Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

[dotr]

Wondering if for example, one frequently or only ate Mexican food, if hair/nail samples would suggest a connection to that area even if you never or seldom went to Mexico?
speculation, imo, rbbm.
http://www.sfu.museum/forensics/eng/pg_media-media_pg/isotopes/

Bone is a living tissue, and remodels over time, it is replaced as we growth and get older. However, this process is relatively slow and dense cortical bone reflects approximately the last 10-15 years of an individual's life.

Teeth also consist of organic and inorganic materials, but unlike bone, once formed, dental enamel does not remodel. Consequently, teeth are very useful for determining the environment and conditions of an individual's early life. (i.e., when their teeth formed). In addition, comparisons of teeth and bone tissues in a single individual whether a person moved geographic locations since childhood: their teeth will show where they lived where they were young and their bones will show where they lived in the years before their death.

Hair and fingernails may also be useful for isotopic analyses. Although they are more fragile than bone, they grow at predictable rates, and reflect an individual's very recent past. This may be useful for determining if an individual recently changed locations or for studying seasonal dietary changes.

Finally, blood and soft tissues can also be used for some isotopic studies. However, these materials decay quickly and may be more prone to contamination.

Similarly it may not be possible to distinguish two populations if they lived in similar climates or ate the same kinds of foods. Even though they may be culturally distinct, the isotopic signatures will look very similar. In contrast, a dietary signature indicating foreign foods may merely indicate that a group was importing foods from elsewhere, rather than having migrated themselves

 

[annie970]

Warmth and love to their family.

All of you that have put in such tremendous effort in keeping this alive are incredible. Much love to all involved with her best interest in mind <3

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[Gardener1850]

Wondering if for example, one frequently or only ate Mexican food, if hair/nail samples would suggest a connection to that area even if you never or seldom went to Mexico?
speculation, imo, rbbm.
http://www.sfu.museum/forensics/eng/pg_media-media_pg/isotopes/

This topic is so fascinating to me. I have wondered about this in regards to drinking bottled water. I have lived a few places where the well water was not pleasant to drink (no city water available) and we bought bottled spring water exclusively for drinking and cooking. Would my isotopes show a connection to the place my water was bottled instead of where I actually lived? I suppose drinking only bottled water would not be too common in the 1980's but I have still wondered this.... :thinking:

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Have wondered the same ... was born in one state, raised in another and have lived in another for 20 years So would the isotopes show the last 20 years if they were looking for family they sure wouldnt find them here.

 

[AggieLou]

In all due respect of the family I'm starting to think we should just close the thread and stop all discussions of BG that way there is no question of what can or cannot be discussed.

I realize this is likely tongue in cheek. But they wouldn't know what happened to her if it weren't for Websleuths which eventually led to her DNA being accepted for analysis. I totally get privacy concerns. I'm thinking most of the idiots harassing probably came from Reddit. There have been other threads Reddit and Websleuths had in common where some people on Reddit went absolutely rabid over things and were attacking others on the thread left and right.
But anyway if there's a murder investigation looking like it's going anywhere it should be here. I'm sorry for the family but all of us should be permitted to be informed.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

This topic is so fascinating to me. I have wondered about this in regards to drinking bottled water. I have lived a few places where the well water was not pleasant to drink (no city water available) and we bought bottled spring water exclusively for drinking and cooking. Would my isotopes show a connection to the place my water was bottled instead of where I actually lived? I suppose drinking only bottled water would not be too common in the 1980's but I have still wondered this.... :thinking:

The move towards drinking bottled water is indeed reported to be having an effect on the isotopes found in people today.

It's possible that it's not necessarily worth shipping vast quantities of a low value item like bottled water from one end of the US to the other, so regionally or locally bottled mineral water supplies may well be sold predominantly within the same region, and therefore it might not make as big a difference as one might expect.

On the other hand here in the UK we routinely see national distribution of Scottish and Malvern bottled waters, and European brands such as Volvic (from the Auvergne region of France) and San Pellegrino (Italy), so maybe shipping water around the US is cost effective after all.

I can't help suspecting that this is going to have a forensic impact now and in the future.

 

[Alleykins]

Have wondered the same ... was born in one state, raised in another and have lived in another for 20 years So would the isotopes show the last 20 years if they were looking for family they sure wouldnt find them here.

I found this, it's similar to what you're wondering

This study investigated the impact of purchase location on the stable isotope ratios of beverages by measuring the &#948;2H and &#948;18O values of bottled water, soda, beer, and tap water collected across the contiguous United States. Measured beverage &#948;2H and &#948;18O values generally fit the Global Meteoric Water Line (GMWL), suggesting region-of-origin information is recorded in beverage water. Tap water &#948;2H and &#948;18O values were strongly correlated with the stable isotope ratios of bottled water and soda purchased in the same location. Beer water &#948;2H and &#948;18O values were also correlated with tap water, although not as strongly. Variability in &#948;2H and &#948;18O values among beverages purchased at a single location ranged from 2 to 41&#8240; and from 0.3 to 5.2&#8240;, respectively, but was generally moderate in most locations. It was concluded that the isotopic composition of local tap water is a reasonable proxy for consumers&#8217; fluid intake in most U.S. cities.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf1003539

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

I don't see a problem with discussing the case if we leave out names and specific areas that the family are currently living in.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don&#8217;t know why I am so skeptical about this apparent identification, but I remain so.

 

[Two for the road]

I realize this is likely tongue in cheek. But they wouldn't know what happened to her if it weren't for Websleuths which eventually led to her DNA being accepted for analysis. I totally get privacy concerns. I'm thinking most of the idiots harassing probably came from Reddit. There have been other threads Reddit and Websleuths had in common where some people on Reddit went absolutely rabid over things and were attacking others on the thread left and right.
But anyway if there's a murder investigation looking like it's going anywhere it should be here. I'm sorry for the family but all of us should be permitted to be informed.

I agree to some degree with your statement. I do not think this thread should be shut down because of this because a) we have rules here at WS, and b) we still don't have an official identification. Until there is a formal statement made then I feel buckskin girl and ONLY buckskin girl should be allowed to be discussed. While we may have a name and such to work with, the focus shifts to not who she was but who killed her.

I think we all have better decorum here as to know better than to contact families and bully them. Even if they hated her and didn't report her missing because of it, they had every right not to and that's not for us to judge. I feel incredibly sad for the family and am a little miffed that DNA Doe Project reached out to them on Good Friday and potentially ruined their holiday. I am incredibly miffed that it went into a downward spiral of humanities finest coming out of the woodwork to berate them for something they had no idea about. They didn't have to come forward at all and now that they have and were attacked, we may never have official answers. But for now, I think we should just leave the family and location out of the equation and sleuth what we came here to sleuth... Buckskin girl... Her killer and how she wound up in that field decades ago.

 

[CarlK90245]

I realize this is likely tongue in cheek. But they wouldn't know what happened to her if it weren't for Websleuths which eventually led to her DNA being accepted for analysis. I totally get privacy concerns. I'm thinking most of the idiots harassing probably came from Reddit. There have been other threads Reddit and Websleuths had in common where some people on Reddit went absolutely rabid over things and were attacking others on the thread left and right.

But anyway if there's a murder investigation looking like it's going anywhere it should be here. I'm sorry for the family but all of us should be permitted to be informed.

Anyone who is that personality type probably has either already been banned or got bored with the level of discourse and went elsewhere.

 

[Alleykins]

I agree to some degree with your statement. I do not think this thread should be shut down because of this because a) we have rules here at WS, and b) we still don't have an official identification. Until there is a formal statement made then I feel buckskin girl and ONLY buckskin girl should be allowed to be discussed. While we may have a name and such to work with, the focus shifts to not who she was but who killed her.

I think we all have better decorum here as to know better than to contact families and bully them. Even if they hated her and didn't report her missing because of it, they had every right not to and that's not for us to judge. I feel incredibly sad for the family and am a little miffed that DNA Doe Project reached out to them on Good Friday and potentially ruined their holiday. I am incredibly miffed that it went into a downward spiral of humanities finest coming out of the woodwork to berate them for something they had no idea about. They didn't have to come forward at all and now that they have and were attacked, we may never have official answers. But for now, I think we should just leave the family and location out of the equation and sleuth what we came here to sleuth... Buckskin girl... Her killer and how she wound up in that field decades ago.

Do we know it was DDP who contacted the family? I thought they turned the information over to investigators to do that. Or did I misread it on their FB page how they would handle things?

 

[rats]

I realize this is likely tongue in cheek. But they wouldn't know what happened to her if it weren't for Websleuths which eventually led to her DNA being accepted for analysis. I totally get privacy concerns. I'm thinking most of the idiots harassing probably came from Reddit. There have been other threads Reddit and Websleuths had in common where some people on Reddit went absolutely rabid over things and were attacking others on the thread left and right.
But anyway if there's a murder investigation looking like it's going anywhere it should be here. I'm sorry for the family but all of us should be permitted to be informed.

I don’t think this should be blamed on Reddit. As someone who frequents both I have seen people of the same awful, harassing vein on both places. We just have more rules and moderators due to having far more members.
Also it’s kind of not fair to the family and also to Buckskin Girl herself to automatically assume that this is 100% her without waiting for LEOs to confirm. Also, if they want their privacy we should be decent human beings and give it to them. They did not ask for the level of intensity that web sleuths have. They’re mourning the loss of a sister/a daughter. I’m sure you would want the same privacy if it were you. Let’s move on to who killed her until we receive official word.

 

[Gardener1850]

Do we know it was DDP who contacted the family? I thought they turned the information over to investigators to do that. Or did I misread it on their FB page how they would handle things?

That's how I interpreted it as well-- that they would not be contacting matching potential family just turning info over to LE.

 

[rats]

Do we know it was DDP who contacted the family? I thought they turned the information over to investigators to do that. Or did I misread it on their FB page how they would handle things?

GEDmatch matches show on both sides. As soon as you are put in fully you are shown on peoples match pages and you can see your own matches. New matches within 30 days are denoted with a green background. They could have reached out themselves.

 

[annie970]

I don’t think this should be blamed on Reddit. As someone who frequents both I have seen people of the same awful, harassing vein on both places. We just have more rules and moderators due to having far more members.
Also it’s kind of not fair to the family and also to Buckskin Girl herself to automatically assume that this is 100% her without waiting for LEOs to confirm. Also, if they want their privacy we should be decent human beings and give it to them. They did not ask for the level of intensity that web sleuths have. They’re mourning the loss of a sister/a daughter. I’m sure you would want the same privacy if it were you. Let’s move on to who killed her until we receive official word.

I think my issue is that I'm thinking it's domestic abuse, which would mean we would have to know more about the victim and their relationships, and it's difficult to get that without tracing the family, which we won't do. Im curious what other people's thoughts are though

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[leilarose68]

GEDmatch matches show on both sides. As soon as you are put in fully you are shown on peoples match pages and you can see your own matches. New matches within 30 days are denoted with a green background. They could have reached out themselves.

Actually the DDP Does do not show up on everyone else's matches... they're marked as research. DDP has mentioned this a few times.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

I think my issue is that I'm thinking it's domestic abuse, which would mean we would have to know more about the victim and their relationships, and it's difficult to get that without tracing the family, which we won't do. Im curious what other people's thoughts are though

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I've thought that it wasn't domestic abuse (however it may have been) and that she was picked up while hitchhiking and murdered. During that time period I believe a serial killer was active. I think that someone had mentioned it on Reddit.

 

[Two for the road]

There was a cousin that said she was contacted. She didn't say if it was DDP or the police. I just assumed it was DDP, but either way it was a raunchy thing to do the day before a holiday weekend. Remember, DDP is run by volunteers, it is completely possible one of them went rogue and were eager to know the answer or "be the one that cracked the case" and didn't follow proper steps.

I don't think her murder was DV related. She had no other indicators of being a victim of domestic violence prior to her death such as fractures, healing bruises at ToD. I think it is quite possible she was hitchhiking, refused to give in to the "*advertiser censored*, grass, or cash" demand and paid dearly for it.

 

[Gardener1850]

I think my issue is that I'm thinking it's domestic abuse, which would mean we would have to know more about the victim and their relationships, and it's difficult to get that without tracing the family, which we won't do. Im curious what other people's thoughts are though

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Domestic violence could have come from a boyfriend her family wasn't even aware of-- especially if she had not contacted her family for a couple years prior to her death. Or this could be the work of a serial killer who picked her up while hitchhiking. Either way, I think if her family had not seen her for a while, it won't really help us to dig into their lives (besides it's against TOS to openly sleuth them here when they haven't been declared suspects by LE).