OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

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missgulfsouth said:
Do you believe that people know who did it and refuse to say? I've never understood those who keep such secrets in order to protect evil people.
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No, not for a minute. This case has been a horrific nightmare, I've never heard any rumors of someone keeping a secret.
 
missgulfsouth said:
So they were intending to take the girls and the tape and flashlight that were left by the bodies? I'm so thankful that didn't happen.
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This is only my opinion. I think they were stuffed into their sleeping bags and carried by one or two people. Then they dropped them and ran.
 
Henry2326 said:
it is astounding the number of cases where the locals will not talk. Sometimes its to avoid the criticism from others in town who can't see the dark side. While sometimes they feel there is more to lose for their own families by getting involved in something they don't fully understand although aware that it is a bad situation. Very sad.....
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What gives you the impression that the locals will not talk? That is not true. Maybe in other crimes in other places, but in this case, they talk. If only to express sadness on the anniversary each year.

Nice signature, btw. ;)
 
missgulfsouth said:
And a Minister named LaTurner who says he was with the men that night but police never listened to him ... what a convoluted mess.
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LOL Ted LaTurner wasn't a minister, he was a private investigator and raging alcoholic. He was, however trying to petition for a grand jury to look at the case. He didn't get enough signatures, so no grand jury. He moved to FL, I believe and passed away.
 
Betty P said:
If you read Barbara Day's testimony at the links here ( I think hers was on day 4), she states the girl scout who found the threatening note was there a few months before the murders on a different camp out. The girl threw it away and didn't mention it to anyone until after the murders, when she told her mother,who told LE. That's when Barbara Day found out about it. Verified by Ranger Ben who lived at the Camp full time. He said he didn't hear about the girl finding the note until it was reported in the news in August after the murders.

Link

http://www.campscottmurders.com/pre-trial-volumes.html
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Thank you Betty! The note has taken on a life of its own over the years.
 
HoneyWest said:
Thank you Betty! The note has taken on a life of its own over the years.
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Do you believe there was a note, or was that made up for drama?
I can't believe the people who did this would keep hush, when innocent people were confessing to the crime. Murderers love to brag. And so many people supported GLH and wanted him acquitted, I have to wonder what lengths they would go to keep secrets. JMO
 
Reading Carla Wilhite's pre-trial testimony now. She was head counselor at Kiowa, 18 years old. Had been a counselor a few times.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/86f8345cd1d...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Her testimony differs slightly from Dee Elder's (the other counselor), but mostly because Carla was wide awake that night and got up and Dee was sleeping, not too awake at 1:30 am. That was when Carla heard the guttural noise by the fence, went over to it, shined light, it stopped. She says she decided then it was an animal.

Dee Elder was also questioned extensively about a wet towel the counselors were using to dry off and later wipe their feet. According to Carla, the towel belonged to Susan, the 3rd counselor.

Carla is also asked about her glasses. She had 2 pair with her. One she wore (the kind that turned dark in the sun) and a regular spare pair that she kept in a crate next to her bed. Crate was at the front edge of the tent and the front flap was open that night, so counselors could watch the kids.

Carla didn't realize the spare pair of glasses were missing until the 14th, when the counselors were allowed to go back to their tents to retrieve belongings with LE and the Dist Atty. Once the counselors returned to Kiowa the day of the murders and removed the scouts to the Main Hall, they were not allowed to return to Kiowa unit. It was a crime scene. They didn't return til the 14th, with supervision.

I was curious about this before, because Ranger Ben, IIRC, was asked if any of the Kiowa counselors said anything about missing items the day of the murders. He said, no, they hadn't. That's because the day of the murders, once the counselors left their tent upon discovery of the dead girls, they didn't re-enter the tent until the next day. No one had time to notice if anything was missing from their tent on the 13th.

Ambulance driver reported he was with search group that found the glasses near the road by the crime scene about an hour or so after the bodies were discovered.

Why is this important? It makes it hard to claim that OSBI or local sheriff stole Carla's glasses & case and planted them near the crime scene to frame Hart. There wasn't a lot of time to wait for the counselors to herd the campers out, then search the counselor tent, find things to take and plant them back near the crime scene.

Within an hour of arriving, it also seems unlikely any LE were already plotting to plant evidence to frame Hart. They were too busy searching and securing the crime scene and asking questions of the witnesses. JMO
 
missgulfsouth said:
Do you believe there was a note, or was that made up for drama?
I can't believe the people who did this would keep hush, when innocent people were confessing to the crime. Murderers love to brag. And so many people supported GLH and wanted him acquitted, I have to wonder what lengths they would go to keep secrets. JMO
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Yes, I believe there probably was a note. Not sure why the senior girl scout would make it up. She was 15 or 16. She said she thought it was a prank by other campers at the time (it happened in April, two months before the murders), but probably later realized it might be important. Then again it might have been her imagination.

Not sure what you mean about killers keeping silent, but I doubt the 16 yo girl scout (who wasn't at Camp Scott on June 13) was involved.

ETA: As for GLH and his family and close friends, I don't find it at all unusual they would keep silent after the murders. They closed ranks.
 
MaryG12 said:
Did LE ever establish that size 7 sneakers as being women's size 7, or men's size 7?


Between the missing items stolen from the nearby rancher used in the murder, and the cave, someone had to know the lay of the land and surrounding areas pretty well.


Like maybe someone who has been to that camp before?





So that note was never retrieved, maybe disposed of in a manner where it could not be found again (like tossed into the nearby river, or buried in the soil) so that a handwriting comparison/analysis could be done.


Was there just that one note, or was there another note?







No known motive, it is much easier to say some sociopath whose target was little girls was creeping around the area getting ready to strike, but even then I am not so sure.


I know it does not explain why Camp Scott closed immediately afterward, which is why I asked about Scott property ownership.


And, why drag the bodies outside the tent?
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I don't think the camp closing soon afterward is anything to be surprised at. Who would let their child (whether camper or counselor) go there after what happened?
 
I think the tents were raided while everyone was in the dining hall waiting for the storm to pass.
 
Betty P said:
Yes, I believe there probably was a note. Not sure why the senior girl scout would make it up. She was 15 or 16. She said she thought it was a prank by other campers at the time (it happened in April, two months before the murders), but probably later realized it might be important. Then again it might have been her imagination.

Not sure what you mean about killers keeping silent, but I doubt the 16 yo girl scout (who wasn't at Camp Scott on June 13) was involved.

ETA: As for GLH and his family and close friends, I don't find it at all unusual they would keep silent after the murders. They closed ranks.
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The killers surely would have bragged, so someone has to know who did it and isn't talking. I have no reason to think the killers worked at the camp. I think there were at least 2 men and possibly a woman. I think they were a small sadistic gang who were playing a game. Hanging out in the woods for weeks after the crime, planting shoes under detectives noses, breaking string in the trees, playing cat and mouse. They enjoyed it.
 
missgulfsouth said:
The killers surely would have bragged, so someone has to know who did it and isn't talking. I have no reason to think the killers worked at the camp. I think there were at least 2 men and possibly a woman. I think they were a small sadistic gang who were playing a game. Hanging out in the woods for weeks after the crime, planting shoes under detectives noses, breaking string in the trees, playing cat and mouse. They enjoyed it.
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So they played this whole big sadistic game one time, getting off on it, bragged about it, and yet immediately retired from their criminal activities?

I don't know, that doesn't seem very logical to me.

Sadistic murderers in general tend to escalate their crimes seeking ever bigger (for them) thrills.
 
Well there was at least one sadistic psychopath who enjoyed taunting police and scaring girls in the dark. He was fond of hog tying, stealing glasses, and rape. But I don't think he did this alone. 3 crowbars. 3 beers. Maybe they all had their comeuppance and died soon after. Maybe there was justice, after all.
 
missgulfsouth said:
Do you believe there was a note, or was that made up for drama?
I can't believe the people who did this would keep hush, when innocent people were confessing to the crime. Murderers love to brag. And so many people supported GLH and wanted him acquitted, I have to wonder what lengths they would go to keep secrets. JMO
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I believe that there was a note. Someone stole a girl's donuts and put the note in the donut box. I've heard people say the note said they were going to kill 3, 4, and 5 girls. Then people believed the camp director found the note the night before summer camp and just threw it away. The story about the note just took on so many different versions on the internet. Also, Camp Garland was right there 1/4 mile away. Maybe some Boy Scouts wanted to scare the girls. I don't know.
 
HoneyWest said:
What gives you the impression that the locals will not talk? That is not true. Maybe in other crimes in other places, but in this case, they talk. If only to express sadness on the anniversary each year.

Nice signature, btw. ;)
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Thanks! I have some reading to do on this case. So sorry for the suffering of all related to it...[emoji25]

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
 
I hate asking this, but were they all sexually assaulted?
 
 
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