Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #64 ~ the appeal~

[Interested Bystander]

On a more serious note, apparently the family can put in an emergency "application order" if he doesn't get the Yes on the 18th.
Point being - It may be relatively quick to process and cheap to fund, more so than we have previously assumed. However it still doesn't mean it will be granted.

Which I am sure they will do. What they won't really want is OP inside at the time of the Appeal because it would be easy for the powers that be to say keep him there, (assuming the judgement goes against him) until such time as an appeal is organised. If he were to be freed to Uncle A's protection before the appeal and it does go against him, I think he will be allowed to stay with Uncle A until such time as the appeal is heard.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm definitely not going to ask you for a link! But it seems strange that a prisoner could file an "emergency" appeal, really strange. And exactly what body would decide that appeal? I'm not following this... Did a real SA attorney say that? (No link requested or required, please.)

On your bets I would place the same. Good luck to us both!

:lol:

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi IB - I think that's a very old post of mine you're quoting from a week or two ago?.

As per later light-hearted posts on wagers ut your money in the imaginary betting pot,
£50 for me at 3:1 for no release pre-Appeal and I'll put £10 in the 10:1 for the release date reaffirmed on Sept 18th! ( Covering all bases:blushing: as I've never placed a bet on anything!)

Count me in too please. (I've gone in office sweeps for the Melbourne Cup but never placed a real bet either) That makes 3 of us now.

 

[Hatfield]

I know that many here live in "gun free" countries so I will go easy. Using statistical propaganda produced by a "gun free" political organization is one sided and does not stand up to scrutiny. The preposition that a gun owner is at a greater risk of being a victim of gun violence is one point that really makes no sense. It is really saying that at the time a gun owner is attacked by an armed criminal they usually don't have their gun with them so it was impossible for them to use it to defend themselves against the armed criminal.

Statistics are evil and easily manipulated.

I know that criminals in Australia and Great Britian are committing gun crimes right this moment, just because it is against the law does not make it stop, criminals are people that refuse to abide by the law. Gun crimes in England have actually increased several hundred percent since private gun ownership was banned. Knife crimes in Australia have skyrocketed; they obviously need stronger anti-knife ownership laws.

It is virtually impossible to own much less register a firearm if you live in Chicago, the City of Chicago has the toughest anti-gun ownership laws in America. And yet Chicago is the murder capital of America, the majority of the deaths were gunshot victims, although victims is not a word I would use to identify dead drug dealers and gang members that have murdered one another.

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents since I am an avid gun collector and enjoy various shooting sports.

I see both sides of the gun debate in the US. If any country could ever guarantee that nobody could get their hands on a gun, I would almost be in favor of laws to abolish them. The reality though is that criminals like you mentioned don't abide by the laws to begin with so it doesn't matter if laws are created because criminals break laws. They enjoy breaking laws and disobeyeing. So no matter how restricted the gun laws are, the criminals will get their hands on them and only responsible law abiding citizens are impacted.

So faced with that reality I am typically against any more regulations than what is already in place which states that convicted criminals cannot possess a firearm to begin with. They don't listen but having new laws only restricts the people that follow the laws to begin with.

The one thing I would not mind seeing implemented which I think would have a real impact is to require proof of gun safety training for any gun owner. Some states already have this in place when applying for conceal carry permits. Some states require both a written and shooting test to be passed. Common sense requirements like that do go a long way to help prevent accidents and ensure a responsible gun owner.

One last thing I have wondered about. This is just a theory I have had for some time. It goes back to the Hunter VS Gatherer theories of evolution.

Some anti-gun people are very avid about their position and I begin to understand it when they have no desire to ever possess or shoot a gun. They wonder why the gun enthusiasts care so much about wanting to have a gun. I do wonder if something in our genetics goes way back to trigger something in ourselves that makes us take one position or another.

There were times when I was fishing that everything felt so DeJa Vue. Like I had always been a fisherman in a past life or something. It was a very powerful feeling. Same held true when hunting. Things came very natural for me and I began to wonder if my heritage and past relatives were always hunters and fisherman.

Other people obviously have heritages where they may have been just businessman in the cities and never had experiences with guns or desire to ever need or use them.

So I wonder if some of this comes into play as people take a position one way or the other.
The emotions and positions are very strong on both sides.

It probably can never be proven if there is anything to this theory but I do wonder if the Hunter VS Gatherer theories about Genetics and Heritage play a small part in which way people take positions on things like this.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm definitely not going to ask you for a link! But it seems strange that a prisoner could file an "emergency" appeal, really strange. And exactly what body would decide that appeal? I'm not following this... Did a real SA attorney say that? (No link requested or required, please.)

On your bets I would place the same. Good luck to us both!

Ha - I think one was David Dadic tweet ( Carte Blanche expert/attorney/friend of Grant
- you know i would usually provide links but I am still in Euros(h)at satellite provider limbo here.

And then there was some other reference to apply to court for "emergency relief"

Anyway, so what , doesn't mean they'll get it does it. They can fritter away a few quid if they want, or put it in my betting pot at 3:1 odds.
(New circumstances/influence: Hard drive infringements? , Judge(s) on the Review panel, Defence's Heads in, opinions on strength of appeal ..all stacking up etc etc. )

 

[cottonweaver]

Which I am sure they will do. What they won't really want is OP inside at the time of the Appeal because it would be easy for the powers that be to say keep him there, (assuming the judgement goes against him) until such time as an appeal is organised. If he were to be freed to Uncle A's protection before the appeal and it does go against him, I think he will be allowed to stay with Uncle A until such time as the appeal is heard.

Yes, if he counter-appeals -to ConsCourt- a DE complimentary upgrade from SCA, and he is already out at Arnie's home ( albeit in the wardrobe of course with Aimee, plus the armed guard behind bedroom door LOL) he can apparently make an immediate bail appln. to wait out his counter appeal at home.

If, in above circumstances, he decided not to make a bail appn he would be packing his toothbrush with 48 hrs notice - so said Mannie Witz, x months ago, previously linked , can't be bothered to go find old post IB due to my connect issues.

( type in MW and DDadic plus Pistor.. - it'll come up)

 

[Hatfield]

I didn't realize the latest news about OP until I read this article. Interesting.

Preferential treatment in prison. Why am I not surprised. LOL

"Independent prison visitors, speaking to CNN, described how the double amputee paralympian had been given a new bed, a bath in his cell, gym equipment and offered the chance to prepare his own food after filing a raft of complaints to jail bosses."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-new-friendship-notorious-Czech-gangster.html

 

[cottonweaver]

There were times when I was fishing that everything felt so DeJa Vue. Like I had always been a fisherman in a past life or something. It was a very powerful feeling. Same held true when hunting. Things came very natural for me and I began to wonder if my heritage and past relatives were always hunters and fisherman.

It probably can never be proven if there is anything to this theory but I do wonder if the Hunter VS Gatherer theories about Genetics and Heritage play a small part in which way people take positions on things like this.

RSBM- appreciate your post is multi-faceted but just on that element above- maybe you need to research your family tree Hatfield? Only warning - it's very addictive, a bit like WS. I did ours about 10 years ago. You may well find there is an historical basis for your interests/skills.

 

[cottonweaver]

I didn't realize the latest news about OP until I read this article. Interesting.

Preferential treatment in prison. Why am I not surprised. LOL

"Independent prison visitors, speaking to CNN, described how the double amputee paralympian had been given a new bed, a bath in his cell, gym equipment and offered the chance to prepare his own food after filing a raft of complaints to jail bosses."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-new-friendship-notorious-Czech-gangster.html

Very good at playing the system and the disability card when he wants to........

 

[Hatfield]

RSBM- appreciate your post is multi-faceted but just on that element above- maybe you need to research your family tree Hatfield? Only warning - it's very addictive, a bit like WS. I did ours about 10 years ago. You may well find there is an historical basis for your interests/skills.

Good Idea. That would be one way to see if there is any basis to it. Thanks.

 

[Viper]

RSBM- appreciate your post is multi-faceted but just on that element above- maybe you need to research your family tree Hatfield? Only warning - it's very addictive, a bit like WS. I did ours about 10 years ago. You may well find there is an historical basis for your interests/skills.

If Hatfield has any relatives that resided in or around the Appalachian Mountains I'm pretty sure he has some clues. LOL!

 

[cottonweaver]

If Hatfield has any relatives that resided in or around the Appalachian Mountains I'm pretty sure he has some clues. LOL!

So what about Oscar's genealog. heritage then?
(But of course, he's shown he's not really that good with guns.)

 

[Viper]

On a more serious note, apparently the family can put in an emergency "application order" if he doesn't get the Yes on the 18th.
Point being - It may be relatively quick to process and cheap to fund, more so than we have previously assumed. However it still doesn't mean it will be granted.

These attorneys throw every possibility out there for the sake of the public interests consumption. But in reality I don't know who would hear an emergency appeal for parole; OP is an incarcerated convict serving out a lawful five year sentence imposed by a judge, where/what is the emergency if the Parole Board should decide not to authorize early release?

Besides, after having caught OP with contraband and having their boss (the minister) intervene the Board may just take the full four months that they are allowed (see my link below) to make a decision.

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/sideline/oscar-pistorius-parole-ruling-could-take-4-months

 

[cottonweaver]

These attorneys throw every possibility out there for the sake of the public interests consumption. But in reality I don't know who would hear an emergency appeal for parole; OP is an incarcerated convict serving out a lawful five year sentence imposed by a judge, where/what is the emergency if the Parole Board should decide not to authorize early release?

Besides, after having caught OP with contraband and having their boss (the minister) intervene the Board may just take the full four months that they are allowed (see my link below) to make a decision.

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/sideline/oscar-pistorius-parole-ruling-could-take-4-months

BIB - suits me. We don't need any more sloppy decision-making do we. They can take their time and get it right.

 

[Hatfield]

These attorneys throw every possibility out there for the sake of the public interests consumption. But in reality I don't know who would hear an emergency appeal for parole; OP is an incarcerated convict serving out a lawful five year sentence imposed by a judge, where/what is the emergency if the Parole Board should decide not to authorize early release?

Besides, after having caught OP with contraband and having their boss (the minister) intervene the Board may just take the full four months that they are allowed (see my link below) to make a decision.

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/sideline/oscar-pistorius-parole-ruling-could-take-4-months

Under normal situations a person would only be considered for early release if they were a model prisoner and didn't break any rules. If they find out from the evidence confiscated from his cell that OP had contraband then I would hope it would eliminate his potential for early release.

It will be interesting to find out what they found in his cell and then also interesting to see if they go ahead with early release proceedings.

What makes the prospect of early release so controversial in OPs case is that he got a super light sentence to begin with. So it is upsetting to think they are considering making it even lighter.

 

[cottonweaver]

Just been reading some of the transcripts recently linked:
Just in case anyone browsing is feeling sorry for OP........

Opening lines of OP's apology to the Steenkamp's on the stand

"Nel: Its starts with "I would like to start with an apology, I wake up every morning and you are the first people I think about. I pray about you every day""

Maybe it'll help him feel better now that he gets to stay inside a little longer, that that's what the Steenkamps wanted

http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_Stenographer_Updates_2?Page=0

 

[cottonweaver]

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents

Also forgot to say earlier,


:welcomeback:

 

[cottonweaver]

Another choice extract, even though i know we've heard it all before : ( not much left to say unless anyone's got any release info etc.............)

( on Tasha's incident.)

Nel: You just refuse to take responsibility for the shooting.
OP: I think we were both responsible for the gun going off.
......
"Nel: Why did you want to see Mr. Fresco's firearm?
OP: Mr. Fresco had the same gun as me, but it was made out of another metal, lighter than mine. I wanted to see if there was a groove to slot a night light onto the gun.
Nel: You have heard the evidence by Mr. Mangena, that it is impossible for a Glock to go off without your finger being on the trigger.
OP: I can't my lady, because my finger was not on the trigger my lady."

http://live-news.sky.com/Event/Oscar_Pistorius_Stenographer_Updates_2?Page=4

 

[Viper]

So what about Oscar's genealog. heritage then?
(But of course, he's shown he's not really that good with guns.)

I could not resond to your question because I've never given it any thought until you asked. I would definitely agree with heritage. Apartheid and post Apartheid SA, white superiority, racial integration, class warfare, and elitism all play a part of who OP has become. What a wild ride. Seems he started almost impoverished, then had financial assistance, tried education but found success with athletics and became relatively wealthy. Only to throw it all away because of immaturity and character faults.

I'm a huge history buff so I tend to believe that a person's life happens because of their own initiatives, completely independent of their genealogy, financial circumstances, or the environment around them; although I am inclined to believe that at some point going in to maturity those things do become increasingly more influential.

The words I would use to describe what OP has become as an adult are: childish, greedy, violent, entitled, manipulative, self centered, delusional.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This article was published on 20 August but I hadn’t seen it until today. It sheds more light on what was happening behind the scenes at the time of all the brouhaha about OP’s non-release from prison.

Defence prepared to fight minister in court

OP’s legal team are expected to fight tooth and nail to have him released from jail tomorrow.

“Brian Webber could not be reached late yesterday to confirm whether they would launch an urgent application in the high court in Pretoria to secure his release, but legal experts say there is no doubt this would end up in a legal fight”. Webber said last night he couldn’t speak as the legal team were in a meeting. The advocate who cannot be named for ethical reasons, added, however, that the court, following an urgent application, could order OP’s release pending the outcome of the review. If the minister succeeded, it would mean that OP would have to go back to prison. "

“But the senior advocate said this reasoning didn’t make sense, as the parole board in most cases decided beforehand whether an inmate could be released on a certain date. ‘It is not as if he is being released before he had served his fulltime’” .

“He added that while the Minister was empowered to refer the matter to the review board, he could not decide himself whether OP should be released. He said the department wasn’t obliged to release an inmate on parole or correctional supervision , but in the case of inmates sentenced under the same provision as OP, it was usually done.

If there are exceptional circumstances as to why an inmate should not be released after serving a sixth of his sentence, or if the board is of the view that the sentence served was too lenient, he could be refused parole,” he said.

The ANC Women’s League welcomed the decision. They remain convinced that Masipa handed down an erroneous judgment and an extremely lenient sentence, setting a bad precedent in cases involving gender-based violence, especially in instances where women die at the hands of their partners.

“We are shocked and disappointed,” an unidentified family member said. And no doubt more than a little :furious:

http://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/the-star-early-edition/20150820/281479275156627/TextView

David Dadic @DavidDadic Aug 25
Spose if Oscar brings an urgent application to get out today, we may find out sooner than the appeal whether he's taken new legal counsel.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, ah, :behindbar :tears: uke: and raying: for a :deal: