OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - #17

[eyes4crime]

How do we even know the white truck was one like step-mom's (dad's)?

There are many different kinds of trucks and do you know how MANY white trucks there are? White is probably one of the most common colors for a truck.


JMO

You're so right, we have no idea; there are a gazillion white trucks. However, it's being discussed as if it might be the same one, so I thought to throw it out there for discussion. moo mho

 

[GrainneDhu]

Please tell us that b**ch was fired!!! It makes me sick to think of the bullies that masquerade as teachers!!!

Oh, and God Bless your mother!!!!

Thank you--my mother continues to be the brightest blessing in my life. I tease her and say "if only the good die young, you'll live forever!" but I treasure every second I spend with her.

Times were different back then. It was legal and acceptable for teachers to administer corporal punishment to pupils. Beating a child would have raised an eyebrow but would not necessarily get a teacher fired.

One of the other little girls in the class went home crying that day and her mother organised the rest of the parents of children in that class to ask for the teacher to be disciplined. Not even fired because back then, that would have seemed like a huge over-reaction.

After that, she left me and the other child alone. We were like invisible kids but that was better than being picked on.

The school did decline to renew that teacher's contract for the following year, which was pretty unusual.

 

[Pensfan]

Welcome to WS, Rexy!

 

[seeking truth]

Because the school called 911 upon discovering that they couldn't account for Kyron, doesn't mean they told the Hormans that. The Hormans may have been enroute to the school, expecting Kyron to be there, then arrived to find out that the school hadn't located him, but instead called 911.

Whereas a number of articles have said Terri called 911, I've been unable to find anything from the LE statements/documents that supports that. I generally rank LE statement/documents higher so far as accuracy/reliability than articles. That's why I think, despite the news reports, that Terri did not actually call 911.

We also have Kaine's email in which he said the Hormans called 911 "in concert" with the school. I'm not sure (physically) how one would do that. Perhaps upon reaching the school, the secretary with the Hormans on speaker phone called 911? I don't know.

I'm still chewing all this over, now that we've put more of the pieces all in one place.

I think we can put together a timeline for this time period, which would at least give us points at which we can say we know this person was here, we know this person called that entity, etc. It helps me to look at things on a timeline because whereas it won't tell me what did happen, it usually tells me a few things that couldn't have happened, and helps me get a better feel for what is most and least likely to have happened.

BeanE,

I see what you mean about the Hormans possibly not knowing that Kyron was not found at the school until they reached there.

As for the 911 call being placed, the way the wording is in Kaine's message, I have to say it reads like he is trying to cover for not making a call himself. "In concert" with is too ambiguous, in my opinion, and I think that was the point. In reality, if the Hormans were told 911 was called when they arrived at the school they wouldn't have to call themselves. As you say, maybe the 911 call was placed by the school (secretary?) with the Hormans standing right there.

As for a Time Line, do you create a separate, enduring thread for this? I haven't been around here long enough to know how you guys do this. It sounds like a wonderful way to gather information and then find all the verification possible.

Thank you for continuing to respond to my posts and for answering my questions.

 

[human]

1. As far as the white truck, it would seem impossible that it was the family's that early Sat AM.

I live in the country, but not in that state. However, my area is very much like the familiy's, but not as heavily wooded as we had a fire in the early 1900's that took out the old growth trees.

I have lived on my 1/2 mile street for over 30 years and I "know" every neighbor on my street who have lived here longer than I or at least 10 years.

We have about 12 houses on the street. I know my next door neighbor's cars on either side and another couple neighbor's. One in particular because they have several cars of one make that are no longer manufactured that they love.

I know a couple of friend's cars that live further away from me. That's it.

The driveways here are mainly not as hidden as those in the family's area.

Since the family's driveway is hidden by vegetation, I doubt if many people know the vehicles.

2. Background checks- where I live it costs $20 for the average background check.

We had a program in my school where a parent could be hired in my classroom very very short hours at minimum wage.

They had to have a background check that they had to pay for. I would pay for it as their job paid so little and the parents were poor.

I tired to send a check to the school district, but they told me that the parent had to pay for it. Then I would send cash.

I told the parents that they had to be completely honest on the application and put down any criminal stuff.

I know that certain criminal activities would not count. Non-violent would not disqualify them from working.

One mother lied and said she did not have criminal (I knew that she did). The school district called me and said that the mother had lied on her application , but no more info.

I talked to mother and she said that she did not mention it because she thought a misdemeanor would not count.

It didn't, but the fact that she lied, did.

3. More on background checks. I have a different job now, and one of the things is to help parents with different issues.

A mother had a juvenile felony (she said anyway) and could not get housing because all landlords do background checks which cost $35 and are refunded if the person is accepted into their housing.

She was denied and said that she couldn't understand as the felony shouldn't have showed up because she was a minor.

I asked her if I could look into it.

I called our LE and asked them if I could come down there and pay to have the report run to see what the problem was.

They said, "No. Mother would have to do it."

OK. So where should we go?

LE said that first I would have to find out where the felony occurred.

I asked if I found that out, could they do it.

No. They could not.

They said that I should get a copy of the housing report, because (and I am not making this up), the housing can get a better report than they can.

Whether this is true or not, I have no idea. It's my first year doing the job that I am doing.

 

[redkatrampant]

1.

Even my almost 10 year old Honda has sensors that give warnings that something is going wrong with my car.

Over the 40 years of owning cars and we were poor and young, I never had a car die in the driveway. On the road, yes. Somewhere else, yes.

But it was no surprise, even before the days of sensors. I was just praying the car would keep going before it died .

Most mechanical things in a car give warning before they go. Your starter doesn't usually just quit one day. It does erratic stuff. Same with the water pump.

Nope most don't die in the driveway but if you hear noises you might prefer to have them come and get it rather than drive it again and take the chance.

ot but we did have our motorhome tranny go out as we pulled in the drive after a trip over to Rainier, Wa last summer. Very unusual and we were thankful. No noises or any warning. The tranny cable broke and we would have had to have a tow if it had happened at any other point in the trip.

This may be totally unrelated, but let me tell you I have had some clunkers. And I can remember 2 that died in the driveway. For that matter my mom's brand new avalanche did that same thing. So I would not count that out. My newish Volvo had a check engine light on for weeks, there was not a thing wrong with it. So these things DO happen without any warning.

 

[raeann]

How do we even know the white truck was one like step-mom's (dad's)?

There are many different kinds of trucks and do you know how MANY white trucks there are? White is probably one of the most common colors for a truck.


JMO

That's what I was realizing when I was doing my count of them today. What is a truck exactly? A pick up? a bigger size work truck? does a cargo van count? what about SUVs? Lots of my friends who drive them call them 'the truck' but I do not consider them to be trucks. The truck we own is a small Ford Ranger, not easily confused with a Ford F150 if someone saw it. Why does the sighting of the random white truck mean anything more than the one of the grey or black truck with the Kyron look alike inside? Or the small VW on video with a Kyron look alike. There is little chance that ANY of these have the slightest relationship to Kyron's case. LE has obviously ruled all of them out, as there has been no mention of them or request for followup by others who may have seen such vehicles.

jmoo

 

[raeann]

This may be totally unrelated, but let me tell you I have had some clunkers. And I can remember 2 that died in the driveway. For that matter my mom's brand new avalanche did that same thing. So I would not count that out. My newish Volvo had a check engine light on for weeks, there was not a thing wrong with it. So these things DO happen without any warning.

I have known more than a few people who drove home one night just fine, then went out in the morning to find they could not start their car. Just the other day, a neighbor's nice NEW car left their driveway on a flatbed tow truck.

 

[carole]

Seriously, do you know how many white trucks there must be in the area? No one in the family appears to be blond. If was SM's truck, don't you think someone would have notice her disappearing at 2 am? I'm not seeing any of this as coincidence.

I didn't see anything in any article about the white truck about the driver being blond.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

That's what I was realizing when I was doing my count of them today. What is a truck exactly? A pick up? a bigger size work truck? does a cargo van count? what about SUVs? Lots of my friends who drive them call them 'the truck' but I do not consider them to be trucks. The truck we own is a small Ford Ranger, not easily confused with a Ford F150 if someone saw it. Why does the sighting of the random white truck mean anything more than the one of the grey or black truck with the Kyron look alike inside? Or the small VW on video with a Kyron look alike. There is little chance that ANY of these have the slightest relationship to Kyron's case. LE has obviously ruled all of them out, as there has been no mention of them or request for followup by others who may have seen such vehicles.

jmoo

Eyewitness reports are inherently unreliable in any event. They may have both said white but completely different makes or models, we just don't know. Once, my girlfriend and I walked in on burglars in my home--they ran out, jumped in a car and drove away. I told police it was a white 4 door sedan; she claimed it was a dark green SUV. Go figure.

 

[TrialAddict]

This may be totally unrelated, but let me tell you I have had some clunkers. And I can remember 2 that died in the driveway. For that matter my mom's brand new avalanche did that same thing. So I would not count that out. My newish Volvo had a check engine light on for weeks, there was not a thing wrong with it. So these things DO happen without any warning.

O/T I had the same problem. It was my gas cap. I know that sounds dumb, but if it is at all off the check engine light will come on. I was told to make sure to click it about 6 times when replacing it after getting gas.

 

[scandi]

:cat:
I have been wondering the same thing James. There are a lot of questions that have not been answered. I would think the new media would have looked in to that right a way. That is one of the first questions I would have asked. In fact I think I did mention that in one of my posts. Are we allowed to call the school and ask questions?

Hi Lilcatt, The school doesn't answer their phone but uses an answering machine.

Both KOIN and KPTV have excellent investigative reporters who ask lots of questions and dig to find out everything they can. I heard Mike Donahue with KOIN say he had asked LE repeatedly for info only to get 'No Comment' answers. They have had a hard time breaking this barrier but have certainly tried to learn everything possible they think is important to the case. Mike is a great example of the quality of reporters in Portland :
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/aboutkoin/kointeam/story/Mike-Donahue/7JEqabC0z0ChYt8L_W70Hw.cspx

 

[eyes4crime]

When the news was originally broadcast one witness stated a woman was driving it and that she was blond.

SoCal - pretty sure when we were informed of the truck, the witness said a 'woman' was driving it. The blond part came from a link of child predators (sex offenders) put on this site - one of which had long blond hair and was cross dressed. A 'he' looking like a 'she'. Somehow, many remember a woman with blond hair driving the truck. not quite so as I remember it. moo

 

[cluciano63]

Is it odd that Tony Phipps, the convicted sex offender arrested in St. Helens for allegedly trying to grab a fifth grader on his way home from school a few days after Kyron disappeared, and who I had read was registered in Lane County on the Oregon Sex Offender registry, is apparently no longer listed on said registry when I just checked it.

He is still in jail in Colmbia County...seems he would have been moved to Multnomah is they felt he is involved? Not sure why not in a data base for SO's...

 

[pdx]

Why? To go there twice, the woman or those driving the white truck had to know it was a dead end.

Just jumping off from your post, not commenting specifically on it.

I recommend that anyone interested in the Jim Kelley truck report do what I just did... bring up the map (linked in my sig) and do a google street view drive through from Cornelius Pass Road to the pin marking his house.
It involves crossing a one lane bridge and making several turns; it's hard to believe someone would go that far accidentally. The road is unimproved (I thought I had read 'private road' initially, but the oregonlive story says 'dead end) and heavily wooded. When you reach his property, you can see why he and his neighbor would be suspicious of any unknown vehicle being down there.
It's not a place, IMO, where you'd go to make out, smoke out or get privacy. I'd be more concerned with getting run off with a shotgun if I drove down there and didn't belong.

IMO, there are also many other, more private places nearby that a person who didn't want to be seen could go.

Is it odd that Tony Phipps, the convicted sex offender arrested in St. Helens for allegedly trying to grab a fifth grader on his way home from school a few days after Kyron disappeared, and who I had read was registered in Lane County on the Oregon Sex Offender registry, is apparently no longer listed on said registry when I just checked it.

He has subsequently been arrested and charged with not registering, including in the town of St Helens (where he may have had a proper residence before being homeless. One print report said that he was known to LE in town, and lived on the outskirts of town.


ETA this good post

Thinking about the white truck that was seen at 2am. I'm surprised that nobody has come forward to say, 'hey that was me.' It seems with all the attention it got, IF the person that drove down that dead end road at 2am had a reasonable explanation... they would have come forward to calm the public who are all so worried about what happened to Kyron.

ETA this good post ^^. It's hard to imagine that there's anyone left in the area who hasn't heard of this situation.

 

[seeking truth]

How do we even know the white truck was one like step-mom's (dad's)?

There are many different kinds of trucks and do you know how MANY white trucks there are? White is probably one of the most common colors for a truck.


JMO

I don't think WE DO know. I bet Law Enforcement knows, though. And if they don't know yet, I would venture to guess that they are in the process of having that information gathered right now.

My opinion

 

[scandi]

BeanE,

I see what you mean about the Hormans possibly not knowing that Kyron was not found at the school until they reached there.

As for the 911 call being placed, the way the wording is in Kaine's message, I have to say it reads like he is trying to cover for not making a call himself. "In concert" with is too ambiguous, in my opinion, and I think that was the point. In reality, if the Hormans were told 911 was called when they arrived at the school they wouldn't have to call themselves. As you say, maybe the 911 call was placed by the school (secretary?) with the Hormans standing right there.

As for a Time Line, do you create a separate, enduring thread for this? I haven't been around here long enough to know how you guys do this. It sounds like a wonderful way to gather information and then find all the verification possible.

Thank you for continuing to respond to my posts and for answering my questions.

Hi SeekingTruth, I still find it strange no one showed up at the school for the talent show in which Kyron had a part. At 1pm they had no idea he was missing even tho he had been marked absent. I do believe if any of the family had shown up we'd have read about it.

 

[belimom]

I'm split on the 911 call:

1) If I theoretically was going to commit a crime like this, one of my main concerns would be the 911 call that I would need to make. I totally suck at acting, and would be worried about pulling it off while trying to sound genuinely shocked/upset/afraid. Plus, hanging out here, I'd know that my 911 call would be made public and would be heavily scrutinized. Therefore, part of my plan would have to include finding a way for someone else to make that 911 call for me... Just food for thought here. :twocents:

2) OTOH... my heart stopped beating once and I (obviously) started to pass out. I was having a vagal down (similar to someone passing out when they see a needle). Miraculously, it started back up again. DH was unreachable at work, so I was able to call a neighbor immediately, who said she was coming over and for me to call 911 immediately. I told her that I felt stupid calling 911. While I was starting to list my reasons, she said, "I'm doing it now - see you soon." And hung up. She called 911 for me b/c I was hesitant to. Just more food for thought...

 

[Jaxson]

Does anyone know if the neighbors were interviewed & said their house was searched or did the press assume it? Just wondering if investigators went into their house to talk to them vs. searched. Interesting either way.

It appeared to me from watching the video that Media was 'staking out the Horman's and witnessed the truck being removed and the neighbors home being 'searched' however I don't think it was said that the house is occupied. Just the home across the street was being 'searched' as media termed it. I would be interested in knowing if someone does live there and if not did they find evidence of some sort of surveilence.

 

[cluciano63]

See what no new info is doing? Same questions and debates making the rounds, about the time last seen, the "substitute", the 911 call, the white truck...enough to make you nuts or me anyway...