OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

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IMO it is very unlikely that Bobby was on meth. Bobby had a disabling car wreck which would cause chronic pain. He likely needed pain management (pain pills). If he developed an addiction, it would have been to opioids. Numerous studies have shown that 15%-30% of chronic pain patients will become opioid dependent. People who are opioid dependent do not switch to psychostimulants. Psychostimulants will not provide them with the same feeling of opioid euphoria. (Yes, there will always be someone who is an exception, but this person is a rare example.)
 
The other thing that bugs me is the dog. They cared enough to bring the dog along. That speaks volumes to me. And leaving it in the truck speaks even more. They cared enough about it not to let it out to run around in the woods and maybe get lost.. etc. So they left it in the safety of the truck. That tells me they were planning on coming back. I don't think this was murder/suicide. Of course it could have been spontaneous murder/suicide. But I highly doubt that. They seemed to be planners with their habits. So if they were planning something grim.. I think they would have just left the dog home and not bothered to bring it along.
It's sadly possible that only one of the couple was planning something grim and the other thought he/she was going on a road trip.
 
In reading all the information that I can find on this case, I believe this is a simple case of getting lost. Granted the background of mental stability and other issues certainly come into play, but I feel this is an example of over-confidence and bad-timing.

The family looked at property the day before and came to this new area in search of a second option to buy or to gain a perspective for the first property. Several phone calls were made to find the second property and upon arriving it seems to me that the simple intention was to scout the location. Leaving the phones, GPS and the puppy in the truck all seem reasonable if the intention was to take a quick tour of the second location.

As others have noted, given the warm weather during the day ( photo of Madyson in short sleeve shirt in the sunshine ), coats were left in the truck. I can imagine the cell phone battery is low from calls and constant 'pinging' off distant ( unreachable ? ) towers and it is taken back to the truck.

Despite Bobby's bad back, the family is excited of the prospect for a fresh start and off they go into the wilds. Getting dis-oriented, hurt then wet from rain and cold all are very probable. For one of the adults to leave the other with the child may seem like a rational option but if the only result was not finding the truck, they could of came back to the comfort of the family.

Questions will remain for all of us; finding shelter, starting a fire, having a handgun ..etc. What really happened during the days to follow leaving the truck will likely never be answered.

Welcome to Websleuths, dranders. Good post.

Considering the distance and environment between the truck and the remains location, getting lost makes sense. They were completely unprepared for remaining out in that environment. Hypothermia, lack of water, environmental dangers such as wildlife, snakes, etc.

Very sad to think about, particularly with a child involved. May they rest in peace.
 
Since both the adults were disabled (bad backs), it makes no sense to me that they would even be walking. Why didn't they take the truck at least as far as they could and then walk if they wanted to. Did the truck have gas in it? Did it run?

I just don't think that the elements had anything to do with it. All 3 would not just lie down and die. jmo


As someone with a bad back, it would be possible. While it would take me a bit, I could walk and then rest, walk some more, then rest, et c. I cannot walk, solidly, for five miles, but if I could lay down, even for 15-30 minutes, I might be able to make it.
 
Were the remains all found together? Would the elements take them all at the same time? I don't know a lot about dieing from the elements but wouldn't you think they would all go at different times? ...
 
Were the remains all found together? Would the elements take them all at the same time? I don't know a lot about dieing from the elements but wouldn't you think they would all go at different times? ...

I assume the remains were either found together or in the same general vicinity, but we haven't been given those details by LE, I don't think. It would not be unusual, if they were all out traveling together at the same time, for them to lie down together for the night, for example, all overcome by exhaustion and cold, and die overnight from hypothermia. Or, say one or two died overnight and the other(s) were severely weakened, but held on a bit longer, but didn't leave the area because they either were too weak, or just not thinking clearly. Hypothermia really messes with your head. Strangely, a lot of people suffering from hypothermia will actually take OFF their clothes.
 
So - three people died here. Am wondering how they managed to get a possibly tired child to the location given their apparent physical challenges.
 
So - three people died here. Am wondering how they managed to get a possibly tired child to the location given their apparent physical challenges.

Resting along the way. They didn't take their coats, which they wouldn't need for a long walk with temperatures in the high 70's, low 80's.
 
As someone with a bad back, it would be possible. While it would take me a bit, I could walk and then rest, walk some more, then rest, et c. I cannot walk, solidly, for five miles, but if I could lay down, even for 15-30 minutes, I might be able to make it.

I am sure you could, but my point was why would you when you have transportation. jmo
 
I guess my Aunt is a rare example... not surprising.
She had debilitating headaches and other pain (nerve issues.)

While she did USE painkillers she was never very fond of them and they made her sick.
She would have been considered a chronic painkiller user...
but rarely even took what was prescribed, much less more than prescribed.
She never became addicted because they made her so sick.

She didn't even like weed, said it made her sick. She became quite fond of meth however. :(

IMO it is very unlikely that Bobby was on meth. Bobby had a disabling car wreck which would cause chronic pain. He likely needed pain management (pain pills). If he developed an addiction, it would have been to opioids. Numerous studies have shown that 15%-30% of chronic pain patients will become opioid dependent. People who are opioid dependent do not switch to psychostimulants. Psychostimulants will not provide them with the same feeling of opioid euphoria. (Yes, there will always be someone who is an exception, but this person is a rare example.)
 
I am sure you could, but my point was why would you when you have transportation. jmo

I often do. If it was an attempt at exercise or just some recreation, that would be a reason. If the purpose was to go out in the woods, "spot" game, look at property, a walk in the woods, this would be an explanation.
 
I have been following the Jamison's since the beginning, but admittedly not posted much. I had a map that vanished, along with some others, including Kyron's, that I have had to recreate. I am finally caught up. from rereading all 11 threads.

mtrooper, you have been amazing on this case! Can you please assist in my understanding of how you came up with the location of the remains? Most articles that I have seen said that the remains were found approximately 2.7 miles NorthWest of the location of the truck. These coordinates are almost exactly North of the truck.

I had also read somewhere that the remains were found at a campsite. Does anyone know if this is true? I did find a campsite that is approximately 2.7 miles NorthWest of the location of the truck, which I was thinking could be where they were found.

Here is the map that I had put together... https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...&ll=35.026201,-95.208378&spn=0.093199,0.15707

I do not have the actual coords, that was my best estimate. I have not heard anything about a campsite. I do believe that there is a cabin not too far from the location, not sure if maybe that is what you had heard. My understanding is that it was more north than north west, that's why I mention the mile radius. Thank you...I have to be honest of all the cases I have been out on this one was towards the top of the short list for wanting to close.
 
I've gotten lost in the woods before. It's a very scary feeling!! It got dark, and if it hadn't been for my husband that could hear me yelling for help, I don't know what I would have done. Panic attack hit, and I heard someone fire a gun, and I was scared to death! Plus even birds moving in the leaves sounds like a bear if after you. By the time I found a fence and started following it, I was crying. I'm disabled, walking is difficult, but the adrenaline of being in those darn woods was enough to keep me going. I got into my husbands arms and literally collapse, legs turned to jelly and I couldn't stand.

I realize the Jamison's didn't have fibromyalgia. Thus they might not have experienced the collapse after an adrenaline rush like fibromites might have. But the fear of not knowing how to get out of the woods, easily getting turned around, etc. I can see happening!

The 'dog' was actually still a puppy. Maybe it got tired at the first stop, so they left it in the vehicle because they meant to return shortly. Maizy was a 'foo foo' dog as my husband would say. Not a hunting dog.

The quote I made a few posts ago wasn't from me, it was from someone else, but I don't know how to bring quotes from previous pages, so I linked to the post. Main point was to show what the weather was reported as being at that time when their disappearance was actively being investigated.

As for the kid being tired. Perhaps and maybe not. Most kids are full of energy. You though in a new adventure, going out into the woods, and the energy spikes. I know they can tire me out quicker than I can tire them out. LOL!

I've still haven't found any evidence that either used any illegal drugs. There was prescription drug bottle/s found in the truck. Not uncommon with chronic pain patients. I truly believe their actions were more mental than physical disabilities. I do not believe drugs were involved in the illegal sense.

Back of my mind still wonders about the legal issues Bobby was dealing with, and if that played any part in the hallucinations, and their disappearance/deaths. Protection order against your own father would be a rough road to travel. Trying to sue to get back money you feel would be rightfully yours would be difficult. And she was dealing with the death of her sister from an allergic reaction to a bee sting, which cause her tongue to swell. Lots of events around their life that would have brought on depression easily. Not sure of percentages, but depression also follows chronic pain patients. :( Not fun as the cycle begins... depression brings more pain, with brings more use of meds, which increases the depression, etc... I live that part daily, though refuse narcotics for now because I don't want the addiction.

Anyway.... I'm glad their family knows they didn't up and leave them. Some sense of knowing has to be better than not knowing anything. I don't know what else either family could have done to find them, but never got the sense that it was much effort. They were gone. Maybe members figured they weren't alive, I don't know.

Since Madyson was suppose to get her grandfather's estate, wonder who it goes to now? The person that was the executor of the estate? Or divide among the remaining survivors? Her Mom, and his Mom? I don't know how that works.
 
IMO they did not walk to that location. The terrain is far too rugged.
 
In general, I have an Occam's Razor point of view, in that the simplest answer is usually the correct answer. Up to this point, I've focused only on the possibility that the Jamisons became lost in the woods and perished from the elements. The authorities report that no foul play seems apparent, so this leads me to believe there are no bullet holes or stab marks evident in the remains, no broken hyoids, no bindings, blindfolds, or gags, and no weapon found at the scene.

Of course, there are other possibilities; murder-suicide being one, and a double-suicide pact with the murder of Madyson being another. But, even considering that the two adults may have been in a deranged state of mind, I can't think of any probable scenario in which the Jamisons became wound up that far from their truck without some outside party being involved. The three of them would've had to hike for miles, up a mountain and down the other side, before the deed was done. If they were trying to escape from immediate danger, yes, I could see that. But just to find a hidden place to do away themselves? Not really. There would have been dozens of good hiding places much closer, places where they probably never would have been found. It just doesn't compute. If you believe otherwise, then lay out a likely scenario for me and maybe I'll change my mind.

Now, if we consider the possibility of murder by an outside party, then I can think of a few scenarios in which this might happen. Perhaps the family stumbled across a pot farm or a meth operation. Either seems feasible within the remote geography of Panola Mountain. The cult theory put forth by Sherilyn's mother is way too far-fetched, so I'm tossing that one. What other reasons would cause someone to eliminate an entire family? Did they have the rotten luck of crossing paths with a homicidal maniac like Israel Keyes? Maybe it was someone the Jamisons knew, someone with a grudge against them. Too many possibilities to choose from without further info.

Anyway, if the Jamisons were killed by an outside party, I see two possibilities:

1. They were confronted and killed where they were found and their truck was driven to the other side of the mountain to divert LE away from the actual location of the bodies.

2. They were taken from where their truck was parked and driven to the spot where they were found.

I can think of a number of variations within these two possibilities but, at the moment, I'm focused on the roads that might have been traveled between the truck and the location of the remains, assuming the Jamisons were murdered by someone they encountered on the mountain.

I just spent a couple of hours tracing several possible routes from one point to the other on Google Earth (I'm a map freak, what can I say?). This required zooming in very closely and what I saw was that most of these roads barely qualify as roads. Some only occasionally discernible, others deeply rutted, all of them poorly maintained, if at all. Any of these roads would be a wild ride under the best of circumstances and, if it's been raining, forget about it. Also, these routes cross several creeks and there are no bridges on any of them. None. You simply drive through the water to the other side, apparently. No way would I ever attempt to negotiate any of them in my little Honda. No way.

What this tells me is 1) you'd need a heavy-duty truck to travel these roads, preferably with four-wheel drive, and 2) whoever drives these roads must know the area intimately or have a very good map or GPS system, because there are numerous crossroads, switchbacks, turnoffs that lead nowhere, and places where the road seems to peter out entirely, only to become visibly a road again a quarter-mile further on. To me, this makes a wandering serial killer seem more unlikely. Maybe one native to the area, but an outsider would've had a tough time finding his way around this mountain without lots and lots of cussing and backtracking.

Okay, here's your visual aids. The first is the dirt road leading away from the location of the remains where it cross Mountain Fork:

c4213d05-2d46-4701-9bba-21071822a446_zpsd1368f8a.jpg


See? No bridge. The second one shows three possible routes around the mountain. The one in red seems to be the best bet:

Screenshot2013-11-20at43134PM_zpsbe104316.png
 
Since Madyson was suppose to get her grandfather's estate, wonder who it goes to now? The person that was the executor of the estate? Or divide among the remaining survivors? Her Mom, and his Mom? I don't know how that works.
snip

"Cui bono?" questions are always good, and sometimes very relevant.
 
For those unfamiliar with this area of Oklahoma, the elevation of the Sans Bois Mountains is only 1500 feet. Compare this to the elevation of Eufaula, Ok which is approx. 600 feet and the Rocky Mountains which are >14,000 feet. The Sans Bois Mountains are actually not mountains, but rather hills.

Sans Bois is French and means without forest. This area doesn't have densely growing trees. It isn't treacherous terrain, but there are rattlesnakes. It is rare to see a mountain lion.
http://www.mountainzone.com/mountains/detail.asp?fid=1871956

92XL_05.jpg
 
I have seen two maps to the location, both different. Do we have a definite location?

Hollye's map shows the site within about 300 feet of some type of complex. I thought it might be a sewage treatment plant, but it is not. There is either a satellite disk, a big one, or a water tower on the roof of the building.
 
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