OR - Public health emergency declared over measles anti-vax hotspot near Portland and NY, Jan 2019

[BetteDavisEyes]

Measles outbreak: NYC threatens closing yeshivas that let in unvaccinated students

There have been 285 cases of measles in Brooklyn and Queens since October, most of them involving members of the Orthodox Jewish community.

 

[Medstudies]

People fly into this country without being "inspected" all the time. It's how the flu spreads.

My parents immigrated to this country legally. They weren't "inspected".

I'm not sure why anyone would think there's an issue with this. It seems like propaganda meant to foster fear of immigrants.

Unless you're going to close all the borders permanently and not allow anyone in or out ever, you can't stop people from potentially traveling here with a disease.

I'm sorry but this is not an issue and is not logical.

Immigrants aren't medically inspected. And there is no reason to fear that people illegally crossing a border or overstaying a visa, which is the bulk of illegal immigrants, somehow carry more diseases than other people traveling here.

Exactly. Cases in point: Ebola cases of 2014-2016.
SARS cases in 2003 that spread to 29 countries. Viruses don’t recognize borders or ideology.

I really don’t feel like getting verified as an expert in medical research/clinical trials. (30 years) Because the anti-vaxxers minds are made up. So I’ll just add: “everything Gitana1 said”

 

[gitana1]

I think the person who was writing about "without inspection" is referring to people who enter the country without going through customs and border control. Those that enter without inspection are in this country illegally. Inspection refers to documents.
This is a link to explain how the government uses the terminology: entering the us without inspection

Back in the day when we had quarantine stations like on Ellis Island, the question of health was a bit easier to determine as people were on boats for a week or more crossing oceans. So, diseases were already spreading or not spreading. Keeping people in isolation for diseases like consumption (now known as TB) was easier to determine. However, we don't inspect in the same way today. You are asked if you are ill or if you have travelled to places with things like Ebola. No one to my knowledge is curtailing people from entering the US with diseases like measles prevalent in their communities. See WHO site (Measles and Rubella Surveillance Data)

Yes but then why is the OP stating that we have this serious problem with unvaccinated "illegals" entering the country without being inspected?

I've never been asked if I'm ill when traveling internationally. That happens occasionally if there's a serious Ebola outbreak. Otherwise, nope.

And no one has ever asked me at any border for my vaccination record. They don't do that for people immigrating here either.

The point is an illogical one. It doesn't make sense.

1. Immigrants aren't medically inspected.
2. Travelers to this country aren't medically inspected at borders except in the very rare case of an Ebola outbreak.
3. Neither travelers nor immigrants entering legally are required to show proof of vaccination records.
4. People south of the border have good vaccination rates.
5. Most immigrants come here via plane and via visa.
6. Most "illegals" simply overstay a visa.
7. Illegal immigrants aren't dirtier or more disease ridden than Americans.

 

[gitana1]

Measles outbreak: NYC threatens closing yeshivas that let in unvaccinated students

There have been 285 cases of measles in Brooklyn and Queens since October, most of them involving members of the Orthodox Jewish community.

From the article:

"Some see the small risks associated with vaccines and the risk of contracting diseases that have "been largely eliminated" as equal, and so subscribe to the Talmudic dictum that translates to “in some cases of doubt, better to sit and do nothing,” according to Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin, content editor for Chabad.org.

But some New York rabbis have called parents to act and get their children vaccinated."

I think it depends on the sect as to whether they're vaccinators or not. The article explains the attitude of those who don't.

I'm glad there have been no serious complications or deaths. Why does the measles have to be so contagious?

Ugh.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Washtenaw County releases list of potential measles exposure locations

1 case confirmed in Washtenaw County

 

[Inthedetails]

Washtenaw County releases list of potential measles exposure locations

1 case confirmed in Washtenaw County

Washtenaw County is in Michigan.

I think including all places is good - maybe the thread name can be changed to reflect the broader discussion on the thread?

Once again, WS increased my geography knowledge.

jmo

 

[PrairieWind]

While I am strong supporter of religious freedom, I believe religious exemptions from vaccinations should be eliminated. In part because it doesn't really make sense. With very very few exceptions, most faiths don't have any actual objections to vaccinations. So its really an abused exemption.

 

[kaen]

Yes but then why is the OP stating that we have this serious problem with unvaccinated "illegals" entering the country without being inspected?

I've never been asked if I'm ill when traveling internationally. That happens occasionally if there's a serious Ebola outbreak. Otherwise, nope.

And no one has ever asked me at any border for my vaccination record. They don't do that for people immigrating here either.

The point is an illogical one. It doesn't make sense.

1. Immigrants aren't medically inspected.
2. Travelers to this country aren't medically inspected at borders except in the very rare case of an Ebola outbreak.
3. Neither travelers nor immigrants entering legally are required to show proof of vaccination records.
4. People south of the border have good vaccination rates.
5. Most immigrants come here via plane and via visa.
6. Most "illegals" simply overstay a visa.
7. Illegal immigrants aren't dirtier or more disease ridden than Americans.

Agree on every single point. Yes. Yes. Yes. In fact, the locus of the NY outbreak comes from people who do not vaccinate and travel to enclaves in Israel that have outbreaks and don't vaccinate as well. This is not about illegal immigration as much as it is about religious exemption of vaccination. Education needs to happen. Public Health officials need to quarantine communities and people who refuse to vaccinate. This is much more serious than the idea of holding a chicken pox party so you don't have to vaccinate your kids.

 

[kaen]

While I am strong supporter of religious freedom, I believe religious exemptions from vaccinations should be eliminated. In part because it doesn't really make sense. With very very few exceptions, most faiths don't have any actual objections to vaccinations. So its really an abused exemption.

While I can agree that the religious exemption is over played. I do know of religions that do object. I am not sure how to "make sure that all are vaccinated" even if the exemptions are voided.

 

[kaen]

Washtenaw County releases list of potential measles exposure locations

1 case confirmed in Washtenaw County

For goodness sakes, one of the places that had exposure was a child care. Infants and the very young (first dose at 12-15 months with second at 4-6 years) are not routinely given the MMR. Makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[kaen]

From the article:

"Some see the small risks associated with vaccines and the risk of contracting diseases that have "been largely eliminated" as equal, and so subscribe to the Talmudic dictum that translates to “in some cases of doubt, better to sit and do nothing,” according to Rabbi Yehuda Shurpin, content editor for Chabad.org.

But some New York rabbis have called parents to act and get their children vaccinated."

I think it depends on the sect as to whether they're vaccinators or not. The article explains the attitude of those who don't.

I'm glad there have been no serious complications or deaths. Why does the measles have to be so contagious?

Ugh.

I think the lack of access to media and internet in some communities means that families make decisions based on community thought processes. Issues that come up are government interference in parental decision-making and the issue that the vaccine will lead to developmental disorders. In the vacuum of information, many groups are opting out. It is dangerous, indeed.

"Around the globe, measles infections were responsible for 110,000 deaths in 2017, the most recent statistical year. Most of them were children under 5." Measles rarely kills in the US -- but when it does, this is how it will happen - CNN

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

There's an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit that deals with a mother who chooses not to vaccinate her child. The episode starts out channeling the Casey Anthony case but ends up being more about the mother who doesn't have her son vaccinated. Worthwhile viewing.

"Law & Order: Special Victims Unit" Selfish (TV Episode 2009) - IMDb

Selfish
An immature, irresponsible young mother is assumed to have killed her child, but it turns out to be part of a measles outbreak. A.D.A. Cabot then goes after the mother of the child who started the outbreak, who refused to immunize him.

 

[human]

There is a part in the Bible somewhere that says a man can hit a woman with a stick about the width of a thumb. Is it a rod?

There are things in the Bible about stoning.

There is female genital mutilation. Some think circumcising is just as bad.

We already do not allow those religious ideas .

Religion is not science.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Washtenaw County is in Michigan.

I think including all places is good - maybe the thread name can be changed to reflect the broader discussion on the thread?

Once again, WS increased my geography knowledge.

jmo

Washtenaw County is west of metro Detroit and home to the University of Michigan. Local media outlets seem to have a measles report almost daily lately.

 

[Inthedetails]

While I can agree that the religious exemption is over played. I do know of religions that do object. I am not sure how to "make sure that all are vaccinated" even if the exemptions are voided.

I think some exemptions have to exist. We can't force an injection on people, can we? But, we can do the things we do - you can't register for school without up-to-date vaccines, for example - that ensure that people in large numbers comply.

But I think the emphasis needs to be on public education - and not vilification that just makes people hide or dig in their heels more.

We changed American ideas about smoking, drinking and driving, etc. and we can change minds about vaccines as well. Reaching pocket communities will be a challenge and will likely require an ally within the community, but it's certainly not impossible.

The continued name-calling and vilification will not help at all.

jmo

 

[Only4Justice]

Yeah I was persuaded by the anectodal evidence. Parent after parent. Child after child. So many cases of kids who seemed fine before the shot and developed autism symptoms directly after.

But then I read the research. Really read it. Study upon study. It's clear. Kids who are not vaccinated develop autism at the exact same rates. No difference.

Then I started remembering some things about the numerous videos and books I've read about autism. And do you know what else seemed to precipitate the regression? A cold. The flu. An operation. Bad allergies.

It seems that anything that affects the immune system or the body systemically can trigger the development of regressive autism in a child. But it doesn't matter if they avoid vaccines. Something is going to trigger it at some point. You can't prevent kids from getting colds. Even if the effect of vaccines on the immune system triggers it in some kids (and there's no proof of this), the studies are definitive. There is no increase in rates of diagnosis. Period.

And as to the speculation that big pharma funded the studies so they must be faked, here's the deal:

1. For the conspiracy theory to be real, there would have to be the impossibility of not one leak ever of anyone admitting numbers were fudged.

2. We would have to accept that most doctors and scientists (who support vaccines and the studies) are evil and want to harm children or are fatally stupid.

3. We would have to ignore this logic: Health insurance companies are for profit (with the exception of Kaiser). It's about shareholders and stock prices. It's about profit. Health insurance companies push vaccines like mad. All the childhood vaccines and flu vaccines each year, which only reduce the risk of flu.

Why?

There is zero proof of any big pharma kickbacks. None. If there were such kickbacks there would be multiple lawsuits about that.

There is no way such kickbacks would be able to remain secret.

Mathematically, the amount of any such kick backs would be prohibitive. Even for big pharma. Why? Because it would have to be massively huge enough to make up for the costs to the insurance companies to treat all the people anti-vaxxers claims are made ill or injured from vaccines. They make numerous claims about such injuries. If there was one shred of evidence correlating vaccines with more than rare injuries or with all the illnesses anti-vaxxers now claim vaccines cause, no way would health insurance companies push them.

Because they bear the costs of treating ill insured and insurance companies are all about keeping people healthy with the minimal amount of treatment and preventative measure possible.

The fact is, vaccines prevent serious illnesses. They reduce the risk of dangerous illness. They work.

100%? No. Nothing is always perfect. But enough that insurance companies who play the numbers game, know how necessary vaccines are.

Thanks gitana1.

 

[Only4Justice]

Health officials now confirm 41 measles cases in Oakland, Wayne, Washtenaw counties

Note: I hope no one minds my posting reports on what is happening in metro Detroit even thought the thread is about the measles crisis in Oregon. The issue of measles among unvaccinated children is prevalent in other parts of the country.

Thanks BDE. I’m in Michigan and it’s spreading.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think some exemptions have to exist. We can't force an injection on people, can we? But, we can do the things we do - you can't register for school without up-to-date vaccines, for example - that ensure that people in large numbers comply.

But I think the emphasis needs to be on public education - and not vilification that just makes people hide or dig in their heels more.

We changed American ideas about smoking, drinking and driving, etc. and we can change minds about vaccines as well. Reaching pocket communities will be a challenge and will likely require an ally within the community, but it's certainly not impossible.

The continued name-calling and vilification will not help at all.

jmo

I think it is school registration where vaccinations really are "enforced" (for lack of a better word).
But I totally agree with you that vilification is not the route to go. We need to talk "with" them, not "at" them or "down" to them. There are lots of different reasons why people are against vaccinations and their concerns should be listened to and addressed, not ignored or shouted down.

 

[human]

I think some exemptions have to exist. We can't force an injection on people, can we? But, we can do the things we do - you can't register for school without up-to-date vaccines, for example - that ensure that people in large numbers comply.

But I think the emphasis needs to be on public education - and not vilification that just makes people hide or dig in their heels more.

We changed American ideas about smoking, drinking and driving, etc. and we can change minds about vaccines as well. Reaching pocket communities will be a challenge and will likely require an ally within the community, but it's certainly not impossible.

The continued name-calling and vilification will not help at all.

jmo

Even where I live in a Third World country, there are very rich people living on sailboats that do not vaccinate and they homeschool.There is universal healthcare here.

You do not have to vaccinate your children but then you are no longer entitled to free health care.

The anti vaxx movement has spread in Europe as well.

To me, it is not a matter of being tolerant. What exactly is their right to put people at risk? We do not allow risky driving . Why do we allow people to infect others!

 

[Inthedetails]

Even where I live in a Third World country, there are very rich people living on sailboats that do not vaccinate and they homeschool.There is universal healthcare here.

You do not have to vaccinate your children but then you are no longer entitled to free health care.

The anti vaxx movement has spread in Europe as well.

To me, it is not a matter of being tolerant. What exactly is their right to put people at risk? We do not allow risky driving . Why do we allow people to infect others!

I didn't say non-vaccination should be tolerated. Quite the opposite. I suggest public education can change people's minds about vaccinations and convince them to vaccinate.

jmo