Oscar Pistorius Defense

[jay-jay]

Will OP's reenactment video just zip right through all that feeling around in the dark bedroom for Reeva on his stumps, running back to bathroom still holding cocked gun and shoulder butting the WC door, running back to bedroom and unlocking/opening balcony doors still holding cocked gun and going out onto the balcony and yelling "Help!" 3x, putting cocked gun on bed while donning his legs, returning to bathroom and only then turning on the light? And will the video show him finding Reeva slumped on the floor, not the magazine rack, as he claimed under oath?

Also, when they make the film, which version are they going to use .. OP's version or the real one, or will they do a kind of 'Sliding Doors' type thing with it and incorporate both versions somehow? :scared:

 

[lithgow1]

I was just wondering how much OP's failure to determine exactly who was in the cubicle, or even try to do so, will be a factor in the final deliberations. IIRC Pistorius had no answers to Nel's questions regarding this. You'd think that when the judge and assessors are looking at the questions regarding reasonable behaviour, OP's failure to not ask (or scream) 'Who is in there?', especially as a gun-owner with a weapon and seemingly the upper hand, will be another black mark against him. Any thoughts?

 

[Murphys_Law]

Thanks, Murphys_Law. I hadn't seen that bedroom light pic. OP via his NPD seems to view Dr. Stipp as a mortal enemy who must be destroyed. He said Dr. Stipp was wrong about the bathroom light being ON moments after the first bangs drew his attention to OP's house. Dr. Stipp, on his balcony observing the goings-on, also heard OP's cries for help after the last bangs, but he didn't testify to seeing OP "opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help".

Right on!
Tho interestingly, Dr. Stipp did say the "Help Help Help" seemed to come from "much more to the left" in his affidavit, "slightly more to the left" in oral testimony, thus it is likely that OP did wander out toward the balcony immediately after the last shots but before he (according to OP) had broken down the toilette door. This must have been the trip where the obviously already bloodied OP deposits a drip trail (his own blood, Reeva's or both) on the carpet and duvet. 'Splain that OP!

 

[DebinGA]

Also, when they make the film, which version are they going to use .. OP's version or the real one, or will they do a kind of 'Sliding Doors' type thing with it and incorporate both versions somehow? :scared:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-5-key-3477190

Pic 3, an enlarged view of the balcony side of OP's bed, that he supposedly walked along on his stumps and felt along with his hands in the pitch black looking for Reeva, by itself proves OP is a lying liar who lies.

 

[jay-jay]

ITA! And when I said he was crafty I wasn't implying I believed he was a criminal mastermind. Obviously he's not. But he is bright enough to come up with the intruder story immediately after the murder, to provide an alternative scenario to what the witnesses heard - like why he was yelling for help, to run a not so subtle PR campaign alongside his trial, and to attempt to use his disability to mitigate culpability after spending his entire life boldly defying it. Some seem determined to paint him as somehow having diminished capacity - not too bright, ignorant, immature, vulnerable, etc. I think he's far more capable than some presume - intellectually and physically.

I think Oscar's ego trumps all though. Even his attorney's advice.

.. absolutely, and I watched this Larry King interview yesterday in which OP was keen to stress he wasn't at all disabled or disadvantaged by not having any lower legs Oscar Pistorius interview with Larry King - YouTube .. how strange that he has changed his tune all of a sudden :whistle:

 

[Karmady]

Don't forget the fact that Oscar just heard a noise. He never saw an attacker. So this case is the first of its kind in South Africa.

In all previous putative private defense cases the shooter saw a person or persons and then mistakenly thought they were being attacked by this person.

Oscar just heard a noise and then mistakenly thought he was being attacked by the person making the noise.

Right. Again, I wasn't saying how the law will be applied in this case. I was just quoting the correct law since there has been continuing confusion about it in terms of which private defense is at issue and regarding the subjective component of the standard that applies.

jmo

 

[sleuth-d-]

Agreed! And let us not forget that there is photo evidence (attached) of at least one bedroom light being on and yet he does not mention it in his affidavit nor his oral testimony.

from the bail hearing affidavit ....
I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.

that is a good point. although switching on the lights is vague enough to include bedroom lights too i guess. i am finding it is a constantly difficult leap, to try to refer back to the darkness; or amount of light; or lack of light when going through all of these actions. especially as all the police reference photos are taken in daylight.

is op really saying he picked up the body in a lighted bathroom, and then carried rs through a virtually pitch black bedroom to the stairs?

 

[Murphys_Law]

that is a good point. although switching on the lights is vague enough to include bedroom lights too i guess. i am finding it is a constantly difficult leap, to try to refer back to the darkness; or amount of light; or lack of light when going through all of these actions. especially as all the police reference photos are taken in daylight.

is op really saying he picked up the body in a lighted bathroom, and then carried rs through a virtually pitch black bedroom to the stairs?

Since he had already made 2 practice runs into the pitch dark bedroom and bathroom on his stumps, one of those moving backwards no less, the other climbing over the bed, traversing over a heap of wire while searching behind the curtains and then opening the double doors onto the balcony --all with a cocked gun in hand, its hard to imagine him having any difficulties carrying Reeva and moving forward on his prosthetics in the semi-dark bedroom (because now, at a minimum he has turned on the bathroom light), unless he was in high heels, of course.:floorlaugh:

That aside I think he dragged her out, probably on a plastic garbage bag to the bedroom door -- hence the blood splatter low on the tiles in the right hand side of the passage way

from the bail hearing affidavit ....
I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.

 

[Cherwell]

Thanks, Murphys_Law. I hadn't seen that bedroom light pic. OP via his NPD seems to view Dr. Stipp as a mortal enemy who must be destroyed. He said Dr. Stipp was wrong about the bathroom light being ON moments after the first bangs drew his attention to OP's house. Dr. Stipp, on his balcony observing the goings-on, also heard OP's cries for help after the last bangs, but he didn't testify to seeing OP "opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help".

The balcony wouldn't be visible from the Stipp house.

 

[Emz73]

That case is very different. The person that was killed verbally attacked the shooter, telling him that he wanted to kill him. He also reached in to his pocket for, what the victim thought, was a weapon.

The gun that the victim used was very different from OPs, in that it was manufactured to fire more than one bullet with a single pull of the trigger. OP intended to fire all four of the bullets that he fired at Reeva, with all four of his four pulls on the trigger of his gun that night.

And what's interesting is he used putative private defense. A perfect example of this defense. So we have Oscars "wood" noise behind a closed door vs a man saying let's kill him and reaching into his pocket.

 

[Carmelita]

Don't forget the fact that Oscar just heard a noise. He never saw an attacker. So this case is the first of its kind in South Africa.

In all previous putative private defense cases the shooter saw a person or persons and then mistakenly thought they were being attacked by this person.

Oscar just heard a noise and then mistakenly thought he was being attacked by the person making the noise.

and he didn't say he heard the noise of someone cocking a gun or people whispering to each other behind the door...nothing that was threatening...

Oscar claims that he interpreted the noise he heard as the door of the toilet opening which meant the intruder was moving further into his home in what could only reasonably be interpreted as a move of aggression, it would not be unreasonable to think that the intruder is of ill will at this point.

 

[DebinGA]

The balcony wouldn't be visible from the Stipp house.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[Cherwell]

Oscar claims that he interpreted the noise he heard as the door of the toilet opening which meant the intruder was moving further into his home in what could only reasonably be interpreted as a move of aggression, it would not be unreasonable to think that the intruder is of ill will at this point.

Equally it could be interpreted as the first step in obeying the instructions to leave the house.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Also, when they make the film, which version are they going to use .. OP's version or the real one, or will they do a kind of 'Sliding Doors' type thing with it and incorporate both versions somehow? :scared:

The danger with the defence showing an animated video supporting OP's latest testimony will be that Nel will simply ask if any other version was made, when and why, and ask to see it. If it supports OP's earlier testimony (e.g. one fan, on balcony, no blue LED being covered by jeans, double tap etc.) it will undermine his credibility further still as it will reinforce the fact that he's been adapting his story to fit. I'm sure OP would simply say that he had nothing to do with the video and he doesn't know why his defence made the earlier version(s) the way they were made! But he doesn't get a chance to say anything further unless Roux recalls him to that stand which I think unlikely.

 

[DebinGA]

Since he had already made 2 practice runs into the pitch dark bedroom and bathroom on his stumps, one of those moving backwards no less, the other climbing over the bed, traversing over a heap of wire while searching behind the curtains and then opening the double doors onto the balcony --all with a cocked gun in hand, its hard to imagine him having any difficulties carrying Reeva and moving forward on his prosthetics in the semi-dark bedroom (because now, at a minimum he has turned on the bathroom light), unless he was in high heels, of course.:floorlaugh:
.................................................................................................................................................................
And also having to unlock the balcony doors before he opened them, using the hand that wasn't holding his cocked gun. RB&SBM

 

[Carmelita]

Equally it could be interpreted as the first step in obeying the instructions to leave the house.

One could reasonably expect that if it was the first step in obeying the instructions that an intruder would announce their intentions and ask if they could come out. If I'm on the inside of a door and someone is hysterically screaming me for me to get the F* out of their house that last thing I am going to do is silently open the door and move towards that screaming person.

I'll say this if I knew an intruder was in my home and I was all that stood between them and my loved one and they decided to open a door that stood between us it would not end well for them.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Thanks, Murphys_Law. I hadn't seen that bedroom light pic. OP via his NPD seems to view Dr. Stipp as a mortal enemy who must be destroyed. He said Dr. Stipp was wrong about the bathroom light being ON moments after the first bangs drew his attention to OP's house. Dr. Stipp, on his balcony observing the goings-on, also heard OP's cries for help after the last bangs, but he didn't testify to seeing OP "opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help".

1
imo you are right, dr stipp is seen as a nemesis by op.
dr stipp > ear and eye witness > saw the bathroom light on > alerted security > takes responsibility, brave, came to the scene himself > pronounced rs dead > does the right thing, credible on the stand > a doctor. highly qualified professional, relevant experience, people look up to him. people believe him.

op could be thinking, without dr stipp... no baba... no police... no court case... no nel.

2
re: your npd comment, and further to 'narcissistic supply' below is a good fit for the op/rs relationship, 'not so?':

Narcissistic abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adult relationships[edit]
Narcissistic abuse may also occur in adult-to-adult relationships, where the narcissistic person tends to seek out a successful (independent, educated, and attractive) yet co-dependent (empathic, excessively compliant, and forgiving) partner in order to "mirror" the behavior the narcissistic person lacks (e.g., empathy). In this way a dynamic of abuser and victim is created.[24]
Their relationships are characterized by a period of intense involvement and idealization of their partner, followed by devaluation, and a rapid discarding of the partner.[25] At the beginning of a relationship with a narcissist, the partner is only shown the ideal self of the narcissist, which includes pseudo empathy, kindness, and charm. Once the partner has committed to the relationship (e.g., through marriage or a business partnership), the true self of the narcissist will begin to emerge. The initial narcissistic abuse begins with belittling comments and grows to contempt, ignoring behavior, adultery, sabotage, and, at times, physical abuse.[26] At the core of a narcissist is a combination of entitlement and low self-esteem. These feelings of inadequacy are projected onto the victim. If the narcissistic person is feeling unattractive they will belittle their romantic partner's appearance. If the narcissist makes an error, this error becomes the their partner's fault.[27] Narcissists also engage in insidious, manipulative abuse by giving subtle hints and comments that result in the victim questioning their own behavior and thoughts. This is termed gaslighting.[28] Any slight criticism of the narcissistic, whether actual or perceived, often triggers narcissistic rage and full blown annihilation from the narcissistic person. This can take the form of screaming tirades or quiet sabotage (setting traps, hiding belongings, spreading rumors, etc). The discard phase can be swift and occurs once the narcissistic supply is obtained elsewhere. In romantic relationships, the narcissistic supply can be acquired by having affairs. The new partner is in the idealization phase and only witnesses the ideal self; thus once again the cycle of narcissistic abuse begins. Narcissists do not take responsibility for relationship difficulties and exhibit no feeling of remorse. Instead they believe themselves to be the victim in the relationship.[citation needed]

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't think RS got to see much of the charming Oscar considering the total length of their dating before he murdered her was all of 3 months and their pattern of miscommunication and his tantrums seemed to happen rather frequently.

But none of his behaviors are a defense and so whatever personality deficits he has will certainly not help him in his defense. ("M'lady, I'm a jerk and scoundrel and I do jerky things cause that's how I roll. So how bout it, M'lady? One free pass & I promise never to do this again?")

 

[TorisMom003]

Video: Most Dramatic Moments of the Trial So Far

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-most-3474293

... maybe if OP picked the clips; otherwise, no.

From that link:

"More than a year after he shot dead girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in the early hours of Valentine's Day - he finally had the chance to tell his side of the story."

BBM

OP had plenty of chances to tell his side of the story before the trial, he just chose not to. If this had truly been an accident, he would have spoken to police and given them his statement immediately. Instead he decided to wait until he could have a look at the evidence the State had and then tailor his versions to "fit" the evidence.

That article, especially the video, seems to be in support of OP. To bad there isn't an unbiased reporter doing the article instead.

MOO

 

[DebinGA]

:

Narcissistic abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Adult relationships[edit]
Narcissistic abuse may also occur in adult-to-adult relationships, where the narcissistic person tends to seek out a successful (independent, educated, and attractive) yet co-dependent (empathic, excessively compliant, and forgiving) partner in order to "mirror" the behavior the narcissistic person lacks (e.g., empathy).

RSBM - Sounds like that was written with OP and Reeva in mind.