OH OH - "The Red Shoe Mystery" - Lola Celli, 24, Grandview Heights, Feb 1946

[Veidt]

By the way, remember when I brought up the idea of starting a blog about the case? I did start it at the time though I never progressed very far with it. I'm willing to revive it now and actually post on there. If anyone would like to help or contribute, please let me know. I'm not as experienced with this as some of you are, so I'm always afraid of discussing details outside of this forum in case it tips off the perp the wrong way (though I assume the perp would be very old by now so it's probably fine). Here it is:

http://findlolacelli.wordpress.com/

So far it only has two pages and no blog entries or specifics yet. Ideas for blog posts could be maps, theories, things like that.

 

[Veidt]

Celli had been gone only a year when a cryptic missive suggested she might have been the first of a serial killer’s victims.

I was reading through the thread all over again, this caught my attention. Does anyone know more about this cryptic missive?

 

[Veidt]

Sorry about the flood, I'm trying to keep things organised. While hitting Google News Archives to see if I could find any mention of the cryptic missive, I found a couple of news articles I thought were interesting. My apologies if they've already been posted, it's been a while since I read this whole thread!

Portsmouth Times, July 31 1936

MISSING GIRL ALIVE, TELEPHONER CLAIMS
Brother Admits Possibility Of Sister's Marriage
By The United Press
COLUMBUS, July 31 - Felice Celli, brother of the missing Lola Celli, admitted here today that an anonymous telephone call in which the former school teacher was reported married and living in a nearby town might be correct.

He said he knew of no way in which the call, made to the Ohio State Journal, could be checked. Many calls, a large number of them obviously by "cranks", had been received since the girl disappeared Feb. 23.

The caller was quoted as saying he was the husband of the Celli girl, and that she was expecting the birth of a child. The news account said he claimed to have called the Celli family several times.

The Celli girl, a teacher at West Mansfield, O., disappeared during a holiday visit with her parents. She was last seen shortly after she left her suburban Grandview home to board a bus for downtown Columbus.

Article.

Portsmouth Times - July 31 1946*

TO CHECK LICENSES
Columbus, Aug. 1 - Recheck of marriage licenses issued in northern Kentucky towns was ordered today by Grandview Police Chief Robert Livingston as a result of new developments in the case of the missing Lola Celli.

Chief Livingston said marriage licenses in Greenup, Covington and other Kentucky border towns to which Ohio couples go for quick marriages were checked shortly after the Celli girl disappeared.

Article.

* I believe the date may be wrong since the scan of the newspaper says Aug. 1 where it appears in the news, so it's possible the database labelled the date wrong. I also think the article says "Greenup" but there's a weird squiggle over the word so I can't make it out so well.

Portsmouth Times - August 24, 1956

Case of Lola Celli Closed
Marshall Says Missing Girl Alive
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - The family of Lola Celli would like to believe that the 10-year mystery of the disappearance of the Grandview Heights school teacher has been solved.

But, says her brother, Dr. Felice Celli of Ohio State University, "We can't quite believe it."

Police Chief Robert R. Livingston of suburban Grandview said that the Celli case has been closed on the report to him of John Guy, marshal of neighboring Marble Cliff, that he knows where Miss Celli is.

Miss Celli, then 24 and a school teacher at West Mansfield, disappeared Feb. 23, 1946, when she left her home on a shopping trip to downtown Columbus.

Guy was not available for comment, but Chief Livingston said Guy declines to "break a confidence" to elaborate on his information that Miss Celli is alive.

Chief Livingston declared: "I've known John Guy for 50 years and I am willing to accept his word." He added he saw no reason to press Guy for detailed information since there is no evidence of a crime in the case.

Article.

There are also a couple of articles about how, in 1955, the police received a tip to check out an illegal grave at a cemetery and they believed they'd find Lola. They found a man instead so that lead proved to be correct in the sense that the tipster noticed something suspicious right, but it wasn't Lola.

You can find the initial article here and the follow up about the results of the search here.

By the way, does anyone have a subscription to the Los Angeles Times archives?

EDIT: I just saw that an article similar to the 1956 has been posted in this thread already. My apologies.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I was reading through the thread all over again, this caught my attention. Does anyone know more about this cryptic missive?

Richard mentions it in the very first post:

Celli had been gone only a year when a cryptic missive suggested she might have been the first of a serial killer’s victims. The note, created with mismatched type styles cut from magazine headlines, warned: "You dumb fools, I want a corpse, a girl’s blood cadaver to kiss and cut up. Get to me before it is too late."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - "The Red Shoe Mystery" - Lola Celli, 24, Grandview Heights, Feb 1946

 

[Veidt]

Richard mentions it in the very first post:

Celli had been gone only a year when a cryptic missive suggested she might have been the first of a serial killer’s victims. The note, created with mismatched type styles cut from magazine headlines, warned: "You dumb fools, I want a corpse, a girl’s blood cadaver to kiss and cut up. Get to me before it is too late."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - "The Red Shoe Mystery" - Lola Celli, 24, Grandview Heights, Feb 1946

Ah, I remember this now. Thanks.

One thing I've been thinking, do we know if there were any aliases or nicknames Lola had? I've been searching through marriage records in the area and in northern Kentucky because of the articles I posted, but I'm at a loss. I doubt she would have used the name "Lola Celli" for those. Would it have been easy to give a fake name at the time? Was it possible for someone to get married at a Catholic church without a matching legal record, for example if both parties requested privacy? I know that nowadays the two are connected, so when people marry at a church a record is made of it at the local court also. Could records be stores at churches only, so a fire or something could have destroyed the records?

I find it interesting that the possibility that she was alive and well came up and the police chief seemed to believe she was based on what he was told. I wonder what information he received. At the same time, LE seemed to have looked into clues related to a scenario in which she had been killed and her brother said it was hard to confirm.

I wonder if LE, or at least that marshal, could have been covering up for someone. I also wonder if they were telling the truth and she'd eloped to get married, but in that case, I wonder why. As I've said before nothing about her behavior indicated a secret boyfriend and she didn't seem the type to do it. Her family also doesn't seem the type to hold a grudge if she had eloped and it sounds like they would have been glad to at least get a phone call from her. Of course that people we don't know can surprise us, but the only scenario I can imagine would be if it was somehow a taboo relationship, like an interracial marriage. And even then it seems strange that she wouldn't have gotten in touch at any point. :twocents:

If the case was closed in 1956, how is it 'open' now? Did something happen to re-open it or am I missing something about how American laws work?

Thank you.

 

[Robin Hood]

Would a FOI request to the powers that be yield more info ? Any posters willing to file one ?

That pasted note looks interesting too, that might serve other women that might have become a victim of a SK.

''Celli had been gone only a year when a cryptic missive suggested she might have been the first of a serial killer’s victims. The note, created with mismatched type styles cut from magazine headlines, warned: "You dumb fools, I want a corpse, a girl’s blood cadaver to kiss and cut up. Get to me before it is too late."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - "The Red Shoe Mystery" - Lola Celli, 24, Grandview Heights, Feb 1946''

 

[Veidt]

Would a FOI request to the powers that be yield more info ? Any posters willing to file one ?

That pasted note looks interesting too, that might serve other women that might have become a victim of a SK.

''Celli had been gone only a year when a cryptic missive suggested she might have been the first of a serial killer’s victims. The note, created with mismatched type styles cut from magazine headlines, warned: "You dumb fools, I want a corpse, a girl’s blood cadaver to kiss and cut up. Get to me before it is too late."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - "The Red Shoe Mystery" - Lola Celli, 24, Grandview Heights, Feb 1946''

I'd file one but I don't live in the US and don't know enough about American laws to know what to do. If someone could do it then it would be very helpful.

I'm very curious about that pasted note. Is it usual for serial killers to send pasted notes? I'm trying to find examples of that but all I find are pop culture examples like song lyrics and discussion about ransom notes. Most serial killers I can think of who have sent notes, off the top of my head, seem to have mostly sent in handwritten notes - possibly as a way to boost their ego and mock the police, thinking they're outsmarting them.

This, along with the police chief being so willing to close the case based on being told she was alive and well, makes me think that the letter was a prank. Or perhaps it was real and the killer was more motivated by a compulsion to kill and rape than trying to outsmart LE.

It reminds me of that serial killer who scrawled a message to the police with one of the victim's lipstick, IIRC, he said something like 'please catch me before I kill again' or something. I can't remember which case that was though I think it happened decades later so I don't think it has any connection, just that the profile of the killer might be similar.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I've since read that the statement by the other LE person who stated she was alive and well was recanted, which is why the case remained open.

 

[Robin Hood]

I'd file one but I don't live in the US and don't know enough about American laws to know what to do. If someone could do it then it would be very helpful.

I'm very curious about that pasted note. Is it usual for serial killers to send pasted notes? I'm trying to find examples of that but all I find are pop culture examples like song lyrics and discussion about ransom notes. Most serial killers I can think of who have sent notes, off the top of my head, seem to have mostly sent in handwritten notes - possibly as a way to boost their ego and mock the police, thinking they're outsmarting them.

This, along with the police chief being so willing to close the case based on being told she was alive and well, makes me think that the letter was a prank. Or perhaps it was real and the killer was more motivated by a compulsion to kill and rape than trying to outsmart LE.

It reminds me of that serial killer who scrawled a message to the police with one of the victim's lipstick, IIRC, he said something like 'please catch me before I kill again' or something. I can't remember which case that was though I think it happened decades later so I don't think it has any connection, just that the profile of the killer might be similar.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I've since read that the statement by the other LE person who stated she was alive and well was recanted, which is why the case remained open.

I'm in UK so I wouldn't know how to file one either

The East area rapist sent a poem to LE and IIRC wrote something on a bathroom wall.

Was it also the 'Lipstick' killer that wrote on the bathroom mirror ?

There was another young child killed and the perp wrote something on a barn and sent notes to children by putting them in the cycle baskets of their bikes.

Zodiac liked to taunt too.

I seem to recall the Black Dahlia had some correspondence going on as well.

I think it's part of the game, the control, the 'catch me if you can' psychopathy.

 

[JWD]

I think the Freedom of Information Law applies only to info in the possession of the FBI or other Federal organizations. IIRC, nothing in this case happened to legally allow the Feds to step in.

Best,
JWD

 

[Veidt]

I'm in UK so I wouldn't know how to file one either

The East area rapist sent a poem to LE and IIRC wrote something on a bathroom wall.

Was it also the 'Lipstick' killer that wrote on the bathroom mirror ?

There was another young child killed and the perp wrote something on a barn and sent notes to children by putting them in the cycle baskets of their bikes.

Zodiac liked to taunt too.

I seem to recall the Black Dahlia had some correspondence going on as well.

I think it's part of the game, the control, the 'catch me if you can' psychopathy.

I just Googled it and the killer I was thinking of was William Heirens. At one point he wrote a message with lipstick on the apartment wall (no mention of a bathroom mirror though I also seem to remember something about a mirror) saying:
"For heavens
sake catch me
before I kill more
I cannot control myself."

The note police got about Lola sounds rather similar, in the sense that it seems to be less about bragging like many SKs do and more about telling LE to catch them before they act out on their compulsion to kill again. If this makes sense... do you remember if the notes you were talking to were handwritten? I remember something about how most 'bragging' letters that are meant to mock the police are usually handwritten but I could be wrong.

I also just noticed that Heirens was active in the 40s, he was arrested in June 1946. While I don't think he was in Ohio at the time since the known murders connected to him and to which he confessed were in the Chicago area AFAIK, maybe that's a possibility. I don't think he sent that note because from what I understand, it was sent in 1947 when he was already in prison. However, I also wonder if perhaps someone was inspired to send that note to the police because of his case. It could have been a copycat or someone trying to divert attention from the real perp if she was killed, even less likely someone sending in a 'tip' because they believed Heirens to be connected to Lola's disappearance. Maybe it was a cruel prank or someone with a mental illness being deluded. Would his lipstick note have been publicized and widely discussed in the press, does anyone know?

I think the Freedom of Information Law applies only to info in the possession of the FBI or other Federal organizations. IIRC, nothing in this case happened to legally allow the Feds to step in.

Best,
JWD

Thank you, I didn't know this. Would it still be possible for a US sleuth to get in touch with the police and ask them to clarify a few points about the case or release new info if they can?

 

[Amy74]

Would a FOI request to the powers that be yield more info ? Any posters willing to file one ?

That pasted note looks interesting too, that might serve other women that might have become a victim of a SK.

''Celli had been gone only a year when a cryptic missive suggested she might have been the first of a serial killer’s victims. The note, created with mismatched type styles cut from magazine headlines, warned: "You dumb fools, I want a corpse, a girl’s blood cadaver to kiss and cut up. Get to me before it is too late."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - "The Red Shoe Mystery" - Lola Celli, 24, Grandview Heights, Feb 1946''

I think that either Marilynpa or MaryLiz (posters on this forum,) have sat down with a detective and gone through the file. I can't remember which one it was, but you could look at their old posts.I would check with them to see they have knowledge of what you are looking for. I believe the police were cooperative, but Grandview has a very small police department and being inundated with requests by many people may temper their cooperation. A FOI request would probably not be the appropriate route, unless the FBI was involved at all, which is possible, I am just not aware.

 

[Veidt]

I think that either Marilynpa or MaryLiz (posters on this forum,) have sat down with a detective and gone through the file. I can't remember which one it was, but you could look at their old posts.I would check with them to see they have knowledge of what you are looking for. I believe the police were cooperative, but Grandview has a very small police department and being inundated with requests by many people may temper their cooperation. A FOI request would probably not be the appropriate route, unless the FBI was involved at all, which is possible, I am just not aware.

I remember those posts, but I wonder if perhaps there are things that couldn't be revealed at the time but can be revealed now? I don't know how laws in the US work but I'm thinking that if there's a rule on how long they should wait before releasing certain info on cases then a few more details may be available now that weren't available when Marilynpa (I think it was, from what I recall) talked to the dective... I also think posting stuff on a website is a bit different from talking to one person, so a request for info that can specifically be posted out here could make it clearer what is or isn't ok to share in a semi-public venue. I could be wrong though, obviously, this is just along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I remember those posts, but I wonder if perhaps there are things that couldn't be revealed at the time but can be revealed now? I don't know how laws in the US work but I'm thinking that if there's a rule on how long they should wait before releasing certain info on cases then a few more details may be available now that weren't available when Marilynpa (I think it was, from what I recall) talked to the dective... I also think posting stuff on a website is a bit different from talking to one person, so a request for info that can specifically be posted out here could make it clearer what is or isn't ok to share in a semi-public venue. I could be wrong though, obviously, this is just along the lines of what I was thinking.

The case is so old/cold, I'm highly doubtful things have changed since then. Also, this is a bad time for Grandview Police - they are in the middle of investigating a brutal murder of a woman and the impression I've gotten is that it's all hands on deck until they get it solved. First homicide in thirteen years, and a bad one at that, so it has everyone rattled. I doubt there's a detective available right now to talk cold cases with as it's a small police department.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/08/12/grandview-homicide.html

 

[nerosleuth]

The case is so old/cold, I'm highly doubtful things have changed since then. Also, this is a bad time for Grandview Police - they are in the middle of investigating a brutal murder of a woman and the impression I've gotten is that it's all hands on deck until they get it solved. First homicide in thirteen years, and a bad one at that, so it has everyone rattled. I doubt there's a detective available right now to talk cold cases with as it's a small police department.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/08/12/grandview-homicide.html

Not only are the Grandview Heights PD in the middle of an murder investigation, they're also looking for a serial flasher since the beginning of this summer who has been exposing himself at night to women walking on neighborhood streets in Grandview Heights.

 

[RainyAlaska]

For those readers wondering why Lola's case was closed the first time, please see the second post in this thread by Shadowangel (2/24/2006).

I've noticed some discrepancies in the neighbor's report of seeing Lola headed for the bus. Please note, the neighbor was cleared by the police so these differences are just curious to me.

1) Columbus Dispatch newspaper article dated March 2, 1946, Lola's neighbor told reporters he boarded the bus at Westwood Avenue & W. First Avenue. In the Columbus Citizen newspaper article dated March 3, 1946, Lola's neighbor told reporters he boarded the bus at Glenn Avenue & S. First Avenue. Did the neighbor change his story or did the news reporters just get it wrong? It's probably the reporters but it's noteworthy IMHO. (See Nerosleuth's Post #179 on 3/08/2013)

2) Lola's neighbor said that he waited about 10 minutes for his bus as mentioned in "Lola Celli Timeline" in the Columbus Citizen on March 3, 1946. (Nerosleuth's Post #161) but "...the bus driver remembered him because he was a bit winded when he got on,..." (see GuyO's Post #177 from a stack of Columbus Dispatch clippings). Which story is accurate? If the neighbor had to wait 10 minutes for the bus to arrive why would he be winded? Newspapers may have been wrong or got bad information. I can see how that could happen with a very public case.

3) The neighbor was the last person to see Lola that day as far as the police were able to determine. Again, the neighbor was cleared by the police so I only want to state that the last person to see a missing person is scrutinized closely. [MOO]

4) The neighbor was very aware of Lola's movements that day and very interested in my opinion. Perhaps it was something as simple as a neighborly crush on the pretty girl across the street. He asked where she was going, was aware that she wasn't on the bus, and looked for her 2-3 hours downtown before heading home. If I knew my neighbor was going downtown to a few specific businesses, I would not spend 2 or 3 hours looking for him/her. [MOO]

A big THANK YOU to Nerosleuth and GuyO for posting summaries from the newspaper articles. All of this post is my own opinion unless otherwise noted.

 

[masootz]

For those readers wondering why Lola's case was closed the first time, please see the second post in this thread by Shadowangel (2/24/2006).

I've noticed some discrepancies in the neighbor's report of seeing Lola headed for the bus. Please note, the neighbor was cleared by the police so these differences are just curious to me.

1) Columbus Dispatch newspaper article dated March 2, 1946, Lola's neighbor told reporters he boarded the bus at Westwood Avenue & W. First Avenue. In the Columbus Citizen newspaper article dated March 3, 1946, Lola's neighbor told reporters he boarded the bus at Glenn Avenue & S. First Avenue. Did the neighbor change his story or did the news reporters just get it wrong? It's probably the reporters but it's noteworthy IMHO. (See Nerosleuth's Post #179 on 3/08/2013)

2) Lola's neighbor said that he waited about 10 minutes for his bus as mentioned in "Lola Celli Timeline" in the Columbus Citizen on March 3, 1946. (Nerosleuth's Post #161) but "...the bus driver remembered him because he was a bit winded when he got on,..." (see GuyO's Post #177 from a stack of Columbus Dispatch clippings). Which story is accurate? If the neighbor had to wait 10 minutes for the bus to arrive why would he be winded? Newspapers may have been wrong or got bad information. I can see how that could happen with a very public case.

3) The neighbor was the last person to see Lola that day as far as the police were able to determine. Again, the neighbor was cleared by the police so I only want to state that the last person to see a missing person is scrutinized closely. [MOO]

4) The neighbor was very aware of Lola's movements that day and very interested in my opinion. Perhaps it was something as simple as a neighborly crush on the pretty girl across the street. He asked where she was going, was aware that she wasn't on the bus, and looked for her 2-3 hours downtown before heading home. If I knew my neighbor was going downtown to a few specific businesses, I would not spend 2 or 3 hours looking for him/her. [MOO]

A big THANK YOU to Nerosleuth and GuyO for posting summaries from the newspaper articles. All of this post is my own opinion unless otherwise noted.

good sleuthing. it would be interesting to run the neighbor's name just to double-check anything else that might stick out.

 

[JWD]

By Lola's neighbor I mean the man who lived across the street from Lola's parents.

On page 6 of this forum nerosleuth begins posting his summaries of newpaper articles about Lola's disappearance:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36718&page=6

On page 7 nerosleuth gives his timeline of Lola's disappearance which states
"The neighbor was Lola's childhood friend.":
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36718&page=7http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36718&page=7

I assume nerosleuth got that statement from a newspaper article.

The neighbor having known Lola since childhood may be part of the reason the police cleared him. It could explain why he looked for her on the bus and downtown. However, it doesn't mean he didn't also have a crush on Lola.

I too would like to know the neighbor's name.

 

[JWD]

The neighbor living across the street from Lola's parents--lived with his mother, according to the newspapers. His dad could have been alive during the 1940 Census (below), but died by the time Lola vanished.

Does anyone know how house numbers ran on West 3rd Avenue in the 1940s? Were odd-numbered houses (example: 1, 3, 5, 7) on one side of the street, and even-numbers (example: 2, 4, 6, 8) on the other side? Or did they run consecutively: 1, 2, 3, 4 on one side of the street, and 5, 6, 7, 8 on the other side?

Series: T627 Roll: 3068 Page: 18-B
On the April 25, 1940 Census:
Lola Celli (age 18), lived with: her parents, Michael (age 43) & Ida (age 39); her brother Felix (age 17); and her sister Elda (age 8); at 1783 West 3rd Avenue, Franklin Township, Grandview Heights City, Franklin County, Ohio. In 1935, the family resided in the same place (which means the same area but not the same house).

Michael's Occupation: Painter & Odd Jobs. Ida's Occupation is illegible. Michael and Ida both have 8 years of education. Lola and Felix both have 2 years of high school.

The Celli household was the first home listed for West 3rd Ave. It was about one-third of the way down sheet 18-B. The names above them were on West 1st Ave.

The 1940 Census had two people on each sheet answer extra questions. Lola was one of the two. Info given: Lola was a student. Both her parents were born in Italy. We already knew the latter from the regular section, which listed Elda's birthplace as Ohio and everyone else's as Italy.

Other Houses Listed below them on West 3rd Avenue – Sheet 18-B:

1796: La TEDESCHI, Antonio (49) head, Mary (46) wife, Rose (21) daughter, and Vincent (age 20) son.

1802: Had 3 sections of the same family listed, without a line break between them, living in the same house:
LANE, Samuel (65) head, Consiglia (59) wife.
FRAZZINI, Margaret (36) Daughter, Mary or May (17) granddaughter, Elsio(sp?) (14) granddaughter, Nancy (12) granddaughter, Margaret (8) granddaughter, Edward (6) grandson.
LANE, Anna (34) daughter, Jannie (28) daughter, Joseph (26) son, Harry (21) son.

1809: CLIFTON, John F. (57) head, Blanche L. (46) wife, Lucille B. (16) daughter.

1819: McCARTHY, Felix P. (48) head, Ann M. (42) wife.

(1823: the last two digits--23--had a line drawn through them, and 16 written above them = 1816)
1816: FINNALL, William C.? or G.? (38) head, Thelma (37) wife. (I don't know if they had any kids because Thelma was the last line on the sheet.)

The census taker's vowels were written so tiny (and his capital letters written with swirls) I found them hard to decipher sometimes. There's a William H. FINNELL on Find-a-Grave. Born 1896, died 1972, buried in Franklin County. He would have been 44, not 38, in 1940.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSfn=William&GSmn=&GSln=Finnell&GSbyrel=in&GSby=&GSdyrel=in&GSdy=&GScntry=4&GSst=37&GScnty=2064&GSgrid=&df=all&GSob=n

So, Page 18-B gives us only 2 names of males reasonably close enough to Lola's age to be her childhood friend. And I don't know which side of the street they lived on. I can't access Page 19 without going to the library. I'm unable to do that anytime soon.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[MBWebb11212]

I'm new to this board adn this was the first forum post I started reading and I am very intrigued. For me, I keep going back to the neighbor.......there are so many posts that I can't quite remember where I read it but I thought I saw some place that the neighbor didn't call out to Lola because he wasn't sure she was going to the bus station but then there was another account where she did see him and he went in to put his shoes on.

Although, the neighbor was cleared by the police, I think it's possible they may have been wrong. There are several inconsistencies and, if going by the neighbor's account, how would there be enough time for someone to either harm or kidnap Lola and get away without any signs of a struggle, no screams or anything? I know the bus driver claims he saw the neighbor get on the bus, but, unless he knew the neighbor personally, how can you recall the face of every person getting on and off your bus?

There really isn't any concrete evidence in my theory but that's just where my head and my gut keep going. I was really hoping that by the time I finished reading all the posts a discovery would have been made.

We know she wouldn't run off voluntarily or get in a car with someone she didn't know, in fact it sounds like she may not even get into a car with someone she did know because of how conservative she was. I just can't fathom how someone could have kidnapped her without so much as a sound or no trace of a struggle anywhere.

I also think the motorist who saw the couple arguing in the coupe and a red shoe subsequently fell out of the window, is a red herring. Just a coincidence.

It really does seem like she simply vanished into thin air. Maybe she was abducted by aliens, lol (joke)

 

[Veidt]

The case is so old/cold, I'm highly doubtful things have changed since then. Also, this is a bad time for Grandview Police - they are in the middle of investigating a brutal murder of a woman and the impression I've gotten is that it's all hands on deck until they get it solved. First homicide in thirteen years, and a bad one at that, so it has everyone rattled. I doubt there's a detective available right now to talk cold cases with as it's a small police department.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/public/2013/08/12/grandview-homicide.html

Sorry, I didn't mean to say there was anything new, but that perhaps some information that wasn't divulged at the time could be divulged now. We also have some contradictory reports from articles, like the neighbor and whether Lola did or didn't see him, which could perhaps be clarified.

Of course, I didn't know about the homicide so I agree it's best to wait until they're less busy. That's a really horrible story and I hope they catch the perp. (And the serial flasher who nerosleuth mentioned.)

For those readers wondering why Lola's case was closed the first time, please see the second post in this thread by Shadowangel (2/24/2006).

Thanks. After I asked that question I ended up remembering that and that the man who said she was alive later recanted his statement.

I believe there's some discussion on the neighbor and his conflicting statements somewhere in this thread, around page 5 or maybe later (I can't remember, but I remember that we talked about how he could have seen her from the window).

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I don't know if I've said this before at any point but, I wonder how the neighbor would have abducted Lola if it was him. From what I remember, the accounts mentioned his mother was at home with him (I think she was even in the same room as him?).

If he spotted Lola and invited her inside, I assume his mother would notice. He could say he was leaving as he intended to do but then she likely would have heard him coming back inside. Lola would be talking to him, as well, so his mother would hear that. In those days it would have reflected poorly on his mother to not invite Lola to sit down with them and have something to eat or drink, etc. Likewise, in those days I think it would have seemed weird for a young man to not invite her to the living room or some such, and to have taken her somewhere else in the house. The only way I can think of that he could have made it plausible would be if he said his mother was very ill and resting and they couldn't make noise talking. :twocents:

From what I understand, after Lola, the neighbor and his mother talked, it would have been seen as unusual in those days for him to then take Lola to somewhere else in the house without his mother and I don't think neither of the women would have been ok with that. It's not like nowadays where, if I go to the house of a friend, it's only normal to greet the friend's parents and then go to the friend's room to chat, regardless of the friend's gender, you know?

So unless his mother was in on it I don't think he invited Lola into the house.

The other scenario is, he asks Lola to wait or catches up with her and offers to drive her somewhere. We know Lola was very proper and wouldn't take a ride from people she didn't know and maybe even people she knew but weren't part of the family, because she didn't think it was proper. So, I don't think she would have accepted, unless their families were so close she thought of him as a brother. IMO even if she had feelings for him, I don't think she would have taken the chance of being seen alone with him in a car if it was against her personal opinions.

But maybe he went with her or followed her, and abducted her elsewhere. If he greeted her (I believe one the reports said something like that?) then maybe he also asked her in passing where she was going and had an idea from that, or maybe he knew a bit about where Lola was likely to be shopping.

If it took place outside of the house then I think that his mother could have known of nothing and been unable to (unintentionally) stop it. Or if for example, he asked Lola to wait and joined her outside immediately, maybe he then told his mother he walked her to the bus stop and nothing happened etc. and was afraid LE would suspect him, so she helped him pretend that didn't happened... IF he was the perp that is.

Another thing I'm wondering is the layout of that house and whether it's confirmed his mother was with him. Because the latter could have been reported on wrongly. The layout could be important because if he did it, maybe there was a back entrance or the room where his mother was was distant from the front door, etc.

I don't know if it would have been the neighbor, though. Also, was it usual for the area to have so few people around? Because if there was a chance that another neighbor could be outside or home and looking through the window for some reason, it sounds like it would be a big risk to lie when someone else could come forward and say they witnessed something that contradicted him. I think that the contradiction in the newspaper reports could be due to a failure in communication, maybe his statement was that he saw her, she saw him, but he didn't ask where she was going and didn't know so he just expected to see her at the bus stop and she wasn't there, and it was turned into two different versions.

:twocents:, :moo:, etc.

As time goes by I increasingly believe the red shoe the cab driver mentioned was a red herring but who knows.