Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Patricia and BG may be similar but I'll be shocked if it's a match. We're talking 9 years. Patricia wasn't known to run away. I feel something happened to Patricia when she cut class, one of her friends knows what happened.
 
Patricia and BG may be similar but I'll be shocked if it's a match. We're talking 9 years. Patricia wasn't known to run away. I feel something happened to Patricia when she cut class, one of her friends knows what happened.

Exactly, which is why it is important for PS to still be treated as an mp in her own right as opposed to in the shadow of BG.
Either way, it is good that both cases are receiving attention!
imo.
 
Patricia and BG may be similar but I'll be shocked if it's a match. We're talking 9 years. Patricia wasn't known to run away. I feel something happened to Patricia when she cut class, one of her friends knows what happened.

I think we have looked at her a couple of times. And there was always some reason it has not progressed. I'm sure there is information we don't know about the case and that is why it hasn't gone beyond this.
 
I'd still like an official rule out if it's not her, but it sounds like they're not even entertaining idea, for whatever reason. I think every potential match deserves to at least have DNA compared. Here, it would be automatic, but Canada doesn't operate the same way we do.
 
I found the Amtrak railroad map from Spring 1981 showing the Amtrak routes that existed back then.

According to the Spring 1981 Amtrak map, the nearest Amtrak stations to Troy, Ohio were in Cincinnati, Ohio and Lima, Ohio on different Amtrak routes.

Now there was an Amtrak station in Dayton, Ohio, but it was closed in October 1979 when Amtrak’s National Limited route between New York City and Kansas City was discontinued.

The Amtrak station in Cincinnati served two Amtrak routes during Spring 1981.

The Shenandoah, operating between Washington, D.C. and Cincinnati, had stations in Ohio at Athens, Chillicothe, and Cincinnati along this route. The Shenandoah was discontinued in September 1981.

The Cardinal, which is still operating today between New York City and Chicago, only has one station in Ohio at Cincinnati.

The Amtrak station in Lima, Ohio served two Amtrak routes during Spring 1981.

It served the Broadway Limited operating between New York City and Chicago, and the Capital Limited operating between Washington D.C. and Chicago.

Both Amtrak routes stopped at the Amtrak station in Lima, Ohio until November 1990 when they were rerouted to other cities in Ohio. The Amtrak station in Lima, Ohio was closed afterwards.

I also must point out that Interstate 75 in Ohio goes thru Cincinnati, Dayton, Troy, Lima, Findlay, Bowling Green, and Toledo.

Sources:


http://history.amtrak.com/archives/1981-system-map


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Limited_(Amtrak_train)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenandoah_(Amtrak_train)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_(train)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_Limited


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Limited_(Amtrak_train)


http://wikimapia.org/5950912/Former-Lima-OH-Amtrak-Station
 

Attachments

  • Amtrak Map Spring 1981.jpg
    Amtrak Map Spring 1981.jpg
    141.8 KB · Views: 33
Wow, great research.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for the Amtrak research! So helpful.

BG had good overall hygiene, was properly dressed, basically healthy, etc. And we know she traveled quite a bit. So it is possible that she had a job, or was in a relationship with someone who did - somehow her needs seem to have been met. So it seems she may have been able to afford any number of travel options - including air, train, car, hitchhiking, etc. (At least we can probably rule out boat! :) ) With the pollen samples reported to have been in such good condition, and not having reports of pollen samples from areas between OK/TX and here (at least that were made publicly known), I began to consider the fact that perhaps she flew or took a train and thus was not exposed as much to pollen samples from points in between. It just struck me that if she was driving or hitchhiking, and stopping at times for gas or food or rest at hotels, campgrounds, or just rest areas, that we MIGHT have seen more diversity in pollen samples.

The downside I see to that is how and why would she have ended up in/near Troy from the airport or train station if she didn't have a vehicle, and if Cincy or wherever local wasn't her ultimate destination. For just a connecting flight/train or layover she might not even leave the airport or train station.

In any event, I think I can rule out train if the southern Ohio stations didn't even serve routes to/through the southwest.

Maybe it would be worth looking at Greyhound?
 
Totally forgot about the bus. I took it from Maine to Cleveland a couple of times in the late 80s because my ex went to Case Western. It was a long haul. We went through upstate NY and followed Lake Erie, iirc.
 
Hi everyone,

I posted this in Reddit, but wanted to post in on Websleuths since it seems to be more active. This is my first post here, so forgive me if I am not doing things correctly.

I have always followed the BG case, as I find it impossible to believe such a clear image of a person's face will forever go unrecognized. It's one of those things where you feel like someone HAS to recognize her, it's only a matter of time, right?
I periodically google BG to see if anyone has posted anything new, and the other day I came across a picture of Patricia Salamandyk that someone had posted on BG's facebook page and was immediately struck by the similarities in appearance. I started doing some research and found out the following (for those of you who are unfamiliar):
Apparently, Patricia went missing from her home in Spruce Grove (right outside Edmunton) in Canada in June of 1972 (she was 16 at this time). She had told her sister she was going to cut class that day and never returned home. She had not packed any of her belongings, had not had a fight, and did not seem to have a troubled home life, so it doesn’t appear to look like she ran away. No one has ever seen or heard from her again, however her family is still looking for her, and ran a news story about a year ago: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ch-help-solve-43-year-old-cold-case-1.3149569.

Since, as far as I had found, Patricia had not been ruled out, I started comparing the post-mortem picture with Patricia’s yearbook photo and started noticing some profound similarities. I tried making a composite of the two pictures, and had to step away for a little, as it’s upsetting. (Be warned, PM pictures). http://imgur.com/5zuhFw9 and here's a different level of transparency of that picture:http://imgur.com/9EbSM6e

I don’t know how common this is (and I am certainly not a forensic scientist), but all of the features match up perfectly, from the chin like to the widow’s peak. You can even see how she shaped her eyebrows from what they were before. The only thing that is off a bit is the nose, but I think that’s due to the angle. The post mortem picture was taken straight on, the yearbook photo was taken down at an angle, so that would explain the difference. The nose is still the same length/proportion.

On top of this, I believe that both images show a lower lip scar. In the PM picture it is quite clear, but if you look closely at the yearbook photo you can see, very faintly, a white line in the exact same position. Picture here: http://imgur.com/ywaPS9c Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me, but I'm pretty sure there is a faint line there. It probably would be more vivid in a higher quality, black and white. flash picture (like the PM one).

According to the Doe Network, Patricia was about 5’7’’ 120 lbs, I believe BG was reported to be around 5’6’’ (although I have read everywhere from 5’3’’ – 5’7’’ and 125-130 lbs). The coroner reported that BG might have grown up on a farm, it should be noted that Patricia grew up on a dairy farm. BG was reported to be age 18-26, in 1981 Patricia would’ve been 25-26. If this is a match, it is strange that she was alive for 9 whole years after her disappearance. However, this might explain why she was so hard to identify. Police would probably be concentrating their search around missing persons that disappeared around the time of her death. On top of that, being from Canada means that Patricia probably wouldn’t be in any databases (up until quite recently) where she would show up on searches. If she was in the US illegally (Canada has no reports of Patricia leaving the country legally- although this was the 70’s), and had been kidnapped, she probably wasn’t recognizable to a lot of people outside of the circle she was with (meaning she might not have held a regular job, had regular nearby family ties, etc). Her complexion change means she was spending a lot of time in the sun, is it possible she was being used as a drug runner, or was kidnapped for human trafficking (although I have read it is not suspected she was involved in sex trafficking, stated by the coroner)? It would explain why she was shut off to the outside world and couldn’t contact her family. It might also explain why, according to her isotope analysis, she was moving around so much.
There are some discrepancies- the moles on her face don’t seem to match (well, I think some of them do, but it’s really hard to tell). I can’t really say why, they could’ve faded over time, or maybe blended in with her complexion change. It was also reported that Patricia had a scar on her knee, and there was no report of this scar on BG. However, 9 years is a long time, and as a young person, the scar might have faded? I don’t know. I can’t say. But I think there are enough profound similarities to conclude that, if Patricia is not BG, then maybe she is her twin.
I am not the first person to make this comparison- two people have already mentioned this in a thread about BG and have contacted NAMUS and Carl (who does the composite images), and the department is ‘looking in to it’. I just thought this should be shared by the (very active) page on BG.

It’s all tragic. Awful. Whoever this girl was, she was and is loved. She still has a chance of justice. Thanks everyone for keeping her name out there.

FWIW, I think she is a dead ringer. The corner of the mouth is exactly the same with or without the scar. It's possible she became involved with someone her family didn't know about and decided to take off with him. If she lived on a farm, animals crossed the border back then just as easily as people. My business partner, who was a farmer at that time, used to truck cows back and forth to and from Canada all the time, particularly beef cows. It would be interesting to know more about the kind of farm Patricia lived on in Canada. If it was a busy beef farm, she could have met someone on her own farm who was from the States. Particularly the guy could have been from Texoma, did I spell that right? Was Texas big in the beef industry back then? She may have had a long-term relationship with this person, the person may still have been trucking animals back and forth and she would help him, and it could have turned into a domestic violence incident like many here have speculated.
 
I think Patricia and BG are dead ringers, too. That's why I've made as many submissions about her case as I have. The one missing mole, on the right side of her mouth, could have been removed with little to no scarring. The rest do match up, including a small blemish on the right side of her forehead almost hidden by her bangs. I'm not one who believes that every disappearance is due to foul play. I know that statistically, that is the norm, but it's not every single case. Patricia could have been the exception, and possibly made a life for herself outside of Canada, for those 9 years between her disappearance and BG's discovery. Yes, I could be mistaken, we've seen MPs look exactly like a JD before and have it ruled out by DNA. If it's not her, so be it, but I would really like to see that happen in this case instead of it being passed by because of the 9 years between disappearance and discovery, and one mole. They've considered JD's with less similarities in other cases.
 
Believe it or not moles can disappear or appear at anytime. Look it up or call a dermatologist. It's true. It's also been suggested that BG may not have been in possession of that jacket for a long period of time.
She was found on state route 55 on the west side of I75 just outside of Troy. Whoever dumped her, I bet knew the area.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_State_Route_55
 
Hi all,

This is my first time posting on this forum (only 2nd post ever!) so I apologize if this has previously been adressed, with 135 pages Im still catching up.

While I have no ideas to contribute to her identity I am curious if convicted murderer Joseph Benasutti was ever considered as a suspect in her death. While JB was not caught until 1995, he was in the area in 81. Greenlee and 55 are a very short distance from his home at the time (ludlow falls). His main interest was strangulation. He was caught after he thought he had strangled a woman to death but she managed to survive and attain help. He later confessed and produced the body of another woman which he also strangled. To date he's confessed to attacking up to 6 women but maintains that he only killed one. My understanding was that he was hiring prostitutes under the guise of sex but then attacking them as strangulation was his main objective (sexually gratifying for him). I don't recall any information that he ever sexually assaulted the women.

There isn't much information about his crimes online, I just wonder if LE even considered him since he was caught so many years later.

Also, I live very close to her recovery site and always have. IMO while not unheard of, 55 does not get much Semi traffic. It would be very unusual for a semi to just be stopped on 55, and no reason at all for one to be on Greenlee. In order to turn around the truck would have to go all the way down 55 to 48 and then cut back on 571 through West Milton, there is otherwise no real opportunity to get back to the highway (in a semi).

Just some thoughts I had. I could be way off base.
 
Hi ya Raindancemaggie, like you I've lived in this area all my life too Piqua then Troy now in a rural area between the two. I'm glad you posted about this guy because I have never heard of him. Maybe because I was to young to pay attention. I'm trying to dig him up though. When I posted that map I was wondering and you can probably answer.. Would a trucker jump off 75 to 55 to take 571 on to Indiana? Keep in mind this is all farming communities out here. Each field has has a place for tractors to get in and out of so getting in and and turning around for an experienced driver is not going to be a problem. If there is no trailer involved better still. But I am wondering about using that route to Indiana.
 
Hi ya Raindancemaggie, like you I've lived in this area all my life too Piqua then Troy now in a rural area between the two. I'm glad you posted about this guy because I have never heard of him. Maybe because I was to young to pay attention. I'm trying to dig him up though. When I posted that map I was wondering and you can probably answer.. Would a trucker jump off 75 to 55 to take 571 on to Indiana? Keep in mind this is all farming communities out here. Each field has has a place for tractors to get in and out of so getting in and and turning around for an experienced driver is not going to be a problem. If there is no trailer involved better still. But I am wondering about using that route to Indiana.

My hub drives a car carrier, he would rather not drive the wrong way to have to get turned around
 
Hi all,

This is my first time posting on this forum (only 2nd post ever!) so I apologize if this has previously been adressed, with 135 pages Im still catching up.

While I have no ideas to contribute to her identity I am curious if convicted murderer Joseph Benasutti was ever considered as a suspect in her death. While JB was not caught until 1995, he was in the area in 81. Greenlee and 55 are a very short distance from his home at the time (ludlow falls). His main interest was strangulation. He was caught after he thought he had strangled a woman to death but she managed to survive and attain help. He later confessed and produced the body of another woman which he also strangled. To date he's confessed to attacking up to 6 women but maintains that he only killed one. My understanding was that he was hiring prostitutes under the guise of sex but then attacking them as strangulation was his main objective (sexually gratifying for him). I don't recall any information that he ever sexually assaulted the women.

There isn't much information about his crimes online, I just wonder if LE even considered him since he was caught so many years later.

Also, I live very close to her recovery site and always have. IMO while not unheard of, 55 does not get much Semi traffic. It would be very unusual for a semi to just be stopped on 55, and no reason at all for one to be on Greenlee. In order to turn around the truck would have to go all the way down 55 to 48 and then cut back on 571 through West Milton, there is otherwise no real opportunity to get back to the highway (in a semi).

Just some thoughts I had. I could be way off base.

Welcome, and thanks for sharing your excellent insights.

Somewhere in an article I read in this thread, it was stated that very early on one or two people thought she might have been a girl they saw in a bar shortly before she was found. I do not think BG was a prostitute (though I could easily be wrong.) However, if she was the woman from the bar it could be that she was just a crime of opportunity for him.
 
Welcome, and thanks for sharing your excellent insights.

Somewhere in an article I read in this thread, it was stated that very early on one or two people thought she might have been a girl they saw in a bar shortly before she was found. I do not think BG was a prostitute (though I could easily be wrong.) However, if she was the woman from the bar it could be that she was just a crime of opportunity for him.
I wonder if someone still has the link for that article floating around. I did do a quick internet search for it. I can't remember how it was worded, but it seemed like those sightings in the bar either led to nothing or weren't able to be substantiated, I can't remember. I would like them to go back an re-interview the bar patrons they talked to, if they're still around. I'd also like to know where the bar was located.
 
It does not appear as though Buckskin Girl came from poverty - she appeared to be very well cared for; excellent teeth, good hygiene, etc.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I think she might have been a stepkid or possibly exposed to sexual abuse in her home.
 
I wonder if someone still has the link for that article floating around. I did do a quick internet search for it. I can't remember how it was worded, but it seemed like those sightings in the bar either led to nothing or weren't able to be substantiated, I can't remember. I would like them to go back an re-interview the bar patrons they talked to, if they're still around. I'd also like to know where the bar was located.

Maybe this link?rbbm.
http://triblive.com/news/projects/ourstories/10570633-74/doe-jane-hickey
She had been strangled. The coroner also found blunt force trauma to her forehead and a lacerated liver, possibly the result of a blow. Authorities estimated her age at 18 to 24, though Miami County Sheriff's Detective Steve Hickey thinks she looks closer to 15.
“Something like that, it's hard not to make it personal,” Hickey said. “You see her (autopsy) photos and just wonder who she is. It makes you realize, you're here for a reason: to solve this.”

Hickey took over the case three years ago, the third detective to adopt Jane Doe.
The only evidence was her body and her clothes. No ID, no hometown, no known family or friends.
There were plenty of tips in 1981, said Hickey, who hadn't been born yet, but “none panned out.”

“Some locals said they saw her at a bar, but those leads didn't go anywhere.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
385
Guests online
394
Total visitors
779

Forum statistics

Threads
609,097
Messages
18,249,391
Members
234,535
Latest member
trinizuelana
Back
Top