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Very well said. Legally she was in the wrong too...she knew what Hobbs had done, what he threatened....she knew the restrictions that the court/Aja's father had imposed...and she brought Aja to this
I don't see any reason to sugarcoat
I doubt we will ever know for sure what happened that night. Hobbs sister invited Tanya and Aja over for a birthday party - turned out to be a family dinner to say goodby to Hobbs who was going to be sent to prison the next morning.
To be honest, don't know exactly what Tanya was told (party or dinner) but to be sure, Hobbs insisted on this get together. He wanted to say his goodbyes! Tanya wasn't expecting to stay the night and didn't bring clothes or Aja's medication.
I've had my doubts all along that Hobbs had this entire evening planned - using his sister to get Aja and Tanya over. Maybe Hobbs threatened Tanya and the life of Aja - we really don't know for sure why she went over to the sister's place. I think Tanya paid for that mistake with her life and her daughter's life - I think she died trying to protect beautiful Aja. moo
I honestly don't see how blaming Tanya changes things. I have no problem assigning blame - little Robert Manwill's mother and her boyfriend are despicable people right along with Casey Anthony, and so many others. Why so many blame mom in all cases here on WS and in other media is beyond me - it would be a great subject for a PHD dissertation. moo
http://www.kwtv.com/global/story.asp?s=11874548He said Aja was supposedly going to a family member's birthday party and left with clothes for an overnight stay with her mother.
He said he left her with her mother, who had supervised visitation rights, to go to a birthday party on Friday, and that was the last he had seen her.
"Tonya said if the party went too late that they might stay overnight, so that’s all she had was a pair of clothing for that evening and that day and her medication for that evening and the next morning,” Johnson said.
http://nosufferingfools.lefora.com/...missing-taken-by-stepfather-after-he-k/page2/Alice Dunkin, the mother of Tonya Hobbs, said Tonya, Aja, and Aja’s 13-year-old half-sister Koressa left Friday afternoon to visit Hobbs in Geronimo. Hobbs was worried about a pending court date and wanted to see the girls, Dunkin said.
Koressa was the one who alerted neighbors that something was wrong when she woke up and found her mother’s RV locked and her mother’s car missing. The neighbor discovered Tonya Hobbs’ body and immediately called police.
Dunkin said the 13-year-old is with family friend Roy Anderson in Newcastle.
In the written report for Aja it says no cut marks on the clothing.
peoplel blame moms when little girls like amanda runyion end up beat so hard they have to have organs removed...........and all mom does is give her a motrin. people blame moms when kids starve and she wont dont anything cause it would 'upset' her boyfriend (but it doesnt stop her from stuffing her own face)
i only assign blame where it should be......and the fact is that tonya put aja in harms way, and she's dead because of it.
What do you make of the "upper part of left forearm, irregular ends" "There is no rest of the forearm and hand". I take this to mean that the forearm itself was broken. The animal activity I've seen normally separates at the joints instead of breaking bones in sections.
I haven't seen the tox either.
I really don't like to assign blame in this sort of case but if your going to blame Tonya than you have to also assign some blame to J.J. Tonya had supervised visitation. There was a reason the court ordered ssupervised visitation. The court trusted J.J. to protect Aja. They knew Tonya wasn't trustworthy but they thought J.J. was. Now saying that, My feelings are that Tonya was an abused woman and that messed with her thinking process. As for J.J., I believe he did the best he could and wishes he could go back and keep Aja with him. There was only one monster here. Thats where the real blame goes.JMO
I think the best opportunity lies in educating and convincing the "other" parent not to stray from what they know is the right thing to do. This is not the first or last case where this has happened. This is the parent that we have a chance at getting through to. The parent who has custody because they and the law knew that the child would be in danger if they were with the other parent. These are the parents that need to hold fast and not give in, the ones that need to understand that it only takes one unsupervised visit for things to go horribly wrong. These are the ones we need to reach out to.
A tragedy yes...but one easily prevented.
It should be a lesson to all.....people don't change. You can't let your guard down. I am sure the poor dad feels horrible...but let's be honest...he went through all those fights and court battles and then he turns around and does the opposite??
It is a huge mistake to think that people are going to change. It is a huge mistake to think of anything "just this once" or "just until"
One problem is that "good" people tend to think that "bad' people are going to somehow get better...they usually don't.
Here is an "old fable" that I really appreciate :
THE LADY AND THE SNAKE
It was really cold and a nice lady had a warm blanket. A poisonous snake nearby was shivering and begged the lady just to pick him up long enough for him to get warm. She resisted saying "you are a poisonous snake and you will bite me and I'll die!" He begged and pleaded and promised not to bite her so she finally gave in and picked him up and wrapped him in the blanket. He bit her and as she was laying there dying she asked "why did you bite me - you promised you wouldn't?" As he slithered away he looked back and said:
"Lady you knew I was a snake when you picked me up
Well....some bad people can change I grant you
People who are alcoholics and addicts can and do "recover' with the 12 steps
however...most of us in a dire situation like this one are NOT in a position to judge if someone has changed
There was NOTHING in this case to say that Hobbs had changed
In fact he was on his way to prison...a time of stress and a time when people are more likely to flip out
T apparently had the battered woman syndrome....her choice..too bad she dragged poor Aja into it. Let's be honest here....they had lawyers, judges, hearings...the court order was in place for a reason....there is ample evidence that Aja was hurt badly by Hobbs before..she should never have been exposed to him
There was also ample reason to never let Tonya alone with Aja since for whatever her own sick reasons she apparently could not grasp that a snake like Hobbs was not going to change.
Maybe years of sobriety along with psychiatric help and intense anger management courses would have made this jerk acceptable to be around ...and even then I would be watching my back
the court order was in place for a reason....T had placed Aja in danger before....Hobbs was a violent man....there were real reason to follow that court order....if T wasn't "together" enough to follow it, then others should have imposed it
Aja is the one who paid the price IMHO
Correct. That was why I mentioned 'underneath' her clothing.
Logicalminds
I'm not sure how alcoholics and addicts automatically qualify as "bad people"???
Oriah
Did investigator look at prints in the area? Did they look for the missing forearm and hand? Often they have been dragged off, but aren't that far away. Did the bring in HRD dogs to find the missing parts?
I agree completely that animals due an incredible amount of damage. I'm not familiar with what kinds of large predators would likely be in the area? A good tracker should be able to tell LE what's been there.
I don't know why the arm thing stuck with me, but it did, just something in my gut. Completely agree that in a rage he couldn't have snapped it like a toothpick. I'm not sure if Hobbs would have even needed alcohol to go there, he was just a vicious violent man.
I know that they haven't found a weapon, have they really looked? He certainly could have killed her and then taken a long walk to "cool off" disposed of it and then come back.
If there was enough left to tell cuts vs tears should they not also be able to tell if it was animal made?
After this case and the other two I've been reading involving OSBI I am more skeptical than ever that things are being done properly so I find myself question more than normal (which is a whole lot to start with).