Ohio Bill Would Make Abortion Illegal Without Paternal Consent

[OneLostGrl]

Well, I feel pregnant, does that count?

Comparing ADD/ADHD with children is much different than the abortion debate.
If a woman knows she would harm her child, she needs to get help, not murder an unborn child and cause herself more harm later.

Cal

Not to me, Cal, not to me!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Lemme add one other thing that no one seems to want to discuss with the young woman who is considering an abortion......the after effects.

I have known two women who had abortions for all the insurmountable reasons quoted above. They are a mess. They have enormous guilt. The constantly obsess about how old the child would be today. They have mucked up sex lives. They have mucked up romantic relationships.

It isn't as easy as...123, rip it out of me...and then on with life.

Yes, there are some capable of never thinking about it again. But there are Masons and Petersons too.

Cal

What a joke, Cal! Perhaps there are some that are able to realize they did the best thing they could have FOR that unborn child!

 

[CyberLaw]

I don't know about you, but when one the factors in having an abortion, is getting birth control, follow up care.

They(pro choice) usually rely on words like zygot, embryo, fetus or even lump of cells to describe what they are destroying.

Why you ask yourself: Because that is what the "baby" is, it is not a viable human being. It cannot survive outside of the womb. Therefore it is not a "baby", not born alive and cannot survive at less then at the very minimum 25 weeks gestation. If a "aborted" fetus was a human, then people who aborted the"baby" would give the "baby" a funeral.

Murder is: Killing of another human being "specifically" under conditions covered by law. Human being being the key word. If the fetus cannot survive outside of the womb, then it is dependent upon the "gestational" vessel(aka pregnant mother) for survival.

How about this: Force a man while he is dating you to get a "conditional" vasectomy. So when he is dating you, you will not get pregnant. Let him ensure no "accidents" or mistakes happen. Therefore there will be no unwanted children, no abortion and if a women does want a baby, she will choose a "suitable" father and then not force him into a conditional, temporary vasectomy.

Oh by the way, women do still die from childbirth. Have very serious complications. When men die in childbirth and suffer serious complications, then they can choose to have a baby or not.

Even if a mother is treated for a medical condition prior to pregnancy, she cannot continue to take the medication during pregnancy to treat her "current" medical pre pregnancy condition, like depression.

You have a pregnant women, who does not want to have the baby, but is forced to by her boyfriend. Low and behold she cannot take medication for a number of medical conditions. She cannot take depression medication. So here she is, forced into giving birth, off her depression medication, for 9 months, hormones going wild. Her situation becomes desperate, she does not want to be a Mom, she is now very depressed. Harms herself and "her baby". Wow, sound like an ideal situation to me.

Wow, Cal you are talking about two women. OMG, what a generalization. Why don't you talk to the all the other women who have an abortions in the US and ask them if they are the same as these two lone women.

Out of 1000 pregnant "white" women in the states in 2006, 13 of those end in abortion. Amongst black women - 49 per 1000. Hispanic women 33 out of 1000.

The reasons for having an abortion: 25.5% wanted to postpone childbearing. 21.3% cannot afford a baby. 14.1% has relationship problems or partner does not want a baby, 12.2% too young, parents or others object to having a baby, 10.8% having a baby will disrupt education or job, 7.9% do not want any more children, 3.3% risk to fetal health, 2.1% risk to maternal health, 2.1% "other".

Abortion rates have actually gone down in the USA due to better and improved birth control.

 

[GraceBlue]

That Ohio Bill stinks.

My attitude is, it is my body, my uterus, stay out of it! If you don't want to get an abortion then don't!!! Don't tell people what to do with their bodies. If someone has cancer doesnt want it removed, let it be. Yeah, its sad (who says abortions are FUN?) but it is their body after all.

What I really dont get is people are rooting for Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar for having 17 kids and when people make negative comments or bash them having 17 kids is crazy. The Duggar-supporters jump in and bash those people and tell them its her body and she can have as many kids as she wants. It is the SAME THING, only the reverse issue.

I am pro-choice all the way. I respect those of you who have different views but really, if you dont want an abortion don't have one. This is definitely an issue that both sides will never come to an agreement on.

 

[Nova]

I think this makes perfect sense. Some fathers may actually want to give these babies a loving home or see that they are adopted out.
It takes 2 to make a baby it should take 2 to decide something of this magnitude.

I think fathers should have a voice.

I agree. As soon as fathers learn to carry a fetus to term in their own bodies.

In the meantime, if a man is so concerned about what happens to his seed, he should be more careful where he plants it.

Yes, ideally, the decision to have a child or abort should be mutual. But no man and no law should be able to force any woman to carry a child in HER body to term. That is tyranny of the worst sort.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I was under the impression that those who believe abortion is a valid choice also did not believe a baby is involved.

Not all people believe that. Some women (and men involved with that woman and unborn child) make their choice based on the fact that there IS a child involved.

 

[Nova]

That Ohio Bill stinks.

My attitude is, it is my body, my uterus, stay out of it! If you don't want to get an abortion then don't!!! Don't tell people what to do with their bodies. If someone has cancer doesnt want it removed, let it be. Yeah, its sad (who says abortions are FUN?) but it is their body after all.

What I really dont get is people are rooting for Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar for having 17 kids and when people make negative comments or bash them having 17 kids is crazy. The Duggar-supporters jump in and bash those people and tell them its her body and she can have as many kids as she wants. It is the SAME THING, only the reverse issue.

I am pro-choice all the way. I respect those of you who have different views but really, if you dont want an abortion don't have one. This is definitely an issue that both sides will never come to an agreement on.

Well said. If we don't own our bodies, we have no freedom at all.

 

[MissieMt]

Well, I don't have enough information.

Do I still like her or am I tired of putting up with her crap already?

Overused fallacious argument. True medical conditions that you speak of are very rare indeed....yet quoted like 90% of women getting abortions need that to save their lives.

Cal

I was not implying that 90% of women that get abortions do it for their own medical safety. I know that is not true, and I didn't phrase it like that, it was a simple hypothetical question.

 

[MissieMt]

That Ohio Bill stinks.

My attitude is, it is my body, my uterus, stay out of it! If you don't want to get an abortion then don't!!! Don't tell people what to do with their bodies. If someone has cancer doesnt want it removed, let it be. Yeah, its sad (who says abortions are FUN?) but it is their body after all.

What I really dont get is people are rooting for Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar for having 17 kids and when people make negative comments or bash them having 17 kids is crazy. The Duggar-supporters jump in and bash those people and tell them its her body and she can have as many kids as she wants. It is the SAME THING, only the reverse issue.

I am pro-choice all the way. I respect those of you who have different views but really, if you dont want an abortion don't have one. This is definitely an issue that both sides will never come to an agreement on.

Well said, Grace Blue, well said!!!!!

 

[OneLostGrl]

You ever heard the saying "tell yourself what you have to tell yourself to get by"?

That is what this is.

If a woman ever admitted that a child was a child at conception, then they would be admitting that the abortion made them a murderer (supposing they had an abortion). Faced with the horror of such an admission, they choose to go the route that gives them the conscience out. They want to act like the abortion is nothing more than taking a pan of bread that burnt out of the oven, no different. Just dna in there with no life or soul.

Only, the problem is that no amount of feminism propaganda and chanting about baby at birth is able to quench the firey furnance of the conscience and soul. That is why so many women live a life of depression and problematic relationships....especially when they have children later in life. That's the real untold story is the guilt that they can't get away from because their soul won't let them forget about what they did.

I was talking with a lady once who admitted that she had an abortion. I wasn't judgemental or anything like that. She finally broke down right there in front of me (I hadn't said much to her because the deed was done by that point) and admitted about the guilt and suffering she was going through and it was about 15 years removed.

Cal

Of course, there are millions of women who had abortions who wish they never did! But not all woman are as you describe, Cal.. I'm certainly not. I'm also not anything near a feminist.

Just a mentally ill woman who ended up pregnant after going off the pill thinking that was what was making me so sick in my mind. Only, after that I became sicker and sicker still, even ended up commited to psychiatric hospitals, made suicide attempts and came very close to harming my child the one who was already alive.

I got help and part of that help was to end a pregancy with a child I could end up harming once living outside of my body. I'd already harmed myself and wanted nothing more than to die, why bring a child into THAT kind of life?

You can claim feminism all you want to, but you have no idea the life I have lead, what I put my family through, including my husband, the father of both children I carried (who had a say in the matter and chose what was best for our living and unborn children. and the changes I have since made in my life.

Regret, yeah, I always wanted lots of kids, but guilt, no way! I didn't choose to be mentally ill but I could choose my own behavior and bringing harm to the life of a living breathing child is one behavior I chose not to engage in!
I didn't make a habit of getting pregnant and had to fight with my doctor to get him to tie my tubes while I was still so young but I felt it important I was not in control of anymore childrens lives with my illness. I also felt it important not to hand down more mental illness to our future generations.

I did the right thing and I know that the God I love and pray to knows that!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Welp, you gave him control of it for 2 minutes (10 if you were lucky ) so that makes you uniquely qualified to participate in whatever results from that...pregnancy, std, etc.

Killing the child that you irresponsbily created is murder.

Cal

In YOUR opinion!

 

[csds703]

I agree. As soon as fathers learn to carry a fetus to term in their own bodies.

In the meantime, if a man is so concerned about what happens to his seed, he should be more careful where he plants it.

Yes, ideally, the decision to have a child or abort should be mutual. But no man and no law should be able to force any woman to carry a child in HER body to term. That is tyranny of the worst sort.

The facts are that the way this law is written, the man has final say.
There is no mutual decision, just his say so.:hand:

 

[MagicRose99]

Not to me, Cal, not to me!

Not to me either... a man, who cannot possibly know what it feels like to carry and birth a child, has no right to tell a woman she has to do it herself. That's why I keep saying that when the time comes that a man actually carries and births a child THEN he will have the right to decide whether or not an abortion is appropriate.

 

[OneLostGrl]

That is a shallow argument, no offense.

Anyone killing a child would be dealt with by the legal system.

Cal

I see nothing shallow about it... nothing!

 

[Rino]

They(pro choice) usually rely on words like zygot, embryo, fetus or even lump of cells to describe what they are destroying.

Why you ask yourself: Because that is what the "baby" is, it is not a viable human being. It cannot survive outside of the womb. Therefore it is not a "baby", not born alive and cannot survive at less then at the very minimum 25 weeks gestation. If a "aborted" fetus was a human, then people who aborted the"baby" would give the "baby" a funeral.

Murder is: Killing of another human being "specifically" under conditions covered by law.

MagicRose99 repeatedly refered to the aborted as baby and child, it appears she feels differently than you and most pro-choice. That is why I made the remark.

human being
–noun
1.any individual of the genus *advertiser censored*, esp. a member of the species *advertiser censored* sapiens.
2.a person, esp. as distinguished from other animals or as representing the human species

I'm not sure that an embryo or fetus do not fit the above definition. It will not ever grow into a flower or pony

I never wrote murder. Indeed to those who are pro-choice it is not. I did question how one can be both pro-life and pro-choice. ( outside the paramaters of mothers health and sever illness to the unborn.)

 

[MagicRose99]

MagicRose99 repeatedly refered to the aborted as baby and child, it appears she feels differently than you and most pro-choice. That is why I made the remark.

human being
–noun
1.any individual of the genus *advertiser censored*, esp. a member of the species *advertiser censored* sapiens.
2.a person, esp. as distinguished from other animals or as representing the human species

I'm not sure that an embryo or fetus do not fit the above definition. It will not ever grow into a flower or pony

I never wrote murder. Indeed to those who are pro-choice it is not. I did question how one can be both pro-life and pro-choice. ( outside the paramaters of mothers health and sever illness to the unborn.)

Because to me, that IS a baby. I personally would never consider having or have an abortion, unless the child was conceived by rape for instance. But then again, I don't sleep with a man who I'm not serious with or vice/versa.

But, I do feel that it is a woman's choice whether or not I agree with her or her decision. It's not my place to tell someone else what they should believe or feel regarding their mental or personal health.

 

[lisag]

My attitude is, it is my body, my uterus, stay out of it! If you don't want to get an abortion then don't!!! Don't tell people what to do with their bodies. If someone has cancer doesnt want it removed, let it be. Yeah, its sad (who says abortions are FUN?) but it is their body after all.

I keep looking at this thread and backing out... I dont want to get locked out for 5 days!! lol
But I cant stay away so I will throw in my 2 cents...
I am pro-LIFE.... I am fine with the fact that we should able to do what we want with our bodies, but it is not just our body that we are messing with here.. It is another life... A life that begins at conception. It should nto be up to us to decide weather or not that life gets to continue.. That "choice" should only be up to God.

And regarding the quote above, I just wanted to say that we can hardly compare a baby (a fetus, an embryo) to cancer....

 

[sherri79]

when my son died inside me at 27 weeks my husband suffered right beside me. it was not only my child that died but our child. if it is only my choice then it is only my child. my husband must be a fool for the months he spent crying himself to sleep. it was my body but our loss. i know cyber says it is a baby because it passed that magic 25 week line but i dont think for 1 minute 3weeks would have changed things. i was my child the moment that i knew a person was growing inside me. a person with their own dna, their own soul.

 

[Rino]

Because to me, that IS a baby. I personally would never consider having or have an abortion, unless the child was conceived by rape for instance. But then again, I don't sleep with a man who I'm not serious with or vice/versa.

But, I do feel that it is a woman's choice whether or not I agree with her or her decision. It's not my place to tell someone else what they should believe or feel regarding their mental or personal health.

That is what confuses me. You believe she has a choice to kill what you know to be a baby?

This does not even have to be a religious debate. http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html
http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/pub-thelib-01.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/debates/secularist/abortion/roth5.html

 

[2luvmy]

Laugh all you want, it does cause kids to stop having sex. No, of course, not all of them but among the group that would use abortion as a last ditch effort, it certainly prevents sexual exposure.

Cal

Cal, one of my research assignments has been the issue of pre-marital sex.

Abortion not being an option will never stop teens from having sex.

In my research, during the late 40's until the mid 70's, teens were having sex at record numbers. The only one's getting caught were the girls that got pregnant. How do you think adoption came to be such a lucrative business? During the above mentioned time period, record numbers of babies were being born to single mothers who were hidden away or forced into maternity homes until it was time to deliver and relinquish the child.

Birth's began to decrease when birth control became an option for females that were not married and abortion was legalized.


While abortion is not for me, I realize that it is for others.

I think in no way should fathers have to sign before a woman is granted an abortion. It is ridiculous. While there are some fathers that are clearly capable of childrearing, there are some that are not.


I can tell you that my DD's father was against abortion. If abortion was something that I wanted and I had to ask his permission, there would be a whole heap of trouble. He talks a great game and told me that he would be there for me & my children, etc. and I gurantee he could get the courts to believe it too. If I wasn't already aware of his shenannigans and I and the courts fell for that BS and awarded him custody, my kids would be professional con artists living the ghetto fabulous life or destitute. My oldest would be dead because he has no idea how to pronounce her medical condition, let alone provide medical care.

I believe there are reasons women seek out abortion and the relationship with the father is one of them.