OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #8

[STEADFAST]

I am getting to be more curious about the teacher.

1. The teacher reportedly told the parents that Tyron was not at school when class started, and that she had marked him absent that day.

2. Kyron's seat-mate told police that a substitute teacher who was about to be left with the class, noticed that Kyron was not with the class and pointed this out to the teacher, who told the sub that Kyron must be in the bathroom or getting a drink of water.

HuH?

Why did they need a sub if the teacher was there? Why was the teacher leaving? Was it a last-minute thing...did she leave the school, or did she just leave the classroom to work elsewhere in the building? Did she return to school that day?

Everyone has been asked not to speak to the media, and even this little boy did not speak publicly at first. It was only after the school's story of Kyron being absent was publicized that this boy's family decided to speak out anyway.

I think the "sub" was probably someone there to help lead the small groups around the science fair. Also, the little boy who told this story is the same little boy who told the news about being surprised Kyron wasn't on the bus. I think but am not sure that he's also the same little boy who said he saw Kyron near the south door. Sounds to me like he's trying to come up with helpful ideas, but maybe not so accurate.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I just got back from visiting with my brother and his fiance. His fiance has been listening to KPOJ in Portland and hearing updates on Kyron's case.

She said that they are stating the FBI is considering making more information in Kyron's case public very soon. It is because of the time that has elapsed since he went missing.

She also stated that the "talking heads" on the radio are saying they believe someone who Kyron knew came to the school and took him after SM left. They think this way because no one heard a commotion when Kyron disappeared.

I haven't looked to see if this station can be heard over the internet yet, but if it can, we might want to listen. She said they discuss the case often.

http://www.620kpoj.com/main.html

Yes, I believe that as well. I also think, in retrospect, the LE and the family realized who it was that Kyron left with. And that is when the media blackout started.

 

[LotsaLatte]

Someone yesterday (I think) was talking about the railroad tracks and I think mentioned a tunnel. I have attached a picture of the tracks and highlighted them yellow. Could someone walk in this tunnel? Have they searched the tunnel? Anyone know more about the tunnel? Does the train still run through there?

I was just thinking today that it's possible that this (insert bad word here) from the St. Helens incident could have been involved and since I believe he is homeless, may ride the rails and could have easily been at the area around Kyron's school the day he went missing. Easy to go from there to the tracks. And there are or were homeless "camps" in the woods (Forest Park, etc)

ps. do I need to edit this to remove (insert bad word here)?

 

[pinkpuddytat]

"Intel funding the search" is a rumor started here as a suggestion; there's nothing to indicate they've funded anything.

I doubt that Intel is directly funding it, apart from perhaps making some bulk donations of bottled water in response to LE requests. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if they've allowed employees to take some paid time off to participate in the search, if their presence at work isn't critically important. Intel is a big company with a lot of very smart employees, and it would be a very valuable contribution to implement a flexible leave policy for those who want to devote a day or two to the search effort.

 

[RubyRed]

Security cameras in a school setting, daycare etc should be a TOP priority, too many child snatchers/ molesters , out there not too boy Im sure glad I got my 3 girls raised safetly , now I worry about my grandbabies, I would die if anything bad happened, and NUTTIN would keep this gramma from getting out there and pounding pavement to try and find them, I mean nothing, I would be in front of every camera I could beggin to get them back. I couldn't just sit and wait know what I mean?? Kyron where are you, and I don't get just searching around the school and local area, he could be anywhere at this point

bbm

A mile a minute and the perp had at least a 6 hour head start.

 

[DairyGirl]

good morning/good night all...

They still havent found him...oh no...poor little fellow....I truly hope he is ok.....If he is still alive he must be so scared.....

I have just caught up again...you've all been busy...

My thoughts today:

First of all there is something major we are not being told....that is very obvious...

Otherwise they would not be saying things like "other kids are not in danger" ie not a sexual predator on the loose....."unique" situation.......to me again means not a stranger/sexual predator abduction...because unfortunately we know this is not unique...

I think that the reason the family got legal reps and are not talking is because they are going to sue the school/education department....
and maybe it is going to cause a bit of a shake up within the education dept/schools security or something like that or maybe by talking too much other parents might be able to sue.......

I think back to Jamie Bulger....I was living in England at the time and it was so awful and unbeleivable.....

Maybe this is something like this......a couple of kids (bullies) lured him into the woods and did something to him....and maybe they are quite young and a few families involved in trying to get these kids to talk...

there would be a huge uproar if a couple of kids were able to just take another boy into the woods during school hours.......the school will be in so much trouble and also the uproar of "what is happening to our kids"....

I do think there is a big pending lawsuit involved here hence the families silence...'

One thing does worry me though.....if kids had taken your child into the woods and maybe harmed them, would you be going to the gym? that behaviour to me makes me think they think he is alive...

or my other theory...well one cant be discussed and the other one is that he took off and hid because he did not want to be in the talent show.....

I think you may be right there.

 

[human]

Why did they need a sub at the school?

We don't know if the sub was for Kyron's class. It could be that the kids were divided up for the tour and s/he was a sub for another class.

If Kyron was seen about 9 AM, that is a time that the kids would have been divided up.

It has been stated several times, until LE changed their minds to say "no comment", that no staff member had seen Kyron after 8:45.

So this child's report does seem to conflict, because the sub saw the child.

But then, the sub might not be considered a "staff" member.

Or, the regular teacher could be leaving for an appointment and didn't want to be docked for a sub pay for the whole day.

As a former teacher, if we took off for one hour, we were docked for 4 hours, even though we were gone for only one hour.

It is impossible to find a sub who would be willing to come for less than 4 hours. So all subs are hired for at least 4 hours.

That's the way it was for me.

If the teacher did come back, then it's weird that she didn't notice that he was missing and comment on it or look into it.

It was a crazy day, however, with the talent show as well.

It doesn't matter if parents sign any release for a school not to have liability.

Our school attorney has said the releases do not hold water, so our district doesn't even have parents sign anything.

 

[scandi]

I really hope they had cadaver dogs last weekend and now too.I strongly feel they really should bring them in early in all cases.

Usually they don't bring in cadaver or human recovery dogs until the search changes from a rescue to a recovery mission IMO Since they had no evidence Kyron had been abducted they have been in a rescue mission I believe. Usually when that mission changes they let the public know.

Now there are specially trained sniffer dogs that can do both tasks but it is quite unusual. Forr the searches on 9-11 they used these special dogs who can alert to either a live scent or that of a cadaver. xox

 

[snarkymalarkey]

I recently saw a "Dateline"-type show about a girl who was kidnapped in the south somewhere, and taken to an underground hideout in the woods. It was hidden so well that searchers walked right over it and never knew it was there. She was kept there and raped daily. She decided to pretend she was happy to be there and gained some trust from the kidnapper. She began sending text messages from his phone while he was sleeping, but none of them got through until one night she was able to push the bunker top open and get a signal. She eventually got away, but of course I can't exactly remember how. I wish I could remember her name, it was a fascinating story with a good ending. But the point is, the underground thing is not unheard of.

This vaguely sounds like a movie that i just watched, except it didnt have a happy ending.

 

[human]

O/T, but an important point to spread, IMO: the incidence of fatal "child forgotten in hot car" cases has increased TEN-fold since the "child must be in the back seat" laws started becoming prevalent. An awful lot of children have died unnecessarily, as a result of this plan to protect them from airbags.

Airbag injuries are not usually fatal, much less involve decapitation, and they are a problem for small adults as well as elderly adults with fragile bones. A separate "off" switch for each air bag ought to be required, so that people can make their own decisions about the risk/benefit in any given situation. And child car seats should be designed to take the airbag impact, blocking it from reaching the child, so that parents can keep their child next to them where there's no way to forget they're in the car.

O/T I believe the front passenger seat is called the "death seat". It seems like people sitting in that seat don't make it a lot.

The safest spot is in the middle of the back seat, apparently.

 

[scandi]

Why did they need a sub at the school?

We don't know if the sub was for Kyron's class. It could be that the kids were divided up for the tour and s/he was a sub for another class.

If Kyron was seen about 9 AM, that is a time that the kids would have been divided up.

It has been stated several times, until LE changed their minds to say "no comment", that no staff member had seen Kyron after 8:45.

So this child's report does seem to conflict, because the sub saw the child.

But then, the sub might not be considered a "staff" member.

Or, the regular teacher could be leaving for an appointment and didn't want to be docked for a sub pay for the whole day.

As a former teacher, if we took off for one hour, we were docked for 4 hours, even though we were gone for only one hour.

It is impossible to find a sub who would be willing to come for less than 4 hours. So all subs are hired for at least 4 hours.

That's the way it was for me.

If the teacher did come back, then it's weird that she didn't notice that he was missing and comment on it or look into it.

It was a crazy day, however, with the talent show as well.

It doesn't matter if parents sign any release for a school not to have liability.

Our school attorney has said the releases do not hold water, so our district doesn't even have parents sign anything.

Hi, I've pondered those thoughts too about why the sub. We learned Kyron's class was a joint 2nd and 3rd grade one. For this busy day they had divided the classes into groups as I read it. That might be why they called in a sub for that day. I would consider a sub a temporary staff member because they are qualified teachers who earn a wage when called in. In fact, aren't they on an approved list for the school to call when needed? xox

 

[pinkpuddytat]

*snipped*
It's with a sinking heart I comment.... since it is getting to the almost too late stage, I wonder if LE/FBI will remove the kid gloves now and let the POI, if there is one, know they pretty much have a good idea what happened and it really is time to cut the pretense and lead them to this poor little boy.

I can understand LE/FBI tiptoeing around a possible POI during the time frame where, if Kyron was intentionally left out in the wilderness to fend for himself (one of my theories), he might actually be found alive, but we are getting down to the wire here as far as survival and I feel like a bold move is going to be made soon on the part of LE as far as extracting info from a possible POI.

Possibly, but if they have a POI, they may also have a suspicion about what that POI did with Kyron, and that would be a big influence on the question of what time frame is "too late". If a child is being held captive by an abductor, the abductor may keep the child alive for years (e.g. Jaycee Dugard, Steven Staynor, Shawn Hornbeck). And if the profile of the POI suggests he might be inclined to kill the child to dispose of the evidence, if he thinks LE is on to him, then the time frame for being careful not to tip off the POI that he's a POI is virtually unlimited (as is the time frame for pretending to be focusing on other possibilities, in order to keep the POI calm).

 

[BeanE]

God bless the searchers.

 

[RubyRed]

I recently saw a "Dateline"-type show about a girl who was kidnapped in the south somewhere, and taken to an underground hideout in the woods. It was hidden so well that searchers walked right over it and never knew it was there. She was kept there and raped daily. She decided to pretend she was happy to be there and gained some trust from the kidnapper. She began sending text messages from his phone while he was sleeping, but none of them got through until one night she was able to push the bunker top open and get a signal. She eventually got away, but of course I can't exactly remember how. I wish I could remember her name, it was a fascinating story with a good ending. But the point is, the underground thing is not unheard of.

I think Elizabeth Shoaf is who you are thinking of.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23518089/ns/today-today_people/

 

[CharlestonGal]

I would hope they've already had cadaver dogs all over that school & the adjacent grounds last weekend. I really do. RIP Annie Le.

They did have dogs from the very first day. Inside and outside the school. After nearly 7 days I don't think they would need dogs anymore in order to detect a scent in that area. That was really hard to type.

 

[BeanE]

Might already be posted here, but I saw a local station's footage that showed all the searchers who came in to be staying at an unused local correctional center. Intel was supplying food.

A few threads ago someone posted a link to a blog that was in Kyron's own teacher's name. I just went back to revisit that site (googled the name, location) --- which could be real or totally bogus --- and at the top of the blog it says "Terri Horman Arrested" --- and then it's never addressed in the body of the web page. You know how to find it. What the heck is THAT about?

Please post a link to the blog you're referring to.

Thanks,
BeanE

ETA: Is this the blog you're saying is Kyron's teacher's blog? On Lifedork?

http://www.lifedork.net/article/terri+horman+arrested.html

 

[human]

Hi, I've pondered those thoughts too about why the sub. We learned Kyron's class was a joint 2nd and 3rd grade one. For this busy day they had dived the classes into groups as I read it. That might be why they called in a sub for that day. I would consider a sub a temporary staff member because they are qualified teachers who earn a wage when called in. In fact, aren't they on an approved list for the school to call when needed? xox

In my school district, subs are given training at the beginning of the year. They go through background checks and whatever else. If they are unacceptable as a teacher (reported by other staff members,), they are not on the list anymore.

My other daughter was a sub for awhile. She quit because they would have her sub in subjects such as band and gym, that she was not qualified to do. She quit. In spite of having three colleges/universities in our area, there are not enough subs to do the job. There are times when a teacher has had to monitor 2 classrooms at one time. I'm not sure if it was for all day because I was busy and forgot to ask.

Sometimes, they have to just go with a warm, licensed body.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

This may have been said but why they are searching the 2 mile radius like it was mentioned by a smart poster that the cell phone pings are found in that range. I believe the suspected person who took Kyron if that be the case or Kyron himself had a cellphone. They are searching all ping areas, spending lots of time in repeat locations or long pause times.

I am not an expert so I wanted to mention something I was thinking about so the information is in common terms made by a common person (namely me) see below.

Also of intrest is some kind of location profiling, they take locations of instances and put pins on a map, string the outside circumference around the outside and the perp. is to have been said to live almost always in the center of such circle (give or take a few miles). I will look for a link with more information. Cell phone pings being seen as such instances the same theory may apply?

Thank you for your map Puf by the way!

 

[gibby207]

Interesting. I keep wondering why they are focusing entirely on a two mile radius. If it were an abduction, it seems that would not be the case unless they had reason to believe the perp dumped his body there -- or Kyron did have a cell phone and they got a ping there.

I don't know - in other missing persons cases, do they always search like this in a small radius from place last seen?

I was wondering if the ping was from a tip oorrrrr looking at cell records of those cooperative enough to give records.

 

[emmcee]

I have never been in a situation where there was a "door to door search" so forgive me for my naiviete (however you spell that word).

Do they go to the door and merely ask if the residents have seen anything suspicious? Or do they physically go through each house - check basements, attics, storage buildings, etc.

Again I apologize for my stupidity on this (at least I can spell that one.)