GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[sissylala]

I read through the last couple of pages and didn't see this, but sorry if someone already asked.

Could JH have have claimed that all those electronics were stolen so he could collect insurance of some kind since they were struggling? Maybe he thought he could get some pity gifts/cash from friends and family?

I don't see you getting much money from insurance though. When my laptop was stolen my deductible was more expensive than the laptop was worth. I could have sold it for more.

Did he claim the guns were stolen too? Might be why he was trying to get toss both of them?

 

[Desdemona]

Interesting…

Two and Two.

Two Guns. Law enforcement witnesses Holt attempt to discard two different guns (different times and places).

Two Four Lokos found at Dodge Park. As shown in photos, one of these cans is almost touching a Starbucks to-go cup. According to MSM, these items were found in close proximity to a bluish cloth with what appears to be red stains, an apron, broken car glass, and tire tread marks.

Fact about the product Four Lokos:
In Oct 2011, according to the FTC, a 23.5-ounce Four Loko contains about as much alcohol as four or five 12-ounce cans of regular beer and is not safe to drink in a single sitting.
Note: Four Lokos are not banned (only the recipe has changed to take out the “energy” part of it - cans with the old recipe are banned).

So, if these Four Lokos did belong to Holt and were consuming only by Holt, it would mean in the time span between 6:50am, when he first pulled out his gun on Whitney and took command of her vehicle, and approximately 8:40 (or slightly later if he dropped off the items on the way back through Dodge Park), Holt had consumed the equivalent of 8 beers before reaching the Shell station.

The article at this link --

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/loca...arrest-in-Gresham/f5wcBhlf0kG7-NChnzHypA.cspx

-- contains a photo of a cloth with pink/red stains, a Starbucks cup, a large gray roughly square item, and the two FourLoko cans mentioned. The photo does not appear to show broken glass, nor an apron (unless the red-stained cloth is the apron?). The article states that the FourLoko cans were found at Dodge Park by "search crews:"


"Search crews then went to Dodge Park in Clackamas County. There they found a number of items -- such as empty Four Loko cans and a vehicle floor mat -- described as "out of place." "

However, if you click on the photo and read its caption, it states that the items were photographed on Larch Mountain. Which is correct? Dodge Park or Larch Mountain?

Also, FWIW, is the gray square item in the photo an Explorer floor mat? I searched for some images but couldn't find a match to the item in the photo. Maybe someone else will be able to link it up.

The photo:

The caption:

"Investigators are scouring Larch Mountain in connection with the disappearance of Whitney Heichel. Here are some items that were found Thursday morning, described by deputies on the scene as "out of place" for the mountain. Oct. 18, 2012."

"Were found" where, and by whom? Photographed by whom? Did LE photograph these items as part of their investigation, then release the photo to the media? I highly doubt it. Not sure who took the photo; could it have been the reporter, or a news photographer? A local? Surely not one of Whitney's family/friends who participated in the search for her, then released the photo to KOIN? IMO, it would be helpful to the discussion to know where the photo was taken and who took it.

Trying to recall, but don't remember whether some/all of these items were listed in the docs as collected evidence? I could have missed it, though. Were they? Do we know for sure they are connected to Whitney's case?

IMO, there is no way at this point to know who these cans belonged to, who drank the FL and the coffee and when, how many persons consumed them both/all, or over what time period, whether the three beverages were consumed completely, who discarded them and when, or even whether they are related to what happened to poor Whitney.

If they do prove to be connected, perhaps they would be a treasure trove of DNA and fingerprint (and possibly blood) evidence?

:twocents:

 

[Joe Friday]

Looks like the same floor mate to me.

Photo from a forum for Ford Explorer Enthusiasts. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303902&page=9

 

[Desdemona]

With all of Whitney's clothes, personal things found littered on the roadside, etc, it's never been mentioned if she was found clothed or not? It seems the searchers from the church, family, friends, LE found ALOT of her things strewn about on the various driving routes Holt took....

Also, IMO I think Whitney put up a struggle, resisted some, Holt wanted more sex, realized Whitney was'nt going to submit to more humiliation, fought and shot her point blank in the front seat. During the struggle Holt or Whitney had a tooth chipped off or knocked out. Then because LE found large clumps of hair, Holt got out, went to the passenger rear door, pulled Whitney over the front seat by her hair. They said Holt has good strength as a former "football star"/high school jock. Once she's in the back seat folded down, he shoots again and again...sheesh.

Getting my head around that entire scene is just gut wrenching..this must've been a vicious fight.

From comments I've read Holt's marriage was'nt going well and maybe Whitney had ignored Holt for awhile, maybe she confronted Holt about missing items in her home while Holt "baby sat " their apartment? So maybe she had ignored him and did'nt trust him...therefore forcing her at gunpoint in the SUV morning ride.....if so, the two "closest women" so to speak in Holt's life are distancing themselves from him...add that Holt already has a twisted head and maybe this loss of affection pushed him over the edge into the monster he became.

ICBW, but when I read about the tooth or tooth fragment found on the floorboard (*shudder*), I imagined that to have been a result of Whitney having been shot. IMO that might be more likely than having her tooth knocked out in a fight. IMO, perhaps JH would have had more obvious marks or injuries on him if he'd been in a big physical fight, but that's all mere speculation at this point.

Not sure if there is evidence of a vicious fight/struggle at all; for all we know, she could have been drugged or restrained. Not sure about large clumps of hair. Not sure about the idea of all or a LOT of Whitney's personal articles being strewn along the roadside over a large area along several routes, since we've not had confirmation that I'm aware of, on several of the reported items found. (Some items were found in a dumpster or dumpsters, though.) Not sure about her being shot in the front seat, nor about her being shot because she refused further humiliation or 'sex,' though of course that's just theorizing, NP. Ditto with her having rejected or spurned JH's previous advances/attention, though it is certainly possible. ..

JMO

 

[Desdemona]

Looks like the same floor mate to me.

Photo from a forum for Ford Explorer Enthusiasts. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303902&page=9

Yes, thank you. This was the only one I found that somewhat approximated the item in the photo; however, what are the little marks all around the perimeter of the edge of the gray item in the [ETA: KOIN news site] photo? Thanks!

 

[Joe Friday]

Yes, thank you. This was the only one I found that somewhat approximated the item in the photo; however, what are the little marks all around the perimeter of the edge of the gray item in the photo? Thanks!

Those are screws. They guy used an old floor mat to cover a hole or something on the Explorer he was working on.

 

[Desdemona]

(Snipped for space and BBM)

Did I miss somewhere that it was said that JH had taken two guns with him the morning he shot Whitney?

I was figuring he was hiding all his guns from his apartment/car/backpack just in case a search was done by LE. It's a darn good thing LE had surveillance on him when he was disposing of his guns the morning before his interview.

As an aside, if he did take more than one firearm, it could have been a precaution (preparation, ugh) in case one gun jammed.

A link to the thinking behind this:

http://www.ccijax.com/action/index.php/main/index-single/a_silent_partner/

REASONS FOR CARRYING A BACKUP WEAPON
There are three main reasons for considering the presence of a backup gun, and for the purpose of this text it will be assumed the weapon in question is a handgun.
1. You may lose possession of your p[ri]mary weapon.
2. There may be a mechanical malfunction or a lack of ammo with or for your primary weapon.
3. You may be unable to access your primary weapon because of a tactical situation or injury.​

 

[Desdemona]

Those are screws. They guy used an old floor mat to cover a hole or something on the Explorer he was working on.

LOL, yes, yes I know about those 'modifications'; I did see that, and read the post the guy made about his project.

No, not in that pic. ---> I was referring to the dark spots visible around the perimeter of the gray item in the photo published by KOIN, apparently evenly spaced:

Holes? Grommets? I couldn't find one that looked like that. Thanks.

 

[Quester]

A post up-thread got me to wondering if there was a sexual assault in this case.

IF the perp had murdered and no sexual assault took place (or no claim of sexual assault took place) would the wife be able to divorce, stay in good standing and remarry?

Was any evidence of a sexual assault found by the ME or LE from the search of the SUV, clothing, discarded items, etc?

 

[Desdemona]

No problem, and I can certainly appreciate your perspective about this, given your horrible experience. I was entirely referring to the perp's mode of experience in this crime (whatever position--who knows, really), and what that might say about him, along with examining the 'type' of perp who would shoot a beautiful girl 2x in the face and 2x in the chest--a cold-blooded, probably even experienced murderer.

Was Whitney shot twice in the face ?? :what:

OMG, I had not heard that.

And twice in the chest?

How did we learn this information? Sorry, I missed it. Don't mean to be a pest, but how do we know this? Is this new info from JH's accounts admitted to LE? Or was an autopsy report released? Media? Again, sorry I missed it. How upsetting! And how very sad. I feel so terrible for her family... and his, too. Heartbreak, all the way around.

Ah, and I don't agree at all that Holt telling LE he forced Whitney to 'perform oral sex on him' in any way contradicts the likelihood that he did indeed abduct her at gunpoint, overpower her in some way, and murder her as he admits he did.

IOW, I don't see any reason whatsoever to question his murder confession at all, and certainly not based on the fact that the oral sex is all he copped to forcing her to do, at least as far as we've heard so far (as opposed to admitting other types of forcible rape/harm/torture). Totally believe him when he says he killed her. Perhaps further evidence will shed more light on what exactly happened to Whitney in her last hours on this earth. JMO

:tears:

 

[nikb]

LOL, yes, yes I know about those 'modifications'; I did see that, and read the post the guy made about his project.

No, not in that pic. ---> I was referring to the dark spots visible around the perimeter of the gray item in the photo published by KOIN, apparently evenly spaced:

Holes? Grommets? I couldn't find one that looked like that. Thanks.

I can't see exactly what you guys mean about the holes/spots, but IIRC ever since that bunch of semi-recent cases where cars were mysteriously "stuck" with the gas on and it turned out to be floor-mats, the floor-mats have had sort of an anchor. A hole sewn into the floormat, plastic or metal thing in the middle, and plastic (usually) thing that comes in from the floor to twist/ lock it into place. Maybe it happened even longer ago, but the fairly recent stories of people with stuck gas pedals sticks in my mind.

 

[Boodles]

A post up-thread got me to wondering if there was a sexual assault in this case.

IF the perp had murdered and no sexual assault took place (or no claim of sexual assault took place) would the wife be able to divorce, stay in good standing and remarry?

Was any evidence of a sexual assault found by the ME or LE from the search of the SUV, clothing, discarded items, etc?

Not that they have published. That doesn't mean it might not exist. All that was released regarding the autopsy was the cause of death, 4 gunshots.

 

[Xavier]

ICBW, but when I read about the tooth or tooth fragment found on the floorboard (*shudder*), I imagined that to have been a result of Whitney having been shot. IMO that might be more likely than having her tooth knocked out in a fight. IMO, perhaps JH would have had more obvious marks or injuries on him if he'd been in a big physical fight, but that's all mere speculation at this point.

Not sure if there is evidence of a vicious fight/struggle at all; for all we know, she could have been drugged or restrained. Not sure about large clumps of hair. Not sure about the idea of all or a LOT of Whitney's personal articles being strewn along the roadside over a large area along several routes, since we've not had confirmation that I'm aware of, on several of the reported items found. (Some items were found in a dumpster or dumpsters, though.) Not sure about her being shot in the front seat, nor about her being shot because she refused further humiliation or 'sex,' though of course that's just theorizing, NP. Ditto with her having rejected or spurned JH's previous advances/attention, though it is certainly possible. ..

JMO

The Gresham police reports discovered clumps of long hair in the back seat, they also collected many articles, clothing, etc from Whitney's SUV. The police found blood on the front seats and passenger side door area. She was hot in th efron tseat and possibly again th eback seat.
My belief, is Holt's been "rejected" or ignored by the two women closest to women to him...so he took his rage out on Whitney. Just my opinion that's all.

 

[Desdemona]

If you missed it I did too. I've read that he had two guns and LE's seen him getting rid of ammo and at least one of the guns, but I've never been clear on if he took them both that day, or just one, or for that matter maybe there was already one in the car that she kept for protection? (seems unlikely to me given descriptions of her and how young she was, but who knows)

From reading the docs, I was under the impression that Holt purchased and possessed more than one gun. BBM: Didn't LE catch him trying to ditch two guns? ICBW about that.

Up to this point, haven't seen anything at all about Whitney owing a gun though. JMO

 

[nikb]

From reading the docs, I was under the impression that Holt purchased and possessed more than one gun. BBM: Didn't LE catch him trying to ditch two guns? ICBW about that.

Up to this point, haven't seen anything at all about Whitney owing a gun though. JMO

Sorry yes and I do believe it's been reported that Holt had two guns. I'm not sure if he had them both with him that day, or if it's been reported that he did. I haven't seen anything about Whitney owning a gun, I probably should've worded my post better, that was total speculation on how Holt might have used or had two guns even if he didn't officially own them.

 

[Xavier]

The article at this link --

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/loca...arrest-in-Gresham/f5wcBhlf0kG7-NChnzHypA.cspx

-- contains a photo of a cloth with pink/red stains, a Starbucks cup, a large gray roughly square item, and the two FourLoko cans mentioned. The photo does not appear to show broken glass, nor an apron (unless the red-stained cloth is the apron?). The article states that the FourLoko cans were found at Dodge Park by "search crews:"


"Search crews then went to Dodge Park in Clackamas County. There they found a number of items -- such as empty Four Loko cans and a vehicle floor mat -- described as "out of place." "

However, if you click on the photo and read its caption, it states that the items were photographed on Larch Mountain. Which is correct? Dodge Park or Larch Mountain?

Also, FWIW, is the gray square item in the photo an Explorer floor mat? I searched for some images but couldn't find a match to the item in the photo. Maybe someone else will be able to link it up.

The photo:

The caption:

"Investigators are scouring Larch Mountain in connection with the disappearance of Whitney Heichel. Here are some items that were found Thursday morning, described by deputies on the scene as "out of place" for the mountain. Oct. 18, 2012."

"Were found" where, and by whom? Photographed by whom? Did LE photograph these items as part of their investigation, then release the photo to the media? I highly doubt it. Not sure who took the photo; could it have been the reporter, or a news photographer? A local? Surely not one of Whitney's family/friends who participated in the search for her, then released the photo to KOIN? IMO, it would be helpful to the discussion to know where the photo was taken and who took it.

Trying to recall, but don't remember whether some/all of these items were listed in the docs as collected evidence? I could have missed it, though. Were they? Do we know for sure they are connected to Whitney's case?

IMO, there is no way at this point to know who these cans belonged to, who drank the FL and the coffee and when, how many persons consumed them both/all, or over what time period, whether the three beverages were consumed completely, who discarded them and when, or even whether they are related to what happened to poor Whitney.

If they do prove to be connected, perhaps they would be a treasure trove of DNA and fingerprint (and possibly blood) evidence?

:twocents:

On the 4 LOKOS cannonball drinks...Did LE find his prints or DNA saliva?
Was it blood on the shirt? The large reddish stain is on the left side of the shirt, so the makes sense since she's in the passenger seat...

 

[SuziQ]

Did I miss something? I thought there were charges of sexual assault this week. Wasn't that in the probable cause statement?

 

[Quester]

The stain on the white cloth in the photo looks like a Kool-Aid colored substance.
Is Four Lokos a similar pink Kool-Aid color?

 

[Boodles]

The article at this link --

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/loca...arrest-in-Gresham/f5wcBhlf0kG7-NChnzHypA.cspx

-- contains a photo of a cloth with pink/red stains, a Starbucks cup, a large gray roughly square item, and the two FourLoko cans mentioned. The photo does not appear to show broken glass, nor an apron (unless the red-stained cloth is the apron?). The article states that the FourLoko cans were found at Dodge Park by "search crews:"


"Search crews then went to Dodge Park in Clackamas County. There they found a number of items -- such as empty Four Loko cans and a vehicle floor mat -- described as "out of place." "

However, if you click on the photo and read its caption, it states that the items were photographed on Larch Mountain. Which is correct? Dodge Park or Larch Mountain?

Also, FWIW, is the gray square item in the photo an Explorer floor mat? I searched for some images but couldn't find a match to the item in the photo. Maybe someone else will be able to link it up.

The photo:

The caption:

"Investigators are scouring Larch Mountain in connection with the disappearance of Whitney Heichel. Here are some items that were found Thursday morning, described by deputies on the scene as "out of place" for the mountain. Oct. 18, 2012."

"Were found" where, and by whom? Photographed by whom? Did LE photograph these items as part of their investigation, then release the photo to the media? I highly doubt it. Not sure who took the photo; could it have been the reporter, or a news photographer? A local? Surely not one of Whitney's family/friends who participated in the search for her, then released the photo to KOIN? IMO, it would be helpful to the discussion to know where the photo was taken and who took it.

Trying to recall, but don't remember whether some/all of these items were listed in the docs as collected evidence? I could have missed it, though. Were they? Do we know for sure they are connected to Whitney's case?

IMO, there is no way at this point to know who these cans belonged to, who drank the FL and the coffee and when, how many persons consumed them both/all, or over what time period, whether the three beverages were consumed completely, who discarded them and when, or even whether they are related to what happened to poor Whitney.

If they do prove to be connected, perhaps they would be a treasure trove of DNA and fingerprint (and possibly blood) evidence?

:twocents:

I can't remember for sure where the Four Lokos and mat were found, although my bet is Dodge Park. The license plate was found at Larch Mountain. Apparently, according to MSM articles, searchers found items of evidence and contacted LE.
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/long_investigation_led_to_trag.html

I sure hope they do DNA testing the FL cans and other items. I wonder how far from the side of the road the mat, cup, etc. were located? If I was trying to hide evidence, I wouldn't leave obvious bloody evidence out in the open in a group of multiple items. I would put them in a random dumpster. At least I think that's what I would do.

 

[Xavier]

God, I watch this video in honor, a tribute to Whitney's life....it's so upsetting and is brought closer because of a family member of ours working for Starbucks corporate and hearing this tragedy through my sister in law..

Enjoy this tribute.....very emotional tribute....

In Memory of Whitney Heichel 10-16-2012 - YouTube