Omaha double murder

[Snick1946]

Respectfully snipped from Astro Thread; Case Briefings Only

Yellowdog ... Tuba answered your question below; Does the chart indicate who was killed first, Shirlee or Thomas?

Tuba Said; " No, Yellow Dog but the housekeeper was in a hall and Thomas in a room. The chart does show she tried to protect him so she was undoubtedly "taken care of" first".

I just posted a note of thanks on the Astrology board to Tuba. She has gone far beyond the call of duty in providing input into the case. Thanks also to FifthEssence and the others on that board who have so selflessly given of their time to try to guide us in the right direction.

 

[tapu]

This person also noted that the side door, into the kitchen- could have been the point of entrance. This was just off the dining room, and the door down to the basement was in the DR. So it remains in the realm of possibility that the perp could have been an intruder who perhaps ran into Tom coming up from the basement and in a panic killed him. In other words this could have been a botched home robbery gone terribly wrong.
This is not what I personaly believe- but I am open to all possibilities. My personal opinion is that this was a planned calculated killing for reasons that we are as yet not aware of. It just reminds us that we need to keep open to all possibilities.

Heya, Snick.

What you say here reminds of something a detective friend told me: He said that people often want to believe that a crime like this has some complicated story behind it. That it was a hit. Or that there was some involvement with the family or with unknown connections. His theory is that people just want to make sense of something terrible, but that most often the reality is a simple, depressing fact, for example, that it was some pointless robbery attempt as you suggested.

I'm not saying it's not worth thinking about other scenarios, but I would not be terribly surprised if we found out that it was just that.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Heya, Snick.

What you say here reminds of something a detective friend told me: He said that people often want to believe that a crime like this has some complicated story behind it. That it was a hit. Or that there was some involvement with the family or with unknown connections. His theory is that people just want to make sense of something terrible, but that most often the reality is a simple, depressing fact, for example, that it was some pointless robbery attempt as you suggested.

I'm not saying it's not worth thinking about other scenarios, but I would not be terribly surprised if we found out that it was just that.

Hi Tapu!

I do agree to some extent with your detective friend. People are so used to seeing movies/t.v. shows with these complicated plots involving murder that when they think of a motive for terrible crimes like this, they often over-analyze the situation. You're right...it is often just a robbery gone bad. I'm with Snick on this one, though. I think it could be more complicated than that. Snick, you bring up an interesting point about the perp cutting through people's yards. If that is the case, it really brings up more unanswered questions. Like, why didn't the witnesses call the police when a stranger is cutting through their neighbor's yards? I'm fairly confident in our neighborhood that if someone were cutting through my or my neighbor's yard, SOMEONE would call the police. We had a guy who was just walking down the street a couple of months ago and he was digging through people's trash. Two or three people called the police on him. So, it begs the question...Not that blame would help solve the murder. Just another baffling thing in this case. :waitasec:

 

[Snick1946]

I think to some extent that neighbors are sometimes relunctant to call 911 on something they think will turn out to be trivial. Hindsight is 20/20 but had someone called police when seeing this, two lives may have been saved or at least he could have been apprehended. We are of course assuming that the guy in the composite was the perp.
Tapu, I spent many years reading and thinking about the JFK murder. Within the past several years I have come around to the idea that it was a one person job. I think what kept that thing going was the relunctance of anyone to want to think that the answer could have been that simple. An iconic figure was gunned down so there just had to have been a vast conspiracy. A president beloved by many simply could not have been killed by a pathetic bipolar young man. But I think he was.
Again I am not saying that some of the theories discussed in this thread are wrong. Just that we sometimes need to step back and keep looking.

 

[YellowDog]

Well now that I am over- or almost over- my bout with the flu, maybe it's time to give the thread a bump with a new thought or two.
I was discussing this case several days ago with someone who has studied and I think knows quite a bit about it. They pointed out something that took me back: Apparently there is no record of any of the neighbors ever seeing this POI being admitted to the home, he was seen cutting through yards, etc but never at the door or being admitted. Nor, was he seen exiting out the house, certainly not by the front entrance. He apparently was spotted by someone walking back to his car and driving off but not exiting that house.
I'd need to go back and reread the contemporary news accounts- I had thought he was seen being let in. Maybe one of our members can check that out and post your findings?
This person also noted that the side door, into the kitchen- could have been the point of entrance. This was just off the dining room, and the door down to the basement was in the DR. So it remains in the realm of possibility that the perp could have been an intruder who perhaps ran into Tom coming up from the basement and in a panic killed him. In other words this could have been a botched home robbery gone terribly wrong.
This is not what I personaly believe- but I am open to all possibilities. My personal opinion is that this was a planned calculated killing for reasons that we are as yet not aware of. It just reminds us that we need to keep open to all possibilities.

This also brings to the forefront the possibility that it could have been a neighbor.

 

[YellowDog]

Respectfully snipped from Astro Thread; Case Briefings Only

Yellowdog ... Tuba answered your question below; Does the chart indicate who was killed first, Shirlee or Thomas?

Tuba Said; " No, Yellow Dog but the housekeeper was in a hall and Thomas in a room. The chart does show she tried to protect him so she was undoubtedly "taken care of" first".

Thanks for the update Knox. I haven't been on that thread for some time now. I'll go there now and thank Tuba.

 

[Knox]

Let's go back to Tuba's chart ...

 

[moonlighter]

This person also noted that the side door, into the kitchen- could have been the point of entrance. This was just off the dining room, and the door down to the basement was in the DR. So it remains in the realm of possibility that the perp could have been an intruder who perhaps ran into Tom coming up from the basement and in a panic killed him. In other words this could have been a botched home robbery gone terribly wrong.
This is not what I personaly believe- but I am open to all possibilities. My personal opinion is that this was a planned calculated killing for reasons that we are as yet not aware of. It just reminds us that we need to keep open to all possibilities.

I can tell you one thing... from the people I know involved with this case, there is no side door only a back door and it is not at all near the diningroom and the stairs to the basement are not near the dining room either.

 

[YellowDog]

I can tell you one thing... from the people I know involved with this case, there is no side door only a back door and it is not at all near the diningroom and the stairs to the basement are not near the dining room either.

I wish we had a floorplan of that house so we could get a better visual idea of where the murders happened.

I thought there was a drive at the side of the house. Are you saying you must drive clear to the back of the house for the second door? Does the back door go into a center hallway or directly into the kitchen? I somehow picture the door into the basement being at the end of the center hallway at the far back part of the house under the stairway to the second floor.

 

[colette]

Interesting Knox, the chart sees the boy as the target. Now if so who would want to kill the boy? It still could be revenge on the parents by killing their son they loved. I still think the POI was seen looking for the address was the killer. But if that POI has nothing to do with the murders then was the killer a local boy/teen from the neighborhood? Good questions everybody.

 

[Snick1946]

Interesting Knox, the chart sees the boy as the target. Now if so who would want to kill the boy? It still could be revenge on the parents by killing their son they loved. I still think the POI was seen looking for the address was the killer. But if that POI has nothing to do with the murders then was the killer a local boy/teen from the neighborhood? Good questions everybody.

That's as they used to say, the $64 question! Was the POI the killer? If he was then clearly LE needs to concentrate on the revenge angle, etc. If he was not then that opens up the possibility of it being someone in the neighborhood. I assume LE covered this angle- but maybe not. I would be looking for an older teen or someone under 35 or so- maybe with mental health problems who lives in the neighborhood. This is a high end area so probably it'd be an adult or older child living with parents and having issues that keep them with parents. Maybe someone well controlled on meds who had some sort of issue with Tom. It shouldn't be difficult to determine if anyone living in that area fit such a profile but after seeing so many loose ends in this case, I wonder if it got looked at properly.
YellowDog, I can tell you that I have been told- the door down to the basement exits out at the side of the dining room. My Inlaws house is a short distance away and is laid out that way. I understand the kitchen is at the rear of the house with the DR in the front.
If by chance any friends or family are reading this thread maybe you can help in this regard.

 

[Snick1946]

I can tell you one thing... from the people I know involved with this case, there is no side door only a back door and it is not at all near the diningroom and the stairs to the basement are not near the dining room either.

I made my last post before noting your comment. Mine about the door to the basement being in the DR was based on information given me by someone who claimed to have been in that house. I accepted this because as I said my relative's home is set up this way.
Really I don't think the door placement has a lot of bearing on things. An intruder who was not the POI could have come into the home at any available point of entry.
Can you tell us, do you know where would Tom have exited when coming up from the basement?

 

[Knox]

Moonlighter Wrote - I can tell you one thing... from the people I know involved with this case, there is no side door only a back door and it is not at all near the diningroom and the stairs to the basement are not near the dining room either.

Moonlighter ... With all due respect, when you post it is mostly to say something another sleuther has posted is non-factual or wrong. Do you have information on this case to share with us, you make it sound as if you have an inside track?

Snick ... What about the family, were all siblings, if any or other close relatives cleared in this case? It's something I had not thought of before and since LE is being so quiet about the details and any progress made in this case... Maybe that's the reason? I feel the same as you, entry/exit points are relevant, but until we have a valid POI, meaningless.

 

[colette]

I can tell you one thing... from the people I know involved with this case, there is no side door only a back door and it is not at all near the diningroom and the stairs to the basement are not near the dining room either.

Moonlighter, what is your theory of the case?

 

[moonlighter]

Well, I am fairly well acquainted with an individual very close the case and basically all my info comes from one night of talking to them almost more than a year ago.

I think the killer was after Shirley.

Despite what most of you think, Shirley was there on her scheduled day, Thursday. From what I've heard Shirley's daughter had serious problems with her ex-boyfriend and drug problems, to the point where her and shirley's life was in danger multiple times in the past. So this viewed with the fact that witnesses saw her opening the door to this man, so it may have easily been a guy tracking her down at her work to confront her about something and it turned ugly, and unfortunately the hunter boy was a unfortunate bystander.

Also from what I was told they were both killed with kitchen knives from the home and they were left in the bodies.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the house.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Interesting theory, Moonlighter. You may be correct. For me personally, it's just hard for me to swallow the ex-boyfriend/drug addict possibility. The reason I am not leaning toward that possibility is because, in my opinion, if it was the rage-filled ex-boyfriend, I think there would be plenty of evidence pointing his way. Those spur-of-the-moment rage killings usually have a bit of evidence that connects to the perp. Also, if he was upset and wanted to confront someone, wouldn't it be the ex-girlfriend??? Not saying it didn't happen that way, but it's just not the path my suppositions have followed.

 

[moonlighter]

Interesting theory, Moonlighter. You may be correct. For me personally, it's just hard for me to swallow the ex-boyfriend/drug addict possibility. The reason I am not leaning toward that possibility is because, in my opinion, if it was the rage-filled ex-boyfriend, I think there would be plenty of evidence pointing his way. Those spur-of-the-moment rage killings usually have a bit of evidence that connects to the perp. Also, if he was upset and wanted to confront someone, wouldn't it be the ex-girlfriend??? Not saying it didn't happen that way, but it's just not the path my suppositions have followed.

From what I remember hearing Shirley had tried to intervene for her daughter in the past and was beaten or something like that by the ex-husband/boyfriend... I dont think I said anything about rage filled ex-boyfriend, I think its more like ex-boyfriend/husband tired of his ex-wife/girlfriends mom trying to keep him away from her. Drugs make people do really stupid stuff. I think could have easily paid someone off to "take care of her" maybe was just supposed to spook her but things went south. If it happens at some strangers house there goes any connection to the sherman side, and people focus on the hunters...


Im guessing OPD probably exhausted that angle though, thats just what I think.

 

[Snick1946]

Well, I am fairly well acquainted with an individual very close the case and basically all my info comes from one night of talking to them almost more than a year ago.

I think the killer was after Shirley.

Despite what most of you think, Shirley was there on her scheduled day, Thursday. From what I've heard Shirley's daughter had serious problems with her ex-boyfriend and drug problems, to the point where her and shirley's life was in danger multiple times in the past. So this viewed with the fact that witnesses saw her opening the door to this man, so it may have easily been a guy tracking her down at her work to confront her about something and it turned ugly, and unfortunately the hunter boy was a unfortunate bystander.

Also from what I was told they were both killed with kitchen knives from the home and they were left in the bodies.

Unfortunately I don't know much about the house.

I heard this about a year ago from a family member who is a 'prominent' local attorney and who in turn got it from someone down at the County Attorney's office. I also heard more recently- this is just heresay mind you- that the daughter's boyfriend/ex husband was checked out and cleared. He apparently took a polygraph.
There has been a lot of speculation about the knives, and if they were carried into the house or grabbed from the kitchen. If the later this points to a discussion or confrontation that went terribly wrong. Perhaps the visitor was someone sent to confront Shirlee about things she was saying or even to try to collect money to settle a drug debt. An argument ensued, maybe in the kitchen and things went ballistic. Tom just wandered up and was killed too.
We have aired all kinds of theories on this thread, a lot of them I do not personaly subscribe to. I guess what we are trying to do is keep this thing out there- one never knows, the truth is out there somewhere and someone may contact us who knows something. If you do a Google search with the names of the victims, you get several links to this thread. It is a very slow go and sometimes seems hopeless but some of us intend to hang in here.
Moonlighter your posts are always interesting and welcome.

 

[Skully]

Do I remember that Shirley had a large sum of money in her purse? If the person was there to collect drug money, why didn't they take her purse and ransack the house for any valuables? Just wondering?

 

[colette]

Moonlighter, thanks for your response. If it was Shirley's regular day to be in the residence it's possible she was the target. I just hope that LE has some evidence that will eventually solve the case.