OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

[galiuro]

Afraid of extreme action for GOOD REASON! Many of the posts on this thread typify the exact sort of "extreme action" that makes others not want give an inch.

If you know the enemy plans to take it ALL then giving in and letting them just take "some of it" without a fight is counterproductive.

Just like all "wars" there are risks, if people push hard and lose the other side gains (i.e. massive surge in gun sales during 2013).

Who or what the heck is/are 'the enemy?

 

[GutInstinct]

Hey Blue Sneakers, JMO - on what this 'might' mean based on my reading the posts on that 'site' immediately after name was released. The narrative goes like this: there are 'normies' (white men who have it made, eg. good looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.). There there are the 'robots' - those on that horrid site that label themselves as such and ones who do NOT have it made (no looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.) And, how "we" (the robots) don't have a chance so ...

ps - When I discovered the 'site' in my search after 'he' was named on CNN - it was, for me, a total shock. In my naivete, I had no idea such sites and such chatter even existed. I was drawn in to read and read more, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It made my stomach turn, and still does, just writing and repeating this. Just FYI.

 

[leah]

Hey Blue Sneakers, JMO - on what this 'might' mean based on my reading the posts on that 'site' immediately after name was released. The narrative goes like this: there are 'normies' (white men who have it made, eg. good looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.). There there are the 'robots' - those on that horrid site that label themselves as such and ones who do NOT have it made (no looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.) And, how "we" (the robots) don't have a chance so ...

I wondered what that was all about, thank-you. I thought there were other "names" used as well when I went to that site, and now I don't remember the "names" being used, or where on there I saw it.

 

[katydid23]

Girlfriends?

Maybe that is the answer. Make a robot gf that meets their needs because I am afraid that having a relationship with these killers is not possible for very long.

It is more than just girlfriends that they need. When following the Elliot Rodgers case, a very similar situation, it seemed that being rejected and abandoned by one's father was a big issue as well. In both cases the father, a successful but distant figure, moved on and remarried with new families. I think that feeling of abandonment had a big impact as well. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Hey Blue Sneakers, JMO - on what this 'might' mean based on my reading the posts on that 'site' immediately after name was released. The narrative goes like this: there are 'normies' (white men who have it made, eg. good looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.). There there are the 'robots' - those on that horrid site that label themselves as such and ones who do NOT have it made (no looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.) And, how "we" (the robots) don't have a chance so ...

I think I get it. They deserve more than regular people and if they don't get it ALL it's basically the same as getting nothing.

The boys from those sites and similar, imo, could learn a lot with some gratitude exercises. Because a place to live, food, money, work, potable water, health care, electricity, the internet... that's a lot of stuff to have.

eta: I've been to that site other times. A lot of its members post on twitter. After GG I must have blocked a thousand twitterers.

 

[Hatfield]

Hey Blue Sneakers, JMO - on what this 'might' mean based on my reading the posts on that 'site' immediately after name was released. The narrative goes like this: there are 'normies' (white men who have it made, eg. good looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.). There there are the 'robots' - those on that horrid site that label themselves as such and ones who do NOT have it made (no looks, job, career, gfriend, etc.) And, how "we" (the robots) don't have a chance so ...

He definitely seemed to be a sick minded and very selfish person who needed professional help.

I know mental illness is very difficult to treat and wondering how long and hard any attempts at getting him any help.

 

[GutInstinct]

ps - When I discovered the 'site' in my search after 'he' was named on CNN - it was, for me, a total shock. In my naivete, I had no idea such sites and such chatter even existed. I was drawn in to read and read more, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It made my stomach turn, and still does, just writing and repeating this. Just FYI.

The enemy was 'the normies". The everyday white guy who leads and lives a normal life. The opposite of "the normies" were the "robots". This was a thread among the "robots" who hate and envy "the normies". "He" had posted that he never had a gf; was still a virgin. His fellow "robots" reinforced his status as a "robot" when the conversation turned to "saving yourself for the right person" - he said "Involuntarily".

So, as I read this thread that evening, I saw where the other "robots" egged him on, encouraged and applauded his attention.

I'm sorry to share this, but it is my interpretation. Ugly. Deep. Dark & Very Ugly. Hatred. Revenge. Retaliation. Glory in Madness. All those words - JMO.

 

[human]

It is more than just girlfriends that they need. When following the Elliot Rodgers case, a very similar situation, it seemed that being rejected and abandoned by one's father was a big issue as well. In both cases the father, a successful but distant figure, moved on and remarried with new families. I think that feeling of abandonment had a big impact as well. JMO

Seems the same with AL.

But this child was 26 years old and chose? to live with mommy?

 

[Hatfield]

I think I get it. They deserve more than regular people and if they don't get it ALL it's basically the same as getting nothing.

The boys from those sites and similar, imo, could learn a lot with some gratitude exercises. Because a place to live, food, money, work, potable water, health care, electricity, the internet... that's a lot of stuff to have.

eta: I've been to that site other times. A lot of its members post on twitter. After GG I must have blocked a thousand twitterers.

Good points and that was the impression I got also. I could not believe the selfish and ungrateful attitudes being expressed. No Girlfriend? Sheesh. Ahhh....too stinking bad. Go out and keep trying you fool.

I agree that I think his father leaving had more to do with his issues than he would be willing to ever admit. Prolly some deep down resentment and perhaps even revenge motive came into play regarding that.

 

[katydid23]

Seems the same with AL.

But this child was 26 years old and chose? to live with mommy?

I don't think he chose it, not really. I think he had few options.

In the Adam Lanza case, the Elliott Rodgers case and this one, very similar family dynamics. Troubled son with mental health issues, parents split up, successful but distant father moves on to new family, mother and son live together in a dysfunctional, smothering way. JMO

 

[human]

What a narcisstic twit. At least he will be happy where he is going, He will have everything he wants.

I don't think you can reach people like him, can you?

ER sounded just the same, but he had tons of money.

That Norway shooter sounded the same as well. Entitled.

 

[human]

I don't think he chose it, not really. I think he had few options.

In the Adam Lanza case, the Elliott Rodgers case and this one, very similar family dynamics. Troubled son with mental health issues, parents split up, successful but distant father moves on to new family, mother and son live together in a dysfunctional, smothering way. JMO

There are group homes. Very nice ones. Not there?

I really hope someone can identify if there is a therapy for his type.

Divorce is hard on kids and there should always be therapy,

 

[katydid23]

There are group homes. Very nice ones. Not there?

I really hope someone can identify if there is a therapy for his type.

Divorce is hard on kids and there should always be therapy,

It is very hard to get into a group home. It is very expensive unless it is a court ordered type of thing.

Adam Lanz'as mom was trying to do that. It is actually what sent Adam off according to some reports. he felt his mom was betraying him by setting up 'interviews' for a group home and he killed her and went on a deadly rampage.

Elliot Rodgers family tried very hard to get him proper treatment. I applaud them for their efforts. IIRC, he had private therapy, took meds, did some in house treatments, and was very actively trying to 'get better.' But he was also a very sick and twisted boy. he had a lot of anger/rage towards his stepmom and new siblings. And he posted on 4chan about his anger towards rich white boys that stole all of the girls from him. He sounded very much like Mercer. They had white fathers who 'rejected' their non-white mothers and thus they were being rejected too, in their warped view of things.

 

[Hatfield]

I don't think he chose it, not really. I think he had few options.

In the Adam Lanza case, the Elliott Rodgers case and this one, very similar family dynamics. Troubled son with mental health issues, parents split up, successful but distant father moves on to new family, mother and son live together in a dysfunctional, smothering way. JMO

I really do think the similarities are too much to ignore. There is a definite pattern here.

I can even see similarities with James Holmes Colorado Theatre shooting case. He had very similar mental issues and also girlfriend issues and issues with society as a whole. Even though Holmes parents were still together, he had a disassociation with them and the way he described it was that he never connected with them in loving healthy way.

 

[human]

I think family issues are the thing,

When there are any issues like if the kid is doing some criminal stuff, the who,e fami,y should have therapy.

So often I saw the parents blaming their bratty kid and not looking at their behavior one tiny bit,

If there is divorce or separation, there should be mandated family therapy.

I think this was suggested years ago and people went ballistic.

 

[Lilibet]

I don't think he chose it, not really. I think he had few options.

In the Adam Lanza case, the Elliott Rodgers case and this one, very similar family dynamics. Troubled son with mental health issues, parents split up, successful but distant father moves on to new family, mother and son live together in a dysfunctional, smothering way. JMO

I would just like to consider the possibility that the mothers may have created the distance with the fathers in these cases. We don't know, of course. But it seems just as likely to me as saying the father was distant and moved on. Yes, of course there are deadbeat and deliberately uninvolved dads. But there are also controlling, isolating, dysfunctional mothers who put up practically impenetrable roadblocks to a father-son relationship. And kids in their teens have a choice too. But if there is a feeling that Mom has issues with Dad, the teen may try to keep Mom comfortable and distance themselves from Dad. We don't know which it was in any of these cases. JMO

 

[leah]

He definitely seemed to be a sick minded and very selfish person who needed professional help.

I know mental illness is very difficult to treat and wondering how long and hard any attempts at getting him any help.

We know he went to that special school, but I wonder where he went or what he did after. There was mention in one of the articles about college, and him taking the bus in CA to get there, and then that was it, no other info. Mom sounded really protective of him, and being that she is a nurse, wonder if she did other things to help him, besides that school? It's extremely difficult to get help when the child is over 18, but since she was a nurse, wondered if it may have been easier because of that. Whether you are a nurse, a stay at home mom, or whatever, you know your kid has issues, and IMO, there are just things you don't want to do. Reading some of the things he wrote, and I'm sure talked about to her, and even if he didn't talk to her, I would have been terrified of him committing suicide. I'm aware you can kill yourself besides using a gun, just saying I would have done my best to make it safer inside the home. When you go and commit a mass murder, was there really anything that could have helped him, mentally? Would years of talking to a therapist, and taking medication, really have helped?

 

[katydid23]

I would just like to consider the possibility that the mothers may have created the distance with the fathers in these cases. We don't know, of course. But it seems just as likely to me as saying the father was distant and moved on. Yes, of course there are deadbeat and deliberately uninvolved dads. But there are also controlling, isolating, dysfunctional mothers who put up practically impenetrable roadblocks to a father-son relationship. And kids in their teens have a choice too. But if there is a feeling that Mom has issues with Dad, the teen may try to keep Mom comfortable and distance themselves from Dad. We don't know which it was in any of these cases. JMO

I agree that the mom's may have helped create the distance. But a father still has personal and moral responsibility to be involved with their kids, especially special needs/troubled ones that are struggling, imo. Maybe all of these fathers did try and reach out to their kids and were rejected by them. IDK. But I do know that the sons felt abandoned and rejected by their fathers for whatever reason. Maybe it was the mom's poisoning their minds with those beliefs. IDK.

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree that the mom's may have helped create the distance. But a father still has personal and moral responsibility to be involved with their kids, especially special needs/troubled ones that are struggling, imo. Maybe all of these fathers did try and reach out to their kids and were rejected by them. IDK. But I do know that the sons felt abandoned and rejected by their fathers for whatever reason. Maybe it was the mom's poisoning their minds with those beliefs. IDK.

I have no links to back this up, but I've seen time and time again when a couple divorces and the father remarries he starts a new family and the child from the first marriage isn't as much a part of it as the others. I had to prepare my own daughter for it, and I expected it only because I'd seen friends go through it with their own dads. I always think of John Lennon, oddly enough, and what kind of a father he was to Julian vs. what kind of father he was to Sean.

I think it's more common for fathers, though I'm not saying the reverse is never true.

 

[GutInstinct]

I have compassion for the man. He must be devastated. But I am offended when he says things like ' 'Guns are the killers, cut and dry, it's as simple as that…' To me, that is him trying to distance himself from reality. In reality, HIS son was the killer. It's as simple as that.

I *think* it is much easier for society (and us) to talk about guns, rather than how to address and attack the core issue (mental illness). It's so clear the US does NOT have a solution to address mental illness. If they (we) did, we'd talk about it, but we don't, so it remains a topic misunderstood, tucked under the covers, and instead is deflected into conversations about guns, etc. I grew up with parents who were both 'mentally ill'. My mother was very ill. She was schizophrenic, and I lived a life of shame; but back then, she spent much of my childhood in a mental institution. There was a place for the mentally ill...to go.

I don't know a thing about guns; never saw one, held one, etc. So won't comment other than guns simply offer a weapon of choice for the mentally depraved who seek to harm others. But one thing is for sure, the mentally depraved & sadistic would still find a weapon, even if guns weren't available.

***I wish, there was a separate and unique broken-mind classification for those sick individuals who commit such heinous crimes on others. --- What these depraved minds do is off the mental health charts. Kinda in that same category of the Adam L, Philip C, Josh P, and the recent offender in the Madyson Middleton case. The deliberate planning & masterminding to cause pain & death & torture to others is what I refer to as the 'THE CRIMINALLY INSANE' - those that used to be committed to prisons and mental institutions for the criminally insane. Unfortunately, very very unfortunately, those types of institutions simply don't exist anymore.

Instead, they, 'the criminally insane' live among us all, the ticking time bomb. A tragedy for all -