GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #7

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I doubt the mother lied about what he said. I can almost guarantee he's a sociopath and knows how to act like a "human being" without actually being one. I really feel bad for her. From my understanding (according to people interviewed) his parents are really nice people... :-\
 
Not necessarily. I'm wondering if they're keeping some charges hush-hush until the trial. To protect the girl, I'd think. But *shrug* I don't know... I'm not familiar with the legal aspects when it comes to crimes of this nature.

Respectfully, it doesn't work like that. The trial can only take place after all evidence is in, reviewed by both the defense and the prosecution, presented to a judge, and a plea entered. They can't proceed with a trial and then place charges. I'm not an expert either, but I can make an educated guess that there are only two explanations for MH not being charged with sexual assault or rape:

(1) It didn't happen (and I'm crossing my fingers for this), or

(2) They don't yet have enough evidence to charge him for it.

In the second case, there are more possibilities (and I'm sorry for being graphic).

  • SM's rape kit came back negative, so no rape charge.
  • SM's rape kit came back positive, but they're waiting for a DNA match.
  • SM was sexually assaulted (not raped), but is not yet ready to talk about it with LE.
There may be more that I can't think of right now, but obviously further charges are forthcoming and one like this may be one of them. I fervently hope that it's unwarranted.

JMO
 
Firstly,

God bless those poor souls and their families. May Sarah, her family, and Stephanie's poor children and family find some peace in this tragedy. I am crying... this is just pure evil.


I was at work today. I read several reports online, but cannot post at work. Some things stood out for me. the reports I read online said the following (not quoting). 1. Sarah last saw all persons involved at her house on Wed. 2. The three were killed IN the Herrmann house. 3. LE believes Hoffman acted alone. 4. Hoffman was an accomplished outdoorsman- said he camped and hiked in that area and others frequently, before he moved into the house his parents bought. 5. The bodies were placed in a hollowed out tree- however, the report I read, which I believe was quoting LE, made note of the fact that Hoffman worked as a tree trimmer, AND HAD ACCESS TO TREE CLIMBING EQUIPMENT. I take this to mean that in his prior outdoor hikes/excursions, he came upon a tree that looked to be struck by lightening, and perhaps climbed it. LE had to saw the tree to "respectfully" remove the victims. That tells me it was not a hollowed out tree that was accessible from the ground. I think he dropped them in. He worked out and was very fit, the victims were small. Another poster here mentioned that SS worked at his gym as part of a cleaning crew. She could have been the connection- who knows.

I just find it so hard to swallow, that with such horrible diseases such as cancer that take people's lives, that humanity has to deal with other HUMANS that would DO something like this. I know some people are not pro DP, but in cases like this, or those sickos who raped and tortured that 4mo old infant in New Mexico- Well, you need to treat them like a rabid dog, or a dog who has attacked. We euthanize animals so they cannot hurt again. I think the same principle should be put into play for certain humans. JMO.
 
The fact that he was nearby when LE found Tina's truck seems major to me. They had to run his plates and DL right then and find out he's a felon. They had nothing to get him on, but I'm betting red flags were everywhere right then.
They found a Walmart receipt. There had to be fingerprints and DNA in that house, too.

I think so too grayjay. Then there is the problem of welfare checks. Somehow we have got to "untie" the hands of law when it is regarding the welfare of a person(s), even if they are over 18, if they have given their friends/co-workers a key to their house and/or a legitimate agreement to call on them when they don't respond to repeated messages (yes, a warrant), to get in and allow a physical check of the residence, perhaps that would cut down on the number of days that families have to wait to find their loved ones, and LE is allowed to act, on disappearances that lead to missing people, and perhaps murder.

I am not advocating people giving up their rights to privacy, we all need that - I am suggesting that if people do want someone else to come over and check on them the people calling a red flag should be given more importance, at least if time is a factor, and the actions (or inaction) of the persons missing is far out of character.

Just thinking out loud...
 
examiner.com shouldn't be considered a reliable source -- this site takes reporting from other places and "interprets" it -- often wrong. they're often not written or run by journalists, but regular people.

I'm confused, I just read in the article (link below) that Sarah is now in the custody of her father and her "biological mother"?????
I thought Tina Herrmann was her biological mother?
Has anyone else read this anywhere??

http://www.examiner.com/us-headline...-bodies-found-tree-press-conference:waitasec:
 
Shouldn't this still be in the missing/located folder? They were missing 8 days. Not sure why we are now in crimes section.
 
It's taken me a long time to get caught up from being gone today. This was not at all the outcome I was praying for, but I'm thankful at least that they were all found. What an incredible tragedy and what a bizarre crime! It seems that there are a lot of unusual aspects to this crime. One the one hand, MH seems to have planned a lot out (picking out a hollow tree in a remote forest and figuring out how to get the bodies there, etc.), on the other hand, he seems to have left some bizarrely obvious clues (the receipt, watching the abandoned truck, even keeping Sarah in his own basement). If he really wanted to escape detection, it seems like he could have headed for the woods.

He certainly sounds like a sociopath, but it doesn't stop people from wanting to figure it out anyway.

These poor families and poor Sarah. How I hope the community rallies around them in an amazing and long-term way. The wounds will be there for many years to come, but there is also great hope for healing. It is obvious from what the sheriff and others have said that Sarah is a strong little girl. I pray she'll be able to use that strength in the years ahead.

Thank you very much to those of you from the local community who have joined and posted. It is always so helpful to get a local perspective and it really helps bring a much more human aspect to a horribly inhumane situation.
 
I am not convinced 100% that Sarah was sexually abused my MH. It did seem to make the most sense at first (that Sarah was the target), with what little we know. But now I am not sure. Especially with the gym connection to SS, the beer cans (maybe partying). My reasoning is that he raged on the family, perhaps one of the women insulted him (intentionally or unintentionally) and he raged. Perhaps the boy acted in a way that he felt was "weak". But maybe Sarah just became submissive in his presence. This may have prevented her death. That is my guess.

BTW- based on reading in btwn the lines, I am guessing that the walmart receipt for tarps, garbage bags, etc. is a part of what led them to MH. I think they found it at th's house or in TH's truck.

What I don't know is how they knew he had Sarah in his house for sure. The only way I could see that going down is either a neighbor who saw a girl fitting her description being brought there (and LE is protecting the witness) or a cell phone call or text.
 
The nasty trolls have come out tonight at the FB.

Unbelievable.......
 
The fact that he was nearby when LE found Tina's truck seems major to me. They had to run his plates and DL right then and find out he's a felon. They had nothing to get him on, but I'm betting red flags were everywhere right then.
They found a Walmart receipt. There had to be fingerprints and DNA in that house, too.

The local Knox Co. Sheriff had a lot of LE agencies involved and giving this case priority. I'm sure they rushed through any fingerprints and DNA, and likely consulted with the DA in Colorado that prosecuted MH there.

I think it's amazing how quickly they acted! When you consider that this tragic case began unfolding on Thursday morning, and by Sunday morning LE sent a SWAT team into MH's house to rescue Sarah and arrest MH, I'd say there had to be a lot of coordination and team effort to make it all come together so quickly.

I think Sheriff Barber should be commended for his role in this. He knew he didn't have the resources there in Knox County to handle a case of this magnitude. He wasn't reluctant to accept any and all help from outside agencies. It was a coordinated effort to resolve this case as quickly as possible, and in doing so they saved one of the missing four people. Who knows what would have happened to Sarah if there had been any delay in her rescue.
 
Maybe something did happen to Sarah but they aren't charging him with it because they have him on more serious crimes such as the Murders. They don't want to harm her just to add more charges when they already know he's looking at DP or LWOP!
 
There may be more that I can't think of right now, but obviously further charges are forthcoming.

We know that he has already been charged with kidnapping.

I can tell you that he will be charged with three counts of aggravated murder.

If the bodies were dismembered, he can be charged with three counts of gross abuse of a corspe.

If he drove Tina's or Stephanie's vehicle, he can be charged with auto theft or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.

One thing that we don't know is how did he get into their house. He could be charged with breaking and entering, or maybe home invasion.

And if he is convicted of kidnapping, he will be forced to register as a sexual offender in Ohio even if he didn't commit a sexual crime against the minor victim.

So yes, he will be facing a slew of felony charges.
 
I don't think they would hold back on any other charges when they found Sarah and arrested him. If there was sexual assault/battery - I am sure we would have seen those charges along with the kidnapping. It would bolster the case and would have an effect on the amount of bond the judge set. They would know if he assaulted her sexually (rape) by interviewing her and from test results and examination at the hospital.

All IMO..........
 
if Sarah was raped (and i hope she wasn't) i would think Sarah would need for him to be charged with that. it puts closure on that and if they didn't it could make Sarah feel like what she went thru didn't matter.
 
Shouldn't this still be in the missing/located folder? They were missing 8 days. Not sure why we are now in crimes section.

Maybe it's because of the discovery today? It took me awhile to find a thread with active posting as well (had to catch up on several threads and heard about the tragic outcome, stunned really). I'm still confused as to when exactly LE found the bodies, although after reading all of the great posts that filled in the details that regular media didn't conglomerate, or completely missed in fact-checking, it seems to me Knox County was processing information as quickly as they found it, and mh decided to talk at some point between last night and this morning, giving LE a spot on where to find Tina, Kody and Stephanie.
 
LE found the bodies at 2:30 PM EST (roughly).
 
all the moving around... this case needs to be somewhere people can find it! sorry but I am a seasoned ws vet and I almost couldn't find it!

I created a folder in my bookmarks and put a link to the thread in that folder. Whenever there's a new thread, I bookmark it and save it to that folder, putting it on top. All the links to the threads, first through this one are in order with the first on the bottom and most recent on top.
 
I don't think they would hold back on any other charges when they found Sarah and arrested him. If there was sexual assault/battery - I am sure we would have seen those charges along with the kidnapping. It would bolster the case and would have an effect on the amount of bond the judge set. They would know if he assaulted her sexually (rape) by interviewing her and from test results and examination at the hospital.

All IMO..........

I wonder if the most serious charges (basically all charges), outside of kidnapping in this case, are being held for the Grand Jury. Kidnapping was enough for a 1 million dollar bond, no bonding out for mh with 10% or any %, that bond was so high mh is not going anywhere, for a long time, other than a jail cell while he awaits trial. Sarah is a preteen, no need for her to go through any more legal maneuvers than she has to; would imagine LE and DA is using all tools at their disposal to prosecute the case against mh fairly, and with all his civil rights, including due process, intact.

Requirements for a fair conviction and really, stiff, sentence...jmo
 
My stomach is churning and I'm trembling. I now understand why those comments get taken down. The words are just too jarring to be spoken. An unspeakable crime. I don't need to know the particulars about his relationship with a minor, either. It's dreadful that she has to go back to school, and some crass and ignorant person might repeat something like that. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. It's all unspeakable for the victims and so unnecessary to getting justice.

I hope that before Sarah returns to school, the principal and teachers will talk with the students and impress upon them that Sarah has been through a terrible ordeal and they're not to press her for information about what happened, and to treat her well. They can express their condolences and hopefully return to some sort of normalcy for her sake.
 
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