OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

An excellent post:

Snipped

Topographical views based on GPS coordinates. This is not exact, as it puts Point B on a road a little bit to the south-southwest of where the truck was found, but gives a sense of the terrain between the two areas:

I would take it that there was a watercourse of some type in the valley that went up to the site where the bodies were found.

What strikes me is that there's really no smooth downward slope from the crest of the hill to Point A. Lots of ups and downs. It's always easier walking downhill than up, but it would only have been short hike up to the crest of the hill from where the truck was parked. I can tell you from experience that it can be dark as night in the middle of the day during a thunderstorm, so if the family was out walking while the day was still warm, then bad weather moved in, visibility was poor, trying to move back downhill toward the truck but in the wrong direction, cold, wet, huddled together for warmth, unable to light a fire in the pouring rain, yeah, I could see it. They may not have survived that first night.

I have mercifully never been in that situation.

What I would be thinking is that they might have tried to follow the floor of the valley. Either they were afraid to go down the valley, or the went in the wrong direction.

If there is a watercourse at the bottom of the valley, it would have flooded with the rainfall that night. That could have accounted for them being at a higher area. It was overcast, so following the stars would have been difficult.

Just spitballing here.

 

[OkieGranny]

Originally Posted by Love Coco
It seems far too much of a coincidence for both the McStays and the Jamisons to be found in the same week. So strange! I'm in shock, I think.

This was my exact thought when I came to post this morning. I worked on both cases in the early couple of years. Now, both families are found.

I consider it to be a blessing, for their families, for law enforcement and
for all of us at Websleuths.

This has been quite the year for astonishing discoveries. In September, the locations of eight people missing for more than 40 years were found within a week or so of each other. Six were in two cars in Foss Lake in Oklahoma, and two in a car in Brule Creek in South Dakota. What are the odds of that?

 

[los2188]

As I'm reading posts here, I'm also watching Disappeared about Mitrice Richardson, and funny enough, the LE spokesman just stated that her body was found up on a ridge that she apparently hiked and when she was found. She had no clothes on. She too was said by more than a few people to be acting strangely. Apparently she was saying things like, “It’s subliminal,” and muttered about avenging the death of Michael Jackson. She told the restaurant manager that she was from Mars and remarked about settling her debt with sex. With all the strange behavior, she wasn't held for a 72-hour psychological evaluation. She was spotted sitting in the yard of a complete stranger. After her body was found naked, it was said that animals more than likely removed her clothing in the months while she lay there. So to me, that would explain why there would be a lack of clothing near her body. Apparently in her car, small empty bottles of alcohol were found along with remnants of weed. Obviously this too, can impair one's judgement. The last thing that I read was this..To rule causes of death out, you first have to rule everything in. I can't say where I'm going with this, but I just found it to be interesting to the Jamison case. What in the world is BBM???

 

[Trackergd]

http://newsok.com/gallery/articleid/3458229/pictures?display=nextgen

These are photos from early in the investigation of the family's disappearance. Can anyone tell what's in the plastic baggy on the truck seat?

Bank bill wrappers.

 

[OkieGranny]

What I would be thinking is that they might have tried to follow the floor of the valley. Either they were afraid to go down the valley, or the went in the wrong direction.

If there is a watercourse at the bottom of the valley, it would have flooded with the rainfall that night. That could have accounted for them being at a higher area. It was overcast, so following the stars would have been difficult.

Just spitballing here.

Please forgive me for misleading you. I should've added a marker to show the exact location of the GPS coordinates. Failure to do so was sloppy work on my part. Point A as seen in the prior maps marks the nearest road. In this image, Point A still marks the nearest road and the green arrow is the location of the remains according to the GPS coordinates:

 

[stillwatersc]

When/where was that picture of Madyson taken? She isn't wearing or holding a coat in that.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This has been quite the year for astonishing discoveries. In September, the locations of eight people missing for more than 40 years were found within a week or so of each other. Six were in two cars in Foss Lake in Oklahoma, and two in a car in Brule Creek in South Dakota. What are the odds of that?

There can be several factors.

1. Development. The places where they disappeared have become more populated.

2. Weather patterns are different. Droughts lower water levels.

3. There have been technological changes. In 1994, we didn't have the Internet as a resource.

4. We are more connected. I read about this case on a blog. We see it more.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Please forgive me for misleading you. I should've added a marker to show the exact location of the GPS coordinates. Failure to do so was sloppy work on my part. Point A as seen in the prior maps marks the nearest road. In this image, Point A still marks the nearest road and the green arrow is the location of the remains according to the GPS coordinates:

Actually, you answered my question.

They could have followed that creek. Either they go confused and went in the wrong direction or there something or someone between them and the truck they didn't want to encounter.

Mountain Fork is crossed by a road. Would that road lead back to the location of the truck?

 

[dranders4]

In reading all the information that I can find on this case, I believe this is a simple case of getting lost. Granted the background of mental stability and other issues certainly come into play, but I feel this is an example of over-confidence and bad-timing.

The family looked at property the day before and came to this new area in search of a second option to buy or to gain a perspective for the first property. Several phone calls were made to find the second property and upon arriving it seems to me that the simple intention was to scout the location. Leaving the phones, GPS and the puppy in the truck all seem reasonable if the intention was to take a quick tour of the second location.

As others have noted, given the warm weather during the day ( photo of Madyson in short sleeve shirt in the sunshine ), coats were left in the truck. I can imagine the cell phone battery is low from calls and constant 'pinging' off distant ( unreachable ? ) towers and it is taken back to the truck.

Despite Bobby's bad back, the family is excited of the prospect for a fresh start and off they go into the wilds. Getting dis-oriented, hurt then wet from rain and cold all are very probable. For one of the adults to leave the other with the child may seem like a rational option but if the only result was not finding the truck, they could of came back to the comfort of the family.

Questions will remain for all of us; finding shelter, starting a fire, having a handgun ..etc. What really happened during the days to follow leaving the truck will likely never be answered.

 

[wfgodot]

Welcome to WS dranders4. Very good first post.

 

[OkieGranny]

Actually, you answered my question.

They could have followed that creek. Either they go confused and went in the wrong direction or there something or someone between them and the truck they didn't want to encounter.

Mountain Fork is crossed by a road. Would that road lead back to the location of the truck?

Yes, it does. The truck is just over 5 miles down that road.

If the GPS for the location of the remains is correct, it looks like they were found at the base of a very steep slope. Perhaps the family huddled together there as shelter from a thunderstorm?

Looking at the satellite view, there are three tributaries of Mountain Fork that would have to be crossed and then a pretty good hike to reach the road at Point A:

To the east, they were very near a dirt road that crosses Mountain Fork and leads to other dirt roads on the other side. With better weather, they might have reached safety if they'd headed in that direction:

 

[Pensfan]

Bobby was a smoker...There was a partial carton of smokes on the dash in the truck. I would think they could have started a fire for warmth, presumably if he still had lighter fluid.

Thank you for that info! I tried to find the old post which showed the inside of their truck last, but gave up after looking for 30 minutes. They also could have made a smokey fire as a signal if they were lost and wanted to be found.

 

[Pensfan]

In reading all the information that I can find on this case, I believe this is a simple case of getting lost. Granted the background of mental stability and other issues certainly come into play, but I feel this is an example of over-confidence and bad-timing.

The family looked at property the day before and came to this new area in search of a second option to buy or to gain a perspective for the first property. Several phone calls were made to find the second property and upon arriving it seems to me that the simple intention was to scout the location. Leaving the phones, GPS and the puppy in the truck all seem reasonable if the intention was to take a quick tour of the second location.

As others have noted, given the warm weather during the day ( photo of Madyson in short sleeve shirt in the sunshine ), coats were left in the truck. I can imagine the cell phone battery is low from calls and constant 'pinging' off distant ( unreachable ? ) towers and it is taken back to the truck.

Despite Bobby's bad back, the family is excited of the prospect for a fresh start and off they go into the wilds. Getting dis-oriented, hurt then wet from rain and cold all are very probable. For one of the adults to leave the other with the child may seem like a rational option but if the only result was not finding the truck, they could of came back to the comfort of the family.

Questions will remain for all of us; finding shelter, starting a fire, having a handgun ..etc. What really happened during the days to follow leaving the truck will likely never be answered.

BBM
I'm respectfully adding: Sherilyn taking her 11 page "hate" letter to Bobby on their road trip and the fact that the pistol registered to her is missing.

To answer a question from above:
BBM= bolded by me

 

[Pensfan]

Respectfully snipped



The temperature decline was about 20 degrees (82 to 61) from about 7PM-Midnight on 10/8/09. From the conditions, consistent wind, heavy rain, it would be unlikely they went out in that without warm clothing.




If there were no weapons, we can rule out hunting. Same with fishing if there were no poles missing. Spotting is possible. I grew up in a hunting area in west central PA. Hunters would go out weeks before the start of the season and try to "spot" deer; they'd see the number and what their patterns of movement would be. If the Jamisons were hunters, that would be a possibility.

I could see a situation where they were out of their vehicle and some, potentially dangerous wildlife got between them and the vehicle. The moved in the other direction, and got lost. I don't know what the fauna is like, but a bear, big cat, boar, or even a skunk, could have caused then to move away from the vehicle.

bbm
Dangerous wildlife could also be "spirits" to those that are paranoid and delusional (Bobby and Sherilyn). They could have wandered or ran from their truck believing they were being followed/chased by the same unseen "spirits" they believed were at their home.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[HauntsForHope]

To the east, they were very near a dirt road that leads to a bridge crossing Mountain Fork. It becomes a paved road leading to other paved roads on the other side.

If they were abducted from their truck, they could have been taken to this location via the dirt road the hunters used when they found them.
:twocents:

 

[Pensfan]

Can someone please link where it says LE said no foul play? Because in this article LE says

http://www.koco.com/news/oklahomane...23040912/-/3ne107z/-/index.html#ixzz2lAGKebjY


The ONLY reference to no foul play that I could find from LE was in reference to them missing. The article stated LE didn't think foul play was involved in their disappearance, but I've found nothing that says anything about cause of death not being foul play.

bbm
A LE officer was quoted in one of the earliest articles as saying that it appeared no foul play was involved. This article can be found on the previous thread on Monday when the Jamisons' bodies were first discovered.

As we have discovered (see numerous cited articles from Monday's and Tuesday's discussion), LE uses the words "no foul play" in murder-suicides when there is no evidence to show that a third party was involved.

Murder-suicide is foul. I don't agree with their choice of words.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

bbm
Dangerous wildlife could also be "spirits" to those that are paranoid and delusional (Bobby and Sherilyn). They could have wandered or ran from their truck believing they were being followed/chased by the same unseen "spirits" they believed were at their home.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

I really didn't want to put up that possibility, but it would be possible.

I was wondering about some level of intoxication as well. Just enough to let them make a few wrong turns on the trail.

 

[Pensfan]

I really didn't want to put up that possibility, but it would be possible.

I was wondering about some level of intoxication as well. Just enough to let them make a few wrong turns on the trail.

Here is a link where one can see the severity of some untreated bipolar individuals' delusions and hallucinations:
http://bipolar.about.com/u/ua/psychoticfeatures/ua_delusions.02.htm

 

[mck16]

Since both the adults were disabled (bad backs), it makes no sense to me that they would even be walking. Why didn't they take the truck at least as far as they could and then walk if they wanted to. Did the truck have gas in it? Did it run?

I just don't think that the elements had anything to do with it. All 3 would not just lie down and die. jmo

 

[Jdee]

The other thing that bugs me is the dog. They cared enough to bring the dog along. That speaks volumes to me. And leaving it in the truck speaks even more. They cared enough about it not to let it out to run around in the woods and maybe get lost.. etc. So they left it in the safety of the truck. That tells me they were planning on coming back. I don't think this was murder/suicide. Of course it could have been spontaneous murder/suicide. But I highly doubt that. They seemed to be planners with their habits. So if they were planning something grim.. I think they would have just left the dog home and not bothered to bring it along.