OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

TooCurious · Dec 10, 2013

OkieGranny said:
Oh, yeah, the perp(s) would likely need a four-wheel-drive. But such vehicles are very common in Oklahoma, even in the city. Kind of a macho thing, I guess, to drive a big ol' honkin' truck like that. It wouldn't be that hard to get hold of one, if one wasn't already on hand.

Not a "macho thing", 4x4 are almost a necessity in rural Oklahoma and 1 could argue they are in town as well. When the snow hits it usually take 3 to 4 days for a city crew to drop sand/salt on residential areas. (Depending on size of town) I agree they are very, very common in OK. I have 2 and live on dirt roads. You actually see many women driving them too!

Smooth,
I think I would much rather take a month of living with the Mountain Folks than a day on Crump Blvd! Memphis can get rough!

Snoopster · Dec 10, 2013

SmoothOperator said:
Just to give some background on where I am possibly coming from with some of my theories on why/what happened to the Jamison family..

I, myself, 15 or so years ago would have had no earthly idea about what life was like in some(emphasis on some, and by far not all) very, very, very rural and small communities located in different parts of the country.. I have always grown up, and lived in total suburbia.. On the outskirts of a major city(Memphis).. And it wasn't until 15 or so years ago when I met my husband that I even knew that this type of community existed in rural America..

He is from a smallish town, but his father after divorcing from his mom moved into the much smaller, much, much more rural and mountainous areas outside of "town".. It was from and through his father and his experiences that he endured and lived through, that I learned about the existence of such rural, extremely tight knit communities..

I know that for me, personally it just seems quite literally absurd and not even believable that a family could be murdered for such an insane reason as the people of the very rural community that they were planning to move to..that certain people not wanting the family to live there would be good enough cause to take out/murder an entire family of 3(most importantly a 6yo innocent child).. And while I do still find it absurd, unfathomable.. I do however, unfortunately also know for a fact that it does happen.. And it does happen for such reasons as I've detailed in some of my theories..

As stark raving crazy as it may sound or seem.. The truth is there are people within some very, very, very rural areas of the country who are very much willing to kill whoever necessary in order to protect their way of living..and there are always differing reasons and motivators for each of these people who are of this type mindset, and believe it to be within "their rights" to protect their way of life at all costs from anyone they perceive as threatening and/or even just as outsiders.. What I mean by within "their rights" is that some, not all, but some of these type rural communities almost have a whole other "system" by which they live..

I don't know..it really is hard to put into words what I know by having seen it first hand.. There are people willing to go to any lengths necessary to keep their way of life..yes, even murdering a family.. I learned that early on, when my husband and his father put their blood, sweat, and tears into building his beautiful "cabin in the woods" in one of the "hollers" in a community of people with this exact type, sick mindset..These sick people set that beautiful home on fire, and not just on fire, but literally an engulfing of flames so quickly, and so thoroughly that it was to the ground, no longer existing, within a very short period of time..MOST IMPORTANTLY IT WAS SET ON FIRE WITH THE ENTIRE FAMILY INSIDE. MEN, WOMEN, ADULT CHILDREN, ALONG WITH GRANDCHILDREN, AND EVEN BABIES!

I've seen it happen.. I know this mindset, mentality, and way of life very much do exist in some very rural areas of the country(just as loon-toon mindsets exist in urban/suburban areas of the country as well)..and as crazy and unbelievable as it may seem, it very much does exist and people(yes, even entire families) have been killed for quite literally no good reason at all.. Just because of the way they were perceived by members of these type communities.

Thanks for sharing this 'Smooth'! I lived in a 'bubble' as well. I really don't get this type of thinking. I truly hope that there are simple. basic people who care! I have to think this is the case for humanity.

(I grew up in large cities and suburbia. I now live in a relatively small city of just under half a million. The rest of my family thinks I live in the boonies. But 'super small remote town', well that is something that I just don't understand. I thought that small communities were supposed to care!?)

TooCurious · Dec 10, 2013

Relatively small does not equate to 1/2 million people. These are communities with maybe 2500 or less. Tue community I live close to has about 1200 residents. I have been out "exploring" before but after the first time I never get out without being armed in some fashion. Far too easy to disappear on lonely dirt roads. That first time I went out checking out the country, I ran into some people living beside the river. I mean I went from totally alone no one in sight to being in the middle of their set up. You could see old batteries that were burnt and fires for stripping copper. Not a good situation. I guess that wasn't enough for me, I got out of there and was looking around a few miles west of that location. This was a dirt country road and wound around getting into some deep thick stuff. There were no power lines, no signs of recent travel, no signs of civilization really, but I rounded a curve and there was a trailer not 50 yards off with boarded up windows and a wood stove pipe coming out of the living room. It was creepy to say the least. I guess what kept me from having two altercations that day is that it was fairly early in the am. You never know what you will run into out in the woods or the type of people you will find.
I think the Jamison's weren't lucky enough to avoid a confrontation and they met up with some bad people on the mountain. When I get some free time I may go up on that mountain, just to see where the truck was and where they were found. At the back of the well site, is that an old creek bed that wraps around the mountain? I am referencing one of OKgranie's pics. Could this be an easier route around the mountain?

OkieGranny · Dec 10, 2013

Just throwing this out there for perspective:

Latimer County covers 729 square miles with a total population of 11,019 souls, per 2012 U.S. Census data. The largest population centers in the vicinity of Panola Mountain are:

Wilburton, pop. 2,813
Quinton 1,025
Red Oak 538
Kinta 301

Soulmagent · Dec 10, 2013

TooCurious said:
Not a "macho thing", 4x4 are almost a necessity in rural Oklahoma and 1 could argue they are in town as well. When the snow hits it usually take 3 to 4 days for a city crew to drop sand/salt on residential areas. (Depending on size of town) I agree they are very, very common in OK. I have 2 and live on dirt roads. You actually see many women driving them too!

Smooth,
I think I would much rather take a month of living with the Mountain Folks than a day on Crump Blvd! Memphis can get rough!

Me too! I was driving though Memphis and some guy hit man and drove away ,leaving my poor totaled rented toyota in the road.

Then for the next 3 hours a very nice girl worked her area and I got to watch her pick up "jobs" ? Meanwhile in the parking lot some guy on a bike found a bag of something ... My back still hurts and I dont stop in Memphis anymore. Why dont the cars there ever have tags on them?

Mitch1 · Dec 10, 2013

Sherilynn, according to The Charley Project, had breast implants. Seems to me the implants should have been found (they are pretty durable) in the vicinity of the remains and LE would have been able to say that at least 1 of the adult remains may be female due to items recovered.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/j/jamison_sherilynn.html

Dallen · Dec 10, 2013

I hate to create opinions on what happened to this family based on stereotypes and assumptions of people in this part of the country, but in all honesty, I don't think it should be overlooked. Born and raised in OK, I can tell you, this part of the state has a reputation for its unorthodox, backwoods, criminal, violent ways. Growing up, I always heard people say, "There's 2 worlds in one state...SE Oklahoma and the rest of Oklahoma."

Dallen · Dec 10, 2013

Soulmagent said:
Me too! I was driving though Memphis and some guy hit man and drove away ,leaving my poor totaled rented toyota in the road.

Then for the next 3 hours a very nice girl worked her area and I got to watch her pick up "jobs" ? Meanwhile in the parking lot some guy on a bike found a bag of something ... My back still hurts and I dont stop in Memphis anymore. Why dont the cars there ever have tags on them?

My favorite post on this thread thus far.

TooCurious · Dec 11, 2013

Soulmagent said:
Me too! I was driving though Memphis and some guy hit man and drove away ,leaving my poor totaled rented toyota in the road.

Then for the next 3 hours a very nice girl worked her area and I got to watch her pick up "jobs" ? Meanwhile in the parking lot some guy on a bike found a bag of something ... My back still hurts and I dont stop in Memphis anymore. Why dont the cars there ever have tags on them?

Too funny!! I have watched those girls while at gas stations on 78, I have had the guy at the pilot open his jacket selling 50 different types of gold plated "Rolexes", I gas up before I am within 40 miles of Memphis and i don't get boxed in at red lights. It's a lot safer that way

SchoolgirlShamus · Dec 11, 2013

Mapman said:
The HRD clues are grouped tightly together at a point a little less than half way from the truck to the red ring at about a 1 or 2 O'clock direction. They almost look like one point unless you zoom in, and they are yellow flags labeled C7, C8, and so forth. These points are outside of the more concentrated search areas that we know of. If you want to take a close look, you should probably use google earth.

Thanks! I am unable to zoom in on the map, so the cluster of yellow flags did look like one to me. Gotcha.

Very interesting to note that the dogs "hit" in an area that is not Smokestack Hollow.

Inana · Dec 11, 2013

OkieGranny said:
http://www.geocommunicator.gov/blmMap/Map.jsp

Thanks soo much for this website! I'm a genealogist and this will be invaluable. I used to use TerraServer, but they want LOTS of money now to access.

My theory of the location according you your map is that they were found just east of the top pink dot, close to the east line marking Section 28.
Just my opinion.

OkieGranny · Dec 11, 2013

Inana said:
OkieGranny said:

http://www.geocommunicator.gov/blmMap/Map.jsp

Click to expand...

Thanks soo much for this website! I'm a genealogist and this will be invaluable. I used to use TerraServer, but they want LOTS of money now to access.

My theory of the location according you your map is that they were found just east of the top pink dot, close to the east line marking Section 28.
Just my opinion.

Glad to be of help! Our fellow sleuthers have taught me so much about tracking down info, so I like to share whenever I find a particularly useful website. Before joining WS, I never realized there were so many different ways to dig into a person's business, lol.

SchoolgirlShamus · Dec 11, 2013

Mitch1 said:
Maybe Im thinking of the wrong person, but I thought Chandra was found just 1 year later, after being murdered and dumped in a large park- Not found 4 years later after being lost in the woods and dying from exposure. I'm sorry to say these 2 situations aren't similar

Chandra Levy was an example of how sadly common it is for search parties to come relatively close to a body's location without finding it. Obviously the cases themselves are not similar. We don't know how close the search teams actually got to the Jamisons, but you said it seemed unlikely for them to miss them. Not at all.

Mitch1 said:
Chandra-murdered, the Jamisons-in context of my statement you quoted, died of exposure. Chandra-murdered at the site or dumped, the Jamisons-in context of of my statement you quoted, had to have died there. Chandra-found after 1 yr, the Jamisons-in context of my statement you quoted-found after 4yrs.

This was the statement I addressed:

Mitch1 said:
in post #257

Well whats the likelihood that, a family, gets lost in the woods, dies from exposure and has their remains go unfound (for 4yrs), even by the S & R teams who searched that exact area 2 wks after their disappearance? Seems unlikely imo

Given their approximate location and the terrain, the odds were very high that search teams would not find them. And they didn't.

SchoolgirlShamus · Dec 11, 2013

Mapman, question for you. In this map --

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39400&d=1386550709

-- does the dotted line curving around by the HRD hits (between the letter U and E in the word BLUE) indicate a road, even a dirt road?

If so, I think the likelihood of murder just rose in my mental thermometer.

Mitch1 · Dec 11, 2013

SchoolgirlShamus said:
Chandra Levy was an example of how sadly common it is for search parties to come relatively close to a body's location without finding it. Obviously the cases themselves are not similar. We don't know how close the search teams actually got to the Jamisons, but you said it seemed unlikely for them to miss them. Not at all.

This was the statement I addressed:

Given their approximate location and the terrain, the odds were very high that search teams would not find them. And they didn't.

The statement you were addressing:
Originally Posted by Mitch1
in post #257

Well whats the likelihood that, a family, gets lost in the woods, dies from exposure and has their remains go unfound (for 4yrs), even by the S & R teams who searched that exact area 2 wks after their disappearance? Seems unlikely imo

This, the post you quoted, is a given SET of circumstances, and a search team not finding them is only a small piece of that. The statement I made can be thought of synergistically-the whole is greater than the sum of it parts.
A family getting lost in the woods-Likely
Dying of exposure-Not likely-(exception is if freezing conditions existed)
Remains go unfound for 4 yrs even though search teams searched the exact area- Not Likely
All 3 of these things happening together-UNLIKELY

In Chandra's case they barely searched for her off that road and in the few articles I read, they only searched with cadets- NO HRD dogs

OkieGranny · Dec 11, 2013

OkieGranny · Dec 11, 2013

Just so y'all know how desperate I now am to turn up any new information, I'm looking at visitors on the Sandy Bass Bay's check-in page on Facebook. Sandy Bass Bay was the Jamisons' neighborhood on Lake Eufaula.

I did find something very interesting, though. An older gentleman who lives in the area complaining in May of last year about stray cats breeding in the neighborhood and killing the squirrels, says he's declared war and is "laying waiste" to them.

This was posted about two and a half years after the Jamisons went missing, but now I'm wondering if the stray cat problem was already an ongoing issue in 2009 and maybe that's what happened to Sherilyn's cats?

little726 · Dec 11, 2013

Granny, your work on the Jamison case is just awesome! Thank you!

I do have one more idea for you. Have you thought about emailing Andrew Knittle? He is the reporter who mentioned the coords being released by the Sheriff. I have wanted to email him several times, but my writing is horrible. Maybe he could at least get us an update.

Here's his address: aknittle@opubco.com

Tulessa · Dec 11, 2013

OkieGranny said:
Oh, yeah, the perp(s) would likely need a four-wheel-drive. But such vehicles are very common in Oklahoma, even in the city. Kind of a macho thing, I guess, to drive a big ol' honkin' truck like that. It wouldn't be that hard to get hold of one, if one wasn't already on hand.

Granny, I'm a five foot, 110 pound fart, and I drive a big ole honker. Nothing macho about me the last time I looked. I just like big ole trucks.

Tulessa · Dec 11, 2013

I just finished reading that topix thread on them. Talking about trippin. Those were some rude arse posters over there! I'll just stay in my little hollow, all by my lonesome.

OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

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