Ohio puts 200-pound third-grader in foster care

[raeann]

Exactly....which absolutely proves that a solution to the problem is not simple......perhaps the best solution has been found, there is not enough public information for any of us to determine that an error has been made. If it was as easy to solve as just saying "eat less, move more" that would be great....but there are always underlying causes due to a multitude of factors, and if those are not addressed, nothing will change. Until this society stops implying that overweight people are "simply" lazy and lacking in character and self control and begins to show sincere concern for helping find a viable solution, the obesity problem will continue.

imo

 

[AnaTeresa]

Given that not_my_kids mentioned working with a doctor and a a nutritionist, I'm sure s/he knows about portion size.

Also, I don't think it's necessarily wise to tell someone "this is a portion size - if you're still hungry after eating, you must still stop." Hunger cues are a normal part of everyday functioning. In an ideal world, people eat more when they are hungry and less when they are not. Telling a child they cannot eat, even if they are still hungry is, in my opinion, laying the foundation for disordered thoughts on eating, which can lead to binging or restricting mindsets. Hunger cues and cravings are important, provided one is eating a healthy diet. It's like thirst - it's a guidepost for what your body needs.

It's one thing to say, wait a bit for your food to digest and see if you're still hungry after a normal portion size. It's entirely another, in my opinion, to say "ok, you're done," particularly if you're dealing with a hungry child.

 

[Chewy]

Society is not responsible though, for personal responsibility. Society doesn't make you eat. You make yourself eat. Eating isn't like breathing, something over which you have no control, and self control and self awareness are really the issues.

Most people I know who are overweight are deluded about the amount of food they eat. They think being "hungry" is a bad thing that needs to be fixed.

I'm not skinny by any means, but several times a day I'm hungry. I could do the lazy thing and do a quick fix or I could exercise self control. Like drink a glass of ice water.

Honestly I also think that a lot of overweight people confuse thirst with hunger pangs.


Everyone has difficulties in life choices. I don't exercise nearly as much as I should. But the thing is, when I'm confronted about my health issues I don't make lots of excuses about how it's not my responsibility.


This is something that I think is very common with obese people and why they get a lof of judgment and backlash. I know it's not fair but it's sort of brought on by these kinds of arguments:

I have a thyroid issue (Well yes, you created a thyroid issue because of your eating choices and now it affects your weight even more)

I have weak joints so I can't exercise (Well yes, you created the weak joints because of your eating choices and now it affects your joints)


I don't eat any more than my friends do and they aren't fat (Well explain that? Know your limits? Some people can drink a lot without getting drunk, other people can't. If you know that after 2 glasses of wine you get drunk, you don't get to drink a whole bottle because your friends can and not get drunk. What would you say to someone who made that excuse for blacking out "It's not my fault, my friends can drink 2 bottles and not get drunk so I thought it was ok" Maybe the first time it would be one thing. But people don't get obese by eating a lot for a month.)


You can be healthy and fit and be overweight. If you are happy with yourself fine. But to burden a child with this is very very wrong in my opinion. This is child abuse and the parent might not be able to control themselves and need to get support to help them raise a healthy child.

 

[oh_gal]

Most "temporary" removals last more than a year. That's just because CPS has to get the case back into court multiple tmies to return children once they have taken them, and that takes time.

They say they worked with the family for a year and a half. Until they are willing to prove it, it's just words from a CPS worker and those are close to worthless, IMO.

It wasn't just CPS working with the family, but doctors, too. I'm sure there are records to back that up.

Not every CPS experience is underhanded or unnecessary.

 

[oh_gal]

BBM

I disagree. It's really as simple as eat less & move around more. It's not rocket science.

Life would be so much simpiler, and more pleasant, if it was just that black and white, wouldn't it?

Eat less, move around more.

In a perfect world, devoid of pain, loss, depression, anger, peer pressure, hopelessness and fear, yeah..that would probably work. The part of the equation you left out was that this only works if your life is on a pretty even keel.

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people use food to mask feelings of worthlessness, depression, sadness and insecurity. You just shovel it in, and shovel it in, hoping to fill that "void", but it never gets filled. For me, it was the result of an abusive relationship, and feelings of fear, worthlessness, anxiety, anger, sadness...oh, I could go on and on! I wasn't in counselling, and these issues weren't being dealt with healthfully.

Of course, not everyone eats to fill the void. Some people drink alcohol; or gamble; or shop; or engage in risky behaviors, whether sexual, or otherwise.

And until those core issues are dealt with, nothing will ever fill the void.

Been there, done that.

Perhaps this young guy is eating to fill some type of void. We haven't heard anything about a psychological work up, now that I think about it, although I did hear that he's on the honor roll. That could cause pressure and anxiety.

Yes, the more I think about it, it seems to me that we don't have the whole story. There's some major piece of information missing.

 

[Chewy]

He's a child though, not a teen ager. If he is shoveling it in to fill a void, then his parents are further remiss in their duty.

 

[not_my_kids]

It wasn't just CPS working with the family, but doctors, too. I'm sure there are records to back that up.

Not every CPS experience is underhanded or unnecessary.

The agency as it stands now is itself by it's very nature underhanded and so useless as to be unnecessary. MOO.

 

[sorrell skye]

A 2007 study of lean versus morbidly obese subjects demonstrated a link between rapid gastric emptying of solid foods in the morbidly obese, leading to an increased caloric intake due to a lack of feeling full.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17476878

BACKGROUND: It has been suggested that obesity is associated with an altered rate of gastric emptying. The objective of the present study was to determine whether the rates of solid and semi-solid gastric emptying differ between morbidly obese patients and lean subjects.

CONCLUSION: The present study demonstrated a significantly enhanced gastric emptying of the solid meal test in morbidly obese patients when compared to lean subjects. This finding is compatible with the hypothesis that rapid gastric emptying in morbidly obese subjects increases caloric intake due to a more rapid loss of satiety.

 

[not_my_kids]

Even though I get where you are coming from, I have to wonder why it isn't simple to teach someone that THIS is a portion size and even if you are still hungry you have to stop eating.

I mean all of us I would imagine have eaten an entire container of Haggen Daz ice cream, knowing full well it was about 10,000 calories, we all break the rules from time to time.

However when I make portions I show my kids the real sizes. A serving size of cheese is the size of two dice.

A serving size of steak is about the size of a deck of cards. That is the actual serving size. Hardly anyone I know eats that way. But to say that a normal portion size to an obese person is not enough, well that's the simple answer right there.

Engage will power, smarten up and realize that the "normal serving size" is probably 3 times larger than it should be, if you are eating even MORE then of COURSE you are going to gain weight.

http://www.thatsfit.com/2009/12/03/portion-size/

According to his nutrritionist, it is actually much more healthy to eat an appropriate serving of a healthy food, wait twenty minutes, which is how long it takes for food to reach the bottom of the stomach and register with the body as being there, and if the person is still hungry, then eat a small serving of a low calorie food like carrots or celery sticks as a supplement. It is not healthy to stop eating while you are still hungry, as it can shrink your stomach, and that can lead to other problems that are much harder to correct than an incorrect weight.

 

[Chewy]

Why do you need to "feel full?" That's what I posted about before, how obese people seem to think "being hungry" is an excuse to eat.

Rather than eating what fuel you need to run your body.

 

[Melanie]

Also going out on a limb here...

If the child has no metabolic reason for his weight gain, then there is no medication that will help him (short of diet pills or surgery). What that leaves, then, is behavior modification in terms of what he is eating, and the amount of exercise he is getting. Doctors can only do so much. They can tell his mom all the right things to do, but if she's not listening, or he's not listening....what more can they do?

They've had 1 1/2 years to show some improvement. That seems like a pretty generous time frame to me. Perhaps the reason for taking him away (temporarily) is to put him in an environment where his food can be more closely monitored and prepared, and he is able to get some physical activity.

Only guessing here, and only guessing based on what has been reported. We haven't heard that he has some metabolic disorder, so it seems, at this point, anyway, that it all comes down to food choices and activity.

Hopefully he will be back with his family soon, though. I'm sure he misses them, and they, him.

It sounds like the family have also been involved in a nutrition program to no avail

The family was enrolled in a nutrition program through Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital, Riteout said.

"(The) situation did not improve. The medical concerns remained serious," Riteout explained.

I wonder if the parent(s) just thought that nothing would happen if the child didn't lose weight and this is a last ditch effort to save him. Sleep apnea at 8? My goodness!

I really hope he is able to lose weight. I imagine that CFS is putting him somewhere to determine if he's able to lose weight, and if the problem remains at home. If he loses weight and goes home and gains it back, then that's pretty clear cut it's a family problem. I hope it doesn't end that way.

MOO

Mel

 

[Chewy]

According to his nutrritionist, it is actually much more healthy to eat an appropriate serving of a healthy food, wait twenty minutes, which is how long it takes for food to reach the bottom of the stomach and register with the body as being there, and if the person is still hungry, then eat a small serving of a low calorie food like carrots or celery sticks as a supplement. It is not healthy to stop eating while you are still hungry, as it can shrink your stomach, and that can lead to other problems that are much harder to correct than an incorrect weight.

Who in the world said that? I've never heard such a thing, what studies do they have to back it up and what health risks are they suggesting are "much harder to correct."

 

[oh_gal]

He's a child though, not a teen ager. If he is shoveling it in to fill a void, then his parents are further remiss in their duty.

Oh, I agree that it seems, anyway, that the parents dropped the ball on this one, at least, based on what we know. But what if he was getting food from friends, or buying it after school with lunch or allowance money?

I just seems to me that if everyone is doing what they should be doing (parents, child) in terms of eating healthy foods in appropriate portion sizes and/or caloric guidelines, AND the child has no metabolic issue; AND the child has no underlying emotional issue that is not being treated, AND the child is active enough, THEN he shouldn't be morbidly obese, it simply cannot happen.

That's what makes me think we're not getting the whole story. There's something missing.

 

[oh_gal]

Who in the world said that? I've never heard such a thing, what studies do they have to back it up and what health risks are they suggesting are "much harder to correct."

Maybe NotMyKids is talking about severely calorie-restricted diets (you know, the kind where you eat 500-750 calories a day)? I can see where only eating that much, and still being hungry and not being able to eat more would be unhealthy.

 

[sorrell skye]

Why do you need to "feel full?" That's what I posted about before, how obese people seem to think "being hungry" is an excuse to eat.

Rather than eating what fuel you need to run your body.

The sensation of "feeling full" or sated after a meal is a chemical signal that triggers a response in the brain. If the stomach empties rapidly, it would seem that the necessary physiological signal that would normally be sent to the brain is not triggered, hence, a person would still feel hungry even after consuming a meal.

Hunger is a healthy biological urge, otherwise, no one would eat, as the thought of food would be repulsive. Likewise, satiety is a healthy biological sensation, as it induces a person to stop eating. Unfortunately, if someone's stomach empties too rapidly, the sensation of hunger is not sated and overeating occurs, as was demonstrated in the study I posted upthread.

 

[not_my_kids]

Since digestion does not actually occur in the stomach, but the intestines, the stomach is really nothing but a prep and staging area for food before it enters that small intestine. If you are not overeating, but still force yourself to stop while you are hungry, you might not take in enough food to produce the right amount of chyme (what your stomach turns food into before sending it to the intestines) to provide adequate nutrition. This can lead to uncontrolled bulimia, in which you eat a large meal, and the feeling of being full is so disturbing that the body rejects food until it feels normal (hungry) again. It can lead to deficiencies in many different vitamins and minerals and a whole host of other issues.

 

[krimekat]

Travesty that gov't is so prevalent in our lives that this could happen . . .

I understand that there is a role, but this is over the top when compared to other cases (where they TOTALLY drop the ball)

Examples are plenty & we discuss them every single day.

 

[Melanie]

I do. I don't buy anything but base ingredients from the grocery store. Fresh fruit and veggies are snacks. I don't buy premade or processed. And yet, he's still overweight. This is after we did have done food journals , some lastin gup to a month, of everything he eats, how much and when, in realtion to how much physical activity. I was completely honest in those journals and even his doctor and nutritionist said he should have been losing weight. But, yet, he isn't. His nutritionist has chalked it up to bad genetics and says that we'll re evaluate later on, because nothing short of intensive dieting would have an effect, and we can't do that without risking his vitamin and nutrient intake.

If I knew then what I know now life wouldn't have been so stressful. When my little butter ball was young (8-10) he was a chubby wubby no matter how little he ate. Looking back at piccies now I have a hard time believing he was so round on the diet he lived on. Not 100% healthy, but also not full of hormones and preservatives either. We never went the journal route, but we did watch his intake closely. I was certain he'd be a 300 pound teen if he kept up the weight gain.

I really believe genetics have a play in how our children grow. Looking back at pics of DH, he was also a butter ball during the same time. But both DH and DS have grown up to be tall and lean. So go figure.

My opinion is if you're child is eating healthy, consuming the appropriate number of calories, and getting enough exercise - don't stress about it. Chances are he/she is gonna grow into a tall lean teenager and have some pretty darn good eating habits! Of course I'm no doctor, just speaking from my experience.

MOO

Mel

ETA piccie. Pretty much the same diet at 5th grade and 9th grade -- just now he eats a whole lot more and is about 3 foot taller!

 

[AnaTeresa]

Why do you need to "feel full?" That's what I posted about before, how obese people seem to think "being hungry" is an excuse to eat.

Rather than eating what fuel you need to run your body.

Why do you need to drink when you're thirsty? Hunger cues exist for a reason. While they can end up "misfiring" due to medical conditions, medication, or conditioning (such as under/over eating for an extended period of time), they are intended to give the person a signal that their body needs more fuel. Cravings, too, when the body is in optimum condition, give you signs that you need more iron, certain vitamins, fat, etc. While it may be necessary to realign your body's signals and ignore hunger cues if you are recovering from an eating disorder or some type of medication, in general, it's not a long term solution.

Things like feeling sleepy, thirst, or hunger are natural, important functions for the body. Ignoring your body or trying to make it bend to your will is never a good thing.

And also, just a personal anecdote - I had a friend whose mother was very health and size conscious. Neither my friend nor her sister were overweight, but they were never allowed seconds, even on days when they had extra physical activity, such as dance or playing outdoors. Portions were in proper line with their age and size, but they were strictly regimented. Guess who both developed eating disorders? My friend went through a very long stretch of restricted calories, ignoring her hunger cues. Her sister went nuts upon leaving the house, eating anything and everything far too often, because she was finally able to feel full. Of course, she went beyond satiation to feeling full to the point of discomfort, and it had an effect.

Telling a child to ignore their body's natural hunger pains is basically teaching a child disordered thinking with regards to food.

 

[oh_gal]

Travesty that gov't is so prevalent in our lives that this could happen . . .

I understand that there is a role, but this is over the top when compared to other cases (where they TOTALLY drop the ball)

Examples are plenty & we discuss them every single day.

So...you would sacrifice the life of a child?

These people had 1 1/2 years to show an improvement; the parents attended nutrition/healthy eating classes; nothing worked. Are we supposed to just stand by, and watch a child die rather than have government officials step in? Maybe the parents have some type of learning disability (being totally serious here)...and maybe they just don't "get it." Shouldn't someone help them? Their family, friends, church, and doctor weren't having any luck, if they were trying to help.

Saving a child's life is "over the top"? Would it be "over the top" if it were a child you loved and cared about? Or would you do anything necessary to save them?