Oscar Pistorius Defense

[BritsKate]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/woman-intervenes-in-oscar-ruling-1.1652405#.U2NSK-hX-uY


Pretoria - A woman, only known as Annamarie, addressed the High Court in Pretoria on Tuesday, opposing an application for the murder trial of paralympian Oscar Pistorius to be broadcast.

In February last year, the same woman requested to address the Pretoria Magistrate's Court on his “mental state” during the sports star's bail hearing.

She asked the court to put Pistorius under independent psychiatric observation for 60 days.

She also wanted Pretoria chief Magistrate Desmond Nair removed from Pistorius's bail bid.

Annamarie claims to be the ex-wife of Dr Gerald Versfeld who amputated Pistorius's legs when he was a child. She believed Pistorius had a mental breakdown.

On Tuesday, Judge Dunstan Mlambo told the woman to sit down, saying she was wasting the court's time.


Uh oh.


http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-dead-mom-asked-me-to-help-him-1.1475017#.U2NVG-hX-uY


Pretoria - Oscar Pistorius’s dead biological mother came to her in a dream and asked her to help her son.

This is what a woman who claims to have known Pistorius since he was a toddler is saying.

She said her last name was uncertain as she was previously Riethmiller and also previously Versfeld – “ex-wife of Oscar’s orthopaedic surgeon, Dr Gerald Versfeld.

Annamarie explained to the judge that she felt Pistorius snapped the night he shot Steenkamp as this was not the “Oscar I knew as a little boy”.

I really think this woman has been seen as a crackpot for want of a better term.

Conveniently, this delay ran concurrently with the arrival of "Anna Marie", this time wearing a lawyer’s gown, an eccentric lady who claims her surname has been "stolen", and who also made an appearance at the bail hearing last year, and the hearing over the application to televise the trial. She has previously insisted Oscar Pistorius’s brain be examined, that she is the sister of the surgeon who amputated his legs as a baby, and that she is a friend of his now deceased mother. She was led away, demanding to see the judge.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...l-in-south-african-legal-history-9166574.html

 

[Giles]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-65-year-old-killer-set-trap-basement.html

I am not putting OP in the same camp as this guy, but the scenario where your victim doesn't make a sound when you shoot her 3 times before the fatal shot so you at least know it's a woman doesn't exist for me (or is highly improbable).

Thanks for the link. It's really chilling listening to that.

 

[Viper]

If we are looking at the same location, it certainly look likes a cartridge/casing plus a fragment to me!

Could this be the 5th cartridge that Nel spoke or mis-spoke about?

I have attached a composite set of photos of the found cartridges A1 to A4, the bullet in the chamber, and your photo with a specific area circled. Are we all referencing the same object in the toilette bowl?

On a side topic, I am almost certain that he used two different types of ammunition that night -- the Black Talon with its notable black head and silver coloured casing, and the Ranger SXT series, which have a black head and brass/copper coloured casing. It is evident from the different coloured casings that more than one type was in use. That said, it may not be a significant finding - his magazine may have simply been loaded with 2 different types of ammo for no sinister reason.

I personally cannot see the two colors of the spent casings because my mobile screen is too small for that much detail. But I trust in your eyes, and thank you for pointing that out to us all! Great find!

Those 20 year old Black Talons are so strange to me. Hard to come by, so if he only had a couple and he had the belief that they were somehow the best Zombie Killers, I can see why he would put them in the top of his magazine so that they were the bullets that were fired out of the gun first. But 20 year old ammo is not something I would bet my life on. Weird, IMO.

In regards to the fifth bullet, I know Nel misspoke because there is no fifth spent casing that I am aware of. It has been noted by some that the forensic officer who rendered Pistorius' gun safe had to eject the one bullet cartridge that was in the chamber to make the gun safe, so that one ejected unused (not fired) bullet cartridge could be referred to as a fifth bullet, even though it had nothing to do with the murder.

 

[G.bng]

Strange. I thought I recalled him denyng that was him.
You wouldn't have a quick link, T?

IIRC OP agreed it was him shooting and his voice in the words referring to the zombie stopper but denied that it was him doing the loud laughing you can also hear in the background.

 

[jay-jay]

How lucky was that boy. Consider the similarities.

He was staying the night.
A fan was involved.
OP heard a noise (probably the fan).
He was going to the toilet.

It makes me shudder.

.. that's one of the things that makes me doubt the story even more ..

 

[JudgeJudi]

That article reads like a pre-trial Team Oscar effort to evoke sympathy before the ballistics expert and the ear witnesses were heard from. He's a "broken man" and is having to sell stuff to fund his defense? Whoop dee doo. And Dexter claiming Oscar is always asking him to pray for Reeva? Little late for that.

I couldn't agree with you more. Have you ever heard anyone say "I'm a broken man". Those are words that would be spoken by others. In fact I've read them more than once. I think his horse trainer said it. And asking the friend to pray for Reeva?

"As for all those tears and ramblings from Pistorius about his God of refuge, who helped him win, and get through the last year, Johannesburg forensic psychologist Leonard Carr pointed out in a Jacaranda FM interview this week, it was all about what God can do for Pistorius, not any sense of apology or responsibility towards God."

http://www.biznews.com/health-bizne...pistorius-performance-may-prove-mental-state/

Please pass me a green bucket.

 

[jay-jay]

This was in the Mirror last year and quotes Dexter Azzie directly:


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

I guess you mean that the Azzies might have made it up to support OP? In my mind it works against him though. There is nothing wrong per se with going armed to investigate a noise. This shows that in the past he has done so responsibly, so why would he behave differently this time?

Yes, but it sounds to me as if they are trying to bolster up OP's paranoidness (if there is such a word .. and if there isn't, there should be! ) and the more stories that are added about various events where OP claims he was being 'got at' in his own mind, the better he thinks it will be because he can then say that so many people were out to get him it was only reasonable to think that he might, at some point (i.e. the night he shot Reeva), attack back. Only problem is that he cannot verify any of these stories .. he can't verify his previous alleged burglary (because he didn't report it), he can't verify his alledged being shot at from passing car because he didn't report that either and he can't remember which friend it was who assisted him afterwards so there is no witness to that. He has been including all of these stories (invented, imo and in many other people's opinion too) in order to show that he had a reason to be fearful of an intruder that night .. and I believe that that story from Azzie is just another one of those. I don't know that for sure, of course, but I don't trust anything that comes from the OP camp.

also, see Deb's post ..

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Oscar Pistorius Defense

That article reads like a pre-trial Team Oscar effort to evoke sympathy before the ballistics expert and the ear witnesses were heard from. He's a "broken man" and is having to sell stuff to fund his defense? Whoop dee doo. And Dexter claiming Oscar is always asking him to pray for Reeva? Little late for that.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Goodnight all. Three sleeps to go.
fftobed:

 

[BritsKate]

The only reason for Oscar Pistorius himself or his family and friends to be releasing anything to the media is as part of a public relations campaign. The judge and assessors will not be moved by, or possibly even aware of, released information. I totally get wanting to protect someone you love from negativity - I just believe they should probably allow the justice system to run its course and go from there. He's the defendant, not the victim, and any illusion roles are somehow misplaced could incur far more public wrath than actually help restore his image.

Further, I predict if Mike Azzie testifies, we'll see the shortest cross in history!
Nel: Mr. Azzie, did Mr. Pistorius ask if your son was okay? Did he verify the location of your son? At any point, without getting a verbal or visual assessment of your son, did Mr. Pistorius blindly and without aiming fire four bullets towards the sound your son made knocking over the fan?

 

[turaj]

can someone familiar with south african law please clarify something for me...there is the judge and 2 advisors. If one or two of the advisors disagree with the judge's decision what happens. Is the judge the final say or is it majority. I thought it was all with the judge but she would take input from the advisors...if it is a majority then it is more like a juror trial. Please help me get this straight. Thanks.

 

[soozieqtips]

can someone familiar with south african law please clarify something for me...there is the judge and 2 advisors. If one or two of the advisors disagree with the judge's decision what happens. Is the judge the final say or is it majority. I thought it was all with the judge but she would take input from the advisors...if it is a majority then it is more like a juror trial. Please help me get this straight. Thanks.

The 2 assessors can overrule the judge.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-trial-judge-appoints-assessors-1.1646332

A criminal procedure law expert at the University of Pretoria, Professor Annette van der Merwe, explained that in terms of South African law, the two assessors could “overrule” the judge when it comes to a verdict on the facts, based on the majority doctrine.

This means that if the two assessors, for example, rule in favour of murder, or the judge and one assessor rule as such, that verdict will be the accepted one. The same applies for when two of them rule in favour of an acquittal.

 

[Cherwell]

The only reason for Oscar Pistorius himself or his family and friends to be releasing anything to the media is as part of a public relations campaign. The judge and assessors will not be moved by, or possibly even aware of, released information. I totally get wanting to protect someone you love from negativity - I just believe they should probably allow the justice system to run its course and go from there. He's the defendant, not the victim, and any illusion roles are somehow misplaced could incur far more public wrath than actually help restore his image.

Further, I predict if Mike Azzie testifies, we'll see the shortest cross in history!
Nel: Mr. Azzie, did Mr. Pistorius ask if your son was okay? Did he verify the location of your son? At any point, without getting a verbal or visual assessment of your son, did Mr. Pistorius blindly and without aiming fire four bullets towards the sound your son made knocking over the fan?

Well, exactly! The story would be gold dust for the prosecution.

 

[shane13]

Thanks for that. I'll say at the outset I know absolutely nothing about ammo. I found this video which gives a demo between the old Black Talons and the latest Ranger T-series which are said to be far superior. To me it looked like the Ranger T's were more deadly in that they expand much more, but on the other hand they don't penetrate as much. From what was said this was supposed to be a good thing but I don't understand why and neither do I need to know. No doubt gun enthusiasts would like to see this demonstration.

http://www.guns.com/2013/03/22/winchester-black-talon-versus-winchester-ranger-t-then-v-now-video/

Fortunately we don't have a gun culture in Oz and I hope it stays that way forever.

Bottom line here I think is the following.

If successors to the black talon line of bullets were better or such, why did (or are) gun enthusiasts paying more to get BTs which the manufacturer stopped making 20 years ago?

Remember Oscar was about to become a certified gun collector.
He is quite knowledable about guns and bullets and what each does.
So are others who pay more for these "obsolete" bullets.

Clearly they know... JMO

 

[turaj]

The 2 assessors can overrule the judge.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-trial-judge-appoints-assessors-1.1646332

A criminal procedure law expert at the University of Pretoria, Professor Annette van der Merwe, explained that in terms of South African law, the two assessors could “overrule” the judge when it comes to a verdict on the facts, based on the majority doctrine.

This means that if the two assessors, for example, rule in favour of murder, or the judge and one assessor rule as such, that verdict will be the accepted one. The same applies for when two of them rule in favour of an acquittal.

Thank you...I had understood it all wrong.

 

[Viper]

Bottom line here I think is the following.

If successors to the black talon line of bullets were better or such, why did (or are) gun enthusiasts paying more to get BTs which the manufacturer stopped making 20 years ago?

Remember Oscar was about to become a certified gun collector.
He is quite knowledable about guns and bullets and what each does.
So are others who pay more for these "obsolete" bullets.

Clearly they know... JMO

BIB. Obviously because of the myth and mystic surrounding the supposed reason that they were discontinued and banned from continued import in to South Africa.

Here is everything you want to know in 4 minutes. My money is going to the purchase of the superior Ranger series, greatly improved over the Black Talon series!!!

http://youtu.be/p6J3CpxnXJQ

 

[Paysee]

<snipped>

I bet if one of the witnesses said they heard what sounded like an elephant, OP would have said he was playing the trumpet.

Sorry, but this is really funny :floorlaugh:

 

[Paysee]

so...OP is a victim of circumstance....and his whole defense in this mind boggling murder is that he kept his back to the bed at all times...until he entered the passageway....??mighty convenient don't cha think ?

In a nutshell... :goodpost:

 

[jimmy73]

If we disregard the neighbour witness testimony, I still think OP hasn't put forward a convincing argument as to why/how he never once confirmed verbally or visually where Reeva was. It is inexplicable, even if he is trigger happy and paranoid.

Personally, I believe there is little point debating the other details of his version (interesting though it is!) when it relies on that ridiculously improbable premise.

OP needs that premise to be accepted just to play out the 'murdered an intruder' thing. It would be hard to swallow even without neighbour witnesses who describe a much different set of events.

 

[Greater Than]

I'm really not sure I believe that story .. it's come from a friend and they might well be saying this just to back up OP's claim of what happened the night he shot Reeva, just to try and instill in people's minds that this was normal behaviour for him (i.e. paranoid about intruders). He isn't paranoid, and imo he shot Reeva purposely.

Agreed. I mentioned in the prosecution proving their case thread that I feel these previous incidents of him arming himself when he heard a noise are irrelevant. I agree with others that it's worth noting that he didn't shoot those times, but the bottom line is his actions the night he killed Reeva are being measured against those of a reasonable person in the same circumstances, not the previous UNREASONABLE actions of OP.

In other words, even if pulling a gun and going into "full combat mode" upon hearing a noise is normal behavior for him, it's not normal behavior for a reasonable person, thus it's irrelevant. MOO

 

[toevlugsoord]

Just read this:
http://ewn.co.za/2014/05/02/Expert-testimony-to-lead-Pistorius-trial

Mentions who will be coming up to testify:

"Defence advocate Barry Roux has told several state witnesses that he will call an expert witness to testify that the athlete’s screams sound like a woman when he is anxious."

"A psychologist is also expected to be called to deal with Pistorius's issues of vulnerability."

It's not a long article but it's a little clue about what is to come.
Nice to finally see some new news articles coming out!
Really looking forward the trial continuing on!!