OR - PRESIDENTIAL PARDON - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #4

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i.b.nora said:
GOP Politicians Planned And Participated In Key Aspects Of Refuge Occupation
by John Sepulvado OPB | March 16, 2016 11:45 a.m. | Updated: March 16, 2016 1:02 p.m. | Portland

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...can-gop-politicians-coalition-western-states/

“On a cold January morning, a posse led by a former Army company commander named Matt Shea rolled into the Harney County Courthouse and wanted to speak to the sheriff.

But this wasn’t a group of militants, or outlaws. They were state lawmakers from four western states, including Oregon. Most of them were members of a group called the Coalition of Western States, or COWS.”​
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Why in the world would anyone willingly want to be called a COW?

I sure hope my fellow Nevadans are paying attention to Fiore's antics. Unfortunately, I doubt it - particularly in this election cycle!
 
A lot in the news since yesterday, well sort of.

Nevada rancher charged in 2014 standoff to appear in federal court

The Nevada rancher at the center of a 2014 armed standoff with federal agents was due to appear on Thursday in U.S. District Court in Las Vegas, seeking to be released from custody ahead of his trial on conspiracy and other felony charges.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nevada-bundy-idUSKCN0WJ15M

Personally, if they let him out, I think there will just be another Bundyville. The old goat doesn't recognize nor respect the federal court system. jmo

DOJ Launches Investigation Into Grant County Sheriff

The state DOJ said Wednesday that the agency has opened an investigation into one of the complaints about Palmer, although the agency won’t describe the complaint while the investigation is ongoing. Evidence of wrongdoing could lead to criminal charges and revocation of Palmer’s law enforcement certification.
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http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...ounty-sheriff-glenn-palmer-doj-investigation/

Judge’s order keeps Bundys in Oregon for now
Judge prohibits transfer to Nevada

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) – A federal judge in Portland has prohibited U.S. Marshals from transferring Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy and Ryan Payne to Nevada for court hearings related to an armed standoff against government agents in 2014.
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http://koin.com/2016/03/17/judges-order-keeps-bundys-in-oregon-for-now/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/305035818/Judge-Brown-s-interim-order-3-16-16

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 14h14 hours ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Daniel Walters
the raw audio of the meeting between GOP lawmakers and Harney Co - if you use please credit. https://soundcloud.com/opb/010916cowsmeeting …
 
[video=twitter;710555360109535232]https://twitter.com/lake_tahoe_news/status/710555360109535232[/video]

Lake Tahoe News ‏@lake_tahoe_news 4m4 minutes ago
Cliven Bundy Loses Bid for Release From Nevada Jail: Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy has lost his bid for release from… http://m.tbnn.it/KpnK1V

NBC KSNV News 3Verified account ‏@News3LV 15m15 minutes ago
#UPDATE Judge rules Cliven Bundy will be held without bail http://news3lv.com/news/local/judge-cliven-bundy-will-be-held-without-bail …

US Attorney NevadaVerified account ‏@USAO_NV 2h2 hours ago
Detention hrg held this morning for Cliven Bundy. Court found that Bundy is a danger to the community and detained him pending trial.

Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian 1h1 hour ago
Fed judge allows Jon Ritzheimer's release to home detention in AZ w/ curfew and ankle bracelet after ?ng his mental state #Oregonstandoff

User Actions
Following

Maxine BernsteinVerified account
‏@maxoregonian
Fed Judge Robert E. Jones says Jon Ritzheimer's 11yrs w/ US Marine Corps was 'commendable' but (1/2) #Oregonstandoff

Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian 1h1 hour ago
But JudgeJones told Ritzheimer acting at command post w/ battle gear at Malheur refuge 'is not commendable in any sense' #Oregonstandoff

Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian 1h1 hour ago
Judge asks why Ritzheimer seems to race to protests.JR: 'I see things going in the wrong direction' and need to speak out #Oregonstandoff

Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian 1h1 hour ago
Judge Jones warns Ritzheimer he's on a 'really really tight' leash '& adds 'You touch another weapon and you're history' #Oregonstandoff
 
Dr. Know? said:
A lot in the news since yesterday, well sort of.

Nevada rancher charged in 2014 standoff to appear in federal court



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nevada-bundy-idUSKCN0WJ15M

Personally, if they let him out, I think there will just be another Bundyville. The old goat doesn't recognize nor respect the federal court system. jmo

DOJ Launches Investigation Into Grant County Sheriff



http://www.opb.org/news/series/burn...ounty-sheriff-glenn-palmer-doj-investigation/

Judge’s order keeps Bundys in Oregon for now
Judge prohibits transfer to Nevada



http://koin.com/2016/03/17/judges-order-keeps-bundys-in-oregon-for-now/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/305035818/Judge-Brown-s-interim-order-3-16-16

John Sepulvado ‏@JohnLGC 14h14 hours ago
John Sepulvado Retweeted Daniel Walters
the raw audio of the meeting between GOP lawmakers and Harney Co - if you use please credit. https://soundcloud.com/opb/010916cowsmeeting …
Click to expand...

I really like Judge Grasty - you tell em!!
 
I guess he ratted himself out.

Oregon standoff figure arrested after threatening to shoot federal officers, DA says

An armed militant who was part of the security team during the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation was in custody Thursday in Grant County on weapons charges after threatening to shoot federal law enforcement officers, according to Grant County District Attorney Jim Carpenter.

Scott A. Willingham, 49, was arrested Wednesday in the small town of Mount Vernon on allegations of unlawful use of a weapon, a felony, and second-degree disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor. He was arraigned Thursday in Grant County Circuit Court and held on $35,000 bail.

Carpenter said that during the arraignment, Willingham said he wanted to be jailed in Grant County to await arrest by federal authorities for his role in the occupation. Federal officials wouldn't confirm whether Willingham has been charged, although one name has been redacted from the most recent indictment naming 26 defendants.

A Grant County sheriff's deputy arrested Willingham at a motel after Willingham said that if he wasn't jailed Wednesday, he would "start shooting federal law enforcement officers" the next morning, Carpenter said.
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http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_figure_arreste.html
 
Willingham at the refuge removing the cameras.

[video=youtube;dvCAxGmDq9k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvCAxGmDq9k[/video]
 
This is from this morning. Reads from bottom up:

Maxine Bernstein
5m5 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy asked if he could seek counsel at a later date/judge said likely but can't guarantee if gets too close to trial #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
7m7 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy asks if standby counsel can write motions in his behalf & if attorney/client privilege applies-judge says yes #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
9m9 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Victoria Sharp was back in fed court to support Ryan Bundy; he winked at her and mouthed to her, 'Are you OK?' #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
10m10 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy respectful, well-spoken in court, addressing judge 'Your Honor' consistently and thanking her for her advice #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
11m11 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy adamant: 'I need to be able to speak when the time is right.' #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
12m12 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy told court he has not 'had any mental illness or anything of the sort' when asked by the judge #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
12m12 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy said he's represented himself in past, minor cases; Judge Brown found he made decision voluntarily & knowingly #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
14m14 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Defense lawyer Andrew Bates withdrew as Ryan Bundy's lawyer; Lisa Ludwig named as his 'standby' counsel #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
15m15 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy tells court:'I choose to be able to bring those things myself rather than relating it through another'#Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
17m17 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy said he saw his brother Ammon Bundy silenced in a prior hearing & doesn't want that to happen to him #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
18m18 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy told judge: 'I feel it very important that I need not be silenced when I need to be able to speak.' #Oregonstandoff

*

Maxine Bernstein
19m19 minutes ago
Maxine Bernstein ‏@maxoregonian
Ryan Bundy waived his right to a lawyer after judge informed him of potential serious risks of doing so #Oregonstandoff
 
i.b.nora said:
A very helpful (imo) animated diagram:

Chaotic scene of LaVoy Finicum shooting, explained (graphic animation)
By The Oregonian/OregonLive
on March 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/finicum_shooting_scale_diagram.html#incart_gallery

I continue to be bothered by the actions of the FBI surrounding the shooting of Finicum. I really want to trust them, but ... I don't.
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The FBI agents where damn lucky. If they had been successful at executing him on their first attempt, the out of control vehicle would have ran head on into their road block, and probably would have injured or killed LEOs.

There is no possible legal justification for the actions of the LEOs in this case. They violated the law to make a martyr out of him. It just doesn’t make any sense.
 
KaaBoom said:
The FBI agents where damn lucky. If they had been successful at executing him on their first attempt, the out of control vehicle would have ran head on into their road block, and probably would have injured or killed LEOs.

There is no possible legal justification for the actions of the LEOs in this case. They violated the law to make a martyr out of him. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, according to everything of an official nature that I have read and heard about this case, the first three long distance shots at the moving vehicle were fired by OSP. (As can be seen in the animated diagram).

A total of two shots were fired by one FBI guy, and those were fired as Finicum exited the car with his hands up. Those are the shots that the FBI failed to disclose. And, those and that are what I am extremely bothered by.

The final three shots by OSP, while unfortunate, and maybe not even necessary (if only there could be do-overs), I can see with my own eyes the situation they were facing and the decisions they chose to make. Too bad they didn't leave it up to the guy with the tazer. It all happened so fast.

If only they all had peashooters instead of guns, no one would be dead.
 
i.b.nora said:
Just to be clear, according to everything of an official nature that I have read and heard about this case, the first three long distance shots at the moving vehicle were fired by OSP. (As can be seen in the animated diagram).

A total of two shots were fired by one FBI guy, and those were fired as Finicum exited the car with his hands up. Those are the shots that the FBI failed to disclose. And, those and that are what I am extremely bothered by.

The final three shots by OSP, while unfortunate, and maybe not even necessary (if only there could be do-overs), I can see with my own eyes the situation they were facing and the decisions they chose to make. Too bad they didn't leave it up to the guy with the tazer. It all happened so fast.

If only they all had peashooters instead of guns, no one would be dead.
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That would seem to be correct. I agree.

My point would be that the SCOTUS has ruled that police may not use deadly force unless the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others. Since shooting the driver doesn’t stop the vehicle and actually increases the threat of death to LEOs I would argue that they have no legal right to shoot at a vehicle like that.

This is just another example of terrible police training, at all levels. First they endangered themselves by shooting at a vehicle coming toward them, which would have then crashed into them, if they had been successful in shooting the driver. Then they endangered each other with wild crossfire shooting.

If any of them would have been properly trained, they would never have fired at the vehicle. Instead they would have used that time to get themselves to safe locations behind trees. Then they would have negotiated with Finicum to surrender. Their vehicle was disabled, they weren’t going anywhere. They could have negotiated all night.
 
KaaBoom said:
That would seem to be correct. I agree.

My point would be that the SCOTUS has ruled that police may not use deadly force unless the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the officer or others. Since shooting the driver doesn’t stop the vehicle and actually increases the threat of death to LEOs I would argue that they have no legal right to shoot at a vehicle like that.

This is just another example of terrible police training, at all levels. First they endangered themselves by shooting at a vehicle coming toward them, which would have then crashed into them, if they had been successful in shooting the driver. Then they endangered each other with wild crossfire shooting.

If any of them would have been properly trained, they would never have fired at the vehicle. Instead they would have used that time to get themselves to safe locations behind trees. Then they would have negotiated with Finicum to surrender. Their vehicle was disabled, they weren’t going anywhere. They could have negotiated all night.
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In all fairness, I know some of the Sheriff's and deputies from various counties involved here. They do not EVER face situations like these. These are small rural communities. The FBI perhaps needed more training. There are not situations or enough funds for the various Sheriff's to get the training needed here. They just fear for their lives.
 
Cricket99 said:
In all fairness, I know some of the Sheriff's and deputies from various counties involved here. They do not EVER face situations like these. These are small rural communities. The FBI perhaps needed more training. There are not situations or enough funds for the various Sheriff's to get the training needed here. They just fear for their lives.
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FBI needed more training? The alleged shooters are members of the Hostage Rescue Team. Do you think these people could possibly receive any more training than they already have?

The Hostage Rescue Team is a highly trained unit that was formed after the massacre at the Munich Olympics in 1972. Many operators were once in the U.S. military and served in the Joint Special Operations Command.

Team operators, who are expert marksmen, have repeatedly deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq,*embedding with Navy SEAL and Delta Force commandos.*Most recently, the FBI unit has been working with Delta Force in Iraq.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...cbf4d8-eb88-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
Cricket99 said:
In all fairness, I know some of the Sheriff's and deputies from various counties involved here. They do not EVER face situations like these. These are small rural communities. The FBI perhaps needed more training. There are not situations or enough funds for the various Sheriff's to get the training needed here. They just fear for their lives.
Click to expand...

Which is irrelevant, since no sheriff's or deputies were involved in this. It was the FBI and the OSP. But even small rural communities need to properly train their LEOs, so they don’t do something stupid, that could cost someone their life. If the FBI and the state police are not getting the proper training, then no LEOs are.

Poorly trained LEOs are a serious threat to every single person in this country.
 
rotary_dial said:
FBI needed more training? The alleged shooters are members of the Hostage Rescue Team. Do you think these people could possibly receive any more training than they already have?
Click to expand...

And yet, they failed, and are now under investigation for it. All LEOs in this country need to be retrained, 100%. This is the best we have, and they couldn’t even arrest this guy without killing him.

Every year thousands of Americans are killed by the police this way. Hundreds of them are totally unarmed, when they are killed. LEOs should not be killing people just because they may have a gun. Especially in a country where a lot of people have guns.
 
Bundy son, another defendant held without bail in Bunkerville standoff

Two more defendants, including one of Cliven Bundy’s sons, were ordered held without bail Monday as they await trial on felony charges stemming from the 2014 armed standoff with law enforcement near Bunkerville.

Melvin Bundy, 41, of Nevada, and Gregory P. Burleson, 52, of Arizona, were detained in federal custody as dangers to the community. Both have pleaded not guilty.
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ssistant U.S. Attorney Nadia Ahmen said in court that Bundy was “willing to kill cops” during the showdown and had a “deep-rooted disregard for federal authority.”

His defense lawyer, Louis Gaffney argued that prosecutors were portraying Bundy as “guilty by association” in the case and that his actions in the Bunkerville confrontation were non-violent as a form of protest.

But in ordering him detained, U.S. Magistrate Judge Peggy Leen said she was concerned about Bundy’s conduct and what he might do in the future.

Burleson, who is now blind, sat shackled in a wheelchair in the courtroom. He faces 11 counts in the anti-government conspiracy.
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http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/l...endant-held-without-bail-bunkerville-standoff

Ranking federal officials traveling Monday to Burns

Two high-ranking federal officials will travel to Harney County Monday, where they will meet with employees affected by the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

Sally Jewell, U.S. Secretary of the Interior, and Michael L. Connor, U.S. Deputy Interior Secretary, will also meet with community and tribal leaders during afternoon sessions in Burns.

Jewell and Connor will meet with Harney County officials, the High Desert Partnership, the Burns Paiute Tribe and public land management employees. Jewell will also hold a brief media availability about her visit.
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http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2016/03/ranking_federal_officials_trav.html
 
Ryan HaasVerified account ‏@ryanjhaas 2m2 minutes ago
Court releases name redacted in #Oregonstandoff. Jake Ryan charged with conspiracy, possession of weapons, and damaging gov't property
 
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