OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #11

[BeanE]

A school district counseling hotline is available for anyone needing advice or support at 503-916-3931.

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/


From their homepage.

Thanks. I could really use some counseling on this case right about now.

 

[dimples37398]

Well I am not sure what is really going on in this case and what they do know or don't. I definitely have my own opinion of the SM's actions from what we have seen only, but everyone is different and I don't expect everyone to react the same.

The one thing that does give me hope, is that the Stepdad is a police officer/detective, and it seems he has been for quite a while. I trust that if there is anything off with the SM's story at all, that he will pick up on it, and talk to authorities. I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't say something if he does end up having suspicions about anyone.

What I think of the SM's actions won't change anything that has happened or will happen. I choose to keep my opinion on her to myself, and let everything unfold as it will.

 

[seeking truth]

Police should always be professional and courteous when dealing with the public. But their job is to remain objective, maintain law and order, and investigate crimes. They are not social workers or victim advocates, nor should they try to be. There job is to INVESTIGATE, not sit around and pat people on the shoulder saying "there-there, honey" and protect them from legitimate questions from the press.

Exactly. I'd also like to say that if Law Enforcement does this for one family then it should be done for all. But, as you state so clearly, CharlestonGal, the police are investigators, not social workers, not professional victim advocates (beyond being an advocate for the obvious victim; in this case: KYRON). They can involve those people, make referrals to those people, but in no way, especially when they sit in the home of the victim, should they BE anyone other that professional investigators.

How can anyone other than Kyron be a victim at this point? Since we are being told nothing, then the crime against Kyron could be ANYTHING and ANYONE besides Kyron could be guilty of the crime against him!

If he did wander off and no one is to blame, then that means that LE doesn't have to arrest anyone. That's great, but what if they have been protecting the perpetrator all along, though unwittingly?

Just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Looks like the press is starting to snipe:

"If any significant clues have come along, they're not talking about them. They did say that some disclosures could hinder their efforts, but didn't disclose what types of information such disclosures could hinder."

Snip

"At one point, Search Commander Diana Olsen did say that, because so many possibilities had been ruled out, that it allowed them to focus more on areas that had not been ruled out. However, she did not say what actually had been ruled out."

Snip

"The FBI has placed Kyron atop its "Most Wanted" list, to help spread the word. He now gets higher billing than notorious FBI criminals like Osama Bin Laden."

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/n...yron-Top-Priority/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx

 

[Wendy101]

Simple question here:

Have they used CADAVER dogs yet?

Please, a yes or no and a link for proof.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

Thanks for the correction, BeanE! I'm going to post the link:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/n...d-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx?rss=1100

It is a statement from a school official. NOT LE! That was my bad!! It does confirm there were no substitutes on the grounds that day.

I have not read anything to say there were volunteers at the school that day, but it is not unreasonable to think that there were volunteers.....nor is it unreasonable to think that a second grader would assume that a classroom volunteer was a substitute, except if his actual teacher remained in the classroom all day. That didn't explain my thoughts well, let me try again.

I was Class Mom for a fourth grade class one year. When the teacher had to "step out" for a short time, such as to judge projects in a science fair, I sat with the class during her absence. The teacher never left the school grounds, I was not paid to sit with the class, and all the students knew I was a mom.......but those kids were two years more school savvy than 2nd graders!

As class mom, I also accompanied the students and teachers on occasion---to the gym to see older student's science fair projects, or on field trips. In both of those situations, I was expected to help the teacher keep a head count of students. I do believe this child when he says he saw Kyron---he has multiple witnesses to verify that Kyron was indeed at school that morning. I also believe that the child could have overheard a volunteer saying "We're missing Kyron."

While semantics may not be important, I do think if a volunteer told the teacher a child hadn't returned to the classroom, it is "possible" the teacher did not pay as much attention to her as she would have to another paid teacher----regardless, we do know that there was no actual substitue in the classroom that day, and so far, we don't know (at least I don't!) that there were unpaid volunteers in the classroom.

RE: BBM Above; Hope this helps!

It was not clear, however, whether Kyron, like every other student in the school, then participated in a classroom-to-classroom inspection of other science projects.

Parent-led groups of about four students walked among the classrooms, said Gina Zimmerman, president of the Skyline PTA.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/search_for_missing_portland_bo.html

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Simple question here:

Have they used CADAVER dogs yet?

Please, a yes or no and a link for proof.

That question has been asked at a PC and answer was "no comment".

So we don't know.

 

[CharlestonGal]

ok...I give up. LE and the media are doing a fabulous job. The public doesn't need to know anything about this except that Kyron vanished from school. And there is a massive search being conducted to find him. The time he went missing doesn't matter, or the circumstances or if LE feels this is a lost child or an abducted child.

And, so I'm not accused of being on a witchunt.....hugs and kisses to SM.

:angel:

There, there, Amster. You'll be just fine if you don't look over there. Pretend it's like the times when you were a little kid and you just knew you were about to see the boogey man on a movie so you covered your eyes in advance. If you don't look at it, it's not there. Right? Right?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

"People" need to investigate her, or law enforcement needs to investigate her?
Why do you think LE has not investigated her?

If it is that obvious to us (and every idjit writing on message board and media comments all over the web) don't you think it would be obvious to the people who do this for a living/career?

I'm just sayin'... just because WE do not know and can not find out all this information doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Believe, I understand the frustration, and I am no apologist for the LE (all agencies here have made big mistakes over the years) but the idea that just because we do not have the information = the information does not exist doesn't make any sense to me.

I hope they are.I assume they are looking into everyone.They appear to be.But we don't really know.They are not telling much.I don't know if that is a good thing or not.I feel it hurt Somers and Haleighs case.But that is just the way I feel.They are trained and know what they are doing alot better than me.I am very curious what the FBI thinks what happened.I just pray they find this little boy.It's very sad.Each day that goes on I get sadder for Kyron.My heart does go out to the family.I pray they are not still looking for him 27 years later and never knowing what happened to him.

 

[mysticrose]

Throwing this out as having two familiy members in Law Enforcement growing up, one was PD and then became lead detective for our local PD and is now retired and the other was PD for the small town I live in now .... If you only knew how much stuff I got away with because I was the niece, shared the last name. As soon as LE heard or saw my lastname I was pretty much free to go with only a warning ... Thank god I wasn't some pysco child that took advantage of it .....

I wish we knew if the dogs picked up Kyron's scent somewhere. I am baffled because of the intense searching going on, I guess because I do not feel he is out there.
I would think by now if he was dogs would have found him, I just dont think he is out there. I think someone took him from that school via vehicle.....moo of course

 

[BeanE]

Witchunt? If LE wants the focus taken off the SM because it's impeding the search for Kyron.....then it's really very simple. Don't even need a presser....just release a statement saying the SM had absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of Kyron. Until they do, I see no reason not to suspect everyone who had contact with Kyron.

Perhaps releasing that would make the real perp less relaxed, less apt to slip up, and that's the sort of reason they're not releasing that the SM is cleared.

LE has, however, repeatedly assured us that the entire family is fully cooperating. That tells me that if they've asked to search their house, they've said yes. That if they've asked them to take polys, they've said yes. That if they've asked them to stand on their heads, they've said yes.

LE obviously, via the liaison today, wants the witchhunt of the SM to stop. I'm sure they wish for her sake they could release a clearance for her. But of course, they know their first obligation is to protect Kyron.

 

[CharlestonGal]

To anyone's knowledge, has a missing child ever been atop the FBI's most wanted list? Or anywhere on it, for that matter? Ever?

What is up with this?

 

[thumbtack]

There, there, Amster. You'll be just fine if you don't look over there. Pretend it's like the times when you were a little kid and you just knew you were about to see the boogey man on a movie so you covered your eyes in advance. If you don't look at it, it's not there. Right? Right?

Yeah, I'm not getting why people are so defensive about LE behavior. You are just asking questions & merely stating that you hope LE remains objective.

Is this a sleuthing site?

 

[darlin gal]

Simple question here:

Have they used CADAVER dogs yet?

Please, a yes or no and a link for proof.

Dogs deployed

Canine units, including tracking dogs trained to search for one particular person, have worked every day looking for Kyron, officials said.

Air scent dogs also have been deployed, said Russ Gubele, president of Mountain Wave, an emergency communications and search and rescue group based in Gresham. They're trained to find a human being -- anyone -- in a particular site.

Searchers also have access to cadaver dogs, but Gubele wouldn't say whether any have checked the fields or the school. He also wouldn't say whether dogs have searched the school, but Gates said search teams have checked Skyline extensively several times.

It's not unusual to search the same areas twice or more, Gubele said. "It's good practice to check and recheck," he said, "just in case something was missed, especially in the bad weather and darkness."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_searchers_press_o.html

 

[scandi]

Yes, but is there any reason to believe he is not?

No, but the poster said she thought he was getting too close which would mean their might be some emotional involvement involved, which would be the last thing an officer should have.

Have we learned if anyone has been ruled out? I thought I read in the last 10 or so pages that they are still looking at everyone.



ETA: I thought it was usually the FBI who had a laison officer that worked and was with the family. On Criminal Minds it isn't ever the local LE who have a laison stay with the family. xox

 

[raeann]

6. Because their house is a mess 'cause they've been on Kyron's thread for a week. :doh:

OMG.....can you see that through my windows????? I better go vacuum right now!

 

[Emma Peel]

^^ That. Not that I've observed a lot of these cases, but it certainly stands out as less-professional/more-personal.
Not that I can blame him for it, or say that I'd be different.
Possessive. That's what I see (it IS the speculating hour of the day where we editorialize everything, isn't it?)

I've been thinking about the "our boy" thing - asked myself why it doesn't bother me. (Never occurred to me...until my posting partners brought it up.)

Upon self-analysis I think it's because I've never felt the "our boy" was the LE rep inserting himself into the family. Rather, because he IS an LE rep, I interpreted this as the term that all LE currently has adopted on this case - "our boy" refers to their victim - Kyron.

I don't know why I thought this way from the get-go, I just did.

Maybe because I have so many brothers, who are all adult now and they talk all "coach-y" like quite frequently with the kids they do volunteer work with, etc. "our boy" "our girl".

The collective "our".

I know, my head's on goofy. :crazy: But FWIW I'm sharing. :blushing:

 

[Cubby]

No, but the poster said she thought he was getting too close which would mean their might be some emotional involvement involved, which would be the last thing an officer should have.

Have we learned if anyone has been ruled out? I thought I read in the last 10 or so pages that they are still looking at everyone.

I have not seen word from LE that any individual person has been officially ruled out. (there is a link on the previous page with what I think is a newer media article indicating such).

 

[CharlestonGal]

No, but the poster said she thought he was getting too close which would mean their might be some emotional involvement involved, which would be the last thing an officer should have.

Have we learned if anyone has been ruled out? I thought I read in the last 10 or so pages that they are still looking at everyone.

If they have ruled anyone out, they are not telling. I believe the last word on it was a week ago when the sheriff said (paraphrased), "Everyone is of interest to us."

I went back to the beginning of this case this morning and found it very strange that in the first day or so LE had no problem giving information. The time SM and Kyron were at the school, that SM left at 8:45, that Kyron was seen by the south entrance after that, that the teacher had marked Kyron absent. It was pretty standard at the beginning. Then something happened that brought all information sharing to a halt. They wouldn't even answer the same questions they had freely answered before.

Something happened a day or two into this investigation, but I don't know what it was.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Perhaps releasing that would make the real perp less relaxed, less apt to slip up, and that's the sort of reason they're not releasing that the SM is cleared.

LE has, however, repeatedly assured us that the entire family is fully cooperating. That tells me that if they've asked to search their house, they've said yes. That if they've asked them to take polys, they've said yes. That if they've asked them to stand on their heads, they've said yes.

LE obviously, via the liaison today, wants the witchhunt of the SM to stop. I'm sure they wish for her sake they could release a clearance for her. But of course, they know their first obligation is to protect Kyron.

BBM. Why would they think the real perp and/or Kyron would still be within 2 miles of the school?:waitasec: