GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[Suzvw]

True, I didn't think about the tinted windows. I can see where the assault in particular could've happened in the back of the SUV behind tinted windows. But when he actually killed her, from what I've read anyway, it sounds like there was a significant amount of blood and - ugh - "other" stuff around the SUV, on the hood, etc., along with the broken window. Wouldn't someone notice that driving by? Maybe it's not a very heavily travelled road, or the speed limit's high enough that you'd drive by it and think "huh that was weird" but not so much that you'd turn around?

Actually it's not that much travelled...except at that time of morning. Like most cities, the suburbs encroach more into the surrounding area. This is a really, heavily wooded, forested area, and small farms and ranches are dotted in those wooded plots. It's a twisty stretch (I use it sometimes when I go into Sandy because it's beautiful)...I believe the speed limit is 35 to 40, but reduces significantly because of curves. My question is this....why, if he killed her there, why didn't he dispose of her body there? There are certainly many places there that he could have done that, unseen. It's certainly not been the first time someone disposed of a body out there. Why did he spend the time and energy to go all the way up to Larch Mountain? Some of you don't know the area...it's quite a drive. Not that close to where he was. And the roads aren't straight. Why did he take her up to Larch Mountain?

 

[peace9274]

If adultery is the only acceptable reason for divorce for JWs, was this all a big disastrous, cowardly ploy to get out of his marriage?

On JH’s tossed cell phone (stolen from CH’s dresser drawer), I wonder if there were intimate photos of WH that JH took while WH was held hostage? And/or old photos of WH from when CH has possession of the phone?

When I did an upgrade to iPhone 4G, my old one (a 3G, which I still have) was no longer usable.
If I give it someone, they would have to put a new SIM card in it and it would be blank until they
put there own info in it.

 

[bellabella]

I don't think anyone has brought up the fact that the Amanda Holt, maiden name "Adams", the confessed murderers wife, was released after felony charges last August.

Link to mugshotshotsworld.com

Compare mugshot these images.

I don't think that mug shot is Amanda Holt's....IMO.

 

[peace9274]

Are you on an Apple device? I couldn't view it via iPad, had to go PC...

Wow- that was I who sent it. It must be an iPad thing. I'm on my iPad right now.
I'll check to see if I get all the pages from the email I sent you with the attachment.

 

[funknut]

I don't think that mug shot is Amanda Holt's....IMO.

What are the odds? Same name, county, and look at the resemblance.

 

[recyclops]

Look at my updated comment above. I have added some other photos for comparison.

eh, bit of a toss up to me. similar but the hair is parted on opposite sides and the eyebrows aren't the same imo

I wonder if there is some way to find out Amanda Holts middle name..if it's Jean or not

 

[Quester]

I don't think that mug shot is Amanda Holt's....IMO.

I agree that it is not AH - noses are completely different.

 

[recyclops]

When I did an upgrade to iPhone 4G, my old one (a 3G, which I still have) was no longer usable.
If I give it someone, they would have to put a new SIM card in it and it would be blank until they
put there own info in it.

my husband, the resident techie, says that its possible the photos were not wiped even if the sim card was changed. It's possible that the original sim card(maybe they changed carriers or whatever so didn't need the sim) was in the phone before JH changed it...so he would of been able to save whatever photos were still in there.

 

[funknut]

eh, bit of a toss up to me. similar but the hair is parted on opposite sides and the eyebrows aren't the same imo

I wonder if there is some way to find out Amanda Holts middle name..if it's Jean or not

Thank you for entertaining the possibility. I am not too sure either, but it at least seemed worth investigating. I don't know what kind of connections we have here, or if someone wants to do a county lookup. That can be rather difficult in Multnomah County.

 

[peace9274]

I can not get all the pages on my iPad.
The pages missing are the ones with blacked out numbers on them.

 

[Boodles]

I agree that it is not AH - noses are completely different.

The photos are not the same people. The nose is not the same, nor is the facial shape. (Nor would her name be Adams in a 2012 mugshot).

 

[recyclops]

The photos are not the same people. The nose is not the same, nor is the facial shape. (Nor would her name be Adams in a 2012 mugshot).

i have to agree, don't think it's her.
However I'm married and people know me by my husbands last name. But on paper I still legally go by my maiden name since I never changed it. So not totally outside the realm of possiblity. But as I said I don't think it's her.

 

[pugglesworth]

Yeah the facial structure, especially nose, is completely different. Plus AH was married in 2010 or 11, right? So her name would have been changed by this past August, certainly.

When we upgraded to the iPhone 4 this year, we kept the old 3Gs for photos, music, and apps for the kids to use. They can't make phone calls or texts, but it basically functions like an ipod.

 

[msthinksalot]

Sorry, just caught up after being away all day... it was awesome to get away from the horror a bit!

I think the call might have been made by Whitney to Starbucks...a call for help. (Yes, that early.) I also believe that could have prompted the angry tossing of the phone into the lake.

With all due respect, I think you are clutching at straws. For whatever reason, you seem to be equating Clint with a Scott Peterson sort of character. The funny thing is, Clint wasn't doing anything suspicious. Not a single thing out of the ordinary. Holt was. I simply do not understand if you are doing this to be provocative or what? Unlike all the hinky stuff pulled by Scott Peterson and others, there simply isn't any of that here. It is starting to feel really frustrating to read these baseless accusations. If there's evidence there, I mean, bona fide evidence, then by all means, share ... or better yet, contact Gresham PD!

I so hope not, of course! I keep worrying there were/are others but then I also keep thinking he was so apparently careless or stupid in terms of leaving evidence all over the place, it seems like he'd have been caught before now.
Maybe he's assaulted before but this assault got "out of hand" and it's the first time he went so far as killing someone?

I'm thinking, if it turns out that something bad did occur last August, that it was rape or attempted rape/attempted kidnapping. It may have happened in Washington, or it may have been a woman who was quite marginalized... maybe he abused or raped a prostitute.

It would have had her fingerprints on it.

Nothing in that report states that her fingerprints weren't on it... only that his were. Like other people stated, a lot of people carry bottles of Febreeze or like products in their car to freshen them up... especially now in the icky, damp, musty rainy season.

He could have grabbed it to clean something up because it was the only liquid he had. He could also have grabbed it to spray it in the air because blood smells awful... have you ever had the misfortune of visiting a butcher shop or a slaughterhouse? Or even had a relative dress a deer? It smells horrid, and he was stuck driving around in that car for at least a couple of hours with blood everywhere. Blech. It actually makes me nauseated just thinking about it.

If he dumped the gun in the bushes it wasn't because he was inherently stupid. He graduated with a 3.35 gpa, and that was even higher in junior high--over 3.6 if I recall correctly. People can make unwise choices in life, but the fact is...your intelligence remains fairly stable. One might lose reason due to extreme mental illness (psychosis) and behave irrationally, but basic IQ remains the same. It remains the same even if one is emotionally distressed or depressed. (In fact, depression is statistically more common in highly intelligent people; they have more conflict because they take in more, weigh more, but that's another topic...)


Re the license: If the removal of the license plate was for the purpose of delaying ID of the car, then why did he remove the front one?

<snipped by me>

One nation, under God, with liberty and JUSTICE for all. Did you know that a person can't be convicted on their confession alone? The evidence still has to support their confession. And now that JH (finally) has a lawyer, it sounds like maybe the lawyer isn't so convinced either. Last I read, the plea was 'not guilty.' (Any corrections on that out there?)

BBM and snipped by me.

First, there's a huge problem in Oregon with grade inflation. It is not a difficult thing to graduate with a 3.35 GPA; that's a B-average. Heck, even state colleges and universities are infamous for inflated grades.

Second, there is no way at all that J.H. is psychotic. Absolutely not. Have you ever been around someone in the midst of a psychotic episode? It looks nothing like his behavior thus far. I know that we had this discussion earlier, when I stated that schizophrenics and people suffering from psychotic illness typically aren't violent towards others. We both agreed that yes, sometimes people who are psychotic can commit violence. Of course they can, and they do. Nevertheless, I beg you to learn a bit more about what happens during a psychotic episode. His attempts to cover his crime were disorganized and, arguably, stupid. But don't mistake his disorganization for psychotic disorganization... trust me in that psychosis looks very different.

I think it is more apt that his disorganization is simply a reflection of him being angry at himself. Look at his statements to police... he repeated so many times that his marriage was a mess and he was worried about losing his wife and his job. I think he had been struggling for a long time about his many issues and the way those contradicted the way he was trying to live his life. He repeatedly stated how he kept screwing up at work and his wife felt like he had "abandoned" her. I imagine that their sex life was a mess... if they had one at all, due to his *advertiser censored* addiction. I also say this from experience, though, thank God, the person I was with was not into kiddie *advertiser censored*. Rather, he was into "pee" *advertiser censored*. I didn't know it for a long time and had the misfortune of opening his computer one day to use his CD-ROM drive because mine had broken. When Windows Media Player opened, it started playing a pornographic movie... so then of course I went snooping. I found that this guy had been literally watching *advertiser censored* from the instant I left the house in the morning until late afternoon... quitting just in time for me to come home. Then he would do it again at night... there were a few times I fell asleep while we were watching a movie and I would wake up and catch him masturbating... with his laptop open. Our sex life was virtually nonexistent, and when he decided he felt like he wanted to be intimate, he always made bizarre requests of me... one time even asking me to pretend I was a prostitute and he wanted to pick me up on the corner of our street.

I really feel like that experience, and the way my guy acted, the way he would shove me away a good 75% of the time and then be clingy, jealous and possessive the rest of the time, knowing that he watched *advertiser censored* all day while I was at work and even when he was supposed to be working, etc. etc., I feel like JH is/was the same sort of guy. The fellow that was in my life walked around with a great deal of guilt. He felt like he was a freak, and I believe, he truly felt badly when he would say and do things that made me feel awful... but his fleeting moments of empathy couldn't fix the pathology that was in his mind.

Finally, regarding the license plate: it is not illegal to have only one license plate on your car in Oregon. The catch is, you had to have been issued only one. I often see cars driving around with only one license plate, particularly BMWs, Mercedes-Benz and Audis. Sometimes, in fact, people have a European license plate placed OVER their front Oregon plate... dunno why, but I've seen it a lot.

So simply not having a front license plate would not alert an officer to pull someone over as long as that person were driving appropriately and not breaking any traffic rules. Here is what the law states (BBM):

If only one license plate is issued, it must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. If two plates are issued, one must be displayed on the front of the vehicle and the other on the rear of the vehicle. Plates must be in plain view so as to be easily read by the public and law enforcement (See ORS 803.540).

ETA: one more thing re: pleading guilty. As a former paralegal, I can assure you that not a single defense attorney out there will let a felony case plea "guilty"... NEVER. EVEN IF THEY ARE INTENDING TO WORK OUT A PLEA DEAL. They always plea not guilty as a matter of procedure, and the deal-making goes on behind the scenes. If/when they work a deal, the plea is changed to "guilty" at the time the plea deal is presented to the court and accepted by the judge.

 

[ByTheSea]

That's not her at all. Facial structure, especially the nose, is different. Nevermind that she clearly doesn't go by her maiden name anymore (even her former Facebook page was in her married name). She was married in 2010.

 

[funknut]

That's not her at all. Facial structure, especially the nose, is different. Nevermind that she clearly doesn't go by her maiden name anymore (even her former Facebook page was in her married name). She was married in 2010.

You had better believe I don't use my real name on Facebook. The court uses whatever your legal name is, and it is very possible that she has not changed it officially with the bureau of records. I think the face looks a lot like her, and the nose looks stretched because she is smiling in one photo, and frowning in the other. I am not convinced either, but I'm glad people are considering the possibility.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Of course diagnosis is impossible by a layperson much less online. My post was in reference to a post I found online where someone claiming to know JH stated it was common knowledge that he had FAS and was known to be "slow". Also if you read the info found at the link it states that it is a "spectrum syndrome" and is often called an "invisible handicap" (high functioning sufferers would not have the physical characteristics of the more severe) I also worked in special education and also worked with with folks with severe FAS. I just found it an interesting side point when I saw the post. I personally was unaware of it being a "spectrum" disorder like autism. And people that suffer high functioning FAS(actually called FASD Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder) can have IQ's up to 140. And many are in jail due to their behavioral problems. My only point in bringing it up is trying to search for why JH would be so violent, so out of the blue. And be so stupid in how he behaved after the crime. It's one of the most disorganized and messy crimes I've seen in a while. Just a search for answers...isn't that why we're all here? Just food for thought, speculating and theorizing...

I think I understand what you might be trying to say, but 'high-functioning' doesn't even make sense if he doesn't have the diagnosis in the first place. While it has degrees of range of severity (like other disorders such as autism), you have to have the diagnosis before determining the degree of function. So, if he doesn't have all 3 of the 3 characteristics that ALL these kids must have, then he's not on the chart in the first place. And the one mandatory characteristic I can at least notice right off the bat from the wedding pictures (though I'm not a specialist in this) is the lack of a smooth philtrum. His looks normal--probably a "2" if you look on the charts. He also seems not to have the webbed eyelids, the 'railroad track' ears, etc. I wouldn't diagnose someone online, especially by what they don't have in this disorder, but I would be loathe to speculate about this diagnosis for any individual. It's outside our parameters.

 

[Suzvw]

In the state of Oregon we have to have both a front and rear plate on our cars. You will get pulled over if not. I did and I had to show the officer i had one (was in the back seat) but the frame had cracked and it was hanging by a thread. I batted my eyelashes and he just pointed his finger at me and let me go

 

[Xavier]

My younger brother's been schiz-affective for about 30 years, onset began around 19 years old, the experts told us it usually hits young men in their early 20's. We've had it easy and extremely hard as a family watching over our brother....Our brother would leave his group home for days, then return "out of wack" from missing his med treatments...He would tell us he's "clearing his head"...He would also have periods of introversion, not speaking, distant, then return to the world with hightened sensitivity, exuberance, and many times with anger, argumentative and occasionally physical attacks when confronted...We've called 911 and needed police intervention about 40 times in 30 years, he accosted, ripped the shirt off a Kroger's store manager because our brother was just angry at something unrelated to the store manager....he also had obssesive behaviors with women, calling people in the wee hours of the night....and he self-medicates by constantly smoking......

That being said, I see alot of similarities in our brother and Holt's behavior. Sadly, Holt didnt get the support, since his family seems disconnected and his wife, friends were probably kept distant from any wierd, erratic behavior schizo sufferes have. It's VITAL for schizo sufferers to have a SUPPORT SYSTEM to survive. Our family has had the patience of Job to deal with this...Holt's biggest failure was his own ignorance of his problems and not "manning up" to come out for help..

From the LE reports, God this young woman must have been terrified beyond my comprehension when he pointed and started firing the gun at her in the passenger seat at the Lake.

Our sister in law is a marketing director for Starbucks in Seattle,WA and Whitney's store is one on her list for store visits. Starbucks is really stunned about Whitney's murder, since there have been several Starbucks female employees killed over the past few years. Strange coincidence I guess, not trying to read into this more than necessary....

This is my first time on this site and I'm so saddened for the familiy's involved...Just Unspeakable pain and grief ....Holt sounds like a guy without a lot of people skills, relationship maturity, plus wild addictions like peeping, child *advertiser censored*, sodomy fantasies, a very dark depressed, repressed guy....It's so sad, sad beyond my abilities to understand, all of these young women, girls, being abducted, murdered, dismembered, body parts collected, etc, that have been on the news lately...

 

[Melancholy]

IIRC early on there was some mention that when her manager first talked to CH he/she(not sure which?) asked if WH had "decided to be sick" or something similar. It's a stretch IMO but maybe she called to see if they had enough staffing that she didn't need to come in if she was feeling a bit iffy/under the weather?

IMO I really don't think she talked to the manager that day, but it could explain the somewhat strange comment about her "deciding" to be sick.

The 6:00am call was from JH's phone...the one he had in his possession and stole from CH's drawer.