So, after getting her ID out of her purse to find out where she lives, I'm driving her to her house and she's getting rather amorous. Clearly it's the disinhibitory effects of the ethanol as I am not what you would consider an attractive individual. So, of course, I pulled over, put her in the back seat, fastened the seatbelt around her, and finished driving her home.

This was in 1978, and the movie Animal House had come out that summer. There's a scene in that movie where a drunk girl is left in a shopping cart at her parents' house while her date rings the doorbell and runs. That thought briefly crossed my mind as well, but no. Propping her up, I rang the doorbell and waited - and her father answered the door. I didn't know if I was going to be shot, and the look on his face I can remember to this day. I introduced myself, explained the situation, and handed his daughter over to him.

By the time I got home her father had already called and spoken to my mother. While she was less than happy about the whole situation, she did tell me that her father had thanked me for bringing his daughter home, and he believed me that I had nothing to do with getting her that way.

In case it's not clear, I didn't touch her. I mean, I had to touch her to carry her around, but the only contact I had with her was that, despite the fact that in her state she was fairly insistent that I do otherwise.

Now.

I had never been told explicitly, either at school or at home, that it's not right to mess around with a drunk girl. I never had to watch a film strip and take a test afterwards, I was never presented with a list of rules or a flow chart to follow to determine when it's OK to touch someone else's squishy bits. I just knew it was wrong to take advantage of the situation, and I did not. I don't think that makes me anyone special, my point is that it's no excuse for the subhuman dirtbags in this case to say that they didn't know that sticking their fingers up a passed out girl's privates isn't wrong. It's wrong, and if they in fact did not know that then they've got some of the lousiest parents I've ever heard of. What kind of mother would be proud of her son getting up there and saying that nobody involved in raising him every gave him the slightest inkling that doing that was at all wrong? If it was MY kid I'd make sure they said they KNEW it was wrong and they did it anyway - and they deserve the consequences. And yes, I've done that with both of my kids. Once each. Never had to do it again.

It's like politicians and ethics. When they are caught they say the rules were not clear. Well, if you've got to write down your ethical standards so that you can find ways to evade them as written, you are already lost.

So that's my story. I understand that the singular of "data" is not "anecdote". I don't know what sort of legal trouble I could have gotten into - I wasn't drunk, I had not been drinking at all and the only alcohol in the car was in my passenger's circulatory system, don't think you can get busted for that. Regardless, the right thing to do was to get her to her parents to take care of her, and I would have done it regardless. And I know a lot of other guys that would do the same. I don't think I'd hang around guys that would behave differently.

And...I was on the football team as well.

Oh... I think I love you. It doesn't take specific words, or a film strip, or a class on ethics to recognize that when something is wrong, it's wrong. Hurting another human being, taking advantage of another human being in such a horrible, ugly manner, is just wrong.

You restore my faith in Knights in Shining Armor.

Salem
 
Not sure what that means, but it looks like you want to keep going so that's fine with me.

I'm posting in general, I don't want to keep "going" with a conversation with you. I'm posting to the forum, in general. Please don't take this as a continuation of something that you've posted.

It seems your posts are quite long winded, and I don't really read them, except to skim.
 
I believe that IS victim bashing unless you provide your mainstream news source.

JeannaT:

What I meant was, please provide your mainstream news source.

Also in response to something you posted earlier, what crime do you think the girl should have been charged with?
 
Well I read every word and I just want to tell you how much I appreciate your perspective. This whole situation has shocked me some - knowing that so many people were involved and not one, not one, came to the aid of the victim here and so many stood around and laughed and took pictures.

And even now, the internet is exploding with her name and ugly rumors and who knows what else. It shocks me to the core that there is so little compassion in this world sometimes.

Salem
 
JeannaT:

What I meant was, please provide your mainstream news source.

Also in response to something you posted earlier, what crime do you think the girl should have been charged with?

What crime this girl should be charged with? ???? I don't even know what you're talking about.
 
Foxfire, The hacker group, Anonymous, was the first and most public to put her name out there for the public to see.

Don't misunderstand their intentions - they're not necessarily "with" her. They're for all knowledge should be public no matter what it is.

Which is fine. You just have to understand they aren't an advocacy group for anything except absolute open information. And creepy masks, I forgot to say that.

BBM for focus.

That's not what they say.

Quote:

A preliminary dox is being released on some of those involved, while a full size dox of everyone involved including names, social security numbers, addresses, relatives, and phone numbers is being compiled as you watch this video on every single member of the football team, those involved, the coaches, the principle, and more. This dox will be released unless all accused parties come forward by new years day and issue a public apology to the girl and her family. Make no mistake, all you need is a google search engine to realize we are serious in what we do. You can hide no longer, you have attracted the attention of the hive. We will not sit idely by and watch a group of young men who turn to rape as a game or sport get the pass because of athletic ability and small town luck. You now have the world looking directly at you.

http://www.anonpaste.me/anonpaste2/...#sObkWjsK+ZbV9PeupgZlNbJxqzROmyhDSNo2erqpU2M=
 
Like I said, I don't think I did anything special. And also, at the party where the other kids were all drunk, none of the guys there tried to take advantage of her either, from all that I know. I just couldn't imagine associating with people who could justify doing that to themselves.

"Offered" my *advertiser censored*. That's an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Blame the drunk girl? Beyond weak. Beyond pathetic. They should be ashamed of themselves, and their parents should be ashamed of their demon spawn. They clearly are not, and hence the cycle will repeat.

Makes me sick.

For the record, I don't think you did anything all that special either.

You did what my sons have done, and what my husband would have done.

But I don't think others who fell short should have their lives ruined for the rest of their existence.
 
For the record, I don't think you did anything all that special either.

You did what my sons have done, and what my husband would have done.

But I don't think others who fell short should have their lives ruined for the rest of their existence.

Fell short? They didn't fall short, they raped a girl. It is their actions that ruined their life; there is no one else to blame but them.
 
What crime this girl should be charged with? ???? I don't even know what you're talking about.

I TOTALLY apologize. I'm sorry. I got some of your posts mixed up. This is the girl I was referring to, BBM for focus:

I've just got to say, I'm still so torn on hearing this case.

I had a horrible experience - probably as many mothers of sons have had - with a girl who came to a party and drank herself nearly to death with alcohol she brought and a couple of my son's friends now have criminal records for minor in possession of alcohol (her alcohol, actually). She stripped herself naked and got in the hot tub and they rescued her from the hot tub, dressed her, and took her home to her mother. She had to be treated in the ER because she was so wasted. She herself feels awful about this - but she wasn't charged with anything. My own son, who hadn't had ANYTHING to drink and did nothing wrong whatsoever and helped this girl get home safely had to go to the ER and pay $500 (that's 5 hundred dollars) for a blood test that would show he had zero alcohol blood level. He was completely cleared, but a couple of the other boys who had a couple beers at the party where she nearly drank herself to death now have convictions.

It's not all black and white. I have the utmost respect and admiration for these boys in my experience who took care of this girl, in this local case, didn't touch her except to dress her and carry her home, but I am angry at a legal system that didn't charge her but charged the boys.


That's what I'm dealing with, when I read this story about this girl. I'm so grateful that my son and his friends were unbelievably respectful (really!) and I pine for the boys in this case who were less in control of themselves. Girls who have a long history of drinking to the point of blacking out are dangerous to their friends.

And I also had a few other questions about this post that you might have overlooked? I really would like to better understand what happened.

1. You said your son had to go to the ER for a blood test to show his BAC. Why did he have to? I mean, who made/encouraged him to do so? Law enforcement? If so, why? I don't understand why a good Samaritan like your son would have been ordered or encouraged to do this.

2. When you say your son's friends now have criminal records for "minor in possession of alcohol (her alcohol, actually)" and later say "a couple of the other boys who had a couple beers at the party...now have convictions" I get really confused. It sounds like you are saying there was no alcohol at the party until the girl brought it. If that were the case:

If the girl feels awful about the situation, it sounds like she has a conscience. Did she not speak up and say it was her alcohol and not your son's friends' alcohol? Or does the MIP law state that once the alcohol showed up everyone underage be considered minors in possession? (I know next to nothing about present-day underage drinking laws, having done my underage drinking back in the Mesozoic era.)

If the girl brought the alcohol to the party and some of the (underage) boys had a couple of beers (that she brought), doesn't that mean they were, in fact, minors in possession?

And if they were of age and had a couple of beers (that she brought), what were they convicted of?

I just don't understand the situation.

Thank you and again I apologize for my confusion.
 
Like I said, I don't think I did anything special. And also, at the party where the other kids were all drunk, none of the guys there tried to take advantage of her either, from all that I know. I just couldn't imagine associating with people who could justify doing that to themselves.

"Offered" my *advertiser censored*. That's an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Blame the drunk girl? Beyond weak. Beyond pathetic. They should be ashamed of themselves, and their parents should be ashamed of their demon spawn. They clearly are not, and hence the cycle will repeat.

Makes me sick.

No you didn't, and I don't mean that as an insult to you. You simply did what any non-psychopathic human being with even a smidge of a moral compass, and a modicum of understanding of right and wrong, and empathy for other human beings, would do. What, dear heavens, I hope most males would do.

As for the parents, had they been my parents, once it became clear what actually happened, juvie would have held no terrors for the rapists after their parents got through with them. And my parents would have made excuses for such behavior over mine and their dead bodies.

And it makes me sick too. Particularly having grown up during the Mesozoic age and having witnessed attitudes about rape evolving from that age, to see that Mesozoic blame-the-however-incapacitated victim attitudes still survive.
 
Fell short? They didn't fall short, they raped a girl. It is their actions that ruined their life; there is no one else to blame but them.

Sorry, thanks wasn't enough. To add:

Really, how does rape OVER A PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME, NO LESS = fall short? Of ANYTHING except decent human behavior?

And what about the GIRL whose life was ruined? Where is the compassion for her?
 

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