GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[Ronso]

A lot of blame is being thrown around. Some people will blame religion, some will blame *advertiser censored*, some will blame mental illness.

Bottom line, to me, he just wasn't right. I don't think something like *advertiser censored* turns anyone into a monster any more than spoons make people fat. I don't think his religion had any bearing in this whatsoever either.

I think this was a long time coming, and unfortunately Whitney was the chosen victim.

 

[iamnotagolem]

To be absolutely clear, the only one/thing I am looking to blame is the perp of this heinous and senseless crime.

I am, however, curious. So, hypothetically, IF JH had wanted a divorce and had wanted the future ability to remarry within the JW faith, what were his options within the JW faith to divorce and remain in good standing with the JW hall(?)/church and guard his right to remarry? TIA

We have been repeatedly asked by mods to keep the religion discussion out of this thread. Perhaps you could start a thread in the parking lot or jury room. We are getting way off topic on this thread.

 

[Quester]

I believe that some of the religious issues may help us to understand some aspects of JH - but not that the religion is to blame.

I know very little about the JWs except for the unsolicited, repeated knocks at my door. I have learned more about JWs in a very positive light from this forum and following this case.

I meant no harm - just curious and seeking additional understanding into JH's world - I have deleted my previous post.

 

[Suzvw]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the bolded part. Anybody can divorce if they want for any reason they want. Oregon is a no-fault divorce state.

Perhaps you mean she cannot and still stay in the good graces of her church leaders? I simply cannot imagine any Christian faith that would expect a woman to stay married to a man who has done all the things JH has admitted to. I really cannot believe the JW faith would expect her to "stand by her man" under the circumstances. I am more inclined to believe they would be helping her get a divorce attorney as soon as possible.

Yes...that's what I meant. For that matter....do we know if she is a JW also? Or did she marry into it?

 

[Suzvw]

Do you have a link? Also, who's the niece/bipolar person referenced? and, as that last portion you have quoted says, he could have absolutely filed for divorce, he would not have been 'shunned' he would not have been 'disfellowshipped' for it--now, for kiddy *advertiser censored*? stalking? rape? murder?? certainly that would be a reason to not be part of the congregation, but he NOR his wife would be found 'unfit' to be part of the congregation just for divorcing.

Scriptural grounds for divorce come into play when one starts looking for a new mate.

and as for this part you said:



I am not sure why you have inferred this, whether you have misinterpreted or been misinformed, but there is not reason 'his wife can't do it', so I am curious as to how you are 'sure'.

Edit to add:
AND I can say,as an active member of the Jehovah's Witnesses religion *NO ONE* would, in ANY way shun her for any of this...and I think it's apparent from the statements released in support of her, as well as CH's support of her.

Gosh...I can totally see that you need to be extremely careful of what you say on this site Here's the link...http://www.christianforums.com/t7458802/

 

[Madeleine74]

Why does this crime have to have anything to do with JH's wife? Divorce? Where has that been published? As far as I'm concerned, the making up of facts and the fabrication of a fictional story to fit those made up facts is unnecessary and hurtful to innocent people. What understanding does making things up bring to the case?

JH's actions are his alone. His wife is not a suspect and is not involved in Whitney's assault and murder.

We know the basic facts of the case because of the published search warrant(s) and affidavits, with more to be revealed as the case gets litigated. Is it impossible to just go with what is known and verified?

 

[Really?]

Yeah, let's get back to sleuthing this criminal/killer/rapist etc.

ok, now where did he REALLY go when he disappeared last August ?

 

[Xavier]

If I was AH.. I wouldn't care what my religion said. The day I found out my husband murdered someone....I'd have myself an attorney.

No one, including "God", is going to tell me I can't divorce him.

MOO

agree with you, there should'nt be any hang ups to get a divorce going....
As for religion, I'm Catholic, and to "finalize" the dissolution of a previous marriage, one needs an Annulment. It's strange wording by the Vatican, basically says the previous marriage never existed after you receive the Annulment...Go Figure that one out, especially if children are involved, this is only one issue I've with my religion...

 

[gwenabob]

A lot of blame is being thrown around. Some people will blame religion, some will blame *advertiser censored*, some will blame mental illness.

Bottom line, to me, he just wasn't right. I don't think something like *advertiser censored* turns anyone into a monster any more than spoons make people fat. I don't think his religion had any bearing in this whatsoever either.

I think this was a long time coming, and unfortunately Whitney was the chosen victim.

Ulp. Hi, my name is gwenabob and I have a spoon addiction. It started when I was a baby and it only grew worse. First it was cereal, then grew into mashed potatoes and pudding, and now it's cookie dough and ice cream. I really need to kick this spoon habit, but I think I will need at least 12 steps to do it. Maybe more like 20.

 

[Really?]

Anybody, offhand, thats knows of a possible victim, please give me a clue.

 

[Stash777]

I haven't been on this thread for a few days, but in light of what I have read thus far in the past few pages, I not only send condolences to CH but also to AH. Trying to put myself in her shoes, I can feel her devastation. AH is also a victim, and I think we also need to keep that in mind when posting. She was brought into this because of JH's actions not hers. I understand trying to figure everything out, but I'm sure she's asking herself the same questions and if she's reading here I think it's only compounding her feelings of guilt. I think we need to be mindful and not add to the guilt of an innocent party. Even CH reached out her and sees her as a victim in this whole situation.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Okay I've been debating whether or not to post this, mostly because I can't for the life of me find the article, but since it seems it'd be more productive than discussing the innocent victims in this crime, I'll give it a go.

A few days (maybe weeks) before Whitney went missing I was looking at another missing persons case (Daniel Christensen) and while I was reading a news article I started clicking on articles at the bottom reading various news stories.

I came across an article about a girl who had gone missing and was later found deceased. I'm confident it was in the Oregon/Washington area because as soon as I read about Whitney I thought it was ironic and possibly connected. Here is the why, in the article there was discussion about her past and her previous drug history. Then it went on to say that she had changed her life and got it straightened out and was planning to be baptized soon.

I don't know of manY religions that baptize adults so I was wondering if she was going to be baptized as a JW. Then I was reading through the comments and there was a comment from a lady (can't remember her name either but her last name was fairly common like Johnson, which didn't really narrow down my search when trying to find it later) that mentioned that the deceased in the article was in her congregation and expressed her sympathies for the family. A little digging later and I discovered that she was indeed intending to be baptized as a JW.

Back to my point, when Whitney first went missing I immediately thought about the girl I'd read about and was wondering if someone was targeting JWs. Again, I absolutely can not find the article that I had read. Don't remember the girl's name just that it was in OR or WA.

Anyone want to help me on finding if there are other unsolved homicide of JWs in the area?

 

[nikb]

Anybody, offhand, thats knows of a possible victim, please give me a clue.

Do you mean other than Whitney? And of course her family, AH and her family, JH's family?

 

[Xavier]

Okay I've been debating whether or not to post this, mostly because I can't for the life of me find the article, but since it seems it'd be more productive than discussing the innocent victims in this crime, I'll give it a go.

A few days (maybe weeks) before Whitney went missing I was looking at another missing persons case (Daniel Christensen) and while I was reading a news article I started clicking on articles at the bottom reading various news stories.

I came across an article about a girl who had gone missing and was later found deceased. I'm confident it was in the Oregon/Washington area because as soon as I read about Whitney I thought it was ironic and possibly connected. Here is the why, in the article there was discussion about her past and her previous drug history. Then it went on to say that she had changed her life and got it straightened out and was planning to be baptized soon.

I don't know of manY religions that baptize adults so I was wondering if she was going to be baptized as a JW. Then I was reading through the comments and there was a comment from a lady (can't remember her name either but her last name was fairly common like Johnson, which didn't really narrow down my search when trying to find it later) that mentioned that the deceased in the article was in her congregation and expressed her sympathies for the family. A little digging later and I discovered that she was indeed intending to be baptized as a JW.

Back to my point, when Whitney first went missing I immediately thought about the girl I'd read about and was wondering if someone was targeting JWs. Again, I absolutely can not find the article that I had read. Don't remember the girl's name just that it was in OR or WA.

Anyone want to help me on finding if there are other unsolved homicide of JWs in the area?

That's a great point....I think many on this board feel many new insights from Holt will come out soon, since he seems to be comfortable telling LE just about anything they ask for...

 

[msthinksalot]

Okay I've been debating whether or not to post this, mostly because I can't for the life of me find the article, but since it seems it'd be more productive than discussing the innocent victims in this crime, I'll give it a go.

A few days (maybe weeks) before Whitney went missing I was looking at another missing persons case (Daniel Christensen) and while I was reading a news article I started clicking on articles at the bottom reading various news stories.

I came across an article about a girl who had gone missing and was later found deceased. I'm confident it was in the Oregon/Washington area because as soon as I read about Whitney I thought it was ironic and possibly connected. Here is the why, in the article there was discussion about her past and her previous drug history. Then it went on to say that she had changed her life and got it straightened out and was planning to be baptized soon.

I don't know of manY religions that baptize adults so I was wondering if she was going to be baptized as a JW. Then I was reading through the comments and there was a comment from a lady (can't remember her name either but her last name was fairly common like Johnson, which didn't really narrow down my search when trying to find it later) that mentioned that the deceased in the article was in her congregation and expressed her sympathies for the family. A little digging later and I discovered that she was indeed intending to be baptized as a JW.

Back to my point, when Whitney first went missing I immediately thought about the girl I'd read about and was wondering if someone was targeting JWs. Again, I absolutely can not find the article that I had read. Don't remember the girl's name just that it was in OR or WA.

Anyone want to help me on finding if there are other unsolved homicide of JWs in the area?

Do you remember the date/month of the article?

I've looked for missing persons, attempted abductions and rapes/attempted rapes for August 2011 in both the Portland area and Vancouver, WA. I've had no luck.

 

[Xavier]

Yeah, let's get back to sleuthing this criminal/killer/rapist etc.

ok, now where did he REALLY go when he disappeared last August ?

IMO Holt had limited funds for hotel lodging and someone mentioned hiring a prostitute, but the lack of money rules that out in my mind...I think he stayed with a buddy from work. The LE should be interviewing Holt's fellow employees on some of the questions...maybe Holt told them some "strange things" shedding light on possible other crimes or discoveries in the case.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Do you remember the date/month of the article?

I've looked for missing persons, attempted abductions and rapes/attempted rapes for August 2011 in both the Portland area and Vancouver, WA. I've had no luck.

I don't! It's killing me! I am looking through all of the cases here on websleuths to see if I can find it. I've tried googling everything I can think of from the article.

Eta: Okay, I think this is the one I read. I will see if I can find the exact article that had the comments on it. But here it is. http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-ne...ered/-/101214/13660576/-/cha3pmz/-/index.html


Looks like she went missing in March of 2012. Going from JHs interview with police he was unemployed during this time. It is about 6 hours away from Gresham. Probably not related. But I'm glad I found it, it's been driving me nuts.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

That is not correct information. They can divorce, but would not be free to remarry unless there is adultery.

There has been a lot of back and forth about divorce; bear with me--just one more comment. As what I'm about to say applies only to this situation, it regards the JW standards regarding divorce. (I'm gathering Amanda is committed to her faith; JH was the only one called 'irregular.')

In JW beliefs, divorce is only allowable if the spouse has committed adultery. A couple can separate due to abuse or other irreconcilable issues, but may not divorce if they want to retain full standing with the church.
As I understand it, sodomy qualifies with this religious group as a form of adultery (their standing on it, not the dictionary definition). That would make it permissible, then, for Amanda to divorce and remarry.

A person may only remarry, in other words, if their first spouse is either dead or has committed adultery. So Amanda, under her religion--not just our opinion--is now free to divorce and remarry.

 

[newsjunkie]

-snipped by me- So Amanda, under her religion--not just our opinion--is now free to divorce and remarry.

Yes, that would seem to be the case.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Is it impossible to just go with what is known and verified?

Possible, but not always the course in a forum full of people who think and speculate and want to know why. I've been told this forum is a place to do just that.