GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #7

[Reannan]

I also don't think the topix poster had any inside information. There is a Southern gothic novel called "One Foot In Eden" written by Ron Rash where a man is murdered, and the perp wraps the body in barbwire and then gets a rope tied around the body and thrown up into the tree. He has an old plough horse that he then attaches the other end of the rope to, and walks the horse so that the body is hoisted up into the tree. After the body is secured, he shoots the horse underneath the tree, so that anyone seeing buzzards would think it was because of the dead horse. The topix poster could have read this same book..... or just thought WAY outside the box like MH and the author of the book.

 

[TrialAddict]

There are 3 pictures and video (right side of page)of the actual tree here

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/lo...n-knox-county-missing-found-tree.html?sid=102

click on the slideshow and there are 7 pic's of the tree too

 

[gxm]

I understand what you are saying but you know what. In the Zahra Baker case for example when LE was at the house searching the backyard. I mentioned in one of my post that they should look in a hollow tree. I said that because I was thinking how could someone hide something close by besides burring it. Well that is what I came up with. I'm not a killer, nor am I even in the same state. Maybe this person who posted about that was just thinking like I had done in the ZB case.

I don't find it so odd.

I meant no offense. It's not hiding the bodies in a hollow tree that I find twisted. It's the pulley system and looking for a tree ahead of time and then devising this elaborate plan to carry out his violent acts. I apologize to any sleuthers who may have taken offense at my comments. But when I first read Catfish Billy's comment it blew my mind especially the "if he were smart he would have…" I now suspect it was someone close to MH. But I felt like screaming at the monitor not smart that's mean crazy psychopath!

 

[belimom]

Most likely for evidence at the trial.

I was thinking out of respect... so it doesn't become a "haunted site" or draw curious folks out to gawk at it.

 

[darlin gal]

pictures of the tree and the clearing
ABC6 - ODNR cut down the tree today because it is considered unstable and dangerous.

 

[Tikki]

pictures of the tree and the clearing
ABC6 - ODNR cut down the tree today because it is considered unstable and dangerous.

Excellent pictures, thank you!

darlin gal...just noticed your "location" heh

 

[JoeFromLB]

Slideshow, 7 pics of the tree:

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2010/11/19/slideshow_tree.html

The page stopped loading after the first pic. The site could be too busy at the moment.

 

[Cher352]

This is what I know about trees: when there is a crook or saddle at the top of the trunk, water can collect, then leaves, then bugs, then over time, rot. It can rot all the way down through the middle of the tree because the nutrients come up from the roots through the bark of the tree to reach the top of the tree and ultimately the leaves. An inside rotten core won't kill a tree but it will make it weaker over time. Now if you took something as teensy as a car key and made a circle all the way around the tree - then the tree would die. Also, different species of trees all have different lifespans. does anyone know what kind of a tree that was??? Maybe we can figure out how tall it was and how old it was.

just me being me......


ETA - my point being it could very well be a naturally hollowed out tree - but who would climb up that high to make that discovery???

From the video I watched with the reporter you could pretty much tell the top part of the tree was at least hollow just from standing on the ground. Then the hollow knot hole in the piece of the trunk that LE cut out you could tell the bottom was also hollow.

I agree that a hollow tree can still live, we have a lot of oaks that way here. Most of time though you don't realize they are hollow until they fall down.

As to the type of tree maybe someone familiar with trees in that area could watch that video and tell the type of tree from the fallen leaves at the base of it.

 

[nao]

Heres how i think he did it.

Put all bodies on tarp, slide them to tree (check post 388-12:12) for tarp info.

Put rope around body, huck rope over tree, pully body up while he's standing on the ground acting as counterweight. Tie rope off, climb tree , drop body in hollow, repeat.

Loggers have shoes with spikes, safety harnesses and such. He could tie off another rope so getting up an down could be quicker.

The weather is cool, odour would come high in the air, by spring and warmer weather the bodies would be mummified.

He is familiar and comfortable with trees, so it a logical choice of disposal for him.
I have a couple of logger friends, they say it would be quick easy and not alot of energy.
I'ts their work, its amazing to watch them scoot up those trees, or take down a danger tree. They do have a close relationship with their trees, they need to know the weaknesses and strengths. Trees are also called "widow makers"

Some big cats keep their kills in trees. Most hollow tree's are lightning strikes but it takes awhile for the interior to disintregrate, you can't always see the lightning strike from the outside. JMO MOO

 

[Mish]

I read the topic posts from this guy also. I won't quote what he said, but this is basically it. The poster said that if the perp was smart he would have climbed to the top of a tree and hollowed out the top. Then to use a pulley system to hoist the bodies up and drop them into the tree so nobody would find them. That is possibly the most demented thing I have ever heard. Who sits around and thinks of something like this. :crazy:

BBM -and responding to the question:

With all due respect (to ALL of us)...WE do, here on WS; we sleuth and brainstorm ideas because we CARE and desire closure and justice in all the cases we are involved in throughout this site.

Everyone's objective was to find these three precious people, one way or another...with MH's "personality traits" revealed, it would make sense to try and think of what HE would do since nature/woods/leaves were so much a part of his M.O. Perhaps that was all this poster was trying to do?

I still think it would wise for LE to locate that poster "just in case", but I also think we need to consider the idea that this poster was trying to think outside the box, much the same way that we do, here at WS. JMO..

 

[darlin gal]

Excellent pictures, thank you!

darlin gal...just noticed your "location" heh

I am forever a tinkerbell living with my peter pan in our treehouse.

 

[Cher352]

Slideshow, 7 pics of the tree:

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2010/11/19/slideshow_tree.html

The page stopped loading after the first pic. The site could be too busy at the moment.

I could see all the pics. In those the tree looks much taller that it did in the video where the 10News reporter is standing in front of it.

One pic shows the tree cut down, did LE do that?

 

[carbuff]

Those kinds of old tree are often hollow in the middle -- the only living part is right under the bark, so it doesn't matter whether the old wood in the center rots out.

I noticed this in the article: "Detectives believe that Hoffman, an experienced tree trimmer, used harnesses to haul the bodies up to a hole at the top of the tree and dropped them down to the base, Ramos reported."

 

[darlin gal]

BBM -and responding to the question:

With all due respect (to ALL of us)...WE do, here on WS; we sleuth and brainstorm ideas because we CARE and desire closure and justice in all the cases we are involved in throughout this site.

Everyone's objective was to find these three precious people, one way or another...with MH's "personality traits" revealed, it would make sense to try and think of what HE would do since nature/woods/leaves were so much a part of his M.O. Perhaps that was all this poster was trying to do?

I still think it would wise for LE to locate that poster "just in case", but I also think we need to consider the idea that this poster was trying to think outside the box, much the same way that we do, here at WS. JMO..

I totally agree. I honestly believe this poster was just thinking outside the box.


Both myself and another poster here at WS said that he had equipment and loved trees that perhaps searchers should be looking UP instead of on the ground.

We were not that far off.

 

[Cazzie]

I've already expressed my condolences for Tina, Kody, Stephanie and Tanner.

RIP beautiful, wise tree.

 

[Cher352]

Those kinds of old tree are often hollow in the middle -- the only living part is right under the bark, so it doesn't matter whether the old wood in the center rots out.

I noticed this in the article: "Detectives believe that Hoffman, an experienced tree trimmer, used harnesses to haul the bodies up to a hole at the top of the tree and dropped them down to the base, Ramos reported."

When having trees cut down on our property we have watched them using the harnesses to get the chainsaws up in the tree to them so I imagine anyone familar with tree trimmers would have thought of him using those to get the bags with the bodies up there.

 

[zoomom]

When having trees cut down on our property we have watched them using the harnesses to get the chainsaws up in the tree to them so I imagine anyone familar with tree trimmers would have thought of him using those to get the bags with the bodies up there.

I'll bet my bottom dollar they took the tree into evidence and will be able to tell what happened by every little nick and scratch. Even if he did anything premeditated to make sure the interior was hollowed out "more".

 

[gxm]

BBM -and responding to the question:

With all due respect (to ALL of us)...WE do, here on WS; we sleuth and brainstorm ideas because we CARE and desire closure and justice in all the cases we are involved in throughout this site.

Everyone's objective was to find these three precious people, one way or another...with MH's "personality traits" revealed, it would make sense to try and think of what HE would do since nature/woods/leaves were so much a part of his M.O. Perhaps that was all this poster was trying to do?

I still think it would wise for LE to locate that poster "just in case", but I also think we need to consider the idea that this poster was trying to think outside the box, much the same way that we do, here at WS. JMO..

With all due respect, no one is saying that trying to figure out where a victim's body might be found is "sick." It's the actual thinking of the plan and then carrying it out that is sick. And because MH, apparently, used a pulley system, IMO I would not be surprised if the comments on other websites came from someone with inside knowledge. It's just a little to coincidental on the details and sends my hinky meter off.

Also, the "if Hoffman were smart" seems a little too scripted by Hoffman himself. Hoffman was not so smart that he didn't get caught and caught soon enough that Sarah was found alive. At least that's one thing to be thankful for. Unlike Catfish Billy, most people wouldn't describe devising ways to dispose of murder victims as "smart." Most sleuthers can agree that they are trying to get inside a sick, not a "smart," mind. Honestly, if kidnapping Sarah was MH's central ambition, killing three innocent people was about as far from "smart" as he could get.

ETA: And the dog. He killed the dog too. It makes me wonder if kidnapping Sarah was secondary, or even spur of the moment. With the planning involved it seems MH spent most of his time planning on what to do with his victims' remains.

I mean no offense to anyone. Everything is just my opinion. I understand that we may disagree but it is not in any way my intention to offend you or anyone else. And I apologize if I have done that.

 

[Tikki]

I'll bet my bottom dollar they took the tree into evidence and will be able to tell what happened by every little nick and scratch. Even if he did anything premeditated to make sure the interior was hollowed out "more".

I hope this isn't morbid, but I do wonder what and how much evidence they have in this? And how long before we will know what it is? Years?

 

[passionflower]

MH had to have planned this and knew about this particular tree and used it as
a hiding spot.
The average person walking through the woods would never see the hollowness of this tree.
No one would know it could hold 3 people and a dog............only HIM!!!
JMOO