GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[Filly]

Do we have any close up pix of MH eyes to study what kind he has?
All I saw in the videos was very cold blank eyes, now I would lik to see the whites.......

Here ya go, Passionflower. Alot of times it's in mugshots where people are looking up and it just appears they have the three whites. However, with MH I saw this picture and thought "Yup, rager". They look upside down to me. Again, it's not any real proof, but there's alot of information out on it.

My friend who did the Psychology clinical she swore by it. Then again she had dated someone with upside down, three whites and he's locked up criminally insane.


http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2010/11/14/matthew-hoffman-cp-9753897.jpg

 

[Filly]

Someone mentioned earlier about the topix thread with the CB replies. Not sure if they found what they were looking for, but I think it was in this thread.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/mount-vernon-oh/T9S80OKSVLB9U6QO5

That's it, but apparently they removed CB's posts.

That's some scarry stuff. Makes you wonder how many people have done that with bodies. They say it happens in the Pine Barrens. Hey, hunters stand up in those Baker Tree stands for hours. Imagine all the things you notice standing in a tree for five hours.

Someone on that Topix mentions he reminds them of Jeffrey Dahmer. He too had the three whites. O.K. I'll lay off the eye stuff now.

 

[Reannan]

looking into the sanpuka eyes........John Wayne Gacy !!!

Joseph Duncan and John Couey too.... yikes!

 

[zoomom]

Respectfully, I disagree. If someone complained that TH didn't show up for work, there was a vehicle in the driveway, the lights were on, and yet no one answered the door, wouldn't that indicate that something was wrong? What was the point of the check otherwise? Now, if someone had answered the door and said everything is fine, I'd understand. But this was the second time he checked and still no one came to the door. There must have been something that could have been done legally to make sure everything was okay.

And yes, I sympathize with how the deputy must be feeling knowing what he does now. Maybe this tragedy will accomplish a change in procedure, but as it stands, it doesn't make sense to me.

JMO

FWIW - my hubby is a Code Enforcement Officer and works closely with the PD, alot of it regarding vacant homes. I KNOW this home wasn't vacant but I do know the PD & Code Enforcement are both strictly held to rights of The Fourth Amendment (Illegal search & seizure). IF curtains or blinds were drawn, there is nothing the police can do without probable cause. They can't "climb over fences" or try opening windows or screens just to look in back windows, etc. If they happen to be extra tall and can look over a fence in order to see something then that's ok. An example would be if they could look in a window and could see a further reflection of the room because of a bathroom mirror. that is perfectly legit.

I really think if they could have seen into any windows - they would have been able to make a phone call or two and get further permission to further investigate - blood on floors or walls, signs of a struggle, anything (coupled with the boss's phone call) would have gotten them in asap. JMO.

 

[CKay]

FWIW - my hubby is a Code Enforcement Officer and works closely with the PD, alot of it regarding vacant homes. I KNOW this home wasn't vacant but I do know the PD & Code Enforcement are both strictly held to rights of The Fourth Amendment (Illegal search & seizure). IF curtains or blinds were drawn, there is nothing the police can do without probable cause. They can't "climb over fences" or try opening windows or screens just to look in back windows, etc. If they happen to be extra tall and can look over a fence in order to see something then that's ok. An example would be if they could look in a window and could see a further reflection of the room because of a bathroom mirror. that is perfectly legit.

I really think if they could have seen into any windows - they would have been able to make a phone call or two and get further permission to further investigate - blood on floors or walls, signs of a struggle, anything (coupled with the boss's phone call) would have gotten them in asap. JMO.

I absolutely agree and very well said. There are 1000s of reason for someone not to show up for work on time, and being a victim of a crime is only one.

If TH was supposed to show up at 4 p.m., and the first wellness check was at around 7:30, I think expecting him to panic and go to extraordinary measures at that point is expecting too much.

How many of us have not been late to work? What if our boss called 911? Here we are, fast asleep, not hearing our alarm. Then *bam* "POLICE POLICE .. IS ANYONE HERE?"

I'm sure that deputy has regrets, but what else was he supposed to do?

 

[antiquegirl]

FWIW - my hubby is a Code Enforcement Officer and works closely with the PD, alot of it regarding vacant homes. I KNOW this home wasn't vacant but I do know the PD & Code Enforcement are both strictly held to rights of The Fourth Amendment (Illegal search & seizure). IF curtains or blinds were drawn, there is nothing the police can do without probable cause. They can't "climb over fences" or try opening windows or screens just to look in back windows, etc. If they happen to be extra tall and can look over a fence in order to see something then that's ok. An example would be if they could look in a window and could see a further reflection of the room because of a bathroom mirror. that is perfectly legit.

I really think if they could have seen into any windows - they would have been able to make a phone call or two and get further permission to further investigate - blood on floors or walls, signs of a struggle, anything (coupled with the boss's phone call) would have gotten them in asap. JMO.

I understand. I really do. I'd be the last one to recommend trampling on individual rights or freedoms and realize that hindsight is 20/20. Just can't help thinking that if someone would have gotten GB's permission to enter the home 24 hours sooner, maybe some of this tragedy could have been prevented. I'm not blaming any specific person, but there should be some kind of Plan B for situations such as this. (I have a spare house key left with one of my neighbours, just in case.)

Aside: A few weeks ago, a guy delivering junk mail approached me as I got home. He told me that he was delivering his fliers to the house across the street and heard the smoke alarm going off. He said he also smelled smoke. So, I went over there with him and confirmed both. I immediately called 911, knocked on the door and there was no answer. Went to the side door, tried it and it was open. I was too scared to go in, but I stuck my head in and yelled out to see if anyone was home. No answer. A few minutes later, the fire trucks arrived, got into the house and found a pot left on a burning stove element. It all turned out okay, and I realize that the situation is different, but it's ironic that emergency personnel can enter a home over a smoldering pot, but can't when three people are being murdered.

JMO

 

[VicVixvi]

That's it, but apparently they removed CB's posts.

That's some scarry stuff. Makes you wonder how many people have done that with bodies. They say it happens in the Pine Barrens. Hey, hunters stand up in those Baker Tree stands for hours. Imagine all the things you notice standing in a tree for five hours.

Someone on that Topix mentions he reminds them of Jeffrey Dahmer. He too had the three whites. O.K. I'll lay off the eye stuff now.

The original CB quotes about the hollow tree are quoted early in the thread. CB asks if another poster had actually mentioned him to Nancy Grace in post #80. In post #100 CB posts a picture of himself.

 

[peeples]

I understand. I really do. I'd be the last one to recommend trampling on individual rights or freedoms and realize that hindsight is 20/20. Just can't help thinking that if someone would have gotten GB's permission to enter the home 24 hours sooner, maybe some of this tragedy could have been prevented. I'm not blaming any specific person, but there should be some kind of Plan B for situations such as this. (I have a spare house key left with one of my neighbours, just in case.)

Aside: A few weeks ago, a guy delivering junk mail approached me as I got home. He told me that he was delivering his fliers to the house across the street and heard the smoke alarm going off. He said he also smelled smoke. So, I went over there with him and confirmed both. I immediately called 911, knocked on the door and there was no answer. Went to the side door, tried it and it was open. I was too scared to go in, but I stuck my head in and yelled out to see if anyone was home. No answer. A few minutes later, the fire trucks arrived, got into the house and found a pot left on a burning stove element. It all turned out okay, and I realize that the situation is different, but it's ironic that emergency personnel can enter a home over a smoldering pot, but can't when three people are being murdered.

JMO

But no one knew they were being murdered, there was signs of a fire, alarm and smoke.

I'm sure this poor deputy feel so bad that it wouldn't surprise me to see him take his own life at some point or leave his job or something

 

[zoomom]

This crime is probably the worst one I have learned about in a long, long time. I can't bear the thought of the victims being stabbed...somehow that seems the very worst way to die. And the thought of this grown adult stabbing a little boy and two women is just chilling. The whole thing makes me very scared too, in a selfish kind of way, as I am alone overnight as my husband works graveyard. It is terrifying to think there are people like this everywhere and anywhere.

But mostly I am just so sad for these victims, that their lives are gone, just like that, to satisfy some unknowable urge in this guy. I am not very religious these days, and people like this don't help. I find it hard to look for any kind of reason why these innocent people should have had to be stabbed to death and cut into pieces...to teach us, what exactly? I just don't get it...I'm not vindictive either, but there is nothing too harsh for this guy.

Dear C. - i hear you and agree with you 100%. what can we do? (I'm serious). As in - really, - what can we do?????

 

[SmoothOperator]

HEY WHERE WAS THAT LOG THAT TOLD WHAT mh WAS DOING EVERY HOUR WHILE INCARCERATED? DISPATCH OR SOMETHING? TIA

 

[CKay]

But no one knew they were being murdered, there was signs of a fire, alarm and smoke.

I'm sure this poor deputy feel so bad that it wouldn't surprise me to see him take his own life at some point or leave his job or something

Gosh, I sure hope not!!!

 

[peeples]

Gosh, I sure hope not!!!

\
It's speculation on my part.. but I know 2 civilian LE officers who have does this over guilt and many more military servicemen/women who also have taken their own lives over a perceived "failure".

 

[Mia]

I was just reading the Pray for Maynard Kids FB - and they're all talking about a fake FB page for SM that punk trolls made w/ *advertiser censored* & SM's pics.

I wish there were laws against this carp....I do not believe our founding fathers' idea of free speech included this kind of garbage. :censored:

Just...Wow. There are no words, almost. How much coldness and evil and anger do you have to have in your heart to do something like that and write those kinds of things? How much exactly does one have to hate him/herself to find gratification in writing these things? I almost feel sorry for those who created the fake FB site and posting horrible, offensive things, as they must, they just have to be, completely empty or terrifically sad and hopeless individuals. More than just common losers - they are gathering the hate they feel for themselves and their lives/situations and spewing it out through their typewriter to show the world, I assume, how empty they are

Beautiful, brave Sarah. She is currently my hero right now too.

 

[tfrohning]

\
It's speculation on my part.. but I know 2 civilian LE officers who have does this over guilt and many more military servicemen/women who also have taken their own lives over a perceived "failure".

Where that come from? It sad to even to think something like that.

IS there a link were the officer feels like he fail? Otherwise I confused of why we need to speculation about him taken his life. There is enough sadness in this case that we don't need to speculation something like this... is just wrong. IMO

 

[peeples]

Peeples: I'm sure this poor deputy feel so bad that it wouldn't surprise me to see him take his own life at some point or leave his job or something

Wow, let's not wish bad upon this man. He did his job I feel. Just a bad situation. I think anyone going to a house on a house check is pretty brave. Never know. Laws make it more difficult to pursue.

I"M NOT wishing bad on him at all wher eon earth did you get that from?? I sympathize with him and am having a hard time reading the posts from the people who are saying why didn't he go in etc...
I'm drawing upon my own personal experiences with suicide and they spend their lives asking themselves why.. and sometimes they cannot take it anymore. I was trying to give some other posters some reality about what he's probably going thorugh right now. The men and 1 woman in my life who have committed suicide over such things were both civilian LE and enlisted. They all did something that directly or indirectly led to the death of a person or child. All were cleared of any wrong doing and all were truly accidents, or innocent mistakes, but that didn't resolve them of their own guilt.

 

[tfrohning]

I know that Barber said that all LE and anyone involve in this case will get help to help them work through the case.

 

[zoomom]

I absolutely agree and very well said. There are 1000s of reason for someone not to show up for work on time, and being a victim of a crime is only one.

If TH was supposed to show up at 4 p.m., and the first wellness check was at around 7:30, I think expecting him to panic and go to extraordinary measures at that point is expecting too much.

How many of us have not been late to work? What if our boss called 911? Here we are, fast asleep, not hearing our alarm. Then *bam* "POLICE POLICE .. IS ANYONE HERE?"

I'm sure that deputy has regrets, but what else was he supposed to do?

I totally agree with you! Those poor cops have got to be beating themselves up and WORSE. I feel terrible for the ripple effect this case has, and will have. Believe it or not, since I have been on WS and discussed these cases with DH - he has sat up and taken notice of what CAN POSSIBLY be going on behind closed doors - and now understands the importance of seriously being in the here-and-now of some "mundane, run-of-the-mill middle of the afternoon on a sunny day" situation. We have grandkids.....what if he ignored "snooping" for another couple of minutes for someone else's family members because "no one answered the door and everything seemed quiet?". It is a nightmare of ours.

 

[CKay]

My grandmother, who was 94 when she died recently, decided that I was the one she needed to worry about, after my Mom (her only child) died.

If she called and I didn't answer, she'd try my cell phone. If I didn't hear that, she'd call the home phone again. Repeat in 15 minutes ... 30 minutes. Then my brother was called and my sister in law. Could they look out and see if my car was here? She had me dead in some ditch in her mind, when in reality, I might have been outside in the yard ... or shopping and forgot my phone.

Had she called 9-1-1 and it happened that I was in the shower when a deputy knocked, and then he broke in ... omg.

And I'm sure Grandma would have made it sound like the end of the earth, trust me.

Luckily she never called. But had she, the procedure would have been the same. Knock knock, no one answers? >>> leave and take note. Unless of course there was something out of the ordinary (probable cause).

 

[zoomom]

I understand. I really do. I'd be the last one to recommend trampling on individual rights or freedoms and realize that hindsight is 20/20. Just can't help thinking that if someone would have gotten GB's permission to enter the home 24 hours sooner, maybe some of this tragedy could have been prevented. I'm not blaming any specific person, but there should be some kind of Plan B for situations such as this. (I have a spare house key left with one of my neighbours, just in case.)

Aside: A few weeks ago, a guy delivering junk mail approached me as I got home. He told me that he was delivering his fliers to the house across the street and heard the smoke alarm going off. He said he also smelled smoke. So, I went over there with him and confirmed both. I immediately called 911, knocked on the door and there was no answer. Went to the side door, tried it and it was open. I was too scared to go in, but I stuck my head in and yelled out to see if anyone was home. No answer. A few minutes later, the fire trucks arrived, got into the house and found a pot left on a burning stove element. It all turned out okay, and I realize that the situation is different, but it's ironic that emergency personnel can enter a home over a smoldering pot, but can't when three people are being murdered.

JMO

Oh antique girl - I am totally with you!!!! As a private citizen you get to do that kind of stuff! In fact you are a hero! It's just a really "<modsnip>" situation that govt/city workers (who have the most training, IMO) can't cross that line with out permission or "probable cause!!!!!" They have to have a legitimate "cause". YOU WERE IT!

 

[snapdragon]

I felt a need to post a comment to the family or friends (and community) who may be reading this thread. Some of our recent threads have been thoughtfully removed by our moderator... they tended to discuss what could have happened that night, and how it involved Sarah. Since the case, for all intents and purposes, has been solved - all parties located - I can see how conjecturing on the happenings may seem harsh or cruel. I will no longer mention Sarah in any of my posts that relates to "what could have happened". I, and others here, I'm sure, never meant any pain to anyone. We are in shock like you and your community, and are having a hard time wrapping our heads around how something like this could have ever happened.

I will say that many of the members here are people who have been affected by violent crime; either in their own lives, loved ones, or their communities. I, personally, joined WS when Sandra Cantu, an 8yr girl, was murdered by a child friend's MOTHER, and sexually violated as well. This crime shook our community, and all us mothers were just besides ourselves. I also went through this with a friend, whose daughter was violently murdered by a boy/man she had just broken up with. I have seen the evil and understand its effect. I think most here on WS have also joined and participate because they have experienced, directly or indirectly, violence in some form or another. This is a victim friendly site, and I truly hope that all in the community, family, and friends, understand that the posts made here are not to hurt, but to try to make sense of the senseless. God bless all of you and I pray daily for Sarah... I only hope she can live a somewhat happy life, and has all the help she needs/ will need. She is a true hero.

Hope this was ok to post, mods. If not, please remove.