OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 July 2013 - #1

[OkieGranny]

About those phone calls...

From the Millers' radio interview:

PMF: Okay, um, he's wanting to know more about the phone records and the phone call that Molly made, asking for a ride and where she was.

MMS: Well, I don't believe it was Molly on the phone.

PMF: But we don't know that. That, at this point…

MMS: But I don't believe that. But, um, she called a friend, she was walking down Pike Road. Um, called a friend, asking for a ride, water, and she was crying, and she was alone at that point.

From the Haynes' radio interview:

MHS: I, I do know, uh, one guy told me that he talked to her at six, a little after six that morning, uh, because he was on his way to work. And he said it was definitely her. I asked him several times if he was sure and he said, yes, it was Molly that I talked to. So I don't know if they just haven't talked to him or if, you know, he hasn't…

JHM: Well, he, yeah, he said she called him and asked him what he was doing and he said he was on his way to work and asked her what she was doing and she said, oh, I'm over here on Long Hollow Road with Colt. And he said Colt who? And she said Colt Haynes. And he said, oh, well, I'm on my way to work so I'll just let you go. And he said, if I had've known she was in any kind of trouble or needed help of any kind I wouldn't have, you know, just blew her off like that, but she didn't act like there was anything wrong. He said, I immediately had told her I was on my work to work, though, so, you know, maybe she tried to call somebody else to give her a ride, thinking that, you know, he's on his way to work, I'll just call someone else.

These sound like two different phone calls to me. Two alleged phone calls. In one, she was alone and crying on Pike Road. In the other, she was with Colt on Long Hollow Road and did not give any hint of distress.

I'm wondering if MMS may have misspoken when she said Pike Road, because that's two miles to west of Long Hollow, and that would be a pretty long hike through the woods in the dark. I can imagine Molly saying she was on Pike Road if she went back north on Long Hollow, turned left on Oswalt, and saw a street sign at the intersection of Oswalt and Pike. Was Molly familiar enough with the geography of that area to know she was on Pike Road otherwise? Because I watched a news report yesterday from the day they checked out the burning hole east of Pike and it looked like just your basic asphalt country road, hard to distinguish from any other unless you know Pike is the next road over.

I still haven't seen or heard or read enough to convince me that either of these two calls ever happened. It is possible they did but, at this moment, I'm leaning toward thinking Molly didn't live long after that 911 call at 12:57 a.m.

 

[Hatfield]

After reading the interviews, it does sound like the terrain is very wooded and way out in the sticks and this is what I was afraid of. Because if we are to believe the phone calls, then another real possibility is they may have truly gotten lost and may have died from exposure to the elements if they were out there for days and never could find food or water. Especially if they were both injured badly, they would not have been able to walk very far.

We suspect Colt probably could hardly walk at all, and if Molly chose to stay with him for awhile, then by the time she may have left him to go for help, she may have been too weak herself to make it very far.

So, even if no foul play is involved, I think a real possibility is they may have died of exposure to the elements, and no food or water.

 

[OkieGranny]

Perhaps LE could ask CN's grandparent's again to search that property, so they can rule CN out in this disappearance. They could also appeal to the grandparent's as parents and grandparents. Ask them to imagine their own children or grandchildren being missing for several months. Besides, Colt and Molly could have perished on that property and it had nothing to do with anything nefarious.

I can't believe the hardened hearts of CN's family —unbelievable, but very sad too. If they have nothing to hide, why not help Molly and Colt's familes???

I saw some comments about the grandparents not cooperating because of a dog being shot, and finally managed to track down that story. The incident apparently took place on Saturday, July 13, less than a week after Colt and Molly vanished:

http://www.ardmoreite.com/article/20130715/NEWS/130719861/0/SEARCH

An Overbrook resident has used a social media Internet site to complain that a Carter County deputy shot and killed her dog Saturday during the ongoing search for a missing Wilson teenager.

<snip>

"They came down to our place, about a mile-and-a-half down the road — two Carter County and one Love County deputies, and one of them said he shot the dog," Nipp said, describing the dog as a family pet.

Although she said deputies said they were searching for a Wilson teenager, reported as a runaway July 8, and were following leads as to her whereabouts, Nipp maintained, "I don't know how these rumors get started. [My son's family] already told the girl's daddy a couple of days ago they didn't know where she was. [Deputies] had no right to search private property. No one was home and the dog was not vicious. They could have used other means. If they had fired in the air, he would have run off — or sprayed him with mace."

Just to be clear, the dog was not shot on the grandparents' property, a.k.a. The Property That Cannot Be Searched. The shooting happened on another relative's property on Oswalt, west of Pike Road.

Okay, so here's a theory. The grandparents are older, of a generation that is not generally internet-savvy. Maybe they don't know a lot of details about this case, only what they've been told by family and friends and what they've read in the newspaper. Maybe they've heard rumors, but their grandson says he didn't have anything to do with it and they believe him. They're PO'd that LE has already shot this dog while searching family property without a warrant, so they're done with it. Under those circumstances, I could see them saying, "Nope, leave us alone. She's not here. Go away."

 

[hot cawfeee]

Morning sweetlings-------hope everyone is doing great today!!

First question and I apologize if its a repeat----does Molly's phone have a GPS and a means of re-charging? Maybe her phone is common enough that she can borrow anothers charger to keep her phone working.

Thanks McSpy---your post at 320!!! Its a very plausible scenario.

Okiegranny-- thank you for these transcripts--wow!!!!! Does anyone think the Host has gotten some phone calls??????

 

[Hatfield]

I saw some comments about the grandparents not cooperating because of a dog being shot, and finally managed to track down that story. The incident apparently took place on Saturday, July 13, less than a week after Colt and Molly vanished:

http://www.ardmoreite.com/article/20130715/NEWS/130719861/0/SEARCH



Just to be clear, the dog was not shot on the grandparents' property, a.k.a. The Property That Cannot Be Searched. The shooting happened on another relative's property on Oswalt, west of Pike Road.

Okay, so here's a theory. The grandparents are older, of a generation that is not generally internet-savvy. Maybe they don't know a lot of details about this case, only what they've been told by family and friends and what they've read in the newspaper. Maybe they've heard rumors, but their grandson says he didn't have anything to do with it and they believe him. They're PO'd that LE has already shot this dog while searching family property without a warrant, so they're done with it. Under those circumstances, I could see them saying, "Nope, leave us alone. She's not here. Go away."

I agree. I would be very upset too.

Is it just me or does it seem like LE is way too trigger happy on dogs. I have seen time and time again where a LE officer blows away a dog without trying other means first.

Its ridiculous, and very upsetting. I totally realize that their uniform makes dogs go crazy, but they have to realize they are the ones encroaching and causing the dogs to behave like that in their uniforms. IMO, they need to go above and beyond to prevent shooting a dog unless absolutely necessary.
I am sickened every time I hear about an officer shooting a family pet, when they are the ones encroaching.
This really perterbs me.
There are other ways that can be tried first like mace, tazers, etc. , but so many times, they immediately just take out their gun and blow a dog away.
Uggggggggggg.

 

[McSpy]

About those phone calls...

From the Millers' radio interview:



From the Haynes' radio interview:



These sound like two different phone calls to me. Two alleged phone calls. In one, she was alone and crying on Pike Road. In the other, she was with Colt on Long Hollow Road and did not give any hint of distress.

I'm wondering if MMS may have misspoken when she said Pike Road, because that's two miles to west of Long Hollow, and that would be a pretty long hike through the woods in the dark. I can imagine Molly saying she was on Pike Road if she went back north on Long Hollow, turned left on Oswalt, and saw a street sign at the intersection of Oswalt and Pike. Was Molly familiar enough with the geography of that area to know she was on Pike Road otherwise? Because I watched a news report yesterday from the day they checked out the burning hole east of Pike and it looked like just your basic asphalt country road, hard to distinguish from any other unless you know Pike is the next road over.

I still haven't seen or heard or read enough to convince me that either of these two calls ever happened. It is possible they did but, at this moment, I'm leaning toward thinking Molly didn't live long after that 911 call at 12:57 a.m.

Are you saying these calls could have been fake? Do you think Colt's calls were fake too? He said very specifc things (broken ankle, bleeding from mouth). Why would someone fake Molly's calls, but not Colt's? We probably should do a timeline on these calls. Perhaps, Molly's last call was faked. It's hard to tell.

 

[McSpy]

I saw some comments about the grandparents not cooperating because of a dog being shot, and finally managed to track down that story. The incident apparently took place on Saturday, July 13, less than a week after Colt and Molly vanished:

http://www.ardmoreite.com/article/20130715/NEWS/130719861/0/SEARCH



Just to be clear, the dog was not shot on the grandparents' property, a.k.a. The Property That Cannot Be Searched. The shooting happened on another relative's property on Oswalt, west of Pike Road.

Okay, so here's a theory. The grandparents are older, of a generation that is not generally internet-savvy. Maybe they don't know a lot of details about this case, only what they've been told by family and friends and what they've read in the newspaper. Maybe they've heard rumors, but their grandson says he didn't have anything to do with it and they believe him. They're PO'd that LE has already shot this dog while searching family property without a warrant, so they're done with it. Under those circumstances, I could see them saying, "Nope, leave us alone. She's not here. Go away."

I can see that happening. Very good point.

 

[OkieGranny]

After reading the interviews, it does sound like the terrain is very wooded and way out in the sticks and this is what I was afraid of. Because if we are to believe the phone calls, then another real possibility is they may have truly gotten lost and may have died from exposure to the elements if they were out there for days and never could find food or water. Especially if they were both injured badly, they would not have been able to walk very far.

We suspect Colt probably could hardly walk at all, and if Molly chose to stay with him for awhile, then by the time she may have left him to go for help, she may have been too weak herself to make it very far.

So, even if no foul play is involved, I think a real possibility is they may have died of exposure to the elements, and no food or water.

Yes, I can see that as a possibility, but have to wonder why they would have gone through the woods instead of up the road? Unless they were afraid and hiding from someone?

Just for the sake of argument, let's say there was something in the car that could have gotten the three of them into serious legal trouble. We don't know what condition Molly was in, but Colt was apparently seriously injured. In such a situation, how would they weigh their next move? Would they have felt it more important to hide or to get help? Molly apparently wanted help, thus the 911 call.

From the Haynes' radio interview:

JHM: Yes. And it's really, it's a pretty dense area and really, uh, it's not level terrain at all. There's lots and lots of creeks and things all through there that are not even, even traversed. Because we couldn't have taken four-wheelers or anything through there.

If Molly was still mobile, it seems like she could have found water. Not that I'd recommend drinking creek water, but it will do in a pinch if there are no other options available. If she (because I just don't see Colt walking on that leg) headed any direction other than south, she was just a mile or less from a road. She was an athletic girl and, if she was not seriously injured, it seems like she would have eventually been able find her way out of the woods before she could starve to death, even if she did a lot of wandering in circles. At the very least, she would have eventually stumbled across a trail or an oil lease road to follow. Unless, you know, it was July, so maybe heatstroke or a snakebite or something, I don't know.

Good morning, hot cawfee! :seeya: I'm pretty sure the host's phone line has been burning up. He comments regularly on the Operation Find Molly page; his name has "okdf" attached to the end of it, which I think stands for "Oklahoma Defense Force" or something like that. Am eagerly looking forward to tonight's radio show, hoping more family members call in with more details because I'm only allowed to post transcripts if it's a family member speaking.

 

[Hatfield]

Morning sweetlings-------hope everyone is doing great today!!

First question and I apologize if its a repeat----does Molly's phone have a GPS and a means of re-charging? Maybe her phone is common enough that she can borrow anothers charger to keep her phone working.
Thanks McSpy---your post at 320!!! Its a very plausible scenario.

Okiegranny-- thank you for these transcripts--wow!!!!! Does anyone think the Host has gotten some phone calls??????

If she was lost in the woods, i doubt she was able to re-charge the phone.
I agree if she could get to a store, there probably would be another charger she could buy that would fit her phone.

IMO, i think the biggest problem with this case is there is way too much conflict of interests. The families need to get some unbias LE to come in and drive the search effort.

Because if I followed this right,
-The Sheriff is related to the person that was being chased.
-The owner of the towing company and place where car was towed is possibly related too ???
-Another close by landowner had their family pet dog shot by LE, so they of course would not want to cooperate further.
-The owner of the car was a possible girlfriend of the person being chased.

At this point, I would want an outside LE agency to direct any future search and investigation efforts.

 

[McSpy]

Morning sweetlings-------hope everyone is doing great today!!

First question and I apologize if its a repeat----does Molly's phone have a GPS and a means of re-charging? Maybe her phone is common enough that she can borrow anothers charger to keep her phone working.

Thanks McSpy---your post at 320!!! Its a very plausible scenario.

Okiegranny-- thank you for these transcripts--wow!!!!! Does anyone think the Host has gotten some phone calls??????

Unfortunately, I haven't read anything about Molly's phone model or service provider. Supposedly, Colt's phone was one of those tracphone types. His phone number was reassigned to another person, because he hasn't recharged any payment for future calls. His phone is pretty useless at this point. It is only good for a 911 call, if he somehow managed to charge the battery.

I think I have this right . . I need to double check.

 

[McSpy]

After reading the interviews, it does sound like the terrain is very wooded and way out in the sticks and this is what I was afraid of. Because if we are to believe the phone calls, then another real possibility is they may have truly gotten lost and may have died from exposure to the elements if they were out there for days and never could find food or water. Especially if they were both injured badly, they would not have been able to walk very far.

We suspect Colt probably could hardly walk at all, and if Molly chose to stay with him for awhile, then by the time she may have left him to go for help, she may have been too weak herself to make it very far.

So, even if no foul play is involved, I think a real possibility is they may have died of exposure to the elements, and no food or water.

This scenario has crossed my mind too. It is very plausible. They disappeared in mid-summer, so I'm sure it was terribly uncomfortable. Supposedly, they were near a creek, but perhaps they wandered off to find a road or a house and got lost. Molly and Colt could have even became separated. She may have tried to find help and left Colt, because of his broken ankle. She could have became hopelessly lost in the process. Heat stroke comes to mind.

JMO

 

[Hatfield]

Possible theories so far: Anybody have any others to add?

1-They are still hiding out somewhere and afraid to come forward because of fear of getting in trouble

2- Lost in woods and died of exposure and no food and water

3-They never made it past the wreck site and died there (either from injuries or some sort of fight/altercation or some combination of the two)

4-The 2 of them ran off from the wreck site and someone began to get afraid of what they may tell LE, so they pursued them to stop them from leaving the area (or 1 ran off and was pursued, and 1 died from injuries).

5-LE never did call of the car chase and found them right after the wreck and some altercation caused their demise

6-LE did call off the car chase, but was still patrolling the area looking for them and finally found them and some altercation caused their demise.


ETA: I numbered them so we can have for future reference the number of the theory.

.

 

[OkieGranny]

Are you saying these calls could have been fake? Do you think Colt's calls were fake too? He said very specifc things (broken ankle, bleeding from mouth). Why would someone fake Molly's calls, but not Colt's? We probably should do a timeline on these calls. Perhaps, Molly's last call was faked. It's hard to tell.

I do think Colt's calls were real. His friends did go out looking for him, as residents of the area confirmed.

Molly's alleged calls are more problematic. The fact that there's doubt expressed by at least one of her family members makes me cautious about accepting as fact that the calls did happen. There's also the disparity between the calls described by the two families. The "calm" call was said to have been made around 6:00 a.m. but no one says when the "crying" call was supposed to have been made. Would the "crying" call have been before or after the "calm" call? Or was this a single call and the details have been garbled in the retelling of the story?

From the Millers' radio interview:

GL: See, there's never been a detective to come along to advocate for Molly. You know, there are, these people do this for, to get paid. There's not someone that, that wants to, you know, suspects anything, and, and all of them have kind of just tossed it under the rug, and that's why you know, they never, it wasn't even known about the 911 call until a month later. They let Molly's phone records sit on their desk and go through two different officers' hands before they even were taken a look at. And it wasn't until my stepdad went to the police station and said hey, you know, we want the record, we want the rest of the records, and it wasn't even two minutes after he looked at them he pointed out the three-digit number on there and it said clear as day 911, stick out like a sore thumb...

So we know that someone in Molly's family has seen her phone record. I assume it's still in the hands of LE as evidence, but someone has at least seen it. So they would know what numbers were called from her phone that morning and should be able to determine if those numbers matched up with whoever claimed to have received a call from her.

Another possibility is that her phone was damaged or lost in the wreck or maybe her battery died, so she used Colt's or [the driver's] phone to make calls. But no one has mentioned that a number other than Molly's popped up on the caller ID when she called. Or maybe she asked to use a nearby resident's phone, but as far as we know no such resident has come forward to say, "Yeah, a girl knocked on my door that morning asking to use the phone."

From the Haynes' radio interview:

H: I, I cannot believe, I only imagine that situation. Uh, have y'all been able to get his phone records to verify everybody that he's called that night?

MHS: I have not. Um, AT&T told me that I was unable because he was of age, and if his phone records needed to be gotten, it would have to be by law enforcement or him himself.

H: And, you know...

MHS: And I do know law enforcement got it.

H: … law enforcement really...

MHS: Yes, they do have it. They do have his phone records.

So Colt's family has not seen his phone record to be able to verify what numbers were called from it that morning. And I have no idea if [the driver's] phone record has been checked. I hope so, but who knows?

 

[StacyMarie83]

with those phone calls --- i'm starting to believe there were two (i cannot see those 2 stories being soooooo far apart with molly's demeanor).

If they were high/drunk on anything --- they could have walked 2 miles from long hollow to pike IMO...especially after a car wreck and having the adrenaline. They very well could have separated and both suffered from no food/water (dehydration if they were on drugs or drunk).

BUT --- If any of that were true, why would the driver be making masturbation poses to the family/searchers, why would they not let a search of the property ensue, why would the driver not talk AT ALL ?!?! I'm still leaning towards the driver/LE.

 

[OkieGranny]

If she was lost in the woods, i doubt she was able to re-charge the phone.
I agree if she could get to a store, there probably would be another charger she could buy that would fit her phone.

If Molly made it to a store, they would have let her use the store's phone to call for help. Or someone in that store would have let her use their cell phone. I mean, this is Oklahoma, not NYC, and people here will generally bend over backward to help a young girl in distress. Plus, if her purse was in the car, she probably had no cash on her.

If she was still making calls until at least 6:00 that morning, why didn't she call home? Why didn't she call some other relative? Why didn't she call 911 again?

ETA: From a post by Molly's brother on Operation Find Molly:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/438762539575189/permalink/441413259310117/
<Mod Snip>Why didn't she call her brother?

 

[windstorm]

Getting caught up over here.

1) What would be the purpose of faking phone calls on the part of either one of them?

2) I do remember reading somewhere that Molly's phone died or was destroyed - not sure where I read that or how that would be known other than there wouldn't be a ping.

3) I think the fact that there was a car chase, 911 call, phone ping in the area, car found wrecked and two people missing is probable cause enough to search THE land, regardless of what grandpa and grandma want. Furthermore, I think since LE hasn't obtained that search warrant makes them look guilty as hell of hiding/covering something.

 

[2Hope4]

That's one thing I don't understand! Molly didn't call her brother, and Colt didn't call his sister, that we know of.

 

[windstorm]

That's one thing I don't understand! Molly didn't call her brother, and Colt didn't call his sister, that we know of.

The whole phone calls thing has bothered me from the beginning. She called 911 that night so she obviously knew something was wrong (wreck, danger, etc), but when she called the friend the next morning, she acted like nothing was wrong???

Colt supposedly called friends and said his ankle was broken with a bone sticking out and he was bleeding from his nose. Yet, when Molly called the 6:00 am friend she failed to mention that Colt was hurt???

And I still can't think of a single reason that anybody (CN??) would make calls or texts from either Colt or Molly's phone other than maybe he wanted it to look like they were alive and well after the accident. But, why, say Colt was hurt?

 

[BlithePlum]

Is another radio interview happening tonight? I checked the BlogTalkRadio site and didn't see any mention of a broadcast tonight.

 

[McSpy]

with those phone calls --- i'm starting to believe there were two (i cannot see those 2 stories being soooooo far apart with molly's demeanor).

If they were high/drunk on anything --- they could have walked 2 miles from long hollow to pike IMO...especially after a car wreck and having the adrenaline. They very well could have separated and both suffered from no food/water (dehydration if they were on drugs or drunk).

BUT --- If any of that were true, why would the driver be making masturbation poses to the family/searchers, why would they not let a search of the property ensue, why would the driver not talk AT ALL ?!?! I'm still leaning towards the driver/LE.

I'm pretty sure his lawyer told him to not say anything. He lawyered up right away.