OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

[thepinkdragon]

Well, there you go. Here is the video.

[video=youtube;7mOJf9HW2Zo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mOJf9HW2Zo&feature=youtu.be[/video]

But thank the heavens another army veteran, unarmed, went after the shooter.

I am elated that Chris Mintz is alive. He is a true hero. I bet the other military veterans on campus did what they felt they could too, but without getting directly involved in taking the shooter and I understand it.

MOO:

I see all these comments about stricter gun laws, references blah blah blah. Mental illness? Deny. Oh wait, what about those military veteran's who have PTSD!? So, even though I've managed to not kill anyone or be arrested for the past 21 years, just because I am 100% service connected for PTSD I shouldn't own a weapon? Let me tell you a story about myself. It just happened before I read this train wreck of a thread.

I have had FIVE PTSD triggers within the last week due to stress, isolation, medicine changes and no respite. In fact I had one tonight. So did I pick up my registered AR-15 and go shoot random people, myself or people I know? No. I did however check my gun lock, put new front and rear sights on it, load my magazine and put it in a locked ammunition box away from the rifle and secured it in a passcode locked closet. I focused on safety, which soothed me and now I'm fine. This is not about singling people out and denying their 2nd Amendment right because of a real or perceived mental illness and grouping them into a "likely to commit mass murder" category. This is about making sure of your own personal safety and of those around you that you are close to. Apparently this shooter didn't have anyone in his life who paid enough attention to notice he was becoming consistently unstable and taking measures to prevent what happened. Accountability is NOT individual. Of all the people who said he seemed weird, off etc, did any of them even attempt to get to know him, help him work through issues, learn coping skills etc? Apparently not. It's my own opinion that the concealed carrying vets chose not to get involved because their own possible military service related "mental illnesses" may have been cast in the limelight for shooting the shooter. There is a double standard in the gun law debate about mental illness that really rubs me the wrong way. I wish the overgeneralization would stop. It's not a cut and dry fix. Again, MOO

 

[Sonya610]

I figure if you can come up with 3-5 people who would vouch for your stability that owning a gun shouldn't likely be a problem.

And if you don't have 3-5 people that will vouch for you I am sure you could pay a few people.

Not directed at you -- but those folks that say "Well we all agree to take our shoes off at the airport, so we can all agree to ban ________" are really out of touch with the sentiments in other states.

Many states are moving in the other direction with a vengeance. In my state our lawmakers are constantly providing gun owners with new/better rights.

 

[sonjay]

Is it easy to avoid states where folks conceal carry when visiting the USA, or is it pretty much everywhere? Just curious.

It's everywhere, finally.

There are some states and cities that still make it very very difficult for a law-abiding citizen to obtain a carry permit. In those areas, only the violent criminals are carrying.

IIRC, some states don't even require a permit to carry a gun. Somehow that doesn't sound right. Maybe it is no permit to HAVE a gun, but still have to have a CCP?

I know a friend of mine is a huge gun afficianado and has a CCW in our state but said she could get arrested for carrying one state over? Very confusing.

Oddly enough, the states that don't require a permit to carry tend to have very low crime rates. Vermont, for example. Anyone can carry legally in Vermont. There's almost no crime there. Mind-blowing.

 

[KaaBoom]

<BBM for Focus>

Fairy1, there are many examples of CCP holders stopping crime in its tracks but due to the ms media's agenda. To report it doesn't fit their narrative, imo..

Bank robber shot by concealed pistol holder in Metro Detroit ...
www.mlive.com/.../bank_robber_shot_by_concealed.html
Michigan Live
Sep 23, 2015 - The suspected bank robber has been identified as Henry H. Mann, 43, ... Man robbing bank shot by customer with #CCL in Warren, #Michigan ..

Finding one man bites dog story, doesn't prove a point. Answer one simple question. If so many criminals are being stopped by people carrying a concealed weapon, then why is there twice as much violent crime in the US, then in Canada where CCW is illegal?

If guns really keep people safe, then the US would be the safest country in the world, but we are not. Instead we have student's getting gunned down in their class rooms every couple of weeks, and lots of people carrying concealed weapons, and they haven't been able to stop even one of these attacks. The gun culture in America is being proven to be an epic failure every single day, and you gun proponents can't admit that it is not working. So the body count just keeps going up, and up, and up.

 

[KaaBoom]

Is it easy to avoid states where folks conceal carry when visiting the USA, or is it pretty much everywhere? Just curious.

No, the NRA has paid off politicians in every state, to make sure that there is no place safe from their guns violence.

 

[KaaBoom]

In Sandy Hook, that mother had lots of help. And she still bought that kid guns, left him to his own devices, and ignored his escalating "weird" behavior.

IDK about this mom. Not enough info yet.

And now it appears the exact same situation has been repeated at Umpqua. Another family giving guns to their mentally ill son.

 

[KaaBoom]

I am wondering where the money came from to purchase guns

Probably the same place Adam Lanza did. From his gun fanatic mother.

 

[sonjay]

Finding one man bites dog story, doesn't prove a point. Answer one simple question. If so many criminals are being stopped by people carrying a concealed weapon, then why is there twice as much violent crime in the US, then in Canada where CCW is illegal?

If guns really keep people safe, then the US would be the safest country in the world, but we are not. Instead we have student's getting gunned down in their class rooms every couple of weeks, and lots of people carrying concealed weapons, and they haven't been able to stop even one of these attacks. The gun culture in America is being proven to be an epic failure every single day, and you gun proponents can't admit that it is not working. So the body count just keeps going up, and up, and up.

The fact is that throughout the United States, there is virtually no correlation between liberal gun laws and violent crime rates. There are areas with strict gun laws and high crime. Areas with liberal gun laws and high crime. Areas with strict gun laws and low crime. Areas with liberal gun laws and low crime.

The fact is, violent crime isn't influenced by the availability of guns. It's irrational -- a sort of magical thinking -- to imagine that gun control laws can or will reduce crime.

The fact is, the "gun culture" in America is just fine and does not cause or contribute to violence. The violence culture, that's a different problem altogether. And you gun-control proponents can't admit that violence is the problem. So the body count will continue to go up.

 

[sonjay]

She was not willing to accept that there was something really wrong with him.She got him guns and let him live in the basement .

BBM. That's the issue, right there. People do see these things. They see signs of problems. And they ignore them. Or, they don't ignore them, but the system isn't set up to deal with these kinds of problems.

It's easier to blame guns than to figure out how to deal with the real problems. It's laziness and childishness, IMO, to blame inanimate objects.

 

[STANDREID]

I'm an NRA member and I've never even shot an animal and never will unless it's a matter of survival. I don't even eat meat except on rare occasions for social reasons.

 

[Trino]

The fact is that throughout the United States, there is virtually no correlation between liberal gun laws and violent crime rates. There are areas with strict gun laws and high crime. Areas with liberal gun laws and high crime. Areas with strict gun laws and low crime. Areas with liberal gun laws and low crime.

The fact is, violent crime isn't influenced by the availability of guns. It's irrational -- a sort of magical thinking -- to imagine that gun control laws can or will reduce crime.

The fact is, the "gun culture" in America is just fine and does not cause or contribute to violence. The violence culture, that's a different problem altogether. And you gun-control proponents can't admit that violence is the problem. So the body count will continue to go up.

This may be true in America, but it certainly isn't in Australia. http://mic.com/articles/123049/19-y...ontrol-laws-here-s-what-happened-in-australia

As to "violence," isn't that an inanimate thing? It's as inanimate as a gun.

 

[ILOKAL]

Has there been anything said about Mercer taking any medications?

 

[Sonya610]

I'm an NRA member and I've never even shot an animal and never will unless it's a matter of survival. I don't even eat meat except on rare occasions for social reasons.

I donate to the NRA and I don't hunt either.

In fact these days only about 30% of NRA members have guns for hunting.

 

[Trino]

Chris Harper Mercer attended a school for teens with emotional disabilities - Switzer Center. Some of these students had been expelled from other schools or had had trouble with the law. And, herein lies a big problem. Most likely, while in school, he had help. Then, boom. He graduated. No continuum. No help.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-...ved-in-torrance-graduated-from-switzer-center

 

[EllieBee]

I would like to say here that the only reason you think this is scary is because the media has drilled it into your head that it should be scary.

Where I grew up? EVERYONE, (read it again) E V E R Y O N E had guns. Rifles and pistols. My own grandmother who was as close to a Saint as there ever could be had a shotgun in the broom closet right by the door.

The best Christmas gift most kids could get at about the age of 10 or 12 would be a nice .22 single bolt action rifle. (Bought my own kids the same).

Nobody in my school ever got shot, ever in all the how many years it has been open since 1912 or whatever. Nobody.

This is not about the gun, it's about the person that did this.

Nah. It's more the fact that I detest guns and the crazy nuts around where I live that shoot em whenever they get liquored up.

But I am funny like that. . Thanks, though for telling me why I think guns are scary!

 

[EllieBee]

BBM. That's the issue, right there. People do see these things. They see signs of problems. And they ignore them. Or, they don't ignore them, but the system isn't set up to deal with these kinds of problems.

It's easier to blame guns than to figure out how to deal with the real problems. It's laziness and childishness, IMO, to blame inanimate objects.

I do think the guns help, though.

Just running around pointing a finger and screaming "POW POW" isn't nearly as effective when some mentally ill person decides to take out a large number of people.

 

[EllieBee]

Humina-WHAT??!!

That's just so goddamned stupid I can hardly stand it!

Totally true.

http://libertynews.com/2015/06/chic...r-anyone-presenting-a-concealed-carry-permit/

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.nrtoday.com/news/18452644-113/authorities-identify-ucc-shooter

The shooting began just after 10:30 a.m. in a hall where there were about 35 people, according to emergency dispatcher reports. Approximately seven minutes later, officers reported that the gunman was down.

 

[EllieBee]

Almost all of them will see it coming.

Not to mention it is awfully hard to kill another person, much less large groups of people by forcing them to get heart disease.

As you said, the element of surprise is off the table......

 

[EllieBee]

http://www.nrtoday.com/news/18452644-113/authorities-identify-ucc-shooter

The shooting began just after 10:30 a.m. in a hall where there were about 35 people, according to emergency dispatcher reports. Approximately seven minutes later, officers reported that the gunman was down.

Thank God for the quick response time! Well done, LE.

As awful as this shooting was, it could have been even worse.