GUILTY OR - Brooke Wilberger, 19, Eugene, 24 May 2004 - #2

[lostfaith]

Just some thoughts here. Now that there is a suspect being charged with Brookes disapearance and murder, maybe the caller (Brian) who called in the green van, might call back. I was thinking, maybe he was scared to call before, maybe he thought they might suspect him somehow. Some people are just wary of getting too involved for fear somehow they might get accused. Maybe now that he hears they have a suspect, he just might call in again. A little far fetched, but maybe!

I was also wondering, do you think that they could go back now and look at possible credit card transactions on that day. Might place him at certain gas stations or restuarants, get a better idea in which way he traveled.

I dont have time to go back and read tonight, so please bear with my laziness tonight. He made that call to the court at 1:15, what time frame do we have for Brookes disapearance? Was it close to that time?

I sure hope he does the decent thing and tell where her remains are. I am sure the family is happy the perp. is finally in custody, but I am sure if they could give her a proper burial, it would mean so much to them.

 

[Anngelique]

Well I guess when I read what you wrote I got the feeling she did something to make him drive a bit crazy which made someone notice the car it was near Rickreall. Thank goodness. And since you had mentioned McM I guess I assumed he would go straight ahead.

He probably gave her a swift blow to knock her out then, and I think he would want to do what he wanted with her and get her out of his car as soon as possible, don't you think? Now I'm not looking at the map, but if you cut from Rickreall to the coast wouldn't you encounter a more winding roadway and lots of trees, with gravel roads taking off and - gee I wonder if there are any little parks around? Like the little one by Sheridan on the S side of the Hwy.

Do you think he would bury her - he didn't know the area that I know of and he probably didn't have a shovel with him. He evidently didn't clean up the van very well. He probably has one of those careless personalities. The gal down south he had with him was naked when she ran out into the street to find help. Maybe Natalees clothes were in that van with her blood on them. And if there was evidence with luminol that there was a lot of blood thqat would be one way LE would be able to say she was dead for sure.

I'm sorry I'm rambling here - gees! LOL You get the mind trying to picture what could have happened and the next thing is that everything starts to pop out!


Scandi


EDIT: Well I got thinking. He didn't show up in court so maybe he didn't head for the coast. He had to get her out of the car and he had some trouble near Rickreall. Anngelique, is there anything around that area with a sign to it he might see that he would go to to put her - like a small park or a winery or something like that. A bridge? A river or pond? I don't think he went too far from R before he left her behind. He probably headed to Portland then since he didn't go to Newport. Anything unusual on that road
from R to P where you could hide a body?

Funny you would ask that. Tonight I went to my Dad's to get a CPU to borrow because I am having computer trouble and we have pretty much eliminated all other possibilities besides a new CPU. I borrowed one from my dad to see if I need to get a new one. Anyway, while in Dallas I went to see my Grandmother who just moved in with my Uncle. I stayed until past midnight and I was really tired. I took a back road that I thought took me right back to Hwy 22 but instead it took me to 99 . So I turned left onto 99 and went right through Rickreall until I hit 22 again and was able to go back to Salem. I thought it was so ironic I went that way being so tired after thinking about this most of the day. Anyway, like most of the Oregon roadways there is a lot of brush, would be a lot more in Spring compared to summer when it is drier, and there is a winery right in Rickreall. We had our class reunion there. There is the Polk County Fairgrounds and lots of farms. Not much else but normal brush and trees. I believe Mill Creek runs through there but it is not that deep. The only large ponds I can think of off the top of my head is the Dallas Reservoir, but you would have to know the area well to find that. If he turned left on Hwy 22 and headed towards the Ocean Beaches than that road has tons of smaller roads he could turn off of with thick fir tree growth. Heck the Van Duzer Coridor is very thickly wooded. There are so many logging roads right off of Hwy 22 or not far off. The trouble is if he knows the roads at all he could go in all kinds of directions as the back roads all interconnect. For instance, you can head towards Amity and McMinnville on 99 but then turn right and go towards Dayton, Dundee, Newberg. Or you could turn left on 22 and then turn off at Dallas and head towards Fall City, or pass Dallas and head towards Willamina cut back towards Sheridan or pass those and head towards Grand Rhonde and cut across to Hebo then head towards Tillamook. Heck, the list is endless. I could go on and on. You see that direction would make the most sense to me for getting rid of a body. It is a windy road, usually a lot of traffic though, BUT there is a lot of fishing right off the road in lots of different bodies of water and it is not unusual to see cars stopped on the side of the road. Just turning off for even the shortest of distance on 22 once past Dallas can bring you to dense forest and easy body disposal. I just can't imagine which way he went and what he was thinking. I hope the LE are able to piece it together and give us a very clear picture of what happened.

 

[scandi]

Thanks Anngelique,

It's like old home to me too. Working in Depoe Bay I drove into Salem at least once a week, often puttering in these small little towns.

The one town I've never been to is Rickreall. I wonder what the road is like from there up to Salem? Wouldn't that be a natural way to get back up to Portland if he had decided that was where he was going?

Somehow I feel this guy moves abruptly and is not cagy at all. I don't even think he would drive on side roads to avoid LE. I wish we could learn more about him. I think he must be a very scary guy. Imagine the thought of actually seeing a gal working, grabbing her in broad daylight and then dealing with her in the car while he was driving, evidently not afraid he might be noticed or caught with her.

I wonder if he realized he was seen when he kind of lost control of the car near Rickreall? I've been thinking too that it was an impulsive move he made to grab her and if he disposed of her body driving up through the backlands he most likely tucked her behind a tree somewhere out in the open. A quick impulsive decision, seeing a lone group of trees surrounded by brush up aways off the road. If he did this we might never find her as animals would carry her off.


I am wondering when we will hear more news on her case. Do you remember if Chandra was found out in the open or even buried? It was about a year I know before they found her remains.

Scandi

It is a truely scary thought to me living in Beaverton that guys like this and like Kim live here with their parents! Whooooooaaaa

 

[Anngelique]

Thanks Anngelique,

It's like old home to me too. Working in Depoe Bay I drove into Salem at least once a week, often puttering in these small little towns.

The one town I've never been to is Rickreall. I wonder what the road is like from there up to Salem? Wouldn't that be a natural way to get back up to Portland if he had decided that was where he was going?

Somehow I feel this guy moves abruptly and is not cagy at all. I don't even think he would drive on side roads to avoid LE. I wish we could learn more about him. I think he must be a very scary guy. Imagine the thought of actually seeing a gal working, grabbing her in broad daylight and then dealing with her in the car while he was driving, evidently not afraid he might
` noticed or caught with her.

I wonder if he realized he was seen when he kind of lost control of the car near Rickreall? I've been thinking too that it was an impulsive move he made to grab her and if he disposed of her body driving up through the backlands he most likely tucked her behind a tree somewhere out in the open. A quick impulsive decision, seeing a lone group of trees surrounded by brush up aways off the road. If he did this we might never find her as animals would carry her off.


I am wondering when we will hear more news on her case. Do you remember if Chandra was found out in the open or even buried? It was about a year I know before they found her remains.

Scandi

It is a truely scary thought to me living in Beaverton that guys like this and like Kim live here with their parents! Whooooooaaaa

If you drove from Depoe Bay to Salem then you drove right by Rickreall. When you are at the junction of Highway 22 and Highway 99 then that is Rickreall. Rickreall has only a couple hundred people and one tiny store, (not much of a store, not sure what you call it). They have a fairgrounds and a winery and a farm store that even sells tractors. I can't think of much else in Rickreall. All you have to do look to your right on your way back towards Salem look to the right at this junction and you have just seen Rickreall. :crazy:

 

[spydog]

It's sad to think that if Dave's phone had not gone out, she may have been found before it was too late.

 

[mysteriew]

As law enforcement officials prepare to prosecute Joel Patrick Courtney in the death of Brooke Wilberger, detectives investigating other homicides and violent crimes in Oregon and across the country are reviewing their cases for similarities.

Authorities in Corvallis and Albuquerque, N.M., each recently have fielded calls from law enforcement agencies after Corvallis police said they had charged Courtney with kidnapping, rape, sodomy, sexual abuse and aggravated murder in the death of Wilberger.

Corvallis Capt. Ron Noble said he and detectives in his agency had taken about five calls since the news of Courtney's new charges broke Monday.

The calls came from agencies in Oregon and in other states, Noble said, declining to be specific.

Kari Brandenburg, the district attorney for Bernalillo County, N.M., in which Courtney is being prosecuted, said she took one call this week from a detective in the Pensacola, Fla., area. Courtney previously lived in Florida.

In one Oregon traffic-citation case, Courtney gave an officer a Cocoa Beach, Fla., address.

Brandenburg isn't ready to call Courtney a serial killer or a rapist, but she wonders whether he may have been involved in other sexual assaults or disappearances.

His criminal history includes convictions for attempted rape and escape in 1985 in Washington County.

And both the New Mexico and Wilberger cases, authorities say, included sexual penetration, occurred during daylight and happened to victims of similar age

"The same crime, the same M.O., the victims are similar," Brandenburg said. "What we've got is two indictments with criminal sexual penetration and one conviction. Obviously there's a pattern."
http://159.54.226.83/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050806/NEWS/508060319

 

[scandi]

Thanks Anngelique,

Last night I was reading an article from KTVU from Aug 4th and it was an interesting one. It showed pictures of this perp in his younger years and mentioned that officers immediately saw signs of a struggle when they went to the scene of Brooke's kidnapping. I had never heard this before.

Scandi

 

[fran]

I have a feeling we haven't heard the last of this guy's crimes! :behindbar

JMHO
fran

 

[concernedperson]

I have a feeling we haven't heard the last of this guy's crimes! :behindbar

JMHO
fran

Ditto. They have a pattern even if it is irregular. Can't discount one crime to fit another anymore they are trying to be ingenious and deceiving. Which is typical in criminal behavior. Blow smoke and see where it lands....i.e. Duncan the worst of the worst lately.

 

[mysteriew]

Probation officers initially had trouble keeping tabs on Joel Patrick Courtney following a Washington County sex-abuse conviction in 1985, but he eventually fulfilled all of the requirements of his probation and was released from supervision in 1994.

Police say Courtney, the 39-year-old Rio Rancho, N.M., man charged with the rape, kidnapping and murder of Brooke Wilberger in May 2004, had a relatively unremarkable criminal record until November, when he was arrested in Albuquerque and accused of kidnapping and raping a University of New Mexico foreign exchange student.

While on probation following the 1985 sex-abuse conviction, Courtney absconded supervision for more than three years, but seemingly got his life together when he returned to Oregon in 1991, a Washington County probation officer recalled.

"There just wasn't any indication that this guy would be a high risk when he got off supervision," said Bob Severe, the manager of the sex offender supervision office at Washington County Community Corrections.

With Courtney now charged in at least three more cases involving violent crimes against women, some people wonder how Courtney's — and Wilberger's — story might have been different if mandatory minimum sentencing and sex-offender registration were in place in 1985.

In addition to New Mexico and Oregon, Courtney is said to have lived in Alaska, Florida and Mexico.

Courtney did not surface in Washington County until 1991
During the years Courtney absconded supervision, 1987 to 1991, he went to Mexico and was fishing in Alaska, Severe said. He worked as a commercial fisherman in Alaska and spent the off-season south of the border, Severe explained.
http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2005/08/07/news/community/local01.txt

 

[scandi]

Hi,

Just coming over to say Hi to everyone! :blowkiss: Any more news? Wouldn't you love to be a little bug buzzing around the Corvallis police station?


Scandi

 

[Anngelique]

Could this be Brooke? HMMMMM....


http://katu.com/stories/78919.html

August 9, 2005

Autopsy to be conducted this week on body found in Salem

SALEM, Ore. - A badly decomposed body was found near the Willamette River in Marion County, authorities said.
Investigators could not determine the identity or gender of the body, said Kevin Rau, a spokesman for the Marion County Sheriff's Office.

They also don't know if the person died from violence.

"(It's) suspicious in that we don't know how the person died," Rau said. "No reason to believe it's criminal, but no reason to believe it's not. So we're treating it as if it is."

A couple riding all-terrain vehicles along the river near a private duck-hunting club and farm discovered the body Sunday. The sheriff's office removed the body from the scene Monday afternoon after spending hours looking for evidence.

An autopsy will be conducted this week.

The body was found in a brush-covered area near the east bank of the river by Terry Holder, 46, and Shannon Glass, 39, who have lived on the property for about five months.

Glass said she immediately realized that the body must be human, because it was wearing a shoe and sock on one foot. A bra or bikini top also was in the area, she said.

"It wasn't a good thing," Glass said. "I'm kind of glad that we found her, though; she's somebody's somebody."

Glass thinks the body is that of a woman because of the articles of clothing she saw. A mother of two teenage daughters, Glass said she feels sad for the woman and her family, and nervous that a body was found so close to where she lives.

The club and farm, called Greenway Beautification Inc., have been on the site for about four decades, said Denny Nielsen, one of the owners.

 

[Usher737]

I doubt this is Brooke. Her flip flops were found at the scene and I dont think she was wearing socks. Hopefully, this body will identify another missing woman.

 

[Anngelique]

I doubt this is Brooke. Her flip flops were found at the scene and I dont think she was wearing socks. Hopefully, this body will identify another missing woman.

Very good point! I should have known that. I do hope they find who this is.

 

[scandi]

Hi,

It just goes to show us though that hope does spring eternal. Eventually Brooke's remains will be found just as this lady has been found after all the time it took to decompose so badly.

Tha Salem area off the road that runs along the river and ends up in the downtown area would be a good possibility for a body to be put if you had not planned this ahead of time and were limited by not having what you would need to bury a body.

I had this strange thought that maybe he took her on to Beaverton with him as he knows this area well if his parents live there. Then he could find a secret place to put her that would be difficult to find. I still think he is impulsive as heck and has planned very few things in his life before he did them!

No news in the local papers with further information????? You'd think we would have heard something more by now. Oh well, every time I come to the forum this is where I check in! LOL


Scandi

 

[Anngelique]

Hi,

It just goes to show us though that hope does spring eternal. Eventually Brooke's remains will be found just as this lady has been found after all the time it took to decompose so badly.

Tha Salem area off the road that runs along the river and ends up in the downtown area would be a good possibility for a body to be put if you had not planned this ahead of time and were limited by not having what you would need to bury a body.

I had this strange thought that maybe he took her on to Beaverton with him as he knows this area well if his parents live there. Then he could find a secret place to put her that would be difficult to find. I still think he is impulsive as heck and has planned very few things in his life before he did them!

No news in the local papers with further information????? You'd think we would have heard something more by now. Oh well, every time I come to the forum this is where I check in! LOL


Scandi

LE is being very tight lipped. They are not letting out anything they have. Also it was said he would have to be tried in New Mexico before being tried here. I want to hear more and the silence is hard to take. At the same time at least they are not leaking a lot of misinformation like we experienced in so many other high profile cases. Hugs Scandi!

 

[LazyCat08]

I have been on vacation and missed this development.
I feel so sad for Brooke and her family and the family of this monster who has been charged with her murder. Brooke was such a beautiful girl, I can't imagine what she went through.
It seems pointless to say it again, but I just cannot even fathom what drives people to this kind of behavior???
This man has a wife and children whose lives will also no doubt be destroyed by what he has done.....
Of course I would love to watch this guy burn :furious: in hell - I'd like to push the button myself, but I know that's not necessarily the solution either.....

 

[Anngelique]

http://katu.com/stories/78964.html

August 10, 2005

Accused killer Joel Courtney wants access to law library

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - A Rio Rancho man indicted on 19 counts of aggravated murder, kidnapping, rape and sodomy in Oregon wants a judge to give him access to the jail's law library or set him free to use the public library.
Joel P. Courtney, 39, has been held without bond in the Bernalillo County Metropolitan Detention Center here since November on an unrelated rape and kidnapping charge.

He was indicted a week ago in Benton County, Ore., in the disappearance and presumed death of Brooke Wilberger, 19, a Brigham Young University student who vanished in Corvallis, Ore., in May 2004. Her body has not been found.

Courtney is fighting extradition to Oregon, where he could face the death penalty.

Last week, metro court Judge Sharon Walton of Albuquerque gave Oregon officials 30 days to file extradition papers, though the deadline could be extended to 90 days.

On Tuesday, Courtney filed a request in state district court asking for a public defender to represent him in his effort to get daily access to law books or "release from custody to seek access in a public arena."

He contends the jail isn't allowing him sufficient access to its law library, which he said he has been to once in his eight months behind bars.

Capt. Heather Lough, a spokeswoman for the jail, said Courtney is being held in segregation, so guards must escort him to the library, which must be cleared of other inmates while he's there.

"Arrangements are being made for him, but it requires extra effort," Lough said.

The jail, in a recent court response to another inmate upset about library access, documented 700 inmates on a waiting list for books and computers there.

Courtney is charged in Albuquerque with raping a University of New Mexico foreign exchange student six months after Wilberger vanished. He is accused of forcing the UNM student into his car at knifepoint and tying her up shoelaces before raping her.

 

[scandi]

Thank you Anngelique for the article. I bet this guy wants to be set free to have access to the public library! That is almost sad it is so funny. He can't be very smart, which actually might be a good thing. Let him make a fool of himself now in the media and it will probably help the case for the prosecution. Not crazy, just demented and a bit slow.

Gee, I'm hoping the mental abilities of this guy will be an aid in finding where he put Brooke. Kinda stupid, not dumb, and impulsive, not a planner. Suddenly he wants to see what his rights are in the law books where they show what happened to perps in cases similar to his. Maybe he'll read that the only guys that did well were the cases where perps cut a deal for no death by giving LE the body.

After today's disastrous events in Tennesee with this guy escaping with help and a correctional officer losing his life in the foree, I seem to think that if they take this guy to the library they'll be sitting on him till he finds what he is looking for or until the cows come home. Whichever is sooner!



:blowkiss: Scandi

 

[scandi]

Anngelique, I've been wondering how your relative who was so sick and up at OSHU or Shriners hospital. I hope everything is well with him - your nephew, right? I have thought about him so often and even pictured you driving up to the hospital and going to visit.

xoxoxo Scandi