OH - Three students killed in Chardon High School shooting, 27 Feb 2012

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I'm not surprised by this. I have expressed from the beginning i never felt that TJ was one of the typical profiles. He looks hollow to me. Void of emotion. Gaunt in appearance from pictures we saw of somebody who once had some muscle yet still slight. Somebody who was failing in school yet was excelling in his program now and working to Graduate early. Early reports hinted of some trouble in the home over the years. We heard of the Grandparents who stepped in and tried. I think it was too late. He was damaged and fractured. It just took one trigger to set him off. One last rejection. I wish he could have been saved and the lives of those he took. He deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest for what he has done. I just never felt he was a vicious killer who gained delight from what he had done. He is a killer and now he must pay. Yet there may be some horrors of his life we may never learn. Yet his Parents will live on. Heartbreaking all of it.

This is exactly how I feel as well.

Also, I don't think that the prosecutor was out of line at all by saying this was an unwell kid. I didn't take what he said as trying to diagnose him as having a mental illness, unable to stand trial. Listening to everything he said, I can understand what he meant.

It is just so tragic.

JMHO
 
How exactly is he different from other high school shooters? They are all troubled.
 
I see it as he didn't have a chance from the beginning. Everything was stacked agianst him. How does one determine if this will be the outcome from a troubled home life? We can't, imo. Tragic, all the way around, jmo
 
I agree jj. One week after they broke up. Not random. With the young man still in the hospital with 4 gunshot wounds, it wasn't random.

Here's an article about the other Ohio student who was posting threats online that was arrested. Hope it's not a repeat.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ifle-writing-hooting-school-article-1.1031455

I personally think he deserves his punishment but also feel he needs some mental help while serving.


Facebook post from my niece on the westside of Cleveland that her school went into evacuation yesterday due to a bomb threat. She said 5 other schools around the area also. It's too bad these kids can't just go to school without all these threats and worries. My other niece near Chardon has now made the decision to home school her daughter after this incident. Sad that this is the new normal :(
 
O/T school shooting again.......Arizona..just read on AOL.com news
 
O/T school shooting again.......Arizona..just read on AOL.com news
I read earlier on Comast's home page about a fatal stabbing at a Chicago high school yesterday - I think it was.

We need to see the stats of these events. They happen everyday. Everywhere. It is getting worse - JMHO.

Back in 1998 or '99 I was teaching 5th grade and we had a drive-by shooting at the school I was in. My students were out on the walkway/hallway lining up to go to computer lab. It was very very scary and I still have the newpaper clipping about it.

Safety in our schools needs to be first and foremost and its not. And that is a shame.


JMHO
 
No sometimes despite intervention and those that try so hard to save the troubled child we lose and we cant predict. Ya wanna know what angers me to no end that we pretty much can predict? Not just in this case but many others and I'm not even speaking to this particular crime. I'm talking lousy broken Parents who expose children to violence and gawd knows what else. I believe the breakdown starts when a Parent is proven unfit. For me that is a standard well differed from what the Law allows. Yet these children are put back in these environments or at the very least still exposed. It sickens me to no end. It's all about uniting the Family. Well i have a very different view of Family and what it means. In my opinion thats is exactly why we are here today and reading the horrors we read. Of course i believe there are some no matter the wonderful Parenting who do bad things. Yet so many who could have been saved.
 
I have no answers but i think the level of crime is a wake up call and has been for a very long time. Put the security in the school systems to keep the kids and teachers safe. The CPS is in need of a major overhaul and funding. If we cant protect and see to the future of our future children what's left. What is left is what we see today. Breaks my heart.
 
I read earlier on Comast's home page about a fatal stabbing at a Chicago high school yesterday - I think it was.

We need to see the stats of these events. They happen everyday. Everywhere. It is getting worse - JMHO.

Back in 1998 or '99 I was teaching 5th grade and we had a drive-by shooting at the school I was in. My students were out on the walkway/hallway lining up to go to computer lab. It was very very scary and I still have the newpaper clipping about it.

Safety in our schools needs to be first and foremost and its not. And that is a shame.


JMHO

I'd love to read statistics and compare to the last 50 years or so. Some pundits have claimed it is getting worse others say it wasn't reported on national news before and there wasn't a 24/7 news cycle. I'd love to know the facts though.
There's more people so, that could be a contributing factor.
 
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting"]School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Someone posted this earlier in the thread. Pretty interesting, but certainly scary! I noted that most involved guns.

Note: Chardon has already been added
 
We need to see the stats of these events. They happen everyday. Everywhere. It is getting worse - JMHO.
JMHO


http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_violence.html

Link shows stats specifically for school-associated violent deaths ( homicides, suicides, or other violent, non-accidental deaths). The number of deaths goes up and down over the last 12 years, but there IS NOT an upward trend ..... perhaps even a decline over the past five years.
 
Did this doctor see TJ? How in the world could she diagnose or say what TJ lived, felt, was going through etc? The prosecutor was wrong is saying TJ is "not well", only a physician who is treating TJ should be diagnosing him. IMO - it is very unprofessional for anyone who is not treating him or testing him to make said comments regarding his mental health. Period. Yes, he may have all of these things, he may have none of them.

When will Dr. Phil and Dr. Drew be diagnosing him? :silenced:

The video's and pictures of all the students marching to school are amazing. The heart they formed brought tears to my eyes. I wish I knew how to post pictures.

Remembering the victims. Praying each day gets easier for all.

The prosecutor has the most to lose by commenting on TJ's mental health. Why would he say that TJ is not well? To potentially lose his own case? Or maybe because he is a Juris Doctor and this is what he believes and therefore, this is how he wants to ethically approach this case?

Why would he comment unless this is what he genuinely believed? I would tend to see this as professional and ethical rather than unprofessional. Most of the time, the truth is very unpopular and it takes an ethical prosecutor to speak up and not play the game of politics, and simply pander to the masses. He could be reactionary if he wanted, he is clearly not doing so, why not?

Regarding the article, I'm not sure that this very experienced psychologist, with expertise in teenage trauma and psychology actually diagnosed TJ. Rather, she seemed to be speaking out about the effects and awareness regarding teenage mental illness, bullying, and depression. She never diagnosed, she surmised, and pondered what we could learn and do to prevent these tragedies.

Dr. Phil has much more to gain by "diagnosing" TJ than the prosecutor does. Stating that someone is "not well" is not a diagnosis, It is an opinion and in light of the gag order, I am assuming at this point, it is an informed one. I would hardly compare a daytime/zoologist/ "psychologist" dependent on sensationalism, ratings, and fame, to a nameless faceless prosecutor with way more to lose.

I too pray for the victims, for their families, and also for the students that have to return and acclimate to their school which should have been safe but instead has been turned into a place of terror and trauma.

I will also remember Demitrius' mother who is more forgiving and enlightened than I could ever be.

I will also keep TJ's grandparents in my thoughts. I am sure they are going through a *ell of their own.

And I will keep TJ in my thoughts, for the padlocked doors, the substance abuse, the trauma, the abandonment, the childhood he never had. For the parents and society that failed him and for the fact that one day when he snaps out of his fog, he will have to truly face the horror that he inflicted on so many and he will never be able to take it back.

There are no winners. There are no monsters. Just overwhelming tragedy, everywhere that you look.
 
I read earlier on Comast's home page about a fatal stabbing at a Chicago high school yesterday - I think it was.



JMHO

This is the third teen killed this week in Chicago. Read an article last week that more people are killed in Chicago in a month than are killed in Afghanistan.

Only criminals have guns in Chicago , there is a gun ban for normal people, just the gangs bangers and they are in control of the city.
 
Sure doesn't sound "random" does it? Before prosecutor starts commenting, I suggest he looks into the facts.

perhaps he knows something we don't.

i find the prosecutor, so far, to be admirable. it seems many are upset that he spoke of tj as being ''unwell.'' why? perhaps that's just the sad truth?

when the families who actually lost children are able to accept this, why can't we?

the best course of action is not always to throw someone in jail and consider it case closed. the best course of action sometimes takes a lot more work than that.
 
perhaps he knows something we don't.

i find the prosecutor, so far, to be admirable. it seems many are upset that he spoke of tj as being ''unwell.'' why? perhaps that's just the sad truth?

when the families who actually lost children are able to accept this, why can't we?

the best course of action is not always to throw someone in jail and consider it case closed. the best course of action sometimes takes a lot more work than that.

Oh perhaps he doesn't know something we do. I personally think its rather clear prosecutor was making his comments before even knowing the facts. And yes, if someone goes to school and kills 3 people I think the best course of action is lock them up and throw away the keys.
 
perhaps he knows something we don't.

i find the prosecutor, so far, to be admirable. it seems many are upset that he spoke of tj as being ''unwell.'' why? perhaps that's just the sad truth?

when the families who actually lost children are able to accept this, why can't we?

the best course of action is not always to throw someone in jail and consider it case closed. the best course of action sometimes takes a lot more work than that.

Yeah, I'm not getting the tempest in the teapot over the prosecutor's remarks. They're probably true - kids who commit these types of events are generally "not well." Everyone know this. It's not going to taint the jury pool. It's not going to let TJ off and walk. It's a verbal acknowledgement that the situation is terrible.

From a defense perspective, I really don't see that statement as any sort of "gotcha" that could help the case. First, if they want to prove any sort of incompetence/mental break - it's going to take far, far more than that to make that high hurdle. When they get to the mitigation phase of sentencing, it's also not going to amount to much. Again, you need far, far more than the simple statement from the prosecutor to evoke emotion from the judge/jury to get a downward trend in sentencing.

From what we know, this kid had a troubled background. He behaved in a somewhat irregular manner immediately following the shooting. The fact that he even chose to come to school and shoot - that's a sign that he's not well. It's not a psych eval. It's not a free pass. It's an acknowledgement of a crappy situation. I think people are making far more out of it than needs be.
 
The prosecutor has the most to lose by commenting on TJ's mental health. Why would he say that TJ is not well? To potentially lose his own case? Or maybe because he is a Juris Doctor and this is what he believes and therefore, this is how he wants to ethically approach this case?

Why would he comment unless this is what he genuinely believed? I would tend to see this as professional and ethical rather than unprofessional. Most of the time, the truth is very unpopular and it takes an ethical prosecutor to speak up and not play the game of politics, and simply pander to the masses. He could be reactionary if he wanted, he is clearly not doing so, why not?

Regarding the article, I'm not sure that this very experienced psychologist, with expertise in teenage trauma and psychology actually diagnosed TJ. Rather, she seemed to be speaking out about the effects and awareness regarding teenage mental illness, bullying, and depression. She never diagnosed, she surmised, and pondered what we could learn and do to prevent these tragedies.

Dr. Phil has much more to gain by "diagnosing" TJ than the prosecutor does. Stating that someone is "not well" is not a diagnosis, It is an opinion and in light of the gag order, I am assuming at this point, it is an informed one. I would hardly compare a daytime/zoologist/ "psychologist" dependent on sensationalism, ratings, and fame, to a nameless faceless prosecutor with way more to lose.

I too pray for the victims, for their families, and also for the students that have to return and acclimate to their school which should have been safe but instead has been turned into a place of terror and trauma.

I will also remember Demitrius' mother who is more forgiving and enlightened than I could ever be.

I will also keep TJ's grandparents in my thoughts. I am sure they are going through a *ell of their own.

And I will keep TJ in my thoughts, for the padlocked doors, the substance abuse, the trauma, the abandonment, the childhood he never had. For the parents and society that failed him and for the fact that one day when he snaps out of his fog, he will have to truly face the horror that he inflicted on so many and he will never be able to take it back.

There are no winners. There are no monsters. Just overwhelming tragedy, everywhere that you look.

BBM

Spice, may I respectfully point out, that a Juris Doctorate does not make the prosecutor a doctor of medicine, or even a trained psychologist. He may have more to lose by his statement than a Dr. Phil or Dr. Drew, but he is certainly no more qualified to render even a casual diagnosis.

I dare say many of us think that a person who could commit such a horrendous crime is "not well", but it doesn't necessarily follow that the person is so mentally ill that they are incapable of understanding the unlawfulness or the consequences of their actions.
 

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