OR OR - Union Co, Finley Creek Jane Doe, UnsFem 14-25, UP11902, preg, on wooded hillside, Aug'78

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Al Ka said:
Someone online suggested under my post on this case 19 year old Debra Ann Wilhite missing since 1974, possibly pregnant. Her details are quite interesting with relation to this case and I do think there is also some resemblance with the sketch.

Jason is it possible to check it out?

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Details - Debra Ann Wilhite – The Charley Project
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Yes! Similarities for sure.
 
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carbuff said:
Also, it's easier to exclude someone than it is to confirm their identity. Even a small discrepancy can eliminate a possible match, but confirming it can take years, literally.
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Yes, you’re quite right. That is easier.

I think there are several cases discussed here where there is a pretty good idea of who the unidentified person is but he/she can’t be ruled in or out because identifiers are missing with current technology.
As an aside, I saw a couple of cases added to the Doe Network recently which were unidentified women found in California in the early 70’s, skeletal remains. However, didn’t California cremate their unidentified then? That would likely make those cases unsolvable.
 
Captain Beck said:
Yes, you’re quite right. That is easier.

I think there are several cases discussed here where there is a pretty good idea of who the unidentified person is but he/she can’t be ruled in or out because identifiers are missing with current technology.
As an aside, I saw a couple of cases added to the Doe Network recently which were unidentified women found in California in the early 70’s, skeletal remains. However, didn’t California cremate their unidentified then? That would likely make those cases unsolvable.
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I'm under the impression Los Angeles City and Los Angeles County cremated, due to the sheer volume of cases, but many smaller counties didn't.
 
Peskysleuth said:
My apologies if I am mistaken, but doesn't the dental report for the Jane Doe show she's missing molars?
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According to the dental chart I have, as well as the photos, she is not missing any teeth. She had extensive dental work done which included numerous amalgam fillings. She did have a flipper style device but it was for one of the maxillary teeth.

ks-ch said:
@JasonFutchLakeCityFL
Hi, Jason, could you please elaborate on how a comparison/exclusion is made when an unidentified person doesn't have DNA data but has for example dentals or fingerprint and a possible match doesn't have dentals, but has DNA data. And vice versa (I mean, whatever variable that does not allow for a direct comparison). I am baffled to be honest...
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Essentially in this case, unless there is a chance of obtaining DNA from her cremains (if they can be found), its going to come down to dental records explicitly identifying this woman. Unfortunately, if there is a missing person that matches Jane Doe to the T but has no dental records, its going to be considered inconclusive. If the medical examiner doesn't have anything to go on other than just dentals, its going to be tough identifying her. Already, Mel and I have submitted potential matches, and we got hit back with rule outs simply because these missing individuals like Roxanne Sims, did not have dental records submitted. When we met with Dr. Vance back in May, she made clear that if the missing person we submitted did not have dentals, it would likely be ruled out; but welcomed us to resubmit should DNA somehow be found.
 
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Captain Beck said:
Yes, you’re quite right. That is easier.

I think there are several cases discussed here where there is a pretty good idea of who the unidentified person is but he/she can’t be ruled in or out because identifiers are missing with current technology.
As an aside, I saw a couple of cases added to the Doe Network recently which were unidentified women found in California in the early 70’s, skeletal remains. However, didn’t California cremate their unidentified then? That would likely make those cases unsolvable.
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Yep! A perfect example is Plaquemine Parish John Doe, who was found hanging from a tree in Louisiana in the 1970s. Its been heavily believed that hes a missing boy from the SE United States, but can't be conclusively confirmed because the John Doe's case file was destroyed in a hurricane, and his body is missing. No evidence, no DNA, NOTHING. It's next to impossible pretty much to solve that case...but I wouldn't say all hope is lost. Never give up.

Regarding the California Cremains...Yeah, Does and unclaimed identified bodies were cremated in California because of the overwhelming amount of bodies that would come in (LA County is pretty dang big lol). I remember watching a documentary on YouTube about the process. If I recall, bodies not claimed after 60 days were cremated, then sat in a shelf for a year. If they were not claimed then, the cremains would be dumped in a mass grave with a headstone that marked the year the cremains were dumped en mass. Now, I think they still cremate, but not without taking DNA and preserving evidence. Which helped emmensly in the Reet Jurvetson case from 1969.
 
JasonFutchLakeCityFL said:
Regarding the California Cremains...Yeah, Does and unclaimed identified bodies were cremated in California because of the overwhelming amount of bodies that would come in (LA County is pretty dang big lol). I remember watching a documentary on YouTube about the process. If I recall, bodies not claimed after 60 days were cremated, then sat in a shelf for a year. If they were not claimed then, the cremains would be dumped in a mass grave with a headstone that marked the year the cremains were dumped en mass. Now, I think they still cremate, but not without taking DNA and preserving evidence. Which helped emmensly in the Reet Jurvetson case from 1969.
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I’ve seen that documentary too. There is a scene in Bosch, the Amazon series, where Harry Bosch and Maddie go to a cemetary where his mother is buried. She was a homicide victim, cremated and her ashes were put in one of these graves with just a small marker with the year on it.

But is it possible to get a quality DNA sample from cremated remains?

Is it certain that she was cremated?
I re-read the thread and apparently, according to DA Mammen, it wasn’t protocol at the time. Then there is that 1990 decision to close the case and dispose of evidence etc.
 
According to this site, (DNA Testing on Cremated remains | EasyDNA USA)
"When it comes to extracting DNA from the bone shards of the deceased that has been cremated, it is important to understand that the chances of success are low. The extreme heat tends to destroy all the DNA in the body although in some cases we may be able to find some DNA that was spared from destruction by the heat in the furnace"
So you probably won't have great odds but it is theoretically possible.
 
Captain Beck said:
I’ve seen that documentary too. There is a scene in Bosch, the Amazon series, where Harry Bosch and Maddie go to a cemetary where his mother is buried. She was a homicide victim, cremated and her ashes were put in one of these graves with just a small marker with the year on it.

But is it possible to get a quality DNA sample from cremated remains?

Is it certain that she was cremated?
I re-read the thread and apparently, according to DA Mammen, it wasn’t protocol at the time. Then there is that 1990 decision to close the case and dispose of evidence etc.
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victoriarobinson642 said:
According to this site, (DNA Testing on Cremated remains | EasyDNA USA)
"When it comes to extracting DNA from the bone shards of the deceased that has been cremated, it is important to understand that the chances of success are low. The extreme heat tends to destroy all the DNA in the body although in some cases we may be able to find some DNA that was spared from destruction by the heat in the furnace"
So you probably won't have great odds but it is theoretically possible.
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To pretty much sum it up...there is a very low chance of a quality DNA sample from cremains in general. We were able to confirm with the mortuary in Walla Walla, Washington (based on an internal paper trail that took Mel over a month to find), that this Jane Doe WAS indeed cremated at the mortuary in 1990. However, based on a recent update, the mortuary and Dr. Vance confirmed that when the cremains were done being processed, they would be returned to the proper jurisdiction. WITH THAT SAID...

Mel and the group have not been able to recover the cremains yet. So until either myself or the group can find them, there is zero chance of finding DNA anywhere else. But we have been in touch with Othram Genomics Labs. We were told that they could actually amplify any DNA that was found in the cremains if they are found and make usable DNA out of it. They were able to recently do this on some charred remains found in Missouri in 1980, identified as "Harry". Harry (1979)

Unfortunately, Dr. Vance can't sign off on Othram testing the remains unless a formal meeting was to take place with them and the MEO. I'm hoping that it will happen, and maybe FCJD could be a case study for the ages should this happen!
 
JasonFutchLakeCityFL said:
[...] this Jane Doe WAS indeed cremated at the mortuary in 1990. [...]
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The importance of paper trails can’t be stressed enough... I spend a large part of my job reading verdicts, official documents, old investigations, records, newspaper articles etc.

So there is still hope, that’s promising.

Whenever I read about an unidentifed female who died between 1968 and 1974 in the Pacific Northwest I think of Ted Bundy but he apparently isn’t a suspect here.
 
Was Christine Marie Eastin ever considered.
Christine Marie Eastin – The Charley Project

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

UID found 1978, Estimated year of death 1970 - 1975 Christine Missing since 1971 from Hayward, Ca. an approx. 13 hours drive to Union County.
Estimated Age: 14-18 years old, according to the clippings/Namus between 17 and 25 yrs. Christine 19 years
Race: Uncertain/according to the clippings/Namus Caucasian Christine Caucasian
Height: 5'1" to 5'3" Estimated 5'2 Christine 5'7
Weight: 115-125 lbs. Estimated 120 lbs, slender built Christine 110 lbs
Hair Color: Light brown to blonde Sandy colored Christine Blonde hair
Eye Color: Unknown Christine blue eyes
Distinguishing Marks/Features: She was pregnant, and likely in her 6th to 8th month of pregnancy. Clippings say the woman shared her grave with a newborn infant or a full-term (unborn, 8 to 9 months) fetus. There were rumors that Eastin was pregnant at the time of her disappearance, but this has not been confirmed.

  • Eastin bought a pair of boots while shopping.
  • In 2019, nearly fifty years after Eastin's disappearance, a witness came forward and said she'd seen Eastin being kidnapped and didn't report it at the time because she didn't realize what she was seeing. She said she saw two men at Charlie's Car Wash in a white van and caught a glimpse of the driver, but not the other man, who was putting Eastin in the back of the van.
  • Clothing: A black/brown leather coat, black boots, blue slacks, a red, white and blue pin-striped tunic and a bluish-gold scarf. UID ankle-high lace up shoes/workboots, and remnants of clothing that consisted of red cloth, white cloth, and zippers. She also wore a red Catalina pants. If she was "kept" and she was indeed pregnant she would have needed another pants with the baby growing.
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ETA

    • Dentals: Available
    • Nickname: Christy
    • Other: DNA available
The Doe Network: Case File 275DFCA
 
JasonFutchLakeCityFL said:
No evidence exists in this case. It was all destroyed in 1990 at the request of the DA at the time, Russ West. However, in the files, it still notates what was found and examined.
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That is disappointing. Short of a miracle, ie DNA from cremains, there is no way for this Jane Doe to be identified then unless a matching missing person is found and dental records match.
 
victoriarobinson642 said:
According to this site, (DNA Testing on Cremated remains | EasyDNA USA)
"When it comes to extracting DNA from the bone shards of the deceased that has been cremated, it is important to understand that the chances of success are low. The extreme heat tends to destroy all the DNA in the body although in some cases we may be able to find some DNA that was spared from destruction by the heat in the furnace"
So you probably won't have great odds but it is theoretically possible.
Click to expand...

Technology is getting better every day. Even if an extraction is unsuccessful now, it might be possible a few years or even months down the road.
 
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