OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 July 2013 - #1

[McSpy]

Why would they seperate immediately after wreck? When they get out of car they know no one is around, they can see the lights though. Why would those two split off from the one person that probably knows his way around? They are friends until the crash, why not stick together? Maybe they were mad but to walk into a wilderness type of area vs following your friend home....even if you did it from a distance.

One thing which has most everyone wondering is supposedly CN was not really friends with Colt. Colt had a baby with CN's girlfriend (not the one who owned the car). I think CN was not very happy with Colt. Although, sometimes that kind of thing smooths out over time. Maybe this was the case, I don't know. However, it seems like people, who know Colt, were surprised to find that he was in a car with CN. There is a big mystery on why they were together.

For some reason, I picture CN running home and leaving the other 2 behind. That may not have happened, but it is just a feeling I have. I have the impression he was only willing to save his own hide.

JMO

 

[McSpy]

As they say, you learn something every day. Apparently, a broken ankle is somewhat common in a car accident.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/broken-ankle/DS00951

Supposedly, the impact can break ankles. I'm not sure the car accident in this case was bad enough for this to happen, but it seems possible. However, if Colt broke his ankle in the car, this suggests to me that he didn't get very far. He was probably in a creek bed close by.

Just some thoughts . .

 

[TooCurious]

As they say, you learn something every day. Apparently, a broken ankle is somewhat common in a car accident.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/broken-ankle/DS00951

Supposedly, the impact can break ankles. I'm not sure the car accident in this case was bad enough for this to happen, but it seems possible. However, if Colt broke his ankle in the car, this suggests to me that he didn't get very far. He was probably in a creek bed close by.

Just some thoughts . .

Now you see where I am coming from. Since breaking the ankle is far more likely in the accident than the woods scenario. (Although it happens but usually not that bad) So if it is done in the wreck, why wait that long to call?
I think CN was with them and helped out for awhile. As someone else pointed out, why not stay by the car and use it for shelter and comfort? I feel so bad for these kids. I think everything snowballed on them and 3 lives were destroyed. CN knew where to find CH, that's why there is no body now. (IMO) How did he know? He was with them and knew CH could not walk far. Sure would like to see phone records for CN from 11 pm to 10 am.
What time did he notify friends his ankle was broke? Average walking speed is 3.1 mph an hour. From time of wreck until that phone call, how much time expired? So if you draw a circle on a map, with protractor set to map scale and where it intersects with dry creek bed, don't you have your search area? We all agree he isn't going far with that ankle and MM to help. Anyone care to do this on a map and post it? Cross reference with MM location at 9:30 and you should have direction.

 

[2Hope4]

But somewhere I read his friends thought he was high, or something and didn't believe he had a broken ankle.

This whole case is mind blowing. So much he said, she said, and little facts, IMO. Throw in the drugs, and no telling how many others within the families, and friends are also drug users, and it gets more complicated. I'm not even sure I believe all that MM's family posts. Most just opinions, but nothing backed up with facts, IMO. So I just don't know!!!!

I wondered if Molly and Colt hadn't run away to be together, since the families didn't seem like they wanted them together, but with this much time, would they have the means to stay missing? Would they not contact family and just say "Hey, we're OK, and want to be left alone?" I don't know!

 

[McSpy]

Now you see where I am coming from. Since breaking the ankle is far more likely in the accident than the woods scenario. (Although it happens but usually not that bad) So if it is done in the wreck, why wait that long to call?
I think CN was with them and helped out for awhile. As someone else pointed out, why not stay by the car and use it for shelter and comfort? I feel so bad for these kids. I think everything snowballed on them and 3 lives were destroyed. CN knew where to find CH, that's why there is no body now. (IMO) How did he know? He was with them and knew CH could not walk far. Sure would like to see phone records for CN from 11 pm to 10 am.
What time did he notify friends his ankle was broke? Average walking speed is 3.1 mph an hour. From time of wreck until that phone call, how much time expired? So if you draw a circle on a map, with protractor set to map scale and where it intersects with dry creek bed, don't you have your search area? We all agree he isn't going far with that ankle and MM to help. Anyone care to do this on a map and post it? Cross reference with MM location at 9:30 and you should have direction.

I agree that things snowballed. It is so unfortunate and especially not worth the loss of lives.

Yet, I'm still stuck on my line of thinking (kids afraid of police). Since they were running from police (car chase from Wilson) and Colt was on probation, I think he tried to run away from the scene in any way he could. He may have had something illegal on him and/or he was high. IMO, there was a reason he didn't call 911 or a family member. Otherwise, he would have called or had Molly call. He seemed desperate on the calls to his friends. Sometimes the courts make you do the full sentence of jail time, if you break probation with breaking the law. Colt could have been afraid of doing 3 or more years of prison––I don't know. There are certain conditions with probation. I don't know the conditions of Colt's probation, but any additional crimes committed while on probation are probably not taken lightly.
This is all just my opinion.

 

[wfgodot]

If CN solely to blame, not sure if we'd be seeing what I perceive to be the relative stonewalling.

 

[McSpy]

But somewhere I read his friends thought he was high, or something and didn't believe he had a broken ankle.

This whole case is mind blowing. So much he said, she said, and little facts, IMO. Throw in the drugs, and no telling how many others within the families, and friends are also drug users, and it gets more complicated. I'm not even sure I believe all that MM's family posts. Most just opinions, but nothing backed up with facts, IMO. So I just don't know!!!!

I wondered if Molly and Colt hadn't run away to be together, since the families didn't seem like they wanted them together, but with this much time, would they have the means to stay missing? Would they not contact family and just say "Hey, we're OK, and want to be left alone?" I don't know!

I trust PMF's posts. She seems very upfront and realistic. In fact, I think both Colt's and Molly's families are being honest. I think there was confusion and distrust of LE in the beginning, but it seems that since other LE agencies have become involved, the families feel some progress has been made on the case. I try to read between the lines. There are a lot of dopey comments on social media from outsiders, which I try to ignore. I pay attention to the family's comments or people close to the case comments.

JMO and just some thoughts . .

 

[TooCurious]

There has to be some question as to who was driving (it has been reported in the news CN was) or else they are intentionally not arresting him for eluding. This is why I am really leaning to CH driving, there are no eye witnesses that say he was driving because he has not been arrested. Probably it did happen like you and everyone else thinks but there is an alternative. Btw, if CN left them why would he come back the next day looking for MM? He wouldn't have known CH was dead unless he just happened upon MM and she told him. So, after being out late, getting in a wreck, walking home he is just cruising around looking for them? Either he cared what happened to them or he didn't, if he cared somewhat he stayed with them, if he didn't then, he left them and didn't go back to check on them. Did that make sense? If your logic says he didn't care then you can't make him return to check on them. That shows he does care. Again, hard to apply logic to the illogical.

 

[TooCurious]

Then again, I have heard several comments from searchers saying people were out in the woods, a trailer, a hog, this and that. Someone else could have grabbed MM and cleaned up evidence of CH. This is the longshot theory!
It just sounded like the searchers were back in the woods and all this talk about Meth makes you think someone had an operation or multiple operations. When you see folks out in BFE with no electricty and moveable trailer all hell can go wrong. Couple of Meth heads see a cute girl MM walking down the road who knows what they could do or would do. Crime of opportunity? When did CN get an attorney? The next day or a week, month later?
Where is the fast forward button?!! I want them to be found and laid to rest. Hope CN's attorney isn't reading our posts...some really good "other guy" scenarios on here.

 

[McSpy]

Well, I looked up the conditions and violations of probation and found that I can see why anyone on it would be afraid of having any contact with law enforcement after high speed car chase.

http://okdefense.com/probation-violations/

 

[McSpy]

There has to be some question as to who was driving (it has been reported in the news CN was) or else they are intentionally not arresting him for eluding. This is why I am really leaning to CH driving, there are no eye witnesses that say he was driving because he has not been arrested. Probably it did happen like you and everyone else thinks but there is an alternative. Btw, if CN left them why would he come back the next day looking for MM? He wouldn't have known CH was dead unless he just happened upon MM and she told him. So, after being out late, getting in a wreck, walking home he is just cruising around looking for them? Either he cared what happened to them or he didn't, if he cared somewhat he stayed with them, if he didn't then, he left them and didn't go back to check on them. Did that make sense? If your logic says he didn't care then you can't make him return to check on them. That shows he does care. Again, hard to apply logic to the illogical.

bolded by me

I think it is possible they don't have enough evidence he was the driver. It is also possible they don't have a clue who was driving for sure. There is a lot of hearsay evidence and rumor that CN was the driver. We don't know what they found in the car. Maybe there was blood near the brake and accelerator pedals (Colts broken ankle). Also, where was Molly's purse found? Front seat or back seat?

I don't know if CN checked on them or not, but he could have out of curiosity. When he was asked about Colt's and Molly's whereabouts, because they were missing, he could have taken a look around. He could have gone back to the wreck the next morning. Molly could have ran into him. He didn't live that far from the car wreck. Since the couple is missing, CN could have hurt them, which would be one reason he may have looked for them. Maybe he didn't want any witnesses. Supposedly, he was on probation too. He did state to one of Molly's relatives that he didn't want to go to jail, after she asked him about Molly's whereabouts. It is an odd answer to say the least.

It is possible CN has nothing to do with the couple's disappearance. They could have perished from dehydration in the July heat. In the beginning, I thought they may have taken off, but too much time has passed in my opinion. I would think someone would have heard from at least one of them.

The whole thing is a mystery.

 

[McSpy]

If CN solely to blame, not sure if we'd be seeing what I perceive to be the relative stonewalling.

What do you mean? Who's stonewalling? Can you clarify? TIA

 

[wfgodot]

What do you mean? Who's stonewalling? Can you clarify? TIA

I don't think significant progress has been made and these two have been missing since the first week in July. Why would that be? Perhaps now we're seeing, in these last weeks, movement. Perhaps not. Not to be cryptic - it's really because I don't know directly the answer to the question I posed above - but I can think of other cases of this nature in OK which have stayed unsolved and about which I could ask similar questions: Is someone being protected? Why? And by whom? Who might benefit from a case staying unsolved?

 

[OkieGranny]

I felt the the need to step away and disengage for a couple of days, catch up on some IRL things, and let the dust settle, but I see y'all have kept stirring it, lol.

wfgodot, I do feel like some kind of evidence must have turned up, whether it's from the car, the hole, people giving up information, or whatever; if not, the families would still be screaming to the high heavens that nothing is being done. But, from statements made in recent weeks, they do seem to feel progress is being made, so I'm content to believe that is the case.

I posted my theory a page or two ago and have seen nothing since that changes my mind. I can't think of any scenario where the driver intended at the beginning to kill Colt and Molly that night. If he did, why would he let them make phone calls first, and potentially let people know where they were and who they were with? And pulling a donut in front of a cop? I think that was less of a taunting thing and more of a tweaking thing. Very likely he did have something significant in the car and/or was under the influence of one or more chemical substances, and the sight of LE gave him a flash of panic and he reacted without thinking.

I do feel like Colt died, rather than being killed, and that his death was the catalyst for Molly's death. She was the weak link, a witness who might spill everything she knew if LE began investigating Colt's death. She was the one who could most easily cut a deal to keep herself out of legal trouble.

I do think the driver ran straight home to the safety of family connections after the wreck, but ventured back out later that morning, found Colt dead, panicked, and tracked Molly down before she could catch a ride out of there. Things had gotten much more serious than he intended and I think he just wanted to make it all go away. Silence her, hide the bodies, let everyone think Colt and Molly just ran off, and go back to life as usual, acting like nothing ever happened.

It's possible others were involved in Molly's death or disposal of the bodies, but not in any way that lets the driver off the hook. He's in this up to his eyeballs. Whatever happened to Molly, it wasn't some random stranger who did it.

 

[OkieGranny]

Just occurred to me to look up what phase the moon was in that night, to see how much light Colt and Molly would have had if they tried to navigate their way out of the area. It would have been very dark, next to no moon at all:

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon-july-2013.phtml

 

[McSpy]

I felt the the need to step away and disengage for a couple of days, catch up on some IRL things, and let the dust settle, but I see y'all have kept stirring it, lol.

wfgodot, I do feel like some kind of evidence must have turned up, whether it's from the car, the hole, people giving up information, or whatever; if not, the families would still be screaming to the high heavens that nothing is being done. But, from statements made in recent weeks, they do seem to feel progress is being made, so I'm content to believe that is the case.

I posted my theory a page or two ago and have seen nothing since that changes my mind. I can't think of any scenario where the driver intended at the beginning to kill Colt and Molly that night. If he did, why would he let them make phone calls first, and potentially let people know where they were and who they were with? And pulling a donut in front of a cop? I think that was less of a taunting thing and more of a tweaking thing. Very likely he did have something significant in the car and/or was under the influence of one or more chemical substances, and the sight of LE gave him a flash of panic and he reacted without thinking.

I do feel like Colt died, rather than being killed, and that his death was the catalyst for Molly's death. She was the weak link, a witness who might spill everything she knew if LE began investigating Colt's death. She was the one who could most easily cut a deal to keep herself out of legal trouble.

I do think the driver ran straight home to the safety of family connections after the wreck, but ventured back out later that morning, found Colt dead, panicked, and tracked Molly down before she could catch a ride out of there. Things had gotten much more serious than he intended and I think he just wanted to make it all go away. Silence her, hide the bodies, let everyone think Colt and Molly just ran off, and go back to life as usual, acting like nothing ever happened.

It's possible others were involved in Molly's death or disposal of the bodies, but not in any way that lets the driver off the hook. He's in this up to his eyeballs. Whatever happened to Molly, it wasn't some random stranger who did it.

Your theory makes a lot of sense to me. IMO, it is probably very close to what happened.

 

[TooCurious]

http://www.ardmoreite.com/article/20131111/NEWS/131119992?rssfeed=true

I may have missed this link posted but here is another "update" from two days ago. I have heard the CN drug talk but I guess this is the first time I knew CH was in trouble for "endeavoring to manufacture". A warrant is out for his arrest. (Failure to pay court cost)
I still think they have leverage on the car owner for possibly committing insurance fraud and they can use that to get her to talk.

 

[TooCurious]

So they do have eyewitnesses as to who was driving. Why not arrest for eluding? High bond, let him post then re-arrest on another charge?

 

[Hatfield]

Just wanted to say hello. Ive been so busy, havent had time much to follow the cases here. Still praying the families get the answers they need.

 

[Hatfield]

So they do have eyewitnesses as to who was driving. Why not arrest for eluding? High bond, let him post then re-arrest on another charge?

I agree that there seems to be enough to arrest for something. I am afraid the relationship that the driver had with the sheriff may have contributed to why a lot of things were not done.