Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

[kimlo]

I think that is right, they only put the people on the list that have been directly compared. Otherwise everybody who had dna in the system would be on all of the rule out lists.

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[leonhardt]

They certainly have one hell of a resemblance. Especially in the eyebrows and nose! But I guess it would be an automatic rule out if her DNA is in the system.

You know a couple nights ago I had a dream that involved her being identified. I woke up feeling a bit uneasy and a bit hopeful. She has unique characteristics, someone knows her.

 

[Chuz Life]

I think that is right, they only put the people on the list that have been directly compared. Otherwise everybody who had dna in the system would be on all of the rule out lists.


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Exactly.

 

[Springrain]

They certainly have one hell of a resemblance. Especially in the eyebrows and nose! But I guess it would be an automatic rule out if her DNA is in the system.

You know a couple nights ago I had a dream that involved her being identified. I woke up feeling a bit uneasy and a bit hopeful. She has unique characteristics, someone knows her.

Oh, I know those UID dreams. I had one about 1999 Racine County Jane Doe not too long ago. When I woke up, I was saddened that they still don't know her name.

BG had really unique features which is why I think the MP person report probably wasn't filed, unless she is Vonnie Bales which seems very possible. I think she and Vonnie do look a lot alike and match up pretty well, but we've all seen close matches not pan out. I hope that access to DNA is obtained because, even if she's not BG she might be identified as another UID.

 

[Chuz Life]

Wendy has DNA in NamUs, wouldn't that be an automatic rule out? Though they do look close.

I don'the think that is correct.

I don't think so. The system is not set up to automatically find matches. The way one of the administrators explained it to me (2 years ago) is that the system only shows that the DNA is "on file." No comparisons are made unless they are selected and compared by an administrator.

I wish that NAMUS would offer more information on their website about the way matches and comparisons are made.

I think that is right, they only put the people on the list that have been directly compared. Otherwise everybody who had dna in the system would be on all of the rule out lists.

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Exactly.

However, (again) it's not automatic and fool proof. According to the NAMUS admin that I spoke with, just because DNA is available for both an (MP and a UID) - the match will not automatically be found or excluded.

Again, that was two years ago. I would like to know how the system works today.

Yes, but if DNA is processed and does not match up to hers, they will not put her on the rule out list since it is automatic.

I have asked for a direct comparison to be made several times now in this case. Yet, Wendy's name is still not on the exclusion's list. I have also contacted authorities in California and in Ohio and it keeps going stale.

So, we are trying something else (with a reporter this time) and we will see how that goes. I am not going to assume anything - whether the system is now automated or not.

 

[gayeld]

Wendy has DNA in NamUs, wouldn't that be an automatic rule out? Though they do look close.

It would depend on the type of DNA as well. If NAMUS has mitochondrial DNA for Wendy and nuclear for Buckskin girl, they could be the same person and not match no matter how many times they run it.

 

[Springrain]

It would depend on the type of DNA as well. If NAMUS has mitochondrial DNA for Wendy and nuclear for Buckskin girl, they could be the same person and not match no matter how many times they run it.

Isn't mitochondrial DNA typically used? I do see your point though. Is there a way of telling on the NamUs website if DNA submitted is mitochondrial or nuclear?

 

[CarlK90245]

Isn't mitochondrial DNA typically used? I do see your point though. Is there a way of telling on the NamUs website if DNA submitted is mitochondrial or nuclear?

The details pertaining to the types of DNA available for UID's used to be visible on NamUs. They changed it so that the public can't see it anymore. All you can see is whether DNA is available, but not whether mtDNA, nucDNA, or both.

mitochondrial (mtDNA) is the more common type compared. But nuclear (nucDNA) is more definitive. mtDNA is not unique to every human. nucDNA is unique to every human (except in the case of identical twins).

The trouble with nucDNA though, is that samples from two or more close relatives are needed to get a result.

But if there are no relatives in the maternal line available for the MP, they can't do a mtDNA comparison.

 

[Springrain]

The details pertaining to the types of DNA available for UID's used to be visible on NamUs. They changed it so that the public can't see it anymore. All you can see is whether DNA is available, but not whether mtDNA, nucDNA, or both.

mitochondrial (mtDNA) is the more common type compared. But nuclear (nucDNA) is more definitive. mtDNA is not unique to every human. nucDNA is unique to every human (except in the case of identical twins).

The trouble with nucDNA though, is that samples from two or more close relatives are needed to get a result.

But if there are no relatives in the maternal line available for the MP, they can't do a mtDNA comparison.

Why would they want to conceal the type from the public? And is that why Grateful Doe possibly being Jason Callahan is taking so long? I'm quite new at this.

 

[kimlo]

It seems to be, they are testing half siblings from his fathers side now. They already have his mothers dna.

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[Springrain]

Thanks for the info, kimlo--it's taking so long, isn't it? His poor mother.

Now I really want to know what kind of DNA BG and Wendy Byron have. Now here I was thinking it was an automatic rule out--you live, you learn, I guess.

 

[kimlo]

I do wonder how they would have called it if his mother was the only dna they had access to.

I thought dna was pretty simple, im learning its not as easy i had thought.

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[Springrain]

I do wonder how they would have called it if his mother was the only dna they had access to.

I thought dna was pretty simple, im learning its not as easy i had thought.

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I thought it'd be pretty straightforward too. Was I ever wrong.

I'm assuming they never had JC's dentals, seems that would be quick yes or no.

 

[Springrain]

I just now realized that BG has no NCMEC recon. I think Carl's recon is pretty much perfect when compared to the PM, and that NCMEC's recons are often...not the best. But most people take NCMEC's recons more seriously--which seems a bit confusing. My point is, I do wonder why NCMEC has no Buckskin Girl recon.

 

[CarlK90245]

H

I just now realized that BG has no NCMEC recon. I think Carl's recon is pretty much perfect when compared to the PM, and that NCMEC's recons are often...not the best. But most people take NCMEC's recons more seriously--which seems a bit confusing. My point is, I do wonder why NCMEC has no Buckskin Girl recon.

NCMEC only does recons (or age progressions) for people who were believed to be minors (or who went missing when they were minors). BG was likely in her early to mid 20's.

 

[Springrain]

H

NCMEC only does recons (or age progressions) for people who were believed to be minors (or who went missing when they were minors). BG was likely in her early to mid 20's.

But what about 1999 Racine County Jane Doe? And Blytheville Kim (and her companion). Sorry, just a bit confused...is this just a general rule? FWIW I think BG was probably on the later end of the age range.

 

[ice190]

H

NCMEC only does recons (or age progressions) for people who were believed to be minors (or who went missing when they were minors). BG was likely in her early to mid 20's.

That's ridiculous... so unfair.

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[leonhardt]

We learned all about mtDNA in a class I took on infectious disease last semester. I think the technology is also relatively recent. mtDNA tends to be used on older skeletons a bit more, if I'm remembering correct. It tends to last longer, and can be used on a wider range of relatives. For example, mtDNA comparison is how they identified the remains of the Romanov's a couple years ago. Their mtDNA was compared to that of Prince Philip, as his maternal grandmother was Empress Alexandera's sister. Fascinating stuff!

So I'd make the safe guess that they haven't used it for BG, but who knows! It's not exclusively for older skeletons, it's just a bit more common. And I honestly can only guess on how old is "old" in this case. She was found in '81, after all.

 

[Springrain]

We learned all about mtDNA in a class I took on infectious disease last semester. I think the technology is also relatively recent. mtDNA tends to be used on older skeletons a bit more, if I'm remembering correct. It tends to last longer, and can be used on a wider range of relatives. For example, mtDNA comparison is how they identified the remains of the Romanov's a couple years ago. Their mtDNA was compared to that of Prince Philip, as his maternal grandmother was Empress Alexandera's sister. Fascinating stuff!

So I'd make the safe guess that they haven't used it for BG, but who knows! It's not exclusively for older skeletons, it's just a bit more common. And I honestly can only guess on how old is "old" in this case. She was found in '81, after all.

Have you read Resurrection of the Romanovs? What a fascinating book it seems to be--I haven't finished yet, though.

Do you think it's probable that BG has both in NamUs? I know Walker County Jane Doe does, so many other Does do as well.

 

[leonhardt]

Have you read Resurrection of the Romanovs? What a fascinating book it seems to be--I haven't finished yet, though.

Do you think it's probable that BG has both in NamUs? I know Walker County Jane Doe does, so many other Does do as well.

I haven't! Though I should pick it up. WWI and the Russian Revolution have been a topic of interest recently, so thank you for the recommendation!

Maybe! They were found about a year apart, if I'm not mistaken. There's probably a bit of a push to have both for unidentified persons, as it's had a lot of accomplishments in recent years. Maybe I've just been reading up on the ones that have, but it seems to me there's been quite a few people who've gotten their names back from 2013 up until this year!