OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #8

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

The same kind that could pull a child off of a very busy street afterschool that was busy with adults and children from a neighborhood. They all knew Somer, or knew of Somer. And he risked it all to take her. Right there in the middle of after school hustle and bustle.

This is true. I was thinking the difference could be that this person would have to be "braver" due to the fact they where incased by the school walls not walking on a sidewalk were they could excape easier.:waitasec:

 

[lillygator]

are there normally lots of letters to the editor?

 

[pdx]

The ANG used infrared/heat detection earlier in the search. They aren't using it at present.

snip

I think that the most telling comment to come out of the conference today was the admission that they are no longer using infrared in the search.

There's a big difference between 'not using it at present' and 'no longer using it', wouldn't you agree?

I'd have to re-listen to the PC to catch his specific words.

 

[Calliope]

Hi neighbor
There was some discussion in yesterday's thread about whether or not the media is required to back off at LE request (they used to, in the good old days)... IMO, and you know what a small town it is here, if they want to keep good access for the future, they play ball appropriately when requested. Obviously, there is journalistic interest in the case, mostly caused by our own curiosity about what on earth could have happened here, but if there is nothing to tell that will *help the case*.. maybe the newsiesare using common sense.

You probably noticed, as I did again this morning, that the Oregonian hasn't run a single letter to the editor on this. With all the discussion about this case, that's.. interesting, to me.



Um, this *is* the new search protocol, and it's a vast improvement.. the Mult Co Sheriff is positively moved by the outpouring of support and coordination under this new protocol.
Due to the terrain, I believe it would have been pointless to have too many bodies on the ground. It's not flat, and there were limited areas that are even possible to search/get to within the 2 mile radius.
IMO, the search *has* been massive; now it's more massive.

Also, as indicated by the search commander, they have to pace themselves too. Throw everything they have into it all at once and what happens later when they need those people to continue the search?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The ANG used infrared/heat detection earlier in the search. They aren't using it at present.

The most modern infrared can "see" up to 12 miles and isn't as affected by foliage as earlier infrared was. (source - Wired Magazine, Nov 2009)

I think that the most telling comment to come out of the conference today was the admission that they are no longer using infrared in the search.

Weren't they first working at night when he first went missing? Since they didn't even discover he was missing until around 3:45 pm by the time they loaded up and got the helicopter up in the air it would be getting dark. So I believe that is why they used the infrared then.

Usually in day searches infrared is not used.

In the search today since it started early morning I can understand why they are only doing a visual search from the helicopter. It is amazing how clearly one can see when up in these big H60s though. They can see much clearer than someone on the ground that is having to push their way through the rough terrain on foot.

IMO

 

[BeanE]

or the perp might just volunteer for a search, and destroy or move evidence?

Or lead a group of searchers away from evidence

Or plant evidence pointing at someone else

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I pray they find him soon.Where are they searching now?

 

[scandi]

Hi Scandi,
Perhaps the most out of the box thing I can think of is if it's a kidnapping which somehow involves Intel. Never heard of anything like that happening here in the USA,but,it does happen in other countries. Please understand, I'm delberately looking at exotic, far out things. Things that might be unique.... On the other hand,the Fbi agent could simply have meant uniqure because a child was taken from inside an elementary school..... Who knows ?

I believe that the reason they are tiptoeing is because the situation involves other students who are minors who need to be protected. If this information was released it would just make the situation even more chaotic. The number one goal right now is to find Kyron.

I also believe that Kryon's parents are aware that this situation involves other minors and that is why they are remaining out of sight of the media. JMO

I wonder if the FBI has a profile of the perp being a white male in his 20's, very intelligent who would relate to Kyron, but low key and almost shy. If they are searching the woods like they are I think it is more likely a man would put a body in a place like that. A woman might tuak a body in a basement or attic IMO.

 

[BeanE]

Please let me take a quick second to extend a warm welcome to all our new members joining us here to help find out what happened to Kyron. Thank you for caring about him. I'm glad to have you here!

Please let me know if there's anything at all I can help you with.

Thanks!
BeanE

 

[Emma Peel]

This is true. I was thinking the difference could be that this person would have to be "braver" due to the fact they where incased by the school walls not walking on a sidewalk were they could excape easier.:waitasec:

agree that this relatively isolated school without cameras and that busy happy hectic day, and the fact that school is soon closing ... very attractive and tempting and even a bit of timing pressure for a bold (or, just obsessed) SO type perp.

 

[Calliope]

Just thinking about the press conference and the possibility (probability IMO) that Gates was asking for their cooperation in not pushing for answers he couldn't give...

Interesting these are taking place in a church. Private property. I think that was done with a specific purpose in mind. Where, if they so desired, they could simply refuse admittance to any reporters who'd choose not to cooperate.

 

[eyes4crime]

I don't believe Kyron would walk away from the adventures of a science fair that he was well invested in and walk into dense brush. He grew up in an organized, scheduled, and education filled home and seems the least likely child to wander off during an adventure in his own school.

Guess one might speculate there is a desperate 'perp' who knew the school year was ending and had to have a child - the chaos of the day and lack of security would make that possible for the right person. Or a perp who had groomed Kyron for this very day - instilling trust and a friendly repore.

Could it be that someone completely foreign to the school wandered in and targeted a child like Kyron?
And with all the possibilities of many children available - why a 7yo boy like Kyron? Just my irrational thoughts and opinions

 

[BleuK]

I've lost the posts now, I believe they were on the 7th thread, in regards to the dad's request that they search the horse farm and IMO it was more than likely an issue of where did he think Kyron might go, what places should they look.

I still feel that Kyron may have wandered away from school and gotten lost, given the area surrounding the school. Or if he was abducted that they feel he was taken into the woods, given the search efforts.

I also feel that the family not speaking to the media is making things focus on Kyron. Even the bits and pieces that are "out there" in the media about them are being picked apart and focused on by the media, much less if they were doing/saying more.

I can't imagine how awful this must be for them and Kyron and I hope he is found soon, they are in my prayers.

 

[watchful_eye]

I'd rather my child watch Bones than play violent video games.

 

[pdx]

are there normally lots of letters to the editor?

Yes, that's why I find it significant. Whatever topic has been on the front page (like this one has), everyone wants to pipe in, same as we do here. There have been no shortage of comments on the website stories (oregonlive.com).. it's remarkable enough to me (newspaper junkie, me).

Also, as indicated by the search commander, they have to pace themselves too. Throw everything they have into it all at once and what happens later when they need those people to continue the search?

Excellent point, and mentioned by Diana Olsen, the Sheriff Incident Command/SAR specialist.. she said they are starting to lose boots on the ground *now* as (volunteer) people use up their paid time off, vacation etc.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Neat article about thermal imaging from Wired:

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/st_tool_thermal_imager/

Here is a photo and the stats on a Air Force HH-60 Pave Hawk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HH-60_Pave_Hawk

 

[dorothyz]

Hi neighbor
There was some discussion in yesterday's thread about whether or not the media is required to back off at LE request (they used to, in the good old days)... IMO, and you know what a small town it is here, if they want to keep good access for the future, they play ball appropriately when requested. Obviously, there is journalistic interest in the case, mostly caused by our own curiosity about what on earth could have happened here, but if there is nothing to tell that will *help the case*.. maybe the newsiesare using common sense.

You probably noticed, as I did again this morning, that the Oregonian hasn't run a single letter to the editor on this. With all the discussion about this case, that's.. interesting, to me.

Hi neighbor,

Thanks guys, for the responses on the media. I wonder what is exactly said to them "off camera". I'm still somewhat surprised they've backed off as much as they have, especially considering our local media and the way the Ward Weaver case was handled. But I suppose he was falling all over himself to get on TV. I hadn't considered the O's letters to the editor, but that is very, very weird. Makes me think even more that they know way more than they are saying.

To the poster who was asking about animals... I'm kind of a city girl, but the main immediate dangers I hear about are mountain lions and wolves. We don't really have poisonous snakes, and maybe the occasional black widow spider. And there could also be pet pit bulls or other dogs on private property. Considering the rural-ness of the school, I didn't think this was a stupid question!

 

[Lava]

I can't see them thinking that he is lost in the woods and at the same time refusing to confirm last known time he was seen, by who, where, etc.

Searching the woods does not mean they don't think someone has him. Lots of vagrants in those woods and they could be looking for every piece of evidence possible...clothing, scent trail, makeshift campsites.

Again, remember Derrick Engebretson, they believe he started out lost in the woods but then was taken...they found candy wrapping and huts, etc...which if that were the case here would explain not wanting volunteers searching and disturbing a crime scene.

To many of LE's "no comments" and actions just don't completely fit any scenario.

 

[crazycatladyscotland]

Just bouncihng off this CSI converstation (not really responding to your post in particular)

My son is one month younger than Kyron...

Watches CSI, ER, Dr. G Medical Examiner & Discovery Channel. His fav is Dr. G Medical Examiner.

I personally see nothing wrong with Kyrons shirt - or Kyron watching CSI.. I can only hope he applies some of what he learned from the program, in the situation he is currently in.


All I can say is thank you to CSI producers!!

first of all, that is awesome. It makes me so happy to hear the next generation has members with their heads in the right places. You must be so proud. I must admit i do sometimes worry that some skills are dying out and that the next 100 years will lead to a massive decline on those who can understand science and a huge increase in those who can work a playstation (there is Dylan Moran joke about the most a lot of these people can pass down to their children is *watch out for the goblin on level 8*).

At aged 8 I told my family I wanted to be a pathologist, spent that summer learning the names of all the bones in the human body and just about lived in our local library. I have not turned out badly, still have a huge passion for all things science, and have never hurt a child or another adult or animal. Some kids are just *like this*. I would not change these aspects of my childhood for the world. Perhaps this is why this case has bothered me so: he reminds me so much of me at that age, and I could see why a lot of others on this forum would feel the same way.

Also, an idea for the LE no comment stance, perhaps they are learning that a lot of abductors enjoy watching the parents beg for the return of their child, as it seems to be an emerging pattern that they no longer have the family front and centre?

 

[liz b.]

I would LOVE for this to be the case, but I just don't see LE being so hushhush and 'no commenting' if they KNOW Kyron is out in the woods of his own free will.

But LE has stated that this is NOT a criminal investigation. I have never heard them do that before in the case of a missing child who they have reason to believe has been abducted. Never. They could be hush hush for several reasons : to protect the privacy of the family, to keep the search moving,without hordes of reporters showing up at the scene. If Kyron is in those woods -- and I think he is --, and they get to him in time, just watch how vocal LE will get !

This theory would explain why that LEO at the presser the other day mentioned two cases of missing persons : the little boy at Crater Lake,who was never located, and the Kim family,who were found because of the pings on their cell phones. He chose those two examples of methods of searching for a reason. IMO