OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[ZooSleuth]

djcoma that is a good theory re: the voicemail name variations. I'm not inclined to believe the dog did the pressing though. imo if the button was pushed like that it was whoever did the family harm and maybe knew that was their truck but kept a distance until they felt comfortable approaching it. I might then attribute the odd incoming call from this persons own cell (a throw away perhaps) or them asking a friend via text on their own phone to call the blackberry?? (again maybe a throw away or imo we would have info on whose phone it was coming from)
imo if they were murdered, imo it had to be a localish person who either took them from truck site and waited to return to that site. Or killed them while they were walking (but that doesnt explain to me why their stuff was all in truck) after killing them in the woods searched for their vehicle knowing the family had to arrive in area driving one. Maybe it took days to locate it. Or maybe locals were talking about abandoned truck for a few days and perp learned its location that way.

I'm gonna backtrack on the perp having to be local. It could be someone they had known that knew exactly where they would be. Or even met them at their request (that we don't know about) who then had to leave the area after the murders to participate in their own lives as normal then returned to area and checked the truck/phone to see if anyone was looking for them. idk. I keep thinking if perp knew them, they would have searcued truck for cash.

BBM.

They'd have to turn the phone on in the first place for the incoming call to register, and then call it. Why would they call it if they knew where the phone was already? And why would they even care about the voicemail? IMO the incoming call was just somebody trying to get a hold of them and the call went through once the phone was turned back on.

If a dog was stuck in a truck cab for over a week, I would be more surprised if it didn't step on a phone that was left sitting on a seat or center console. That's a lot of time in a confined area when you think about it.

At this point we have no solid evidence there even was a perp, so IMO it was a dog dial until I hear some evidence otherwise. The dog dial theory doesn't rule out murder. It just rules out that a perp turned on the phone and made the VM calls.

 

[Soulmagent]

BBM.

They'd have to turn the phone on in the first place for the incoming call to register, and then call it. Why would they call it if they knew where the phone was already? And why would they even care about the voicemail? IMO the incoming call was just somebody trying to get a hold of them and the call went through once the phone was turned back on.

If a dog was stuck in a truck cab for over a week, I would be more surprised if it didn't step on a phone that was left sitting on a seat or center console. That's a lot of time in a confined area when you think about it.

At this point we have no solid evidence there even was a perp, so IMO it was a dog dial until I hear some evidence otherwise. The dog dial theory doesn't rule out murder. It just rules out that a perp turned on the phone and made the VM calls.

I think Blackberrys have to have the keypad unlocked before making a call.

From what I remember of the phone she had to hit the green line button plus the star key to unlock the screen to make a call.

 

[Soulmagent]

BBM.

They'd have to turn the phone on in the first place for the incoming call to register, and then call it. Why would they call it if they knew where the phone was already? And why would they even care about the voicemail? IMO the incoming call was just somebody trying to get a hold of them and the call went through once the phone was turned back on.

If a dog was stuck in a truck cab for over a week, I would be more surprised if it didn't step on a phone that was left sitting on a seat or center console. That's a lot of time in a confined area when you think about it.

At this point we have no solid evidence there even was a perp, so IMO it was a dog dial until I hear some evidence otherwise. The dog dial theory doesn't rule out murder. It just rules out that a perp turned on the phone and made the VM calls.

I think Blackberrys have to have the keypad unlocked before making a call.

From what I remember of the phone she had to hit the green line button plus the star key to unlock the screen to make a call. To power on you have to hold the button down until it powers up. It was not a one click kind phone . The dog would have has alot working for it to get the phone to do stuff just by stepping on it.

 

[Mapman]

I'd like to point out that the Blackberry's main power button is on the front of the phone, as opposed to being on the side. It's the red hang-up button. IMO the dog could easily step on that to turn the phone on. Like I said in a pervious post, when you turn on your phone a notification may pop up about new voicemails and one press on the trackball in the middle of the phone would probably dial it.

Would the phone have to be off, then turned on to trigger the notification. It seems to me that if an incoming call was not answered by the dog that it would automatically go to voicemail which would initiate the notification. I have probably missed something regarding the phone calls and VM access, but I don't yet understand why the scenario requires the phone to be turned off and on.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I think Blackberrys have to have the keypad unlocked before making a call.

From what I remember of the phone she had to hit the green line button plus the star key to unlock the screen to make a call. To power on you have to hold the button down until it powers up. It was not a one click kind phone . The dog would have has alot working for it to get the phone to do stuff just by stepping on it.

That depends on if they have keylock turned off or on. Cell phones 101.

Plus even if it was on, I've never seen a phone boot up and be keylocked right away before you can do anything.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Would the phone have to be off, then turned on to trigger the notification. It seems to me that if an incoming call was not answered by the dog that it would automatically go to voicemail which would initiate the notification. I have probably missed something regarding the phone calls and VM access, but I don't yet understand why the scenario requires the phone to be turned off and on.

You're correct, if the missed call happened and they left a voicemail it most certainly would have popped up a notification about the new voicemail. In fact that scenario is more likely because there was a missed call before the VM calls, right?

 

[Dallen]

I've also been bothered by the tire track next to the front driver's side tire of the truck. Because of the track's proximity to the truck tire it seems that it had to be placed there before the truck was placed in the position shown in the photo. The track also seems pretty well defined to have been through a 4” rain which suggests that it was placed there after the rain. It also seems strange that the track just stops near the truck tire which means that if it was left by another vehicle entering the location, the vehicle would have had to stop and back out over exactly the same track which seems unlikely. Also, there is a surprising amount of dirt/mud on the tread of the driver's side tire which suggests that the tire rolled through some mud after the 4” rain because so much mud remains on the tire. Furthermore, it appears that the truck is is not parallel to the road which seems odd because if Bobby was driving along the road and merely stopped, the truck would most likely have been fairly parallel to the road. Does anyone know for a fact that the truck was not moved between the time of its discovery and the taking of the photograph? Perhaps the track was made by the Jamison truck while being maneuvered forward and backward to get it out of the way. But how could the truck have been maneuvered unless LE had somehow obtained a key? Confusing.

While reading this, it just occurred to me that with 4" of rain, the mud on these tires would have been mostly cleared, with the exception of a little bit caked here and there. The tires look like they have been driven in fresh mud, then dried, but we know it did not rain in the area for DAYS prior to their visit on the mountain.

 

[Mapman]

You're correct, if the missed call happened and they left a voicemail it most certainly would have popped up a notification about the new voicemail. In fact that scenario is more likely because there was a missed call before the VM calls, right?

It would be very helpful if we knew the timing of all of the calls and the settings on the phone. We don't know if the Blackberry keyboard was locked, but It wouldn't surprise me if a trackball response by the dog to a notification would initiate a call to VM even if the keyboard was locked. I'm just not familiar with the Blackberry.

I respect everyone's opinion on this, but it just seems so much more likely to me that we have dog dialing rather than a murderer of three people obtaining the keys to the Jamison's truck from one of the bodies so he/she could return to the truck one or more times to mess with BJ's cell phone and look after a dog while not bothering to look through the vehicle well enough to find the 32k. I'm no profiler, but my guess is that very few mass murders would risk getting caught to help a dog.

 

[Dallen]

Even if they did move the truck the day they took the pictures, there isn't enough mud on the road to stick to the tires. 4" of rain=cleaner tires. Would it also wash the mud off of the doors? That rain storm is a big deal IMO. When was the earliest report of the truck on the mountain abandoned?

Exactly what I just posted about. In OK, we don't get 4" of drizzle, it's 4" of downpour, so it would be enough to clear the tires IMO.

 

[Mapman]

While reading this, it just occurred to me that with 4" of rain, the mud on these tires would have been mostly cleared, with the exception of a little bit caked here and there. The tires look like they have been driven in fresh mud, then dried, but we know it did not rain in the area for DAYS prior to their visit on the mountain.

I agree. That is why I thought that it might be possible that the mud got on the tire after the 4" rain due to the truck being moved by LE. I thought the 4" rain occurred after the Jamison's disappearance because I thought recent rains had turned the place into a mess during the search. I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the truck was there during the rain. If there was never any mud or rain between the 17th and when the truck was moved from the location I would have to consider other possibilities to explain the presence of the mud on the tire. Does anyone here know when the truck was moved from the location?

 

[Soulmagent]

I agree. That is why I thought that it might be possible that the mud got on the tire after the 4" rain due to the truck being moved by LE. I thought the 4" rain occurred after the Jamison's disappearance because I thought recent rains had turned the place into a mess during the search. I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the truck was there during the rain. If there was never any mud or rain between the 17th and when the truck was moved from the location I would have to consider other possibilities to explain the presence of the mud on the tire. Does anyone here know when the truck was moved from the location?

I did notice the mud spray on the truck is also on the truck in the disappeared footage. The tires appeared cleaner.

 

[Dallen]

I agree. That is why I thought that it might be possible that the mud got on the tire after the 4" rain due to the truck being moved by LE. I thought the 4" rain occurred after the Jamison's disappearance because I thought recent rains had turned the place into a mess during the search. I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the truck was there during the rain. If there was never any mud or rain between the 17th and when the truck was moved from the location I would have to consider other possibilities to explain the presence of the mud on the tire. Does anyone here know when the truck was moved from the location?

I guess we could use some clarification on that then, because that could tell us a lot. When the pic of the truck was taken? Had it been moved by LE before the pic was taken? I assumed the position and location of the truck in the pic was exactly as it was discovered by LE.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I respect everyone's opinion on this, but it just seems so much more likely to me that we have dog dialing rather than a murderer of three people obtaining the keys to the Jamison's truck from one of the bodies so he/she could return to the truck one or more times to mess with BJ's cell phone and look after a dog while not bothering to look through the vehicle well enough to find the 32k. I'm no profiler, but my guess is that very few mass murders would risk getting caught to help a dog.

Very well put. ITA.

 

[TooCurious]

Would the phone have to be off, then turned on to trigger the notification. It seems to me that if an incoming call was not answered by the dog that it would automatically go to voicemail which would initiate the notification. I have probably missed something regarding the phone calls and VM access, but I don't yet understand why the scenario requires the phone to be turned off and on.

The absence of any incoming phone calls the 9-12th suggests the phone was off IMO. Unless of course the full phone records have not been released. Then you have a short time span with 2 incoming calls and 2 outgoing calls and then nothing again.

 

[TooCurious]

Now that we are discussing the mud again, I really like this aspect of the case to prove time frame. Madyson's footprints, how would Madyson's footprints make it intact through the storm? They would need to have been made it mud prior to the storm and then dried out for them to stand a chance. Well, if she stepped in mud on the 8th around 2 pm, it would have only had a few hours of sun and wind to dry out before the rain hit that night. Follow? I don't think there is enough time for the mud to set up especially since there hadn't been any significant rain in the days prior and the spot had to be wet already for her to make tracks. In other words, if she made tracks in a wet area when there hadn't been any rain then there is no chance that same area dried out prior to the rain storm that happened that night. IMO, doesn't that place her there on the 9th?

 

[watcher9]

Didn't they make two trips up to the mountain?
The first on the 7th and then back home.
Then the next day back to the mountain again.
How long did it take them to make the trip?
What time did the rains start on the 8th?
Could it be that they decided because of the rain it would be easier to spend the night in the truck rather than make that trip home and back again? It would also give them an early start on the 9th? Why only Madyson's footprints on the road? Maybe they stayed in that clear plateau but as soon as they started down the road, they had to stop again for Madyson or the puppy to go to the bathroom? I don't know what happened then. Why not footprints for any adults?

 

[Mapman]

Now that we are discussing the mud again, I really like this aspect of the case to prove time frame. Madyson's footprints, how would Madyson's footprints make it intact through the storm? They would need to have been made it mud prior to the storm and then dried out for them to stand a chance. Well, if she stepped in mud on the 8th around 2 pm, it would have only had a few hours of sun and wind to dry out before the rain hit that night. Follow? I don't think there is enough time for the mud to set up especially since there hadn't been any significant rain in the days prior and the spot had to be wet already for her to make tracks. In other words, if she made tracks in a wet area when there hadn't been any rain then there is no chance that same area dried out prior to the rain storm that happened that night. IMO, doesn't that place her there on the 9th?

Where were the footprints? Have any pictures of them been made available?

 

[watcher9]

I've been looking for any articles about the footprints to no avail, but I did find two different pictures of the truck at the apparent site.

This article has the normal picture showing the other tire track-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rumors-witchcraft-drug-use.html#ixzz2l5aaTg00

This one shows the truck and what looks like a complete set of tracks going on by the truck while straddling the culvert. The tracks look close enough together to be a 4-wheeler. As a side note as this was discussed years ago, this article also mentions some of the contents of the truck. Maybe we can compare them to the contents of the glove box? If the keys were in the ignition, could they have been locked out of the truck?

Inside the locked, four-door pickup with the keys in the ignition they found Bobby Jamison’s wallet, his wife’s purse, a cell phone, a GPS unit, clothing and $32,000 stuffed in a bank bag beneath the driver’s seat. They also found Maizy, a family dog barely clinging to life.
http://newsok.com/eufaula-familys-fate-remains-mystery/article/3458228

 

[Mapman]

I've been looking for any articles about the footprints to no avail, but I did find two different pictures of the truck at the apparent site.

This article has the normal picture showing the other tire track-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rumors-witchcraft-drug-use.html#ixzz2l5aaTg00

This one shows the truck and what looks like a complete set of tracks going on by the truck while straddling the culvert. The tracks look close enough together to be a 4-wheeler. As a side note as this was discussed years ago, this article also mentions some of the contents of the truck. Maybe we can compare them to the contents of the glove box? If the keys were in the ignition, could they have been locked out of the truck?

Inside the locked, four-door pickup with the keys in the ignition they found Bobby Jamison’s wallet, his wife’s purse, a cell phone, a GPS unit, clothing and $32,000 stuffed in a bank bag beneath the driver’s seat. They also found Maizy, a family dog barely clinging to life.
http://newsok.com/eufaula-familys-fate-remains-mystery/article/3458228

Very interesting. For some reason I thought there were no keys in the truck. This could explain how LE could have maneuvered the truck prior to its removal from the location in addition to making it more likely that dog dialing was responsible for the mystery calls rather than some person accessing the interior of the truck. It could also provide a reason why the Jamisons left the truck along with a reason for leaving so many items in the truck. Perhaps they stopped as they were leaving the location to relieve themselves before the drive home but locked themselves out. If this is what happened, it seems like they would have walked south to the homes nearest to the truck to obtain assistance rather than north where there were fewer homes.

Am I the only person here who didn't know about the keys being locked in the truck? If this article is accurate, I'll have to adjust some of my theories.

 

[Blessed2Bme]

I've been looking for any articles about the footprints to no avail, but I did find two different pictures of the truck at the apparent site.

This article has the normal picture showing the other tire track-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rumors-witchcraft-drug-use.html#ixzz2l5aaTg00

This one shows the truck and what looks like a complete set of tracks going on by the truck while straddling the culvert. The tracks look close enough together to be a 4-wheeler. As a side note as this was discussed years ago, this article also mentions some of the contents of the truck. Maybe we can compare them to the contents of the glove box? If the keys were in the ignition, could they have been locked out of the truck?

Inside the locked, four-door pickup with the keys in the ignition they found Bobby Jamison’s wallet, his wife’s purse, a cell phone, a GPS unit, clothing and $32,000 stuffed in a bank bag beneath the driver’s seat. They also found Maizy, a family dog barely clinging to life.
http://newsok.com/eufaula-familys-fate-remains-mystery/article/3458228

Thank you Watcher 9 for posting the above 2nd article because it answers 2 questions I've been harping over.


1. Keys in the ignition upon police arrival. Very important detail

Many of us here were wondering if they could have been in Bobby's
pocket or just plain missing.


2. The Jamisons were last seen alive Oct. 9 by a local man as the family was looking for a plot of land for sale. (per 2nd article)

So they were alive after the rainstorm in order for the mud prints to set in.

Mapman I was in the dark about the keys this whole time too, if like you say, the article is accurate.

I can totally see them being locked out as well.