OR OR - Kelly James (dead), Brian Hall, 37, Jerry Cooke, 36, Mt. Hood Climbers, Dec 2006

[BigTex]

It is ultimately their decision to do this sort of thing (the climbing). The big problem I have is that when people take risks, and something goes wrong, then the people who have to rescue them are put at risk. Remember the helicopter that crashed while trying to rescue the other climbers?

The people who work in SAR know that there are risks involved in many of the locations they have to work in. This is a necessary risk of the job that they are well aware of I assure you. One could argue that when people build houses in forests that have naturally reoccuring forest fires (that the forest itself depends on) and cause us to send wildlife firefighters into protect mere property that they are putting far more lives in danger because they wish to live in the forest. What about our Coast Guard who in ONE average day conducts 90 SAR ops, assists 117 people in distress and saves 15 lives - should we ban personal boating to alleviate the possibility that one of them might be injured or killed doing their job? Our society allows us to pursue personal freedom and our society bears the costs of those freedoms knowingly else we as a society would have outlawed the activity. Do we not allow people to eat as they like and yet our health system supports the costs of this poor diet? Do we not still allow smoking even though it is a proven fact it contributes to numerous health problems? God forbid we still allow motorcycles and cars that can exceed the speed limit. Your arguement is certainly a valid one from your point of view but I would argue that the reality is that the majority of our society disagrees with you or we as a people would have put a stop to it.

I still think they were foolish. And I will never in a million years understand why anyone would do anything risky (this included). One poster said something about their children being grown...so I guess then it's okay to do these things...but the one guy had a child that was 12. He's a baby.

I think that each of us pursues life in our own ways. For some this means spirited debate that excites our mind and forces us to think in new ways or strengthens the belief in old ways and yet others are drawn to the physical challenge presented by sport (the adjective extreme is a matter of opinion) - and of course some do both. I like to run and ride road bikes (not motorcycles - but like the Tour de France) and the feeling of being out on my own with my heart pounding in my ears while I push my personal limits is not something I can even put into words. If you have ever crested a hill on a long run just as the sun breaks through and you can see miles and miles of unmatched beauty you would know what I mean. I have ridden my bike 100 miles in a day and then layed in the grass exhausted but filled with the glow of empowerment - if I can do that then I can do anything. These things make me a better person and are important to who I am.

I don't know what the situation was up on the mountain and I would not presume to judge if these guys were foolish. They got caught in a bad storm and paid a terrible price - what more is there to say?

-BigTex

 

[scandi]

You are welcomw Scandi. I didn't get to see the interview with Mrs. James toninght. Do you know How I can find out how it went and what was said?

I didn't see it either LionRun, heck - now I know I've been here waaaaay to long! lol

Someone here will know though. Scandi

 

[Ca-Sun]

You are welcomw Scandi. I didn't get to see the interview with Mrs. James toninght. Do you know How I can find out how it went and what was said?

LionRun and Scandi, here is the link to the interview with Karen James. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/21/eveningnews/main2291454.shtml

 

[LionRun]

Thanks Ca-Sun

 

[Buzz Mills]

Back to the thread topic:

Crews search for yellow 'anomalies' on Hood
Searchers on Mount Hood took advantage of a break in the weather this afternoon to continue to look for two climbers missing for 12 days.

Hood River County Deputy Matt English said two small teams of searchers left from Mt. Hood Meadows and Timberline Lodge ski areas to scout out yellow “anomalies” seen between 7,500 and 8,500 feet during an airplane flyover today.

“We’ve had our airplane up for a while, and we’ve marked some spots we’re going to look at,” he said. However, the spots were confirmed to be from a rock.

No operations were scheduled for Friday, English said. But the
sheriff’s office is following leads and processing information from the investigation.

The missing mountain climbers, Brian Hall of Dallas, Texas and Jerry “Nikko” Cooke of New York City, are presumed dead.

http://www.oregonlive.com/newslogs/...e_oregonian_news/archives/2006_12.html#218242

 

[czechmate7]

With all the talk going on about climbers and GPS, I thought this might be of interest. It was posted on CC by Iain, a member of the SAR team.

Hope some find it helpful:

Questions continue to be asked about the Mount Hood Locator Unit (MLU) after every search like this last one. Some of the media somehow still confuse them with PLBs and cellphones, and I have been asked to outline the program, so this is just to reiterate what the MLU does.

Availability-

REI, OMC, and the Mountain Shop all "rent" MLU transmitters to climbers. They are also available 24 hrs a day at the Mount Hood Inn at Government Camp. The rental shops test each transmitter in front of the climber renting it. Records are kept on battery life. A $5 rental fee covers the expense of this.

History-

The MLU program began back in 1986 in the wake of one of Mt Hood's largest tragedies, where a large group from the Oregon Episcopal School became trapped near White River Canyon, resulting in 9 deaths. It took three days to find the unmarked, buried snow cave, and by then it was too late for 7 of the kids and 2 adults.

The Mountain Signal Committee built and tested the technology, then went through the Oregon legislature to get enabling legislation to use the system. Currently the USFS and Clackamas County Sheriff control the system.

The MLU Transmitter-

MLUs are small VHF transmitters attached to a sash. When the "ripcord" is pulled and the MLU activated, it sends out a tone at 168.54 mHz. These transmitters are not monitored full-time. Once a rescue is initiated, PMR will do an initial sweep of the mountain for an MLU signal. There is a check box to say you are carrying one on the sign-in sheets at Timberline, but frequently PMR will do a scan just in case you forgot to check the box, or if you didn't register.

The MLU system is essentially a wildlife tracking system. During testing, MLU transmitters have been picked up 20 miles away. Transmitters deep in crevasses or under many feet of snow have been easily detected. However, line-of-sight rules apply. PMR can't find a signal on the opposite side of the mountain, behind a ridge, or deep in a canyon. The signal will also "bounce" off wet rock walls, making it confusing for the searcher at times.

Should you use one?

There is no doubt the MLU takes the "search" out of search and rescue. It has been used successfully in several winter operations on Mt. Hood. The technology, now 20 years old, still works well. It is not perfect, but it remains a powerful tool for PMR.

Carrying an MLU does not guarantee a rescue. Sometimes accessing your location is impossible due to weather, avalanche, rockfall, etc. However, it does allow all energy to be focused on accessing your location and getting you out of there, rather than trying to find you first, which as you have seen can take days.

Many climbers feel it is inappropriate to take technology along that replaces self-sufficiency. Many climbers do not bring cellphones with them for this reason. This is an understandable personal choice climbers make. Climbing is often viewed as an opportunity to escape society. This message is simply to let people know the MLU still does its job well, and if you wish to rent one, it is available as a tool for you to use, and will be used to find you if you get in trouble on Mt. Hood.

Wow... what a wonderful device...do you have any stats on how many rescues have been successful because of it?

 

[Ca-Sun]

Wow... what a wonderful device...do you have any stats on how many rescues have been successful because of it?

Great question. I'd be interested to know too, but I've not seen any stats on successful rescues due to the MLU

 

[scandi]

Thanks Ca-Sun, That was really touching to see what he did with his glove. And the way she explained how that meant Here I am, It's time to go home.

Did you read the comments below that article? Amazing how many people barked at Katie for even doing the interview. It was awfully quick. The funeral for him was just yesterday.

I think Katie Couric needs to take lessons from KatieCoolady, with her style and great passion. Oh, I am wicked tonight, but I do think we met someone here in Coolady who could someday be much bigger than Couric. Scandi

 

[AlwaysShocked]

This is written from the perspective of a surviving significant other of a climber who perished "doing what he loved best": http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_survivors_1.html

 

[dark_shadows]

I'm still trying to grasp what went wrong. At first it was said that these 3 men were experienced climbers, and the note they left at the ranger station was interpreted to mean they had sufficient gear to last through a storm or 2. But then when the pictures were developed from the camera, the news reports said they were lightly equipped, and it was determined they couldn't have survived that long in the freezing weather.

It seems they didn't have sleeping bags to keep them warm, sufficient food (preferably dried to be light-weight - oranges are heavy!), and they didn't rent a $5 gps locator that could have saved their lives.

I am so sad for the families of these men to lose them so close to Christmas. I'm sure it will taint the holidays for them for many years to come.

If anything positive is to come from their deaths, I hope it will awaken other climbers to the dangers, and that they will be more prepared for the unexpected. There is no time of year that snow storms can't happen in the mountains. I'm in California, and I've seen snow fall in the Sierra's in July.

Hi Pepper,
Thank-you for your post. I appreciate it.
Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[scandi]

I thought I read there were 11 rescue missions on Mt Hood last year. I'll check.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Originally Posted by Pepper
I'm still trying to grasp what went wrong. At first it was said that these 3 men were experienced climbers, and the note they left at the ranger station was interpreted to mean they had sufficient gear to last through a storm or 2. But then when the pictures were developed from the camera, the news reports said they were lightly equipped, and it was determined they couldn't have survived that long in the freezing weather.

It seems they didn't have sleeping bags to keep them warm, sufficient food (preferably dried to be light-weight - oranges are heavy!), and they didn't rent a $5 gps locator that could have saved their lives.

I am so sad for the families of these men to lose them so close to Christmas. I'm sure it will taint the holidays for them for many years to come.

If anything positive is to come from their deaths, I hope it will awaken other climbers to the dangers, and that they will be more prepared for the unexpected. There is no time of year that snow storms can't happen in the mountains. I'm in California, and I've seen snow fall in the Sierra's in July.

The climbers decision to do a lengthy Thursday/Thursday night layover at the Tilly Jane warming hut may not have seemed like much at the time, but in hindsight, it probably became the fatal decision.

Remember they were traveling fast and light, with only enough supplies for probably two days, and then they only hike up about 3,000' on Thursday, probably arriving at the Tilly Jane warming hut while it was still Thursday morning. To only climb 3,000' and then lay around and consume a high percentage of your existing supplies, with the real climb still ahead of you, in hindsight, was a very unwise decision, which certainly helped set the table for the tragedy that was in front of them.

Yes, they needed either an MLU, or a PLB, and a fully charged cell phone, preferably one utilizing GPS. Anything to up the odds of coming back when attempting a climb of this magnitude at this time of the year.

 

[SewingDeb]

From AlwaysShocked's link:

Joe used to say he was as likely to get killed in a car crash as on a mountain, and many climbers still echo that sentiment. But according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, approximately 42,000 people in the United States are killed every year in motor vehicle accidents. Out of a population of 281 million, that's approximately one death in 6,700. When I ask Steph Davis, a 30-year-old climber from Moab, Utah, who has tackled some of the biggest walls in the world, how many of her friends have died in climbing accidents, she counts eight. American alpinist Mark Twight, 41, says that 43 people he's known have died climbing. Over the past 15 years, Joe Simpson has lost, on average, a friend a year to the sport. How many people have lost that many friends to car wrecks?

 

[Buzz Mills]

From AlwaysShocked's link:

Joe used to say he was as likely to get killed in a car crash as on a mountain, and many climbers still echo that sentiment. But according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, approximately 42,000 people in the United States are killed every year in motor vehicle accidents. Out of a population of 281 million, that's approximately one death in 6,700. When I ask Steph Davis, a 30-year-old climber from Moab, Utah, who has tackled some of the biggest walls in the world, how many of her friends have died in climbing accidents, she counts eight. American alpinist Mark Twight, 41, says that 43 people he's known have died climbing. Over the past 15 years, Joe Simpson has lost, on average, a friend a year to the sport. How many people have lost that many friends to car wrecks?

SD, it might be better to look at this in percentages. I would think climbers run a very high risk of injury. Insurance rates would tell the tale. I know what I pay for car insurance, and I know that mountain climbing insurance is probably not available, or if it is, it would be extremely costly. Mountain climbing risk is added onto the risk of driving--it's not an either/or.

 

[SewingDeb]

This is written from the perspective of a surviving significant other of a climber who perished "doing what he loved best": http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_survivors_1.html

What a fascinating article. I just read all 7 pages and wanted to thank you for posting the link.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Great question. I'd be interested to know too, but I've not seen any stats on successful rescues due to the MLU

An operating MLU, or PLB, is as close to a guarantee, that you will be found, as you can get. Without one, it can be akin to looking for a needle in a haystack, especially if you are down in a crevasse, and out of sight. The weather also has to cooperate to rescue you while you are still alive.

 

[scandi]

I have just been searching on the web and have found nothing. I read a lot of interesting things though, and the Rats {full name ?} group from Portland were formed in 1928 when a rescue needed to be done on Mt Hood. Lots of great info on Mt McKinley in Alaska, the highest mountain on the continent, and even harder to climb than Everestt, well at least the coldest. LOL

Buzz, you're a whiz with statistics. Do you know where to look?Scandi

 

[BigTex]

Bit confused here as I have seen several posters talking about GPS. A GPS receiver would not have assisted the searchers in any way. GPS devices do not transmit as the simply triangulate the position from the signals from the satellites in orbit above us. I strongly doubt the climbers would have benefitted much from the GPS in whiteout conditions anyways. The MLU device would have worked to locate them but given the fact that the weather prevented any sort of rescue for the first 4-5 days it is highly unlikely they were still alive to use said device. The fact of the matter is the minute the weather turned they were in dire straits.

-BigTex

 

[Buzz Mills]

I have just been searching on the web and have found nothing. I read a lot of interesting things though, and the Rats {full name ?} group from Portland were formed in 1928 when a rescue needed to be done on Mt Hood. Lots of great info on Mt McKinley in Alaska, the highest mountain on the continent, and even harder to climb than Everestt, well at least the coldest. LOL

Buzz, you're a whiz with statistics. Do you know where to look?Scandi

What are you looking for Scandi?? That's the Hood River Crag Rats. If you are looking for successful rescues where an MLU, or PLB, is used, you probably won't find stats--the reason--the hikers/climbers aren't ever lost to the point where a major search and rescue effort needs to be undertaken. The signal tells where they are.

They say, that if a climber is down in a crevasse, or in a narrow canyon, they may get some signal reflection, but that isn't a major problem, because the original source of the signal will be located relatively quickly. They may need to micro-engineer them to make light enough so that climbers won't reject them based on their weight, or size.

 

[Hms]

I think that each of us pursues life in our own ways. For some this means spirited debate that excites our mind and forces us to think in new ways or strengthens the belief in old ways and yet others are drawn to the physical challenge presented by sport (the adjective extreme is a matter of opinion) - and of course some do both. I like to run and ride road bikes (not motorcycles - but like the Tour de France) and the feeling of being out on my own with my heart pounding in my ears while I push my personal limits is not something I can even put into words. If you have ever crested a hill on a long run just as the sun breaks through and you can see miles and miles of unmatched beauty you would know what I mean. I have ridden my bike 100 miles in a day and then layed in the grass exhausted but filled with the glow of empowerment - if I can do that then I can do anything. These things make me a better person and are important to who I am.



-BigTex

Great Post!
I really commend you for being able to find something that brings you such happiness! There's no better feeling then self accomplishment. Your post made me want to go for a jog! I rarely find posts that touch me and yours did!