OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #14

[Kimster]

BTW, if you guys want to know about specific laws as the case moves on, let me know. I am a "verified local" and know government officials in different realms. It's cuz of the work I do, which I'd rather keep anonymous but Tricia knows all about it.

 

[scandi]

That kid, poor thing, for his caretakers to allow him to be on tv saying stuff that will eventually probably be disproved.

Indeed, I think some of the stuff that he's said has already been disproved... can't recall right now, though.

What I wonder is how he could see all of this...such as seeing the parking lot well enough to see Terri driving away, when the parking lot is on the other end of the school building. At 8:45, when Terri supposedly left Kyron walking toward his building, Tanner would have been in his classroom of somewhere close by, because the final bell had just rung and kids were in their classrooms being divided up to tour the science fair.

I don't know. When I heard it I thought he was probably just arriving at school when he saw her drive off. Who knows, and how to get that info is an even bigger question. xox

 

[hoppyfrog]

Mods have deemed the SM's FB page off-limits for discussion. Please respect this.

Thanks.

Hoppy
mod

 

[Skully]

Yes, because if SM left him at 8:45am, surely someone would have seen him before the 9am alleged sighting. To me, this whole case comes down the the minutes after 8:45. And yes, what kid looks at the clock to check what time it is. I think if LE wants people to help with memory and such, they should at least come out and give and official and confirmed timeline.....this is too sketchy......15 minutes is a long time when it comes to abduction... As we have seen here, Kyron was there one instant and gone the next......I don't know why on earth they would not do that when they are asking for memories of that day........I have seen on one report, stateing in one sentence sm was last to see him and then further down the paragrah, last seen at 9am. This is bad reporting, the media should also get FACTS before reporting such contradictions.....cant find link now

Thanks for the reply, this is why I am now thinking it is someone who worked at the school, but maybe called off that day. If they were there, just to drop off their own kid, and were looking for that opportunity to get one off the property, this was the day to do it. No one would think twice about seeing that person in the hall with Kyron, and if they weren't a teacher but an Aid, or Janitor, a coach, a team leader, a cook, a grounds keeper, Kyron wouldn't think twice about leading him or her a hand. I am just trying to think of ways this kid disappeared in front of an entire school, at the busiest day of the year and no one noticed anything out of place.

 

[Wendy101]

This link was found by Jersey Girl, but I'd like to throw out this discrepancy....according to some reports thus far, Kyron was seen by the South door (thus causing some of us to wonder if he was taken out or left on his own out that door). However, according to the school's handbook, that door would have been locked (page 7). Obviously, that could have been part of any 'lax' policies taking place that day, but it's worth noting.

http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools/skyline/files/school-skyline/Parent_Handbook_2008-Final.pdf

Our public school doors are locked on the outside, but can be pushed open from the inside. no one can get in from the outside, unless someone pushes it open for them.
Now, if this is true, it had to be planned prior to Kyron opening the door - IMO - he knew someone would be waiting for him there.
I would say IF Kyron left from that exit, he would have had to push that door open himself. Now, LE says not a stranger - so he pushed the door open in order to leave with someone who was waiting for him.

 

[scandi]

I never heard that. Do you have a link?

I know his interview is on a video as a poster referred to it. Which one, I don't know.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Locked doors in my experience are still operable if a person is already inside the building and are going outside.

It is a fire safety issue. There were many fires in public buildings in the past where victims were found in front of locked doors. In most states, places like schools and theatres are now required to have one way locks on all doors to the outside while the building is in use.

 

[buffetoflies]

That's a good point, but wouldn't that enable any child to just leave the building at any time -- just like it's possible Kyron did (voluntarily or involuntarily)? No alarms on the doors for that very purpose? Maybe I'm too safety conscious since I have relatives in military intel...LOL.

Yes, it does enable the kiddies to just wander off, but for most kids it wouldn't occur to them I don't think, or they have a schedule to stick to, and for the ones that try to, you'd think somebody would notice and bring them back. Sadly no one noticed kyron.

At my school only one set of doors was unlocked, forcing everyone that stops by to sign in and go past a greeter. It was also like that in the HS so the upperclassmen who could drive wouldn't leave in the middle of the day and try to sneak back in.

 

[Lavender]

Hello! New here.

I wanted to say something about the ABC article that many people are quoting. The reporter, Russell Goldman, has published at least two on-line articles using the same ambiguous sentence: "He was last seen by his stepmother, walking toward his classroom 150 feet away." (Sources: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/parents-missing-kyron-horman-hope/story?id=10891582 and http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/suspected-sighting-kyron-horman-missing-boy/story?id=10898522)

Unfortunately, this can be taken two ways. Some are reading it to mean that Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron. However, it could also mean that this was simply the last time Terri Horman saw Kyron and does not eliminate the possibility that someone other than Terri Horman saw him later.

I think this kind of ambiguity is poor writing and poor journalism. If the journalist has reason to believe that Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron, then the journalist should have clearly stated that and then have backed it up by crediting a source. Russell Goldman doesn't cite a source for his ambiguous remark.

I think a much more reliable source is Sheriff Dan Staton who has been quoted as saying that the last person to see Kyron was a student at the school who saw Kyron at 9:00 a.m. on June 4, 2010, near the south entrance to the school. Here are the 2 supporting sources:

SOURCE #1:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Date of Source:

Sunday, June 06, 2010, 10:00 PM, updated Updated: Wednesday, June 09, 2010, 11:01 AM

Significance of Source: This article cites Sherrif Staton as the source of the information.

During police interviews Sunday, a student said he last saw Kyron later that morning near the south entrance to the school. That was the last time the boy was seen, Staton said.

Significance of this quote:

Sheriff Staton establishes the LOCATION: "near the south entrance to the school".
Sheriff Staton establishes WHO saw Kyron: "a student"


SOURCE #2:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_may_have_s.html

Date of Source:

Saturday, June 12, 2010, 9:30 PM

Significance of Source:

The Oregonian specifically quotes Sherrif Staton as the source of the information and states that the quote was supplied by Staton on Saturday.

Once notified, Multnomah County authorities responded swiftly, but crucial hours already had been lost, Sheriff Dan Staton said.

"This is what is hugely disturbing to me," he told The Oregonian on Saturday. "The fact that you had a child in school and the last time the child was seen is at 9 in the morning -- there are concerns about that lag time. If the child had walked away from the school, the likelihood of finding him under those circumstances would have been extremely high.

"After five hours," the sheriff said, "you know as well as I do how far a child could walk on a roadway."

Significance of quote:

Sheriff Staton establishes TIME of the last sighting: 9:00 a.m.

Putting it together:

In both quotes, Sheriff Staton is commenting on the last sighting of Kyron. By combining the information from both quotes, I believe that Sheriff Staton is confirming the who, where and when of the last known sighting:

Time: 9:00 a.m.
Where: Near the south entrance to the school
Who: A student (therefore the reference is not to Terri Horman)

 

[krazyfingerzz]

It worked for Drew Peterson for a long time and still working for Craig Stebic.

This was a really, really narrow window of opportunity. Because of Kyron's age, the search began immediately. There was no real question as to when he went missing (well, 8:46-whenever school let out). Unlike cases where adults go missing, or even teens, like Kayleah, the focus narrows really quickly with kids. Of course, it is completely possible that LE was bamboozled and didn't look hard enough at alibis from the get-go. It's also possible with such a very extended family and school community, the POI is someone just outside of the immediate family. I'm finding it hard to believe that LE would have gone to such lengths, searching, if they had some idea of who was responsible. On the other hand, I suppose if you're going to focus on an immediate family member, time restrictions taken into account, the search area being so specific would make sense. How far could the POI go to dispose of a little boy and still be back where they needed to be without drawing attention? And then I remind myself that all of this happened during the day, with many, many potential witnesses. I can't see the responsible party being someone whose whereabouts would be questioned so intensely.

 

[cdan]

If you have not viewed this yet:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_wraps_up_a.html

The single most important question to me, that was answered emphatically:

Do you need to find Kyron to make an arrest?
Sherriff answer: NO.

Another observation: The reward is for information leading to Kyron’s location only.

They know who did this, or the reward would include “for information leading to the arrest of the person’s responsible for his disappearance.

 

[pufnstuf]

PORTLAND -- The lead officer in the investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance vowed to stay on the case until it’s solved.

“This process is not over… we as a team are resolute in bringing Kyron home. This will not become a cold case for us,” Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates promised during a Monday morning press conference.

snip/

“We are still moving forward,” he said.

more: http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Police-Kyron-Horman-wont-become-cold-case-96312034.html

 

[Quiche]

I'm wondering if LE reviewed video and pictures taken by all the Science Fair attendees? Kyron may have been caught on other folks' cameras... I'm praying hard for this little guy.

Thank you all for your efforts on his behalf, and I absolutely love the tree frog tributes!!

 

[Skully]

Suppose this is a case like Staynor and Hornbeck, two children taken by a molestor, then when they got a few years older the molestor wants ANOTHER young boy. In the Staynor case, Parnell (the perp) used Steven to help lure the younger boy. I wonder if there are any "single" fathers in that area, raising a young man by himself?

I've started looking through the "missing" young boys in Oregon and Washington for the past 10 years, assuming the perp has an age preference, in this case 7 or so. It seems when the one captured child begins to mature, it's time for another.

I don't know if these if a workable hypothesis or not, but if anyone wants to help, I haven't gotten to Washington State yet, I'm only halfway through the missing from 2000 onward of young boys around 7, give or take a few years.

This is a good working theory, I have heard this about another case. What was the boys name that the mom got photos of her son sent to her? He said he had to get other kids for his perp as he began to age. But how do you know who is a single parent there? LE or school or neighbors may know, but we can't bring in unnamed people or innocent bystanders......We have a way of sleuthing them to death here... Kidding, really, I want to stay.

 

[Sly Scorpio]

FYI:
Some people have looked this "expert" up on google. Not hard to do. Some feel his substance-abuse, his fired and tarnished status with the force, and his refusal to cooperate with an internal investigation casts doubt upon his value as an expert. :waitasec:

No big deal really. There are lots of other "experts" who are not "emotionally involved" waiting in the wings to chime in.

In fact, if you put your ear to the ground, you can hear them stampeding this way. :angel:

In my opinion, these would be the same people who show their badge to get a free meal when on or off duty?

I know what you mean now, I didn't realize all of that about this person's past. Also, I can see where some people might want to get their 5 minutes.

 

[krazyfingerzz]

That kid, poor thing, for his caretakers to allow him to be on tv saying stuff that will eventually probably be disproved.

Indeed, I think some of the stuff that he's said has already been disproved... can't recall right now, though.

What I wonder is how he could see all of this...such as seeing the parking lot well enough to see Terri driving away, when the parking lot is on the other end of the school building. At 8:45, when Terri supposedly left Kyron walking toward his building, Tanner would have been in his classroom or somewhere close by, because the final bell had just rung and kids were in their classrooms being divided up to tour the science fair.

BBM, but that's an excellent point. It all goes back, perhaps, to LE not wanting the kids to talk. How can one believe what Tanner said about what happened in class when it's very unlikely that he could see SM go to the car without Kyron? That grandmother may well have tainted a few things by letting little Tanner talk. Looking at the pics of outside and inside the school, I really cannot imagine how Tanner could have seen Kyron's mom leaving without Kyron. Going down the hall, sure, but leaving? It begins to seem like elaboration.

 

[BeanE]

That kid, poor thing, for his caretakers to allow him to be on tv saying stuff that will eventually probably be disproved.

Indeed, I think some of the stuff that he's said has already been disproved... can't recall right now, though.

What I wonder is how he could see all of this...such as seeing the parking lot well enough to see Terri driving away, when the parking lot is on the other end of the school building. At 8:45, when Terri supposedly left Kyron walking toward his building, Tanner would have been in his classroom or somewhere close by, because the final bell had just rung and kids were in their classrooms being divided up to tour the science fair.

Oh come on. The only thing 'disproved' is that the child used the word 'substitute' to refer to the person who was not the regular teacher.

He never said he saw anybody driving anywhere.

Let's not start vilifying a child.

 

[raeann]

Mods have deemed the SM's FB page off-limits for discussion. Please respect this.

Thanks.

Hoppy
mod

This off limits does still apply to juveniles such as the child who gave the interview and is being accused of lying, and the numerous comments implicating the step brother.....off limits right?

 

[pdx]

The Horman house is tiny. Only 1400 square feet. I would guess that there isn't room for guests there, and even if there were, I really doubt that Desiree would want to stay there.

And only one bathroom.. no way!

One has to wonder why LE did NOT instruct or strongly encourage her to change these settings at the outset.

LE has commented (er, Shulz, when giving the family answers to the emailed media questions) that this is the first time any of these local agencies have had to deal with the fall out of social media and mass quantities of internet postings (oregonlive.com, various facebook pages etc).

I think it's never had to occur to LE previously. I'm sure this will be a new instruction to victim families they will work with going forward.

I know his interview is on a video as a poster referred to it. Which one, I don't know.

The video with student Tanner (desk mate) is on the KATU website; there is probably a direct link to it in the Kyron Media thread.

 

[Skully]

Hello! New here.

I wanted to say something about the ABC article that many people are quoting. The reporter, Russell Goldman, has published at least two on-line articles using the same ambiguous sentence: "He was last seen by his stepmother, walking toward his classroom 150 feet away." (Sources: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/parents-missing-kyron-horman-hope/story?id=10891582 and http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/suspected-sighting-kyron-horman-missing-boy/story?id=10898522)

Unfortunately, this can be taken two ways. Some are reading it to mean that Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron. However, it could also mean that this was simply the last time Terri Horman saw Kyron and does not eliminate the possibility that someone other than Terri Horman saw him later.

I think this kind of ambiguity is poor writing and poor journalism. If the journalist has reason to believe that Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron, then the journalist should have clearly stated that and then have backed it up by crediting a source. Russell Goldman doesn't cite a source for his ambiguous remark.

I think a much more reliable source is Sheriff Dan Staton who has been quoted as saying that the last person to see Kyron was a student at the school who saw Kyron at 9:00 a.m. on June 4, 2010, near the south entrance to the school. Here are the 2 supporting sources:

SOURCE #1:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Date of Source:

Sunday, June 06, 2010, 10:00 PM, updated Updated: Wednesday, June 09, 2010, 11:01 AM

Significance of Source: This article cites Sherrif Staton as the source of the information.



Significance of this quote:

Sheriff Staton establishes the LOCATION: "near the south entrance to the school".
Sheriff Staton establishes WHO saw Kyron: "a student"


SOURCE #2:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_may_have_s.html

Date of Source:

Saturday, June 12, 2010, 9:30 PM

Significance of Source:

The Oregonian specifically quotes Sherrif Staton as the source of the information and states that the quote was supplied by Staton on Saturday.



Significance of quote:

Sheriff Staton establishes TIME of the last sighting: 9:00 a.m.

Putting it together:

In both quotes, Sheriff Staton is commenting on the last sighting of Kyron. By combining the information from both quotes, I believe that Sheriff Staton is confirming the who, where and when of the last known sighting:

Time: 9:00 a.m.
Where: Near the south entrance to the school
Who: A student (therefore the reference is not to Terri Horman)

Welcome to WS and thank you for that well thought out post with all the quotes and support!