OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[Pensfan]

To say that the Oklahoma Office of the Medical Examiner is "storied" is to say that, over the years, little of the news has been good.

A few recent links:

Deteriorating Oklahoma Medical Examiner facility leaves more than 1,000 families waiting for answers. (kjrh.com, 15 October 2013)

Medical Examiner’s office has backlog of more than 1,300 cases. (kfor.com, 29 July 2013)

Joe Scarborough Slams Oklahoma Medical Examiner: ‘They Need Some Calculators’. (mediaite.com, 22 May 2013)

Doctor, two supervisors fired from Oklahoma medical examiner's office. (Daily Oklahoman, 22 July 2012)

There are other discouraging words but these are within the last 16 months.

The ME's office is backed up with hundreds with 100s of bodies and a thousand cases have't been given a final diagnosis. It might take forever to hear anything about the Jamisons.

 

[OkieGranny]

I don't know. but I will find it.

ETA

I will have to locate it tomorrow.

I think I found the only plus side to windows 8 it seems to bring google earth into better focus.

Oh, come on! That is so not fair!

 

[Love Coco]

What my problem is with that though, did Sherilyn see the spirits too? Surely they don't hallucinate the same thing

I'm sure it's already been mentioned somewhere, but there is the condition, Folie à deux, a shared psychosis between two people.

Folie Ã* deux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hatfield]

Although we do not have a COD or methods of death yet, one of the things which I go back to is that a child will succumb to dehydration, hunger, extreme temperatures and other stressors quicker than a healthy adult will. ( I do not know if the Jamison adults could be classified as " healthy" but they were ambulatory on the mountains).

I do not have links to back up my knowledge base of Pediatrics, but I do absolutely know that all things being equal, a 6 yr. old child would have been the first to become dangerously dehydrated and hungry, and IF their deaths were from natural causes, then I can see why the adult Jamisons who might also be having physical and emotional stressors, would stay with Madyson.

I can look for links if needed. Children also succumb to burns, CO poisoning and smoke inhalation faster than adults.

The case is very sad to me because it was preventable for a very long time. IF they had received support in the form of good mental health care, including a mental health professional who stressed adherence to medications for Bi- Polar disorder and monitored Sherilyn's compliance, possibly drug treatment for one or both parents, a therapist for Madyson, and financial counseling, they could have gotten their lives back on track and they would not have needed to consider living in the middle of nowhere in a shipping container in the first place.
I don't think the little girl's smile looks natural in the video, either, as the grandmother said, but I didn't know her.

This is the only case I've ever known of where a LE officer comes out and says " They were meth. users" without arrest records and convictions, if the cases had progressed to trials, to back up the assertions. I think this is the main reason their case has not attracted more MSM attention. Considering what the sheriff put out there about them, it might be just as well that it is not receiving extensive coverage.
And I thought Texas had some dumb sheriff departments!

I worry about how the child being present may have affected their decisions and their speed of travel. They no doubt were not moving fast with the child and could not cover ground quickly.
Especially if they did get lost and the child started to suffer and complain of being hungry and got very scared at nightfall.

If they did end up getting lost, there is no doubt that they would not want to leave the child. But you would think one of them would eventually try to go for help while one of them stayed with the child, but here is the thing with that, if they were panicking and scared, then maybe the mother would not let the father leave them.
They may have made the mistake of thinking someone would find them if they just stayed put. And by the time they decided they need to try to walk out, they may have all been too weak to do it.

Ive watched a lot of survival type shows and depending on your situation, it is not always the best advice to stay put and wait on rescue. Most all the shows indicate that you have to weigh your unique situation and only if you feel that help will be coming should you stay put. And only if you have enough water or find water to stay put. If you have water, then you can do without food for many days.

Its a tough decision and its a gamble of course. The other thing that makes being lost really bad is nightfall. Being lost in the woods all night long is very scary even for outdoorsman if they had no way to build a fire. It is the sounds of the animals at night that gets to you. They get real close and they make scary noises. Most are not harmful, but your mind goes crazy as the sounds get real close.

The bottom line is I am needing to know whether a gun was found with them to help decide what I think happened. But here is the thing. Only if a gun is NOT found with them would I be sure fould play is involved. Because if a gun was found with them, I am afraid they could have used it after being lost for X number of nights and did not want to suffer another night.

Like someone said, whether it was lost, purposeful suicide, suicide after being lost for X days, or foul play, all of these are really horrible ways to have it all end. Its all so tragic. We need to know what exactly was found with them to help understand what happened.

 

[little726]

Thank's Hatfield and all who have recounted their stories of becoming lost in wooded areas! I would like to ask all here their opinions on the Jamison's perhaps getting lost. Given what has been reported about the Jamison's, if they had gotten lost and disoriented in the woods, is it likely they would have died close to one another, or would they have gotten seperated? While I'm beginning to consider them getting lost and dying from the elements, I'm still leaning toward foul play in this case. Any opinions regarding the Jamison's getting lost, and how they may have reacted if faced with this will be helpful to me in considering various scenarios.

However way the Jamison's met their end, I can't imagine which scenario is worse. Both are horrifying. While I certainly hope they weren't murdered, wandering lost, cold and disoriented for who knows how long, and in what condition each were in, isn't much better. Poor Madyson!

RIP Jamison family.

I, for one, don't believe they just got lost in the woods! I think someone told them they could get rid of their "spirtits" for them, for a price (money.)

It will be interesting to see just what was found with their remains!

 

[watcher9]

I, for one, don't believe they just got lost in the woods! I think someone told them they could get rid of their "spirtits" for them, for a price (money.)

It will be interesting to see just what was found with their remains!

Positions of the remains may also be important.

Speaking of money, I seem to remember at one time there was $60,000 cash involved and it was split with half under the truck seat and the other half in a briefcase which was missing. Does anyone remember something like that?

 

[Hatfield]

Positions of the remains may also be important.

Speaking of money, I seem to remember at one time there was $60,000 cash involved and it was split with half under the truck seat and the other half in a briefcase which was missing. Does anyone remember something like that?

Ill have to defer to others as I am not sure.

Not totally sure, but I think I recall reading that the video at the home showed him going in and out of the house with a satchel and I dont think the satchel was ever found with the vehicle. If I remembered this correctly and somebody stole a satchel of money from them , they would have not realized there was even more money in the truck. I could see them thinking they got all there was to get and leading them to their demise.

If something like this happened, then whoever it was sure was ruthless to harm that child along with the adults. And leaving the dog to suffer too.
Its a pretty ruthless person if they were robbed and killed. I think that is why I have so much trouble believing someone killed the whole family like that.

But it does happen. The McStays is a good example. Even in OK fairly recently 4 women were killed for relatively small amounts of drugs. They ended up arresting 2 brothers (not related to the women) that were in the same apartment complex and knew about drugs being there. Totally ruthless and no value on life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/4-tulsa-women-killed-apartment-gunshot_n_2502159.html

.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Should we be able to see the bodies on google earth?
I believe I spotted white sneakers.

I was using a pc with windows 8 and thought I saw what looked like shoes. I enlarged it and then took a photo with a galaxy 3 and I just wondering if what I saw or see is correct.

Has anyone else thought they have seen this?

It's entirely possible if the images were taken at the right time and the bodies were in the open. I read earlier this week about a father who is appealing to google to update an image as the one they currently have shows his murdered son.

Unfortunately your picture is too small for me to see where it is on the linked map!

 

[wfgodot]

I wish Google Earth could show scenes from the past and wonder also What Maisie Knew.

This preacher story - would love to see that play out. Were they having fun with him in an addled, meth-like way? Sherilyn's friend suggested as much. True, she thought, too, that Madyson was still alive - one cannot fault those who hold out hope, particularly for a child - and denies the meth allegations about her friends entirely. But I wonder. Is emphasis on this wrong emphasis?

And as mtrooper - the truly invaluable mtrooper - has said, the keys weren't locked in the truck though the truck was locked. What did Maisie see? Three people on their own, moving into the mid-distance and - gone? Or the sudden blocked access of a vehicle pulled up, the sounding of brakes, the glint of a gun. Either - disappearing into the dimming light of an Oklahoma October.

This case, this case. I've only of all the many on WS that I've read, dreamed of two. This one is one of course; this one.

 

[little726]

I wish Google Earth could show scenes from the past and wonder also What Maisie Knew.

This preacher story - would love to see that play out. Were they having fun with him in an addled, meth-like way? Sherilyn's friend suggested as much. True, she thought, too, that Madyson was still alive - one cannot fault those who hold out hope, particularly for a child - and denies the meth allegations about her friends entirely. But I wonder. Is emphasis on this wrong emphasis?

And as mtrooper - the truly invaluable mtrooper - has said, the keys weren't locked in the truck though the truck was locked. What did Maisie see? Three people on their own, moving into the mid-distance and - gone? Or the sudden blocked access of a vehicle pulled up, the sounding of brakes, the glint of a gun. Either - disappearing into the dimming light of an Oklahoma October.

This case, this case. I've only of all the many on WS that I've read, dreamed of two. This one is one of course; this one.

I agree,wfgodot! Mtrooper has been a real blessing to those who have looked for the Jamison family all these years.

She took time to travel to Oklahoma to find answers. Boy, did she!!! She has been a big help to us.

For those who are new here, go back to the beginning of thread #3. I think many of your question can be answered. :twocents:

 

[wfgodot]

Being just a bit jealous (yes lol) about all the theorizing on the McStay thread(s) (and more power to them), I thought I'd just jot down what forces may have opposed the Jamisons - who would want to do them harm, perhaps.

Little726 - who has my greatest respect thanks to the time she has put in on these threads - thinks it, perhaps, was someone playing on the "spirits" thing, offering to rid the Jamisons of this sort of plague.

So that's one. The whole drug thing would be another too. And so if they were killed, was it:

* deaths connected to hallucinations (or realities) of haunts & spirits - nefarious others taking advantage

* deaths connected with drugs, specifically meth - they were in San Bois to purchase or sell and they were caught out

* deaths connected with drugs also - but they stumbled onto a meth cooking or pot growing operation in the mountains

* deaths connected to enemies - real ones - made during time at Lake Eufaula: white supremacists and so on

* deaths connected to unknown aspects of family involvement or enemies made years before in OKC

What else might have been? Help me out here. If there's one thing I know about this case, it's that I'm always missing something.

And what do you guys think?

 

[Leomoon80]

Being just a bit jealous (yes lol) about all the theorizing on the McStay thread(s) (and more power to them), I thought I'd just jot down what forces may have opposed the Jamisons - who would want to do them harm, perhaps.

Little726 - who has my greatest respect thanks to the time she has put in on these threads - thinks it, perhaps, was someone playing on the "spirits" thing, offering to rid the Jamisons of this sort of plague.

So that's one. The whole drug thing would be another too. And so if they were killed, was it:

* deaths connected to hallucinations (or realities) of haunts & spirits - nefarious others taking advantage

* deaths connected with drugs, specifically meth - they were in San Bois to purchase or sell and they were caught out

* deaths connected with drugs also - but they stumbled onto a meth cooking or pot growing operation in the mountains

* deaths connected to enemies - real ones - made during time at Lake Eufaula: white supremacists and so on

* deaths connected to unknown aspects of family involvement or enemies made years before in OKC

What else might have been? Help me out here. If there's one thing I know about this case, it's that I'm always missing something.

And what do you guys think?

I think you summed it up nicely....

Don't forget too, there was a 100 minute (or so) call made to "a woman on the mountain", the morning before they disappeared.

At least according to my notes.:seeya:

 

[wfgodot]

I think you summed it up nicely....

Don't forget too, there was a 100 minute (or so) call made to "a woman on the mountain", the morning before they disappeared.

At least according to my notes.:seeya:

Good point. Add:

* deaths connected with someone on mountain or in area exclusive of drug involvement

 

[wfgodot]

Okay, here's a do-over with Leomoon's excellent point added:

Could it have been....

* deaths connected to hallucinations (or realities) of haunts & spirits - nefarious others taking advantage

* deaths connected with drugs, specifically meth - they were in San Bois to purchase or sell and they were caught out

* deaths connected with drugs also - but they stumbled onto a meth cooking or pot growing operation in the mountains

* deaths connected to enemies - real ones - made during time at Lake Eufaula: white supremacists and so on

* deaths connected to unknown aspects of family involvement or enemies made years before in OKC

* deaths connected with someone on mountain or in area - person(s) who perhaps knew of large sum of money on hand

 

[Hatfield]

Okay, here's a do-over with Leomoon's excellent point added:

Could it have been....

* deaths connected to hallucinations (or realities) of haunts & spirits - nefarious others taking advantage

* deaths connected with drugs, specifically meth - they were in San Bois to purchase or sell and they were caught out

* deaths connected with drugs also - but they stumbled onto a meth cooking or pot growing operation in the mountains

* deaths connected to enemies - real ones - made during time at Lake Eufaula: white supremacists and so on

* deaths connected to unknown aspects of family involvement or enemies made years before in OKC

* deaths connected with someone on mountain or in area - person(s) who perhaps knew of large sum of money on hand

I definitely do not know enough about this case or the terrain yet to know if getting lost and succumbing to exposure is even a possible option?

Are we leaving that off because its not really possible based on the terrain and houses/water in the area?

 

[tezi]

Being just a bit jealous (yes lol) about all the theorizing on the McStay thread(s) (and more power to them), I thought I'd just jot down what forces may have opposed the Jamisons - who would want to do them harm, perhaps.

Little726 - who has my greatest respect thanks to the time she has put in on these threads - thinks it, perhaps, was someone playing on the "spirits" thing, offering to rid the Jamisons of this sort of plague.

So that's one. The whole drug thing would be another too. And so if they were killed, was it:

* deaths connected to hallucinations (or realities) of haunts & spirits - nefarious others taking advantage

* deaths connected with drugs, specifically meth - they were in San Bois to purchase or sell and they were caught out

* deaths connected with drugs also - but they stumbled onto a meth cooking or pot growing operation in the mountains

* deaths connected to enemies - real ones - made during time at Lake Eufaula: white supremacists and so on

* deaths connected to unknown aspects of family involvement or enemies made years before in OKC

What else might have been? Help me out here. If there's one thing I know about this case, it's that I'm always missing something.

And what do you guys think?

I just don't know what to think about this case. I think it could have something to do with drugs. That amount of money under the seat just leads me to believe something nefarious was going on. And if the satchel had money in it, and it's missing, where is it?

Thank you everyone for your hard work. I greatly appreciate everyone's posts.

 

[Snoopster]

I definitely do not know enough about this case or the terrain yet to know if getting lost and succumbing to exposure is even a possible option?

Are we leaving that off because its not really possible based on the terrain and houses/water in the area?

You are wise to ask that question.

Many of us who were trying to solve this case a few years back were frustrated because the searches turned up nothing. That meant that we turned our attention to other possible causes....and there was no shortage of them!

Many on here are tip-toeing around other possible contributors to the deaths of this family. We can't come out and say what we are thinking, as that is against TOS.

That's not to say that it wasn't a simple case of getting lost. No one knows at this point.

Thanks for asking the question.

 

[Mitch1]

Just curious, they reported the dog had been left in the truck for about a week and was near death. I would think that a dog locked in a vehicle for that long and starving would be pawing up the windows, tearing up and chewing on literally everything due to fear and starvation-I didn't think that I saw any of that in the photos of the inside of the truck??

 

[wfgodot]

I definitely do not know enough about this case or the terrain yet to know if getting lost and succumbing to exposure is even a possible option?

Are we leaving that off because its not really possible based on the terrain and houses/water in the area?

Just leaving it off for now as I was trying to ascertain possible "third party involvement" that might have taken place.

The other two possibles definitely are:

* deaths connected to becoming lost in the region and succumbing to the elements

* deaths connected to either murder(s)/suicide or a suicide pact + murder

 

[Simply Caustic]

OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #3 - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Edited to add...here's the text of the post from 2010...

Bobby had gone with her as well. One of the church members spoke of both Sherilyn and Bobby, and was also supposed to go with them that day to see the property.


Unsure if that's going to properly show up...but it's a 2010 post from the inimitable mtrooper stating that a member or members of Sherilyns church were planning on going to look at the property with them....

If so, I wonder what changed their mind? Quite convenient...

Sent from my KFTHWI